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Are Delta Agents Excited About Their Pay Increase?  
User currently offlineDELTA7478 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 173 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9982 times:

Hello everyone by now you all know that Delta announced this week that on October 1st DL will be giving pay raises. For employees that already top off at ten and a half years the pay increase will be 9.4% to top off at 3,668.42. DO you think this is going to hurt the Unions??

Let's discuss this with an open mind..

[Edited 2010-02-06 06:58:34 by srbmod]

107 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCokePopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1190 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9883 times:

Pay "Restorations" are always a good thing.

User currently offlinetys777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 404 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9790 times:

Unions will end up asking for %9.4 across the board...


Is it bad that I get excited to see even a CRJ overfly? Man, what this place does to you
User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2723 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9725 times:

Was the thread title a freudian slip. You probably meant "Excited", but maybe you think some employees will be "exiting" instead. October is a long time away and DL lost well over a billion in 2009. I'm sure the unions will try to ask for the moon and try to con DL employees into joining. Isn't that what unions do best? - Take the companies to or over the brink of BK.

User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10644 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9702 times:

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 3):
October is a long time away and DL lost well over a billion in 2009. I'm sure the unions will try to ask for the moon and try to con DL employees into joining.

Unless the IAM and AFA gets off their butts and call for elections, we may not see an election before October. They're waiting for the NMB to change the rules, mid game, so it will benefit them and no one else.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineexFWAOONW From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 415 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 9654 times:

I take it DL is profitable again? You can't stay in business forever paying your employees money you don't have.

In the short term, front-line morale will improve (so the daily beatings can stop), but, if, they have to backpedal, it will cause irrepairable harm to employee's attitudes.



Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2723 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 9652 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 4):
Unless the IAM and AFA gets off their butts and call for elections, we may not see an election before October. They're waiting for the NMB to change the rules, mid game, so it will benefit them and no one else.

Are you talking about the poorly named Employee Free Choice Act, otherwise known as "card check"?


User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10644 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 9630 times:

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 6):
Are you talking about the poorly named Employee Free Choice Act, otherwise known as "card check"?

Actually, no. I understood that "card check" was dead. What I am referring to is the NMB now wanting to change voting rules that have been in effect for about 75 years and worked for the unions about 60% of the time.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinePeanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1445 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 9624 times:

Some of these pay increases were already planned I hear. To "broadcast" this news however in February already has to be seen as a brilliant move by DL management. In a way they are "taunting" the unions. They are challenging the unions to call for elections.
The procrastination by the unions (to wait for the NMB before they call for elections) is going to hurt them in the end. NW unionized agents feel like they are looking from the outside "in". They want "in". From what I hear through the grapevine, lots of NW unionized agents are ready to bolt from their manipulative style unions.

The unions can "ask" for similar increases. It will fall on deaf ears with some NW agents. The union has promised them so many things. What the NW agents are seeing with their own eyes is that DL actually comes through for their employees. BIG difference.

Even if NMB rules in the favor of unions, DL will find a way so EVERYONE has an opportunity to vote, Even if it has to be on paid company time.

NW unions are going the way of the dodo.

[Edited 2010-02-06 08:32:41]


Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
User currently offlinedeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 9502 times:

Quoting Peanuts (Reply 8):
Even if NMB rules in the favor of unions, DL will find a way so EVERYONE has an opportunity to vote, Even if it has to be on paid company time.

that is very unlikely. (paid time part). Delta wont take the chance to pay for someone to vote for a union.

Quoting DELTA7478 (Thread starter):

If they were true raises i'm sure people would(more) be happy. Delta is just giving back what they took in BK.

Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 5):
I take it DL is profitable again?

No.

Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 5):
You can't stay in business forever paying your employees money you don't have.

If the airlines were to play that game people would have to pay to work for the airlines.



yep.
User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3402 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 9498 times:

Quoting CokePopper (Reply 1):
Pay "Restorations" are always a good thing.

Thank you for calling it what it is.

It's also important to remember that they haven't happened yet. As noted already, October is a LONG ways off; a lot can happen between now and then.

