Moderators From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 459 posts, RR: 0 Posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 55462 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Please use this thread to discuss the maiden flight of the Boeing 747-8 which is likely to occur on 2/8/2010.
The following is a press release emailed from Boeing today:
The Boeing Company is excited to announce the first flight of another new Boeing aircraft, the 747-8 Freighter. The first flight window for this new airplane is planned to open on February 8. This date is dependent on several factors, including final internal reviews, taxi test and receiving the final experimental ticket from the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration. The first flight of the 747-8 will take place from Paine Field in Everett, Washington, USA.
We'd like to invite you to be a part of this historic event by visiting any of our 747-8 First Flight websites:
- www.boeing.com
- www.newairplane.com
Just look for a 747-8 First Flight banner for the most up-to-date information and timing on the first flight.
You can also enjoy LIVE take-off and landing of the 747-8 Freighter by visiting our exclusive website 24 hours before the flight. Bookmark this site now for easy access: http://747-8firstflight.com
Check back often for up-to-the-minute news and information. A compilation video of the highlights of the complete event will also be posted the day after first flight and will include the pilot walk out, taxi, take-off, landing, and post-flight press conference. The first flight site also features other great information about the airplane, the test program and our customers.
As always, please know that first flights are dynamic in nature and issues such as poor weather may affect timing. We hope you will join us for the momentous first flight of the new Boeing 747-8 Freighter.
Sincerely,
World Design Team
Boeing Commercial Airplanes
Please use moderators@airliners.net to contact us.
KPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2526 posts, RR: 3 Reply 1, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 55530 times:
Really looking foward to this!
Good luck Boeing!
View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
N328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6222 posts, RR: 3 Reply 2, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 55376 times:
It is unfortunate that this is overshadowed by the recent revelation that, with the current order book, the 747-8 program is $2 billion in the red.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
justloveplanes From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 872 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 55071 times:
Quoting N328KF (Reply 2): It is unfortunate that this is overshadowed by the recent revelation that, with the current order book, the 747-8 program is $2 billion in the red.
So they need about 40 more frames...piece of cake...
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26723 posts, RR: 83 Reply 4, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 55072 times:
Well Boeing did say with around 370 total orders they would make a profit, so they're a third of the way there...
GBan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 54448 times:
Quoting N328KF (Reply 2): It is unfortunate that this is overshadowed by the recent revelation that, with the current order book, the 747-8 program is $2 billion in the red.
Quoting justloveplanes (Reply 3): So they need about 40 more frames...piece of cake...
50 Million profit per frame sounds a bit high to me.
Quoting Stitch (Reply 4): Well Boeing did say with around 370 total orders they would make a profit, so they're a third of the way there...
While this number points to a lower profit per frame than I'd had expected. But Boeing should know.
Frigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1199 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 53957 times:
[
Quoting GBan (Reply 6): Quoting N328KF (Reply 2):
It is unfortunate that this is overshadowed by the recent revelation that, with the current order book, the 747-8 program is $2 billion in the red.
Quoting justloveplanes (Reply 3):
So they need about 40 more frames...piece of cake...
50 Million profit per frame sounds a bit high to me.
Quoting Stitch (Reply 4):
Well Boeing did say with around 370 total orders they would make a profit, so they're a third of the way there...
While this number points to a lower profit per frame than I'd had expected. But Boeing should know.
8 million profit per plane seems rather on the low side OTOH. But, as you say, Boeing should know...
Still, with 370 orders the 747-8 program isn't that far off from the A380 in terms of making number of orders needed to make a profit. Wasn't that 450-500 copies sold for the A380 to break even? And according to rumours, Airbus matched Boeings price for the 748i with their A380 offer, so I can't believe the profit margin for the A380 is that much higher than for the 748. Something doesn't add up here, IMHO. Development of the A380 must have cost 3-4 times as much as the 747-8 program. But maybe someone here with more knowledge about the subject can explain this to me?ÃÂ
Still, returning to the subject: as a real 747 fan, I'm absolutely delighted to finally see the -8 in the air soon. I guess taxi tests will take place today?
justloveplanes From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 872 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 53679 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 4): Well Boeing did say with around 370 total orders they would make a profit, so they're a third of the way there...
"No problem with profitability of 747-8 family if achieves half of âÂÂ740â perceived market"
No problem to me implies a healthy return, which is what we would expect for a now $4 billion dollar program or about 1/2 of a major program, and that includes this year's write down. So break even is probably less than that by some factor, 370 is probably an acceptable profit goal from the program outset and matches their original forecasts for VLA.
I took the $50 million number from other discussions here on A-net, which included the return over the life of the airplane, not just the list price of the frame. Still a mystery as to what this actually is. VLA's should have more margin than $8million per frame, that's less that 4% and what someone makes on commodities like methanol. Doubt it's that low.
pnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2046 posts, RR: 12 Reply 9, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 53552 times:
Also don't forget that Randy Tinseth has said that pending outcomes of the test program that the price of the 747 might be increased. To make that statement they must be pretty confident in both performance and future orders. Maybe first flight will have the rumoured order announced since it appears it wasn't at Singapore.
justloveplanes From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 872 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 53528 times:
Well, some more boring financial mystery information from Forbes... see 5 year averages at the bottom...
