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The End Of IFE As We Have Grown To Love It?  
User currently offlineNormie999 From United Kingdom, joined May 2009, 150 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11224 times:

Apparently someone at Air Asia X has raised the possibility that the airline will choose not to have even a basic IFE system on some of the aircraft it has on order. The reason given is that

"in-flight entertainment has now moved on – people have their own i-pods, dvd players and pc’s for use on-board"

- to which I suppose you can add the fact that their long-range LCC business model could well do without the weight and expense of the system adding to its bills. The quote and backgound is from here:

http://insidetraveller.co.uk/blog/?p=794

(I can't find who said this at Air Asia X, but it doesn't seem to be Tony Fernandes.)

Putting aside Air Asia X's particular LCC niche, do you not think there is some truth to this? A growing number of people (not just those under 25) I'm sure would prefer listening to their own MP3 player rather than what the system provides, or watching their own DVD selection for that matter. Also I know that on more than one occasion I would have much preferred to forgo the "state-of-the-art" IFE system (Jet Airways coming to mind) rather than the space taken up at feet level by a large control box under the seat in front of me.

Where next for IFE?

Apologies if this subject has already been raised - I did have a look but couldn't find anything.

53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSvenvdM From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11214 times:

There is some truth to that. Problem still is that most carriers don't provide electrical sockets in Economy Class.

User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17671 posts, RR: 46
Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11183 times:



Quoting Normie999 (Thread starter):
"in-flight entertainment has now moved on – people have their own i-pods, dvd players and pc’s for use on-board"

I think that's 100% true, plus if you have IFE, people don't pay a premium for it, ever. And when you charge for it, you're lucky to get a third of the passengers paying, which doesn't cover the cost of the IFE. Give passengers a plug and let them bring their own entertainment.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3594 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11097 times:

Most LCCs don't have any IFE, so I don't think this is a surprising move by Air Asia X. They tried IFE in their LCC model and find it is not cost effective.

The non-LCC carriers seem to be going the other way. DL and other major carriers are putting AVOD on their aircraft (even in economy class on domestic aircraft).

I personally don't want to carry a bunch of DVDs around on my trips and I don't want to listen to ipod music for 14 hours straight on a regular basis, but I fly more than most people.


User currently offlineFlyKev From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2006, 1385 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11043 times:
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I'm going to have to disagree with the above.
Many airlines it seems are spending millions in upgrading their entertainment offerings ie.NZ, EK, CO etc ; and whilst for the low cost options (Air Asia X etc.) its a viable option to not have any form of IFE, for mainstream airlines it simply isn't.
A good example for me was my last flight to SFO with VS. I had the choice of my iPhone, or the V:Port system.

The V:Port system offered me the choice of 50+ movies on a decent sized screen, versus the 3 or 4 I had crammed onto my iPhone (I like to have backups incase the IFE doesn't work) with its small sized screen and no comfortable way of propping it up.

Additionally, during periods of turbulance, or meal service the IFE continues to work - whearas if your watching a movie on your netbook; wheres the space for both meal tray and netbook?
On short hops to Europe and such for me, yes my iPhone is perfect; but for a longer trip I'd rather have to option of a larger screen, a large choice of movies and no worries about my battery running out. Whilst its great to offer a plug socket, theres no guarantee that someones plug will fit, not to mention the possible dangers of unsafe, uncertifed batteries charging in a cabin at FL350.

Kev.



The white zone is for immediate loading and unloading of passengers only
User currently offline764 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 624 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11035 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
I think that's 100% true, plus if you have IFE, people don't pay a premium for it, ever. And when you charge for it, you're lucky to get a third of the passengers paying, which doesn't cover the cost of the IFE. Give passengers a plug and let them bring their own entertainment.

Hmmm.... actually I have in the past repeatedly chosen (occasionally more expensive) airlines that had better IFE, so at least this weird frequent flier does pay a premium for it.

That being said, I would agree that many people carry on their own entertainment, so IFE may become a little obsolete, BUT:

- What if some new regulation bans devices such as laptops from being used at certain times or potentially at all? Considering the DHS response to past security risks, this is entirely possibly.