Quoting Peanuts (Reply 8):
Some of these pay increases were already planned I hear. To "broadcast" this news however in February already has to be seen as a brilliant move by DL management.

Maybe you oughta explain why you feel that divide and conquer of a workforce is a good thing.

Quote:
The procrastination by the unions (to wait for the NMB before they call for elections) is going to hurt them in the end.

Strangely, from where I sit on the inside, this announcement seems to have given momentum to the representation campaign.

Quote:
NW unionized agents feel like they are looking from the outside "in". They want "in".

Delta's doing a great job of keeping them (us) "out."

Quote:
From what I hear through the grapevine, lots of NW unionized agents are ready to bolt from their manipulative style unions.

Into the arms of... an even more manipulative company?

What "grapevine" are you getting this all from, anyway?

Quote:
The unions can "ask" for similar increases. It will fall on deaf ears with some NW agents. The union has promised them so many things. What the NW agents are seeing with their own eyes is that DL actually comes through for their employees. BIG difference.

Can you explain what DL has "come through" on so far? All I've seen is a statement that they'll do something in 8 mos.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlinePeanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1445 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9400 times:

Quoting deltaL1011man (Reply 9):
Delta wont take the chance to pay for someone to vote for a union.

If you are familiar with the changes NMB may have in store for unions it would be wise on DL's part to make sure EVERYONE votes. It's the only way DL can win.

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 10):
divide and conquer of a workforce is a good thing.

I understand throughout several threads you think unions are a necessity and are gods gift to a healthy employee-employer relationship. We disagree. You could actually argue NW current unions is practicing the "divide and conquer" strategy right now by holding up elections. Why wait?

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 10):
from where I sit on the inside

It's because you are most likely sitting "inside" your union bubble. Be careful, it's about to pop.

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 10):
Delta's doing a great job of keeping them (us) "out."

Really? DL cannot wait for the unions to call for a vote actually.

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 10):
Into the arms of... an even more manipulative company?

I don't think your mentality and DL's (non NW) approach to employees are gonna work out for you.

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 10):
Can you explain what DL has "come through" on so far?

DL's agents are already getting paid more. Need I say more?

The unions are hanging by a thread. They are hoping NMB will be their savior. DL will play ball.



Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3402 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 9177 times:

Quoting Peanuts (Reply 11):
I understand throughout several threads you think unions are a necessity and are gods gift to a healthy employee-employer relationship. We disagree. You could actually argue NW current unions is practicing the "divide and conquer" strategy right now by holding up elections. Why wait?

Where have I referred to them as "God's gift to a healthy relationship?" I do see them as a postive, and in this case, a necessity.

Quoting Peanuts (Reply 11):
It's because you are most likely sitting "inside" your union bubble. Be careful, it's about to pop.

Nope. Inside= actually employed here, as opposed to citing such sources as "I have heard," and "the grapevine."

Quoting Peanuts (Reply 11):
Really? DL cannot wait for the unions to call for a vote actually.

B.S.

Did you read any of the motions they put forth? If not, go back and do so. DL threw up roadblocks at every turn.

Quoting Peanuts (Reply 11):
I don't think your mentality and DL's (non NW) approach to employees are gonna work out for you.

Well, I don't deal well with autocracy, sycophancy, or the constant attempts to manufacture opinion, so we'll see. This is without a doubt the most passive-aggressive place I have ever seen.

Quoting Peanuts (Reply 11):
DL's agents are already getting paid more. Need I say more?

Yes, and you can start by answering why I'll actually take a pay cut (prior to the alleged 10/1 increase). Beyond that, there's more to a package than base rates. Don't forget all the other factors (vacation, inclusive lunch, retiree medical, sick pay, OJI pay, etc.)

[Edited 2010-02-06 11:19:10]


"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineUSAir1 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 71 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 9092 times:

Do you really think DL will keep that "raise" if the IAM is voted off the property? I for one think that at the first available opportunity DL will "re-align" its payscale to be more "competitive." During the US/PI merger, everyone got a raise. The ramp union was voted off, and the raise disappeared right after the NMB election, along with many other benefits. I can't blame the company, they were just taking advantage of the situation.