Return on Equity 38.5%
Return on Assets 4.8%
Return on Invested Capital 17.2%
Gross Profit Margin 20.2%
Pre-Tax Profit Margin 6.1%
Post-Tax Profit Margin 4.5%
Net Profit Margin (Total Operations) 4.1%
R&D as a % of Sales 5.1%
SG&A as a % of Sales 6.3%
Debt/Equity Ratio 1.24
Total Debt/Equity Ratio 1.39
Key figures are the overall profit margins, I am guessing this is mostly for aircraft. Overall, not bad, 40% return on equity (stock)... pretty good and it does it at a 6% Pre-Tax profit number, Lower than what I would think. The Gross profit is about 20%, but you add in Overhead (SGA) and R&D and you get down to 6.1% + 2.5% which I would take to be interests costs.
assuming a $200 million dollar price (healthy discount) that's 12 million before taxes using pre-tax, which is what one would use as that's the number invested costs are debited against. So using this data, 333 aircraft is what is needed to break even.
FYI, I think these average numbers are wrong somehow, these numbers are mostly driven by the 737 market, so break even is probably quite a bit less for the bigger birds. Would be interested in hearing the opinion of someone that really knows this stuff instead of a hacker like me!
avi From Israel, joined Sep 2001, 922 posts, RR: 6 Reply 11, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 53359 times:
I really hope for Boeing that they will delay the flight by 1 day. If they waited so long, another day would not kill them (or the customers).
Flying on Feb 9th 2010 will mean that the first flight of the B747-8 will be exactly on the 41st anniversary of the very first B747 flight in 1969.
It means something.
manfredj From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1132 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 52925 times:
Quoting N328KF (Reply 2): It is unfortunate that this is overshadowed by the recent revelation that, with the current order book, the 747-8 program is $2 billion in the red.
Every program starts off in the red, the 747 just happens to be in a slightly BETTER position. This type will be around for many years as it's the only VLA freighter available to airlines. Profits should come rather quickly.
The bad news you wish to solicit is actually good news.
I hope from this point forward this remains a first flight thread. I can't wait to see the nose lift off the ground so I can watch the next generation 747 solidify its place in aviation history. A graceful bird she is.
EASTERN747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 386 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 52614 times:
This may have been answered a long time ago. If it has, I'm sorry. Other than crew rest, what will the space behind the cockpit be used for. The "hump"?
CCA From Hong Kong, joined Oct 2002, 708 posts, RR: 14 Reply 14, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 52032 times:
Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 13): This may have been answered a long time ago. If it has, I'm sorry. Other than crew rest, what will the space behind the cockpit be used for. The "hump"?
No change, crew rest and to PX company staff, animal handlers etc.
Jambrain From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2008, 235 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 50492 times:
Quoting justloveplanes (Reply 10): Key figures are the overall profit margins, I am guessing this is mostly for aircraft. Overall, not bad, 40% return on equity (stock)... pretty good and it does it at a 6% Pre-Tax profit number, Lower than what I would think. The Gross profit is about 20%, but you add in Overhead (SGA) and R&D and you get down to 6.1% + 2.5% which I would take to be interests costs.
You are ignoring the aftermarket sales which traditionally in this area are much higher %margin than new product, you can't assume OE sales on products that are not mature are at a +ve margin at all from B's books.
Of course the 748i sales will generate these high margin aftermarket revenue eventually but it can be many years down the line.
15.1%.....Average 4 year margin on OE
22.2%.....Average 4 year margin on services
................................2009...2008...2007.......2006
Sales of products....57,032...50,180....14,934..9,787
Sales of services....11,249...10,729....3,003....2,877
Cost of products .....-47,639 .-41,662..-12,207.-8,926
Cost of services ......-8,726 .-8,467....-2,258..-2,288
..............................16.5%..17.0%.....18.3%..8.8%
..............................22.4%..21.1%.....24.8%..20.5%
MD80Nut From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 871 posts, RR: 10 Reply 16, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 50434 times:
A new 747 on the horizon, how sweet is that? Thanks to the Moderators for the heads up, I can't wait to see it in the air!
N328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6222 posts, RR: 3 Reply 17, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 50265 times:
Quoting manfredj (Reply 12): Every program starts off in the red, the 747 just happens to be in a slightly BETTER position. This type will be around for many years as it's the only VLA freighter available to airlines. Profits should come rather quickly.
The point is that the program was supposed to be in a substantially better position by now.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
MarcW10 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2010, 16 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 48265 times:
Quoting avi (Reply 11): I really hope for Boeing that they will delay the flight by 1 day. If they waited so long, another day would not kill them (or the customers).
lol, the 9th is my birthday so I'm pulling for this as well. Would be an awesome present for me seeing this one fly!
747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 1789 posts, RR: 11 Reply 21, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 48092 times:
Quoting avi (Reply 11): I really hope for Boeing that they will delay the flight by 1 day. If they waited so long, another day would not kill them (or the customers).
I fully agree, the opportunity envelope opens at 8 February, so the 9th will be the perfect day, a historical day for the "Queen of the Sky".
And for all the posters on this thread about the additional write-off's Boeing had to make on this project, I would ask the following question :
What part of these losses actually can be contributed to the 747-8..........?
A very largest part is caused by the engineering drain from the 747-8 to the 787.......that caused almost one year 747-8 program delay.
So, IMO a large part of these extra costs can be added to the 787 program....and subtracted again from the 747-8.
But I know that is only for the records, it has to be payed from the same (Boeing) pocket.
I am looking forward to see some real wingflex next week on this beautifull looking, four engined, natural stable aircraft.
A real "pilots dream" aircraft.
United787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2346 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 47981 times:
Back on topic, if the 748 is going to be flying on Monday, shouldn't we be hearing about some taxi tests and RTO tests? Or have I missed all that??
747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 1789 posts, RR: 11 Reply 23, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 47843 times:
Quoting United787 (Reply 22): shouldn't we be hearing about some taxi tests and RTO tests? Or have I missed all that??