- Are passengers allowed to use decent GPS receivers and/or could the aircraft provide such data through a USB system? The one thing I enjoy most about IFE is being able to tell exactly where I am, what the estimated remaining flying time is, etc. Give me that on my notebook and I'll be fint.

- Most importantly: With seats being as tight as they are, I would currently rather use the IFE than have to balance a notebook on my lap and/or fold down the table restricting my leg movement even more.

Overall, I hope that IFE will stay around. And hey, IFE doesn't have to cost the airline anything. Have you flown Delta recently? Their entertainment program has gotten quite "ad infested" already. So IFE can apparently be used for profit generation. Maybe this cost center is actually a profit center? Just a thought.


User currently offlineAmmunition From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2002, 1065 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10944 times:

I agree with Air Asia and would myself much rather a plug socket or a usb point to charge my ipod/mp3, maybe even wirelessly streamed media onboard.


Saint Augustine- 'The world is a book and those who do not travel, read only 1 page'
User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10931 times:

An argument could be made for IFE being unnecessary and not worth the price of admission, but WiFi has to be a must and all the more so today. I like WN's decision to go with Row44 and use sat based comms versus ground based tower ops; if Row44 were publically traded on the market, they would be one to invest in.

User currently offlineImag From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2007, 197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 10791 times:

It's an interesting point and has got some weight behind it. In my experience of flying there doesn't seem to be a lot of people with laptops/iPhones/portable DVD's. The PTV seems to win most of the time. As for me, I prefer to fly an airline with PTV's. I don't have an iPhone and would rather not carry my laptop on holiday just to have something to watch on the plane.

Nothing beats re-runs of House over the Atlantic.


User currently offlineVasu From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 3934 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 10582 times:



Quoting 764 (Reply 5):
- Are passengers allowed to use decent GPS receivers and/or could the aircraft provide such data through a USB system? The one thing I enjoy most about IFE is being able to tell exactly where I am, what the estimated remaining flying time is, etc. Give me that on my notebook and I'll be fint.

Interesting point - I wonder if anyone can elaborate on it? It would be the first "issue" I can think of... though sadly I doubt 90% of pax would care if it wasn't there  


User currently offlineSuperDash From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 574 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 10448 times:

I know people on this board love IFE/AVOD. But I have to say, I have never booked a flight because of what the plane has on it. It's purely about fare and schedule. On flights that have had IFE or Wifi, I have yet buy the product. I have a computer and an iPod and I don't mind a good book. That's my way of flying. Even if United charged for Channel 9, I would gladly go without.

I think that Wifi makes good sense, but it has limits and apparently it has a real big drop off in customers paying for it as the price goes from free to north of free. IFE makes more sense on long haul planes, but for short hauls why carry the equipment around? Just my  twocents 


User currently offlineSATexan From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10289 times:



Quoting Normie999 (Thread starter):
Where next for IFE?

In my opinion, the days of IFE are clearly inching towards an end atleast in the USA and most developed countries. The hand held personal entertainment system will become so advanced (iPad for instance) in the next decade that the airline IFEs will become an obsolete concept. Thats why it is unwise for any airline to invest on PTVs at this time. The priority should be investing on Wi-fi and having power outlets under every seat.


User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7787 posts, RR: 16
Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10179 times:



Quoting SATexan (Reply 11):
In my opinion, the days of IFE are clearly inching towards an end atleast in the USA and most developed countries. The hand held personal entertainment system will become so advanced (iPad for instance) in the next decade that the airline IFEs will become an obsolete concept. Thats why it is unwise for any airline to invest on PTVs at this time. The priority should be investing on Wi-fi and having power outlets under every seat.

In a decades time maybe, but in the meantime a good AVOD IFE system is a pretty good way to pass the time on a long flight. I don't have to carry along a laptop or portable DVD player or watch stuff on a tiny iPod screen. As it stands now AVOD systems seem to offer a good variety of programming choices that most anybody could want.