I am so tired of people on this board blaming everything on airline labor unions for the financial turmoil in this industry. Just because the fixed costs are very high at an airline does not mean that savings should be extracted from labor at every available opportunity since labor is one of the few variable costs.

Everyone understands that airplanes, fuel, heavy maintenance, taxes, etc. are high and will will always be barriers to airline profitability as long as air fares remain low. Airline employees are paying to subsidize low passenger fares since there is so much fragmentation in the airline industry which results in cut-throat competitions and extremely high costs.

I understand that many people here do not value the hard work of front-line employees such as customer service agents and ramp agents since you don't need much of an education to do the job. However, if you want agents who are professional, and who are proficient to stay around for a while to offer real service, a good decent wage and benefits are a good starting point, and that is something that many airlines will not offer unless there is a contract to enforce this stuff.

Have unions been greedy in the past? Of course. Have companies as well? Absolutely. Neither side is right when they want to much, but trust me when I say most organized groups at airlines have given so much that there is not much to cut anymore.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8758 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 9052 times:

Quoting USAir1 (Reply 13):
Airline employees are paying to subsidize low passenger fares since there is so much fragmentation in the airline industry which results in cut-throat competitions and extremely high costs.

That is a bit grandiose. Every employed person has a job to do. Everyone person wants more money. Every employee "pays to subsidize" the customer's enjoyment and low prices, in all industries.... if you insist on seeing it that way.

I don't see anything unique in airlines, other than union power run amok, and chastened unions awkwardly realizing that that is the case.

Every industry has dumb executives and smart executives. One reason the airline industry is unprofitable is structural. The other reason is the instability of a union shop.

Quoting USAir1 (Reply 13):
I understand that many people here do not value the hard work of front-line employees such as customer service agents and ramp agents since you don't need much of an education to do the job.

People don't value ANYONE. Many people do a job for me and you without getting thanked, and without "decent" pay. From security guards to clothing seamstresses in faraway lands. To single out airline employees just imagines a special situation, when it isn't special... JMO.


User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10644 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 9052 times:

Quoting deltaL1011man (Reply 9):
If they were true raises i'm sure people would(more) be happy. Delta is just giving back what they took in BK.

IIRC, they already got some back, not long after emerging from the BK. At least they're giving it back. To hear the NW folks take on it, "big bad Delta" could easily not give anything back.

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 10):
Maybe you oughta explain why you feel that divide and conquer of a workforce is a good thing.

How do you figure it's "divide and conquer"?? IIRC, the memo I read said that the pre merger NW folks would get the same thing once representation issues were resolved.

Are you getting less today than before the merger? If not, what are you complaining about?

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 12):
Did you read any of the motions they put forth? If not, go back and do so. DL threw up roadblocks at every turn.

As did the IAM and AFA. Of course DL is going to object to changing the rules in the middle of the game when it so obviously is detrimental to them. The IAM and AFA were so gung ho about getting elections done UNTIL the new administration came in and they withdrew their position because they thought the NMB might be able to help "lean" things in their favor. Go ahead and tell me, objectively, that that is not what they are trying to do. Unless I'm mistaken, this is trying to change the RLA without congress actually amending it. Is that consitutional?

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 12):
Well, I don't deal well with autocracy, sycophancy, or the constant attempts to manufacture opinion, so we'll see.

Are you serious?? You deal with it everyday and at every turn with the IAM.  


Do you really think you're getting all the truth from the IAM?


And don't give me that "this isn't the Delta you used to work for" crap because you never worked for them before and I fear that you're getting all your info about the "great Satan" Delta from the IAM.


Don't forget, two representational elections have already been held for the ramp and failed, miserably.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinegoldenstate From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 583 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 8997 times:
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Quoting NWAESC (Reply 12):
This is without a doubt the most passive-aggressive place I have ever seen.

How so? Please elaborate.


User currently offlineDLflynhayn From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 441 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 8941 times:

Quoting deltaL1011man (Reply 9):
If they were true raises i'm sure people would(more) be happy. Delta is just giving back what they took in BK.