The taxi test should have started today. In several publications it was mentioned that this weekend the (high speed) taxi tests would be performed. RTO tests were not mentioned.
Wouldn't the RTO test be mandatory BEFORE first flight?
" The European consumer would crawl naked over broken glass to get low fares." Michael O'Leary
25 LTBEWR: What are the significant differences in structure, design, engineering and so on between the 747-8 and the -400 series? It seems this has mainly been
26 brilondon: I would think that it would mean something to the people that was employed at Boeing as well. But they have made their decision I guess. They may hav
27 747classic: Here you can find all the info : http://www.newairplane.com/747/
28 CCA: Taxi test are to begin Saturday and continue on Sunday which will include lifting of the nose briefly and also a RTO check, assuming all goes well it
29 747classic: Just confirmed, taxi tests are starting today, see : http://blog.seattlepi.com/airlinereporter/archives/193630.asp
30 Stitch: As with the 787, they will perform an RTO at the TOW they plan to lift off on, but the full MTOW / worn brakes RTO won't be performed until later in
31 tdscanuck: New wing (reloft, similar structure), new engines, upgraded more-777-like flight deck, FBW ailerons, new high lift system. Given that there are about
32 747classic: According Twitter #7478TT taxi tests have started on this moment. The first 747-8F is moving on his own power with call sign "Boeing 501 Experimental
33 CCA: Pics here of first taxi. http://blog.seattlepi.com/aerospace/archives/193645.asp
35 NYC777: Boeing has put out a press release saying that the 747-8 has completed all taxi tests and is ready for first flight. First flight should take place on
36 Laddie: So the bit of smoke (burning rubber from locked up tire or tires?) at the end of the last taxi test was nothing to worry about, I gather?
37 747classic: Taxi tests completed : With Chief Pilot Mark Feuerstein at the controls, the airplane reached a top seed of approximately 90 knots (103.5 mph, 166.6 k
38 SeJoWa: I've tried to get a sense of the slightly increased size of this RBFM (Really Big Flying Machine) from the pics, but it's only seeing her moving that
39 MadameConcorde: I find the 787-8 way prettier than the 748 up in the air and on the ground. She is so elegant and sleek! I will be most interested to
40 CCA: Spotted a modification to the -8, when reverse thrust is selected the I/B and Mid span leading edge flaps retract like on the 744, however the first s
41 originalblis: did they do a nose up test? Is it standard to do one before the first flight?
42 Nomadd22: Not sure if I'd want to be onboard for the stall test for this beast. I've practiced those in way smaller aircraft and could never get rid of that gut
43 DUALRATED: It may have already been stated and if so , I aplogize. I was wondering why no winglets like on the 400?
44 LTU932: Because the raked wingtips on the -8 are supposed to do the job that winglets do on the -400.
45 tdscanuck: I'm not sure that it's standard...that's really a nose gear test and I don't think they changed the gear much. Tom.
46 WestWing: The A.Net photo shows the airframe RC501 having been assigned a customer code KZ (Nippon Cargo Airlines). I think this is incorrect. Shouldn't the RC5
47 Stitch: NCA and Cargolux ordered on the same day, so they had a 50% chance to get it right.
48 WestWing: When Boeing applied for the N747EX registration, Boeing filed with the FAA that the aircraft is a 747-8R7F. I hope we can agree that Boeing have a bet
49 AA737-823: I saw that, and it confused me: whatever happened to -x81? As in, 747-281F? 747-481F?
50 WestWing: The customer code 81 is for ANA (All Nippon Airways) while KZ is NCA (Nippon Cargo Airlines). The NCA livery looks similar to ANA because ANA were in
51 747classic: To be (hopefully) exactly correct, the data for the three test 747-8F aircraft : 1th built 747-8F : 747-8R7F/SCD, serial number 35808, LN 1420, RC501,
52 keesje: It will also be the first GE GENX powered flight.
53 Dan23: ....and I doubt that it would have been originally expected that the GEnx-2B would beat the GEnx-1B to the air on its respective aircraft.
54 Aesma: With the short hump and the stretch, you really can imagine what it would like with the cockpit on the main deck and no hump.
55 BA84: Flight plan filed: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE501 BA84
56 NRA-3B: Boe 501 has filed for 10:10AM PST http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE501 Cheers Bob
57 747classic: The 747-8 Freighter First Flight webcast ( http://747-8firstflight.com ) is displaying already two interesting video's. On the video "747-8 freighter
58 NRA-3B: Ahhh , beat me by 8 seconds........ Cheers anyway, Bob
59 KL911: So the flightnumber is BOE501? Funny since AIB501 is on it's way to BOS as we speak, first A388 there. Well, better then flight 404 I guess...
61 BlatantEcho: The videos of the 748 assembly are hilarious: They show like 3 people working....really slowly....to install one rivet. Or one guy putting a clip on s
62 NRA-3B: If you are 1 hour ahead of GMT, 7:10 PM is correct, I believe. Cheers, Bob
63 NA: ??? I see a lot of busy people. Working, walking, not just standing around. Lots more action than of the ghostly average German Autobahn construction
64 EA772LR: Is it me, or do the GEnx-2Bs look massive on the 747? I guess we're so used to seeing a 747 with 'relatively' small JT9/PW4000/CF6/RB211s that the ext
65 Woof: Apologies as I'm sure this has been asked before, but a search revealed no results. Why does the 748-F not have winglets (as indeed most 747F derivati
66 dvincent: It uses raked wingtips a la 787 instead of blended winglets.