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3594 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9969 times:

Quoting SATexan (Reply 11):
In my opinion, the days of IFE are clearly inching towards an end atleast in the USA and most developed countries. The hand held personal entertainment system will become so advanced (iPad for instance) in the next decade that the airline IFEs will become an obsolete concept. Thats why it is unwise for any airline to invest on PTVs at this time. The priority should be investing on Wi-fi and having power outlets under every seat.

????

In the USA, AVOD has been rapidly expanding in the past few years. B6 kicked it off a few years ago on the domestic front. DL followed with Song. VX promotes it. In the last year, DL has announced expansion of AVOD to all mainline domestic aircraft except for the MDs, CO has announced AVOD installation of a new domestic AVOD system. I'm not sure about UA or US.

Where is this inching to an end you are talking about?

What USA airline has removed AVOD from it's planes?

You might believe the view you propounded, but it is your personal opinion and not even close to being factually sound.


User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2887 posts, RR: 31
Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9946 times:

Air Asia X is a LOW COST AIRLINE. As such, I would expect that frills such as free food and entertainment are not available. If they offer significantly lower fares, why should people expect anything more than a plain old seat and access to a bathroom?


Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineM11Stephen From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9909 times:

I'd prefer to have a wifi and power outlet vs. on demand IFE. It seems like everyone these days has either a Blackberry, iPod, Netbook, iPhone, laptop, etc. that can pick up WIFI. I doubt IFE will be removed from long haul planes on full service carriers but its really unnecessary to add it to domestic aircraft and on LCC carriers.


My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19954 posts, RR: 59
Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 9815 times:

I think it depends.

If there is WiFI and power, then it's true; IFE may become unnecessary, especially in an age of iPods and tablets.

Without power for those devices, that's not a good solution for flights >3 hrs, which is long as most laptops can go.


User currently offlineMacsog6 From Singapore, joined Jan 2010, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 9800 times:
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IFE, as it exists today, is past the use by date. It has become little more than a rehash of old TV sitcoms and B movies, both complete with commercials. On my recent trips from the US to Australia, Japan, and Europe, I brought along my laptop (which I need to carry along for work) and a handful of DVD's along with a premium set of headphones. I plugged into the power outlet, and watched what I wanted to see without having to watch any of the other filler, wait while the flight attendant re-booted the system two or three times, and other such nuisances.

When I wanted to sleep, I plugged the smae headphones into my iPod (but could have still used my laptop instead) and listened while I slept to soothing music that did not repeat every few hours.

IFE needs be updated massively and soon or it too will go the way of the smoking sections.



Sixty Plus Years of Flying! "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." - Saint Ex
User currently offlineflytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 9605 times:

Re: power outlets under every seat.
Just curious:
Would it pose a safety hazard with kids poking around, and/or liquids (spilled water/soft drinks) possibly seeping into the outlets?

I think the bare minimum IFE that should be put in, that likely isn't too costly is a source of streaming commercial free music, whether its from a CD Muzak source (but with a number of stations), WiFi Pandora or satellite radio.

[Edited 2010-02-04 21:32:53]

User currently offlineweb500sjc From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 749 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 9562 times:
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Sorry but IFE is a big chioce in my chioce, when I have one, it used to be B6 was my airline of chioce, but now o can easily go with DL. the IFE makes those trans-cons much more barable, espesially when it is live TV, except on red-eyes. I can't see the end of IFE unless every seat has a usable plug, and free wifi, but that's not comming anytime soon as the trend in airlines is to charge for anything that isn't bolted to the floor.


Boiler Up!
User currently offlinespacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3630 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 9519 times:

I think IFE might have to change but it's not going to disappear. I always bring an iPod and a laptop with me on the plane but I still use the IFE system, for:

a) either live or newly-recorded TV, especially news
b) the map display and external camera views (especially when they close all the shades and I'm in the middle)
c) music that I don't have and would never get a chance to hear otherwise, especially foreign music
d) movies that I would have never thought to buy or rent

In the future, I think live TV is going to be the major selling point of IFE systems. I can't believe more airlines don't already have it.