  

Quoting Peanuts (Reply 8):
lots of NW unionized agents are ready to bolt from their manipulative style unions.

Mark my words there will be No UNION!! Most guys iv'e worked with in the past 15yrs in my dept don't care to much about unions.We all still have our job why change it!


User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3402 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 8938 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 15):
As did the IAM and AFA. Of course DL is going to object to changing the rules in the middle of the game when it so obviously is detrimental to them. The IAM and AFA were so gung ho about getting elections done UNTIL the new administration came in and they withdrew their position because they thought the NMB might be able to help "lean" things in their favor. Go ahead and tell me, objectively, that that is not what they are trying to do. Unless I'm mistaken, this is trying to change the RLA without congress actually amending it. Is that consitutional?

I'm not talking about the rule change process. I'm talking specifically about what occurred when the IAM & AFA petitioned the NMB for a single transportation ruling (the ones that were subsequently withdrawn).

Here's a question to all: If DL was as serious about having elections as some on here have asserted, why did they not accept the AFA's offer to have one immediately?

Quoting mayor (Reply 15):
Are you serious?? You deal with it everyday and at every turn with the IAM.  

Not nearly to the extent that I do from corporate.

Quote:
Do you really think you're getting all the truth from the IAM?

Information the IAM officially publishes has to be "true," since it is all in a collective bargaining agreement. Information from DL can be more ambiguous simply because policies and procedures can change. (NOTE: In this context, I'm talking about items like wages, benefits, etc.)

As for all sides of the story, no. Just like DL wouldn't publish a pro-union story. Both obviously have an agenda. That's why I've been so vocal about people looking elsewhere for info in addition to DLnet & the IAM website. That's why things like SEC filings are a gold mine of info.

Quote:
And don't give me that "this isn't the Delta you used to work for" crap because you never worked for them before and I fear that you're getting all your info about the "great Satan" Delta from the IAM.

Actually, most of the info I get about what DL used to be like is from people that lived it, like yourself. Very little "historical" info comes from the IAM (why would it?).

So let me ask you this: Is it the same DL you worked at for so many years? If so, how? If not, why not?

Quote:
Don't forget, two representational elections have already been held for the ramp and failed, miserably.

I know.

[Edited 2010-02-06 12:44:25]


"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3402 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 8925 times:

Quoting goldenstate (Reply 16):
How so? Please elaborate.

From my experience so far over, this place is like a potemkin village; all smiles on the surface, and something entirely different once you start peeling back the layers. Furthermore, no one ever just says things clearly; it's all clouded in this vaunted "collegiality" we all get to hear so much about.

There also seems to be a real "hit hard, then play nice" mentality among many people.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3402 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 8915 times:

Quoting DLflynhayn (Reply 17):
We all still have our job why change it!

Why not?

Are you sure *everyone* working when you started 15 years ago that wants to be is still gainfully employed with DL?

No layoffs?

No station closings?

Nothing?


By the way, since you're clearly such a proficient prognosticator, can you post tonight's Powerball numbers? Thanks!

[Edited 2010-02-06 12:51:18]


"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10644 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 8905 times:

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 18):
Here's a question to all: If DL was as serious about having elections as some on here have asserted, why did they not accept the AFA's offer to have one immediately?

Because, IIRC, the AFA offered to have immediate elections IF it was done under the new voting rules.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3402 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 8890 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 21):
Because, IIRC, the AFA offered to have immediate elections IF it was done under the new voting rules.

Quite right. But time and again, we hear how DL wants an election "yesterday," and it's those repugnant (to quote Mike Campbell) unions that are holding it up.

Here, we had a group call that bluff. DL blinked.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineDLflynhayn From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 441 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 8871 times:

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 20):
Why not?


I think i answered that!

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 20):
No layoffs?

Not on the Ramp

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 20):
No station closings?

Yeah a few From LAS! But they are back now

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 20):
Nothing?

Try again!!

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 20):
By the way, since you're clearly such a proficient prognosticator, can you post tonight's Powerball numbers?