68 trigged: Raked wingtips. The winglets serve the same function but the wings on the 748 were designed with the raked wingtips so the winglets are redundant.
69 Woof: Thanks very much. I guess I should have realised. (Still leaves me wondering why many 744Fs don't have them, but that's not relevant to this thread).
70 Tugger: It's not just you, I've been impressed with just how big those holes look hanging off the 74's wings. I am trying to decide if the look "right" and p
71 MadameConcorde: The first flight web page has gone live. They are now showing some videos of the assembly. I hope the flight will happen soon! htt
72 WestWing: The 744Fs do have winglets. In the -400 series, only the 744 domestic (passenger) short-haul don't have winglets. (Boeing also removed the winglets f
73 Aesma: I see nothing live on this website, it has not changed in hours.
74 WestWing: Boeing webcast site says it will go live five minutes before the event. I assume that means 17:55 UTC .
75 Glom: Weather is looking terrible. Mist. Overcast at 400ft. At least Endeavour got off the ground though. I guess we can't have too much excitement for one
76 midcon385: Live webcast beginning now. I have it on. http://747-8firstflight.com/ Tim
77 acabgd: The stream has just gone live at this moment!
84 Revelation: Are any of the local TV helos (KIRO, etc) going to be covering 747-8 FF? Last time these helos had better shots than did the Boeing webcast?
85 MD80fanatic: They fly a totally new frame the first time in a rain shower (787), whilst a clear day, no wind, and 47F temps draws a delay with a mostly long establ
86 LimaNiner: At http://www.747-8firstflight.com/ ?? I only see the static content (2 videos, virtual post card, and link to Flight Aware...), and I've reloaded th
87 MD80fanatic: Ahh, never mind previous outburst. I will wait patiently. (I was thinking 24+ hour delay)
88 MadameConcorde: What is the direct link to the live cast? I keep getting repeats of the assembly video.
89 Stitch: KIRO (Channel 7) might, since they have "The Price is Right" on. KING (Channel 5) is still showing NBC's Today Show through 11, so they might not. KI
90 brons2: Delayed due to weather? I don't see anything on the radar.
91 AndrewUber: We have low ceilings here, hopefully it will clear up soon. Can't wait to see her fly!
93 MD80fanatic: I received a popup on that page asking me to "click to start webcast". Perhaps your popup was blocked (leaving you on the original page with the vide
94 MadameConcorde: How do you get the live feed from Paine field? I can't seem to get anything other than the videos even by reloading the pages and clearing all my cook
95 Aesma: That would add to the theory that Boeing couldn't delay the 787 flight no matter what. I didn't go on the topic about the 787 test program but since i
97 Woof: It's the same http://747-8firstflight.com/ link. If you just leave it running it should switch automatically (well, mine did after about a minute).
100 shaq: The weather stinks in Washington ! It's showing on the video , delayed due to weather.
101 Dan23: 11.00am PST for departure now supposedly
102 MadameConcorde: There was a problem with the popup on Firefox 3.5 so I tried with IE and it works. I now have the right page with the "delayed due to weather announce
103 XBerg: If you look closely you'll notice that the camera view isn't a still but in fact feeding already. There are people walking in the background.
104 platinumfoota: Delayed do to weather? What is this an airline? Come on! Lets get her flying already!
105 Aer Lingus: The camera has just zoomed up closer. Maybe something its about to start or something? It has just zoomed out to the original position again. There's
106 MD80fanatic: Audio now with faint engine sounds, and a barely audible countdown. Maybe we'll get something soon.
107 MadameConcorde: Oops there is some sound in the background Maybe something more is coming?
108 platinumfoota: To me it sounds like the APU, since I see no ground power connected.
109 midcon385: Sounds like the APU to me as well. Likely that's what it is. Tim
114 platinumfoota: Yes u can, ask any ramper. Well we cant see the engines so cant really tell. The drop and rise in pitch sound makes me lean more towards APU.
115 MadameConcorde: Looks like very small cockpit windows for such a large body! Quite a different architectural concept from the A380. Fly Big Girl, Fly! Show us yo
116 Stitch: The sun is now out over Seattle, so hopefully PAE's conditions will improve soon.
117 KL911: Damn, they stopped the camera. Longer delay?
120 Mexicana757: Live feed just went out... someone trip and unplug a cord? Â [Edited 2010-02-08 10:49:49]
121 platinumfoota: Ahhhhhh! Why would they do such a thing?
122 MadameConcorde: I thought it was my internet but you all seem to confirm that they have cut the live feed.
123 NYC777: Boeing's webcast has gone offline and employees are leaving the area. We're in for quite a wiat.
124 laxboeingman: The web cast is online; the first flight has been delayed for weather. Also, if you go to http://www.newairplane.com/747/ and go under who is flying,
132 LTU932: Yes, but it still says that there's a weather delay.
133 Aesma: The flight plan is indicative I think, they might go higher and/or faster. However 10000 feet seem a nice altitude to not have to worry about pressuri
134 MadameConcorde: Yes I see the CC again on the right hand corner of the screen. Takes time to get the image but it should come soon. What is the CC all about anyway? O
136 laxboeingman: There is no live feed again, and if you watch the video of the first flight plan, it says that the flaps and gears will remain down for the first hour
137 Emirates2005: Is the flight crew already in the plane? All I can see is one guy walking around the main landing gear. I hope there are no more delays. Put some air
138 NA: Thank god Iôve nothing else on my calendar tonight. So I use the waiting time working overtime at home. Something aviation related so it fits..
139 platinumfoota: Since we seem to have some time: According to Flightaware the first flight will be KPEA-KPEA, why not KPEA-KBFI like the 787?