I do think that any system that isn't on-demand and that doesn't offer 40 movies or more is kind of a waste. Once you get to that point, there's going to be something that pretty much everybody on the plane would want to watch and didn't bring with them.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2890 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 9510 times:

Quoting Normie999 (Thread starter):
do you not think there is some truth to this?

Yes I think there is some truth to it, especially when it come down to music.

And alot of people travel with laptops nowadays so they can watch movies they already downloaded.

But I do love having a screen to fiddle with, really like the new style touch screens, on some airlines, very swanky !!



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineSASD209 From British Indian Ocean Territory, joined Oct 2007, 642 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 9479 times:

Quoting SuperDash (Reply 10):
I know people on this board love IFE/AVOD. But I have to say, I have never booked a flight because of what the plane has on it. It's purely about fare and schedule. On flights that have had IFE or Wifi, I have yet buy the product. I have a computer and an iPod and I don't mind a good book. That's my way of flying. Even if United charged for Channel 9, I would gladly go without.

I think that Wifi makes good sense, but it has limits and apparently it has a real big drop off in customers paying for it as the price goes from free to north of free. IFE makes more sense on long haul planes, but for short hauls why carry the equipment around? Just my twocents

I could not agree more. When in the States, I fly AirTran when possible and Blue1 at home. I always bring my iPod and my netbook and plan to amuse myself whilst flying. I no longer bother to see what the IFE is on transAtlantic flights as I bring my own (with a paperback as a backup lol). In this day and age, I'd rather an airline invest in a standard AC outlet + USB outlet for every seat than an IFE system.....I also do not partake, esp when it is available for a fee. Of course I'd like WiFi on my flights, but I'm certainly not willing to pay for it. Perhaps they can substitute the IFE for free WiFi availability? I don't know what the economics would be for the airline, but I'd much rather be persuaded with free WiFi than free IFE. Just my opinion.

SASD209


User currently offlineSATexan From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 9430 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 13):
You might believe the view you propounded, but it is your personal opinion

As I clearly stated, it is my opinion. I also stated as an opinion that airlines would be unwise to make such an investment.
I should clarify that my comments were directed at the IFE in domestic and medium haul flights. If the airlines try to catch up with every hand held entertainment device they will only be adding extra hardware that could affect the flight economics.

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 13):
B6 kicked it off a few years ago on the domestic front. DL followed with Song. VX promotes it

B6 and VX had to offer these simply to distinguish themselves from the legacy carriers that did not offer them. Else what would be the incentive to fly them ?

Quoting Macsog6 (Reply 17):
IFE needs be updated massively

Exactly!

and dont forget the maintanence. How many times have we not seen a button on our IFE remote not work?

Further, most parents flying with small children will have some kind of books, gameboys or nintendo ds device that the children will engage in. The kids will be very familiar with their personal entertainment devices as opposed to navigating the IFE system.

Furthermore, with the limited seat pitch in Y, it is often hard to manoevre your remote and headsets of the IFE. Compared to this your handheld devices are way easier to handle in domestic Y. You can stow them in the seat back pocket in front of you or on the tray table.

Hence I agree with the quote from the Air Asia exec:

Quoting Normie999 (Thread starter):
"in-flight entertainment has now moved on people have their own i-pods, dvd players and pcs for use on-board"

Aww..he could have shown some love to books and Kindle


User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3626 posts, RR: 27
Reply 24, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7644 times:
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what ever happened to just bringing a book? I never liked IFE . This 'need' for some form of elecrtic entertainment is electronics industry driven... I've sat in rows where I-Pods were turned up so loud you could hear them 2 seats away... and videos can be seen at an angle are distracting ... I applaud this move... Bring a book it's quiet, needs no special wiring, and is not distracting to others.