Yeah its 999-neva-mine  


User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10644 posts, RR: 14
Reply 24, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 8871 times:

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 22):
Quite right. But time and again, we hear how DL wants an election "yesterday," and it's those repugnant (to quote Mike Campbell) unions that are holding it up.

Here, we had a group call that bluff. DL blinked.

Ok........DL disapproves of the unions trying to get the NMB to change the rules. The IAM and AFA specifically withdrew because they wanted to wait to see if the rules would change. The AFA then offers to hold the elections IF DL would abide by the new rules. Why would DL agree to such a thing if they objected in the first place? How is that "blinking"???

The way I look at it, the IAM and AFA are afraid they won't be successful UNLESS the rules are changed in their favor and THAT is the holdup.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
25 NWAESC : The way I see it is that DL's refusal to accept the AFA's offer runs counter to their constant assertions that they want employees to have the opport
26 goldenstate : Do you have specific examples or are you just going to continue speaking in generalities. Campbell called their actions repugnant, not them. AFA made
27 NWAESC : I do. If you'd like I can PM them to you. In the interim, my specific experiences have been with local management, IT, and HR, as well as some ACS. I
28 mayor : Why would DL want to set a precedent with an election with the IAM coming up? Hardly accurate. It should be more like "We want you all to have a chan
29 NWAESC : "We want you all to have a chance to vote, we just want it held the way *we* want." "We want you all to have a chance to vote, we just want it held wi
30 mayor : To me, the first statement seems to be rather selfish, if uttered by DL..............like "We can play football at my house, but only by my rules". T
31 Post contains links BinMonster : To be clear there is strategy being played out by both sides. Clearly one of perspective and word play. Example 01OCT pay for ASC above and below wing
32 Peanuts : Brilliant summary of what's truly going on. Thanks for taking the time to post. The status quo at DL is very unfortunate. Over the years, I've intera
33 Post contains images LAXSTEW : wow, some very cynical posts in here. i hope your in-flight colleagues i'll soon be working with are a bit more open-minded. with all due respect, yo
34 M404 : How many believe DL would have given raises had not the election been near? This is just what the IAM said DL would do.
35 DL747400 : The fatter paychecks will be enjoyed by the non-contract DL employees, and certainly everyone is grateful, but to call this a "general pay increase" o
36 DLDTW1962 : Hey, I will go to work for DL. I don't need a union telling me what I can and can not do at work. I'm about 100% customer service. Some of the rules t
37 MSYPI7185 : Um..No the management does that just fine without the unions. This is typical blame the unions for incompetent management. Same game that has been pl
38 luv2cattlecall : True. In such a cyclical industry, I wonder why they couldn't just give a 10% bonus on a year by year basis? Much easier to rebuke.. They'll certainl
39 Post contains images Transpac787 : Well, if it's been done that way for a few years, why do we even think of changing it at all?! Let's bring back the Civil Aeronautics Board, that was
40 MSYPI7185 : Nice try. Please clarify which groups were union. USAir, Delta, Piedmont, United, Comair, and America West went many many years with only the pilots,
41 CokePopper : It's obvious that you don't know Delta. This isn't USAirways. Your kidding right? Delta has stated for several years now the timeline for restoring o
42 MSYPI7185 : Well that is not quite right. We got our raises, which was just a conversion to the US payscale, for me it was huge, because I went from a 15yr top o
43 NWAESC : Thank you for the timeline. Just so I'm clear, if this october raise comes to fruition, you'll be at .4% more than you made prior to July of '07? Tha
44 Peanuts : This just confirms you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. You obviously live in your bitter, cynical union bubble. It won't get you
45 MSYPI7185 : You do realize that Richard Anderson was at Northwest and their employees are all to familiar with him don't you? Just asking.. MD
46 NWAESC : This is a joke, right? I absolutely know what I'm talking about; I was there. Were you? Compared with my equal at DL, I came out of CH11 in much bett