140 jeffry747: In all honesty, I think they should hold the first flight tomorrow, February 9th. Feb. 9th is the 41st anniversary of the first flight of the very fir
141 laxboeingman: Yes, and the feed is now on for me. Watch the plan video it is cool, they will take-off at a faster speed and land at a faster speed than normal.
142 frmrCAPCADET: It was a little foggy here about a 100 miles south of Paine, and in the last hour the fog has greatly intensified.
143 Emirates2005: Feed is frozen again. Let me guess...weather?
144 BlueElephant: Looks like it could be another hour or two, employees are heading back to their stations. you can follow here, unconfirmed window now between 1200 and
145 MtnWest1979: Heck ,it is like awaiting a shuttle launch lol. Never plan your life around it  [Edited 2010-02-08 11:11:15]
146 EA772LR: While I agree on a purely 'sentimental' position, ultimately if Boeing gets a window today to get it up in the air, the they should take it today. It
147 iflyKPDX: Back to close-up shot with "Continuing to hold due to weather" message.[Edited 2010-02-08 11:14:01]
148 FlyVail: Delayed for weather message now removed from the stream and the camera went to close-up of the nose section. Progress?
149 AirFrnt: There is not a chance in the world that the break even numbers of the 747-8i and A380 are even distantly related.
150 TISTPAA727: I guess it is slightly positive when the caption says "continuing to hold"...at least it is a change. Wish they would provide a little extra detail on
151 NA: Would ne nice. Iôm sure Boeing knows wether or not the weather will permit flying within the next hour or so.
152 rbgso: Well, the two numbnuts are back to leaning on the front tire. Maybe that is a good sign.
154 Revelation: Am seeing the "continuing to hold" screen at http://www.kirotv.com/video/22498423/index.html Am seeing the "continuing to hold" screen at http://747-8
155 GAIsweetGAI: Thanks a million for the link! For some reason, the other one doesn't want to work over here...
156 LTU932: According to Flightaware, the delay is 2 hours 10 minutes. ETD would then probably be 1210 PST.
157 clemsonaj: #7478FF going nuts. reports that it will fly within an hour. Conflicting reports saying "an" hour versus "the" hour - two completely different things
158 BlueElephant: http://twitter.com/search?q=%237478FF Within the Hour ....looks like 2 787s and the 747-8 could all be flying at the same time.
159 Anshuk: Okay, is it just me or does it look like its fairly sunny in the video? And the ground seems pretty dry as well so no rain. Fly baby, fly!
160 Anshuk: Somebody familiar with the airfield could probably answer this - looking at the current position, does the plane need to be pushed back or can it taxi
161 platinumfoota: See if u can follow them all http://boeing.flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE1 http://boeing.flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE2 http://boeing.flightaware.c
162 frmrCAPCADET: Anyone looked at a satellite picture of the NW, fog is starting to lift, but I imagine that the test plane has to be visible to the two (?) chase plan
163 rbgso: We may be close. Partly cloudy skies and no more "hold" message....
164 oyKIE: According to Flightblogger it needs 1500 foot ceiling, and there is currently 700 foot. They have untill 2PM, and then the window closes: http://www.f
165 JohnKrist: The hold due to weather is gone now
184 flood: This is quickly turning to be a rather non-productive day at work here.
185 dragon6172: Doh! I never knew that was even there.
186 DocLightning: Complain all you like, but my webcast isn't even working...
187 OA260: 1230 Estimated taxi time [Edited 2010-02-08 12:13:28]
188 flood: try here http://www.kirotv.com/video/22498423/index.html currently no stream due to hold though.
189 Revelation: KIRO-7 is showing some live shots from ground level... Nothing interesting yet... http://www.kirotv.com/video/22498423/index.html
190 DAL1044: How many a-netters are present there right now?
191 ProPilot83: So excited and ready to blast out of my own chair at home! Watching this thing take-off live baby on Boeing.com webcast, go Boeing! go Boeing 747!, lo
192 JohnKrist: Safe to say that Royal is there at least!
193 gkirk: LMAO, funniest and most stupidest thing said on a.net yet
195 OldAeroGuy: I think you need to fly as many transport category experimental flight test hours as John Cashman before you earn the right to call him stupid.[Edite
196 flood: Ditto, particularly the "stupidest" bit.
197 KL911: Get IE8 free with the windows update function, IE8 works perfect.
198 alasdair1982: What's that silly person doing taking a shot on the shadow side?!
200 Flynorth: All this people watching a screen with an airplane on the ground (so far) while commenting on airliners.net. People, it doesn't get nerdier than this
201 ProPilot83: I was there last year at the Boeing Commercial Planet in Everett, Washington in May of 2009, I took the Boeing tour, and I got to see the first 747-8F
202 Stitch: KIRO did note during the Noon News that Chopper 7 is at PAE to film from the air.
203 rbgso: The dude's got sunglasses on now.....weather must be great!
204 BlueElephant: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE1 BOE 1 (ZA001) hanging out south of Puget Sound Would be neat to see them together I suppose. 4 engines on. 12:
205 JohnKrist: And getting some pulse, geez I need professional help. Same when A380 took to the sky, I was nervous to the point where my stomach made groaning soun
206 DAL1044: Whats the odds of getting all 3 in a formation photo shot?
207 flyvabb: Too much excitement! Can't wait to see her take to the sky! Go Boeing! woohoo!