25 brilondon : This is a good system except that the selection of movies is limited to 30 or 40 movies of which about two or three hold any entertainment value. In
26 web500sjc : the problem with substituting wifi in for AVOD is that then there needs to be a universal power port for every seat, after 3 hours nothing using wifi
27 FlyDeltaJets87 : If the IFE is there and it's free, I'll use it. If it's not, well, it's never been a selling point to me. My favorite feature is often the moving map
28 maddog888 : mine too, it really makes a case for IFE - along with the radio chatter and external camera views ( although sadly I have never been on a flight with
29 Post contains images BeechNut : I've been traveling long enough to remember when IFE meant a good book and eyeing the cute stewardess  Beechnut
30 web500sjc : yes but now the air stewarseses in the US ain't that young, somthing about unions.
31 brilondon : Officially it is up to the Captain whether to use it or not and they usually have it on. It does get tuned on only after about twenty minutes into th
32 Post contains images FlyDeltaJets87 : Supposedly it was only on an international flights, because I flew out to California from Florida not too long after and we had the moving map. Besid
33 DLPMMM : If you would read the post I was replying to: SATexan specifically refered to the USA and developed countries. In an earlier post I responded to the
34 Viscount724 : A book or magazine is enough for me to pass the time. IFE has never been a priority and I would gladly do without it. It would also free up a lot of
35 Post contains links SATexan : Just in the last month I have flown on AA, CO and US. None of them had AVOD or PTVs or Live TV in Economy. AA isnt even putting PTVs in the Economy c
36 cobra27 : Mybe AirAisa doesn't want those expensive IFes that company offers for billions of dollars. Its like buying a car which has radio installed in factory
37 DLPMMM : [quote=SATexan,reply=35]Just in the last month I have flown on AA, CO and US. None of them had AVOD or PTVs or Live TV in Economy. AA isnt even puttin
38 skyone : After reading all posts, it comes to my mind the MEX-MAD route. Having AM with its 777 and PTV/AVOD in Y vs. IB with the A340 without PTV/AVOD, and no
39 SASD209 : this is how I book my flights.... Agreed. Also agreed. As i can bring my own entertainment aboard, I also bring my own food/drink aboard. i certainly
40 Post contains links normie999 : Crankyflier comments on Southwest installing wifi fleetwide here http://crankyflier.com/2010/02/04/so...lling-wireless-internet-fleetwide/ Again the L
41 SATexan : Kingfisher also offers full fledged meal service, hot towels, great crew and free checked bags in addition to AVOD in medium haul flights. They maint
42 DeltaRules : My laptop with DVD player's battery endurance is hideous, with about an hour and a half worth of battery life if I'm lucky and if it starts up quickly
43 spacecadet : Can I just say that in 2005, I flew ANA from NRT-JFK, and somehow we ended up getting substituted a short-haul 747 for the regular 747's they use on t
44 DLPMMM : If you would look at your own link above you would see that Kingfisher does not have AVOD or even IFE on all of their planes, indeed not even on all
45 VonRichtofen : Having a laptop, or even a netbook in front of your face in economy is annoying. Then packing it up when meal time comes is a pain in the ass. The mod
46 SATexan : Hmm... You are talking about Kingfisher Red. Kingfisher Red is Kingfisher's LCC (formerly Air Deccan)on domestic routes.
47 AAairplane : My opinion is: for flights of 2 to 4 or 5 hours, why do you need to go all out or nothing? Put a view overhead screens in and leave the armrest radio
48 Post contains images jbernie : The nice thing about the IFE options is that they normally have some movies or albums that I would not otherwise buy/rent to watch and can check them
49 Post contains links normie999 : MICEBTN reports that Air Asia X " is to remove the in-flight entertainment systems from seat backs. Instead, portable units will be offered to passeng
50 Post contains links LHR380 : http://www.businesstraveller.com/new...-air-asiax-seating-for-london-kl-r Here is where I heard about Air Asia X's new seats and IFE. I don't see on l
51 LondonCity : In these "green" times when airlines are saving weight (and thus fuel) in various guises, I am surprised that IFE hasn't come under the spotlight bef
52 mandala499 : As much as one likes all the latest gizmos on the IFE, there is a significant difference in its usefulness for the airline when you have to pay extra
53 sydaircargo : i woul dnot pay extra for IFE. flying FRA-PVG in March on MU, they only have overhead monitors in Eco on there A332. will be the most boring longhaul
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