47 Post contains images legacytravel : There is much more to dealing with a union than just higher labor costs. You have much more strict work rules one person cannot do anothers job becau
48 L10FAV : I am a 25 year Delta employee who wonders why it is impossible to see an increase for what it is. Delta committed to it's employees in Feb of 2008 tha
49 Post contains images Transpac787 : NW pilots kept their pensions during the course of Chapter 11. Did DL's??  
50 Peanuts : I know very well. Actually, most NW employees are more familiar with Steenland than with Anderson. Huge difference. I am extremely aware of the diffe
51 MSYPI7185 : Please do not make assumptions about me. I just asked you a question. We all know the union AND the company feeds propaganda to the employees. I have
52 NW : Delta agents may make a bit more hourly, but look at the benefits Northwest agents have, Delta does not come close. My union secured for ME: NO SOCIA
53 RampGuy : Why don't DGS employees get a pay raise too?
54 NWAESC : That's interesting. In another thread you mentioned your "outsider's perspective." If you do in fact work here (or did), maybe you could explain what
55 FlyPNS1 : You might want to tell that to the tens of thousands of DL's employees who have either lost their jobs or were downgraded when DL replaced them with
56 mayor : No one is talking about bringing anything back. We're talking about what is already in place, and, if you had read my entire post, states that the un
57 NWAESC : They're generally conducted by either telephone or over the internet now. Sim Techs that are voting right now have the option of doing either.
58 mayor : So, they could do it in the comfort of their own homes, without any pressure from management or the unions.
59 NWAESC : Absolutely. That's the whole idea.
60 mayor : Just as it was in the past, by mail.
61 Peanuts : Did I say I work for the airline? Looks to me you are taking a page from the union playbook. If all else fails: get personal. And for the record: my
62 NWAESC : Nope, but you sure have been writing like you have the insight of someone that does, hence my curiosity. Kinda like telling me I don't have a clue? Y
63 Post contains images Transpac787 : My point remains that "we have always done it this way" is the most flimsy of excuses. Even DL, through the course of the merger, has said countless
64 DLflynhayn : One of the many reasons NW is no longer! But you have at least one benefit with DL a JOB!.
65 Post contains images Transpac787 : Incase we've forgotten, NW didn't liquidate or anything so your argument doesn't even have a shred of legitimacy when you try to imply that "[having]
66 DLflynhayn : They don't have to keep that benefit though,they can just quit if your not happy right? i wouldn't go to work everday like that if i wasn't happy. NW
67 Transpac787 : And it wasn't because of any of the reasons you tried to suggest were at cause. Is NW no longer because of better life insurance?? No Is NW no longer
68 stratosphere : Before you get all high and mighty about DL. I now work for FedEx and I cannot count how many people here I work with who are ex DL. They quit in dro
69 ocracoke : Is it not true that the unions are trying to organize CO ramp/gate workers right now, under the old set of rules? So if CO is good enough under the o
70 mayor : We're not talking about company policy, here. We're talking about political finagling of the highest caliber. I wonder if they can even, legally, cha
71 NW : As origianlly mentioned I was looking forward to no union with Delta but after witnessing first hand the Delta employees work rules and benefits I ch
72 stratosphere : Bullshit they didn't.. The head of the NW training dept was a female don't know her name she came in before the merger and said anyone who doesn't ha
73 Post contains images Buddys747 : Considering most of Delta is non-union from the get go, why have they not been making huge profits for so many years? According to many on hear, a non
74 Evan767 : It's like hurting a dog when it's young. It loses its trust for its owner, and when the dog finally gets a new owner, that lack of trust is still reta
75 DLflynhayn : Soaring miles over your head is a JOB in this economy! just tired of hearing cry babies!
76 Post contains images DLflynhayn : Before you get high and mighty about FEDEX stop right there your bags may not make it on your next trip on DL since i believe (but i could be mistake
77 Post contains images Transpac787 : I'll just assume you don't know the figure of speech since I'm not quite sure what you were trying to say there You know, generally people don't sign
78 Post contains images mayor : Then they're not trying. Yeah, a disgruntled, ex-employee is always a good source.   I'm guessing, from this statement, that you know very lit