208 PC12Fan: You know it! The "Queen" has a special place in my nerdy heart, can't wait to see V1!
209 KPDX: Oh c'mon, we can all be nerds together though!
222 Anshuk: No disrespect to Cashman, just saying they should stay out of the screen and concentrate on the plane as much as possible. My apologies, She's ROLLIN
223 Mexicana757: Wish I was there!!! Can't wait for it to take to the skies!
224 Aesma: It was earlier on FF but now it only works on IE (I have the two opened with the live for redundancy).
225 Plainplane: They just said they would shut up, and then they keep talking, LOL.
248 Kit777: BEAUTIFUL!! Well done to everyone at Boeing. Start of something brilliant no doubt. Thanks Kit
249 KPDX: What a takeoff! Powerful bird. Anyone know if it is completely empty? Congrats Boeing!
250 NA: Amen. What a fantastic looking aircraft. Iôd wish they could broadcast from out of the spyplane!
251 oyKIE: Congratulations to Boeing and the 747! She is still the Queen of the skies![Edited 2010-02-08 12:45:54]
252 OhTheDrama747: Congratulations Boeing! A very impressive takeoff.
253 iflyKPDX: Lovely. Especially liked that we got a glimpse of it after it broke out of the clouds again. Between this and the shuttle launch today has been very n
254 LTU932: Amazing. Once again we got proof that the 747 is, and will always be, the Queen of the Skies. I can't wait until the 747-8I has its first flight, and
255 A380Heavy: No arguing with that - that is one beautiful looking aeroplane. I was a little surprised at how little wing flex there appeared to be - but maybe it w
256 flynlr: Beautiful Takeoff,.. Congrats to Boeing ... am I the only one who wanted to reach through the internet and choke the Boeing Commentator??
257 jayeshrulz: Crap ! I missed it!! when is it landing???? Will there be a webcast? Any youtube takeoff videos, i'm cursing myself now
258 jeffry747: SHE FLIES! Always a proud moment to see a brand new 747 fly for the first time.
259 justloveplanes: It looks like she retracted her landing gear... unlike the 787. Guess it's the same set as the previous gear.
261 DocLightning: I was just doing my job, so I couldn't have watched it...and my internet connection is so crappy that I can't really watch the live cast anyway. So y
262 skyhawk62507: ZA001 did swing the gear on her first flight, too.[Edited 2010-02-08 12:59:36]
263 flynlr: uncut Video here http://www.kirotv.com/video/22498423/index.html
264 BlueElephant: http://boeing.flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE501 http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE1 They're in the same area....
265 PW100: For those that missed the live streaming . . . or just because it is so nice! Sweeeet!![Edited 2010-02-08 13:44:17]
266 shaq: I missed it too lol !! If you find any video send me a PM please
267 elpinDAB: There's a 787 flying around right now too. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE1 I doubt formation photo shoots are high on Boeing's priority list f
268 shaq: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbBr84ROgYM Heres the video .Low quality , but something is something
269 WingedMigrator: Flightaware shows BOE501 and BOE1 at about the same location, heading, speed and altitude. Hmmmm
273 skyhawk62507: I have to think we can look forward to some formation pics on Boeing's site before the day is through...
274 BlueElephant: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE1 I retract my hmmm...It looks like the 787 is heading back to land...she's flying too quickly...they may have a
275 treebeard787: Oh man that is a beautiful plane. Long live the Queen of the skies!
276 skyhawk62507: You're probably right... but I'm holding out hope!
277 DocLightning: OK, throw rocks but... I'm a little disappointed. I figured the wing flex would be even better than the 744. Those wings barely bent at all. And the l
278 KPDX: Well some possible theories: -Weight (was it empty on this flight?) -Rotation speed was fast (didn't really have to climb as "hard") What do I know.
279 MrSkyGuy: Sure hope the boys in the front seat can do a better job during the press debrief than Carriker did with the 787's first flight. Judging from the vide
280 EA772LR: Most beautiful 4 holer out there in my opinion. So glad to see another Boeing program moving forward. It seems like the second half of 2007, all
281 JohnKrist: I disagree, that silhouette of those long wings sure is impressive to me. Absolutely one to look at and go "Awwww" when it passes over you at 30K
282 KPDX: Heres a very good video of the takeoff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGB5czLQEA4 btw, I was amazed at how long those wings are!
283 RJ111: I'm not sure if i'm a fan of the stretched fueslage on the -800F, i guess the small hump emphasises overemphasises this. I think the -800I will look e
284 KPDX: Heres a great photo by Draagyn on Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/draagyn/4341161213/sizes/o/ and also by moonm: http://www.flickr.com/photos/moo
285 JohnKrist: There are some good images on ANet already, from Royal and a few others Edit: For some reason image linking are not working, photoid or twoid etc[Edit
286 KL911: Flight is heading south now, will they need to land from the South?
287 474218: The only number that really counts is the Net Profit Margin (Total Operations) 4.1%.
288 EA772LR: That thing is a monster. I have the 748I and the A380 in 1/200 scale...I'm going to go compare them. The 747-8 is LONG...good grief.
289 Anshuk: Does the weight of the outer engines on the wing restrict wing flex to an extent?
290 Laddie: The pilots know they are being tracked on Flight Aware, so I think they are trying to write something. Hmm..."747" perhaps?
291 SeaBosDca: Those pictures make clear just how long it is... that is one very long aircraft. I'd be curious to know how many rows of seats would fit on the lower
292 alwaysontherun: Hmmm, some will chew your head off for writing that. Something I learned recently. I bought the A380 in 1:100, try putting that in your luggage as a
293 KL911: Lol..... looks more like a baseball bat to me... Is there already an ETA filed?
294 2707200X: I saw the 747-8 fly on AP via USA Today, the plane looked spectacular in the sky, congrats to all involved in the project.
