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Delta - Alaska Partnership?  
User currently offlinejr From United States of America, joined May 1999, 969 posts, RR: 6
Posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6607 times:

So where exactly is this at right now? I have seen it said many times that Delta and Alaska will increase their cooperation when it comes to reciprocal frequent flier perks in addition to their west coast tie ups. What does this mean for their elite fliers... has anything changed yet, or is it still being worked on?

I have the note on this on sky magazine more than a few times. The last time i flew AS was in October on the DFW-SEA route, and didn't anything substantially different. I am a DL platinum, and was just curious.


I've flown on 9V-SPK.
45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5930 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6458 times:
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Along with the partnership in FF programs, I think the AS/DL partnership will benefit the existing and upcoming SEA-International routes and up and down the west coast, without DL having to add tons of resources.

User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5512 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6385 times:

Is there yet any evidence of AS/DL exclusivity? The relationship with other airlines, except for CO, seems to be continuing unchanged - which has traditionally the way AS likes it.


I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3203 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6342 times:

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 1):


I tend the think the other way, AS need DL more than DL needs AS, post DL/NW merger. The only ideology that makes since to me is diversification of what was two legacies and one LCC. Except for the smaller communities in the State of Alaska. With that said I realize AS does a significant amount of flying up and down the west coast but so does what was NW from MSP and SLC.

Lets not forget AS inaugurated service between SEA-ATL in Oct 2009, and DL recently announced their return to FAI after being absent for awhile. I see this as a tit for tat, if not a direct response to F9 announcement to serve FAI.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11753 posts, RR: 62
Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6341 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 2):
Is there yet any evidence of AS/DL exclusivity?
Not really.


User currently offlineLV From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 2007 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6244 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 3):
Except for the smaller communities in the State of Alaska. With that said I realize AS does a significant amount of flying up and down the west coast but so does what was NW from MSP and SLC.

I live in SMF.... and basically my choices if I am going to NRT are either drive to SFO, fly SMF-SFO-NRT..... but let's say I don't like UA for some reason... then the AS/DL code share works because then I can fly SMF-SEA-NRT without having to backtrack.


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3203 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6128 times:

Quoting LV (Reply 5):


I suspect you do not have privileges to SUU or not a fan of WN. WN offers a decent amount of frequency up and down the left coast from most if not all of the airports around the bay area SMF, OAK, SFO and RNO in the opposite direction at least seasonally. I wouldn't want to tackle the area in around the Donner pass during the winter months.

I have 75 plus AS flights under my belt, they are a good airline, overpriced in the markets where they have no competition.
I do think the days were they were the referred to as the west coast darling of the dance are coming to a close.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinelaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25841 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6029 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 2):
Is there yet any evidence of AS/DL exclusivity?

Exclusivity? Why would there be exclusivity?

Alaska repeatedly stated that is will continue its partnership with AA. Matter of fact from what I gather AA-AS are working on enhancing that relationship as well on the FF front.
Any exclusivity in favor of DL would be a negative outcome for AS as AA still provides for reported >40% of partner revenues post a combined DL-NW and departure of CO.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineLV From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 2007 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5851 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 6):
I suspect you do not have privileges to SUU or not a fan of WN. WN offers a decent amount of frequency up and down the left coast from most if not all of the airports around the bay area SMF, OAK, SFO and RNO in the opposite direction at least seasonally.

I'm just talking about from an interlining standpoint. I love WN, fly it all the time, but if I am traveling internationally, it's a pain to fly to SEA or LAX on WN, get my luggage then check back in with a different airline, not to mention if my flight from SMF is late at all. Now, with AS and DL interlining I can fly SMF-SEA-NRT on a single ticket and my luggage is taken care of for me at SEA.