79 NWA744TPA : Back to the pay increase: If the pay is raised this year and the economy tanks NEXT year like 2008-2009, then they can just revoke it.I may only get m
80 WorldTraveler : I will follow this thread but will leave the debate to others.... a few general comments, though. A union CANNOT change the fundamentals of any indust
81 Post contains images deltaL1011man : um and what if those people you are paying (by letting them vote at work) vote for the union? Its a good way to pay for a union.   this will put the
82 WorldTraveler : Since you have runon sentences that are hard to follow..I'm not sure I get what all you are trying to say... but DL said from the beginning of this m
83 T5towbar : I'm hoping that the ramp get their "restoration", and that's good for them. October is a long time away, and that's a lot of time for Dickie to change
84 Buddys747 : You didn't obviously read the whole post. I'll quote it again... So many years, which 1995-2009 is quite a few. Point being: All I am saying is you c
85 Post contains images NWAESC :    YES. Thank you for bringing that up. All too often, the "I got mine, brother" mentality takes over. Sage advice. We'll see how long that lasts o
86 stratosphere : You would be mistaken..Ist thing I don't check bags I carry on, Second we just now got the DL flight bennies but we also have them on AirTran and a f
87 stratosphere : AMFA is the former NW mechanic union and is not longer part of the equation. You more than likely meant the IAM and the AFA the flight attendants uni
88 stratosphere : Thats true some people work just for that reason but it is usually because the pay and working conditions i.e. like working all the holidays etc..mak
89 DLflynhayn : Im lost now! don't know what your talking about? Time from time all people check bags and i'll be waiting! AirTran doesn't fly to HNL,and many other
90 NWAESC : Just so I'm clear, are you actually saying on a public message board that you would intentionally lose someone's luggage? Remind me again how that's
91 Transpac787 : I think this is the most juvenile and childish thing I've seen in a very long time. You come dangerously close to topping Barney or Sesame Street. Be
92 bobnwa : You have company in another A. net member who vows never to fly DL/NW again. Must be something in the water.
93 Peanuts : Are you familiar with the rule changes NMB is considering? If you are than you would understand my point that it is in DL's best interest EVERYONE vo
94 Post contains images deltaL1011man : saying and doing aren't the same thing. WT, I will give you 500$. That is saying something that means nothing. I don't believe any front line folks h
95 ocracoke : You can flip that around and point out all the cities that DL still has gate/ticket agents, and NW does not, even with the IAM there to 'protect' the
96 Post contains images WorldTraveler : you didn't say what for so I'll accept the offer and collect. You can just send me a blank check and I'll take care of the rest.   But the simple fa
97 DLflynhayn : I was trying to be funny kick back bro! i forgot to add the smile take it easy your bag will be fine.
98 DLflynhayn : Another one that needs to take a chill pill....
99 stratosphere : You being lost makes a lot of sense...I can tell you my pay and benefits package for the exact same job at DL is far superior. Why do you think so ma
100 DLflynhayn : Don't know about that DL tech ops situation,but here in LAX you guys only took a few rubbish rampers away from us thanks bye the way! Also i work par
101 nwaesc : I'm not sure who you're trying more to convince; me or yourself. No matter. The bottom line is that taunts like yours to another poster about purposef
102 DLflynhayn : Yeah ok haole good for you! taunts please like i said take a chill pill.Your boring me with that hilarious humor of yours cya.
103 Post contains images mayor : Uh, Bubba?? Delta never did do their own food service, if that's what you're talking about. It's always been done by a contract kitchen, mostly Dobbs
104 stratosphere : It pains me to say it because when I worked for NW in ATL I used to fly DL all the time and they always treated me fantastic. Always put in first unl
105 stratosphere : Well you just made my point really. My point was more tuned to the regional airlines where they hire rampers for minimum wage..They come in thinking
106 WorldTraveler : you all can either get the thread back on topic or we'll ask that it be locked.....
107 mayor : Well, I think that the topic of this thread was bound to go off topic, considering the subject matter. There are just some subjects where that will h
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