296 Ychocky: Stream just updated stating a 1615 PST arrival back at KPAE.[Edited 2010-02-08 15:46:01]
297 A380Heavy: Landing scheduled for 4.15 PST - the live feed just started up again!![Edited 2010-02-08 15:47:02]
298 A380Heavy: Flying at 124kts at the moment at 17,000 ft - are they testing the landing configuration at altitude?
299 tdscanuck: I don't think they pay test pilots to be good PR people. Tom.
300 AndrewUber: OK so the question is - which runway? They've been using 16R for a while now, both before and after the 748 departed. There's a Mooney doing touch-n-g
301 cvervais: Are there any news stations covering the landing?
302 KL911: http://747-8firstflight.com/ Great live covering....
304 midcon385: Webcast coverage has begin, and looks like probably 16R from the FlightAware track. Tim
305 cvervais: Thanks but, I was aware of that site, the news sites however have in the past put up helicopters to get the takeoff and landings and getting better s
306 A380Heavy: Well in to the descent now - 8600 ft and 203kts - 29 miles to run apparently!!!!
307 Mexicana757: Woohoo, live feed is back on! Can't wait to see her land.
308 laxboeingman: According to FLightAware, they are supposed to land from the North, they are going to turn and approach from the North. Also, is the live feed working
309 Anshuk: From far it looks like the landing gear is up!
310 UALWN: Congratulations to Boeing!! Although I happen to be in Seattle right now, finally I found no way of leaving my business meeting downtown and driving u
311 laxboeingman: That is good, that, I would think means, that they were done with the tests, and we flying normally. According to FlightAware they are 5 minutes out,
312 alasdair1982: Did I see it bounce when nose gear touched down?
313 Mexicana757: Wow, smooth landing. Congrats to Boeing!
315 laxboeingman: Live feed for me is still loading. Is it on for everyone else. I want to see the bird land. Like I mentioned earlier, the landing is supposed to be at
316 MD80fanatic: That plane was minimum weight for this flight. It jumped off the ground and returned with a low AoA, same as the 787 first flight. It's probably SOP f
317 cytz_pilot: I saw that too, it looked like the nose pitched up suddenly.
318 laxboeingman: Darn, I could not see the landing because the live feed is still loading for me. At least it was a good landing. Congratulations to Boeing and everyon
319 KL911: Lol, he talks about orders from Eva Air Japan....... media guys....
320 NA: Perfect landing. Congratulations to Boeing for a successful first flight of their new Queen. I wish her many happy landings. The weather was perfect,
321 Anshuk: Beautiful landing! Gracious as ever the new age Queen
322 Tugger: So using just A.net postings to calculate her flight time it looks she was up for just under 3hrs 40 mins. Tugg
325 KPDX: Well you got to take in consideration the plane is empty at the moment, so since its so light, its bound to most likely to have perhaps a little boun
326 Airnerd: How far behind is the passenger version?
327 Anshuk: I've been wanting to ask, what is the thing trailing from the tail of the aircraft? I saw it on the 787 as well. Is it some sort of instrument?
328 Glideslope: Always the Queen of Ages. Well done. Stunningly beautiful aircraft. Can't wait for the i to take to the sky.
329 NA: Sutter, the 747ôs "daddy", predicts the 747-8 will sell better than the 744!
330 Ychocky: It's a static pressure cone. It is used to detect air pressure away from the aircraft. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trailing_Cone
331 MD80fanatic: See http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/tech_ops/read.main/266827/
332 DocLightning: He's old and senile? I mean come on... no model of 747 has had such poor sales out of the gate except maybe the 743.
333 Anshuk: Thanks a lot guys, appreciate it If the performance figures are much better than what they expected, the sales might just pick up! Lets not forget
334 WestWing: To do that, the 747-8 would need to sell 695 frames, which no doubt, could be a bit of a challenge. On the topic of the first flight, if I may be per
335 justloveplanes: Others on these threads have made the point that many current 747 operators are choosing the A388 first in their replacement cycle as it adds another
336 clickhappy: Here is a shot of N747EX returning from it's first flight: http://www.flickr.com/photos/royalscottking/4341742117/
337 SeaBosDca: There's a reason he's an engineer and not a businessman... The next step for the 747-8 passenger version will be determined by its performance in
338 je89_w: Here's another nice video of the landing. Beautiful aircraft. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXgTg61DkUQ
339 LTU932: Come to think of it, I'm gonna have to get used to the engine sound having a lower pitch on the 747-8. I've been watching so many 747-400 vids to get
340 kingFriday013: Woohoo! I missed it today because I was in class. I'll watch it on youtube. Congratulations Boeing to another new aircraft off the ground! -J.
341 Moriarty: Congratulations Boeing and all hard working people that made this flight possible. I don't care what brand there's on the A/C, every new bird making i
342 madameconcorde: What happened to me is even worse. I was watching the aircraft sitting still on the tarmac with all the weather delays and boom! no more wireless...
343 A380Heavy: I've watched the landing now several times, in particular the nosewheel bounce. It seems a little odd to have such a smooth touchdown of the main gear
344 PEET7G: This has got to be the most beautiful flying thing today... the 787 is sleek, new, modern and fresh looking, but this baby is really the Queen of the
345 madameconcorde: Is it possible to find replays of the first flight anywhere on the internet? Have you any links available?