User currently offlineMeteorologist From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5771 times:

Having been a long time NW Gold and current Alaska MVP Gold, I'd say the "new" DL agreement with AS is nothing but a step backwards from the AS/NW agreement. When the NW code died, tons of codeshares ex SEA disappeared. As a result, the connectivity when booking via DL thru SEA/PDX has gone down about 50% from what it was when NW operated. In fact, it's virtually impossible to book any of the old NW west coast red eyes unless you book an AS flight separtely from the DL one. DL does not codeshare on the AS flights that would connect to them.

In other news, the reciprocal upgrades that AS/NW folks enjoyed are gone. True, AS claims they are supposed to be coming back "soon," but I'm not holding my breath on that front and DL seems to have dropped all mention of this on their pages. According to a thread on FT, at the PDX MVP Gold Lunch, AS is trying to work on a baggage fee waiver for Golds and higher with DL but has been met with resistance to that idea. It's sad that the *A carriers can figure this out, but AS/DL and their "tight west coast" agreement can't. All in all, I'm highly disappointed in the treatment AS elites now get on DL. All we get are preferred seats (only if we wait on hold for 20 minutes to talk to a phone agent becuse it's not bookable on the delta.com) and early boarding (only if we flash our cards).

There definitely needs to be A LOT more codesharing to properly connect some of the other PacNW markets, such as GEG and BOI, to realize the potential the AS/DL relationship could have. Not only that, AS took away all the codeshares that had just been implemented beyond MSP. I really hope a lot continues to change!


User currently offlineSlcDeltaRUmd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3579 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5723 times:

AS and AA are also pretty cozy. I dont think AS is willing to jump to be partnered with DL exclusively or much more than they are right now. I think AS likes being with several airlines it works for them

DL right now wants AS as a partner for feed to its new SEA routes to Asia and for the LAX-SYD flight. Other than that i cant really see what AS can offer to DL except some west coast flights for its FFs. DL has excellent Hawaii and Alaska coverage. AS is doign what delta wants right now i dont see this developing further.

If those flights dissapear i think that DL will not be as interested in AS. I really don't think we will see DL ever really grow that much in SEA as people seem to want so badly on here. Maybe a flight or two here or there but nothing major. DL has NRT they don't need an Asian hub in SEA.

SEA is in a horrible geographical location for a domestic hub so that will never happen. I doubt DL is as interested in SEA as NWA was. OGG has been cut and HNL is being cut down to 1xdaily.

I suppose if these new SEA-Asia flights do amazingly well things can change quickly but i am skeptical with all the competition in SEA from the foreign airlines there offering better service


User currently onlinen7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1744 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5711 times:
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Quoting Meteorologist (Reply 9):
Having been a long time NW Gold and current Alaska MVP Gold, I'd say the "new" DL agreement with AS is nothing but a step backwards from the AS/NW agreement. When the NW code died, tons of codeshares ex SEA disappeared. As a result, the connectivity when booking via DL thru SEA/PDX has gone down about 50% from what it was when NW operated. In fact, it's virtually impossible to book any of the old NW west coast red eyes unless you book an AS flight separtely from the DL one. DL does not codeshare on the AS flights that would connect to them.

In other news, the reciprocal upgrades that AS/NW folks enjoyed are gone. True, AS claims they are supposed to be coming back "soon," but I'm not holding my breath on that front and DL seems to have dropped all mention of this on their pages. According to a thread on FT, at the PDX MVP Gold Lunch, AS is trying to work on a baggage fee waiver for Golds and higher with DL but has been met with resistance to that idea. It's sad that the *A carriers can figure this out, but AS/DL and their "tight west coast" agreement can't. All in all, I'm highly disappointed in the treatment AS elites now get on DL. All we get are preferred seats (only if we wait on hold for 20 minutes to talk to a phone agent becuse it's not bookable on the delta.com) and early boarding (only if we flash our cards).

There definitely needs to be A LOT more codesharing to properly connect some of the other PacNW markets, such as GEG and BOI, to realize the potential the AS/DL relationship could have. Not only that, AS took away all the codeshares that had just been implemented beyond MSP. I really hope a lot continues to change!

There's a pretty simple answer to all