346 B738FlyUIA: I would love to see it to as was at work and there no chance to see it like the 787!!!
347 madameconcorde: I have found this on Youtube which for the time being is better than nothing! Nice take-off for the Beautiful Big Lady!! http://www.youtube.com/watch
348 NA: Well, that alone doesnt say too much. The 748 has achieved more sales at the time of first flight than the 77W for example. Sutter also pointed out t
349 Astuteman: I'll echo my congratiolations too It was great to see her fly, but I still can't wait to see the -i It's amazing how the wingtip extensi
350 747classic: Beautiful First Flight of the 747-8, a relief to see a New Generation Quad, compared to all those twin look-alike's. The wing flex was not as visible
351 alwaysontherun: And with an extended bulb please. ### "I am always on the Run"###
352 originalblis: I was reading about the A380 and how it only has reverse thrusters on its inboard engines and one of the reasons given was that the outboard ones were
353 747classic: For all who are interested : What will happen during the further testing of the 747-8F test aircraft ? - aircraft involved ? - details about the test
354 SEPilot: Personally, I think omitting the outboard thrust reversers is not the best decision. They cannot weigh all that much (especially in proportion to the
355 jetfuel: What a beuty she is. I a truly looking forward to seeing her fly. Anders Let's imagine an engine failure on one of the engines with a TR and a subsequ
356 SeaBosDca: I thought the reason was that the A380's outboard engines were so far outboard that having thrust reversers on them would lead to high risk of FOD fr
357 pnwtraveler: Correct. No matter what is said by marketing, this is a core reason. As it is the engines are so far outboard that FOD is a concern. Even with runway
358 EA772LR: I'd imagine you can fill up to around 575+ on the main deck. The 744 seats 524 in a 2 class and the 748I carriers about 51 more passengers. You
359 jetfuel: You could easily get 600-650 Y pax in the 748. What I dont know is whether they will use the existing certification and emergency exit demonstration
360 Stitch: Well one more "paper airplane" we can retire, joining the 787 and A400M in the "real" column. If only the A350XWB could fly today, we could finally ge
361 EA772LR: Oh for sure. I think SeaBosDca was talking about in the main deck alone. Yeah no kidding. Boeing and Airbus have kind of shut up the naysayers in reg
362 MadameConcorde: When I think of the total number of pax which is 550/555 on the Singapore Ailirnes 380 (Singapore Girl You Are a Great Way to Fly!) the numbers of pa
363 Stitch: If SQ went all-Y, they could get ~850 people in an A380-800... With a projected seat count of 420, I would imagine it will be around 300-325, whic
364 LTU932: I was under the impression that LH is going for a 450 seat passenger configuration (probably three-class like the current 747s) or so on their -8Is.
365 Glideslope: Very surprised, and IMO will not cannibalize 773/3510 sales. It's a niche that is growing weekly.
366 midcon385: Does anyone know if the 747-8 has a taxi camera due to its length, like the 773, A346, and A380? Tim
367 Laddie: There are no taxi cameras on RC501, but I am sure cameras could be incorporated on later airplanes if needed. I think the nose gear rose as the wing
368 747classic: The spoilers and ailerons on the 747-8F are controlled electronically by a new sort FBW roll control. The 747-400 ground/flight spoilers are controll
369 Laddie: I bet you're right, 747classic. It is a simple problem to fix. That's why new airplanes are flight tested!
370 PC12Fan: [quote = originalblis, la r Well, the 757 was also pretty slow in it's start out of the gate too. That decision was made because of FOD issues. Most a
371 tdscanuck: 747-8I does indeed have the extended upper deck. TR's are really heavy, relative to other nacelle components. The savings by omitting a T/R has got t
372 shamrock350: No doubt about it, that's one very good looking aircraft and the best bit is that this marks the start of a whole new era of the 747. Only disappointm
373 noworries: Looks like Boing just posted a video http://www.boeing.com/newairplane/747/ If I'm not mistaken Joe Sutter is in there amogst the VIPs
374 WestWing: Notice how the video abruptly switches camera angle before the nose pitch-up that happened after nose-gear contact.
375 Yendig: Missed all the live feeds due to work (bugger!); now able to finally catch up. Wonderful to see a new quad taking to the skies - well done Boeing! Loo
376 747classic: Nice video, however impossible to enlarge to full screen.. Is Boeing planning a 747-8 "Queen of the Sky" Flight Test website, like the 787 Dreamliner
377 NA: When is the next testflight? And when will the second one fly?
378 N93109: Did you notice how different the GE engines sound than RR on 787 test aircraft? I much prefer the RR sound and roar.
379 Laddie: RC501 (the 747-8 that flew) is in post-flight lay up and inspection. There were some squawks from the pilots (see the trade press) that have to be fi
380 747classic: What kind of squawks were found during flight? For the real 747 adapts an excellent HD video from the first flight of the 747-8F (more than 10 minute
381 747classic: The first photos of the interior of the second 747-8F test aircraft are available. Shown are the water ballast tanks, the reel mechanism for the trail
382 747classic: Second 747-8 aircraft N5017Q has performed high power engine runs last Friday. Here are the video's (HD) and one picture of this event : http://kpae.b
383 NA: I think thats a suitable idea. Now that its 1 1/2 weeks since first flight, the second flight must be very soon, as well as first flight of the secon
384 NA: This just appeared on flightglobal: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ntinues-airworthiness-testing.html Next flight is planned for tomorrow. Eng
385 Laddie: Flight Blogger should soon be updating his blog to say that the second flight of RC501 will be Sunday.
386 Laddie: And here it is! "RC501 second flight now targeting Sunday at noon in Everett." http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fl...oeing-suppliers-begin-product.h
387 SA7700: Kindly continue your discussion on this topic in the following thread: Official 747-8 First Flight Thread - Part 2 Rgds SA7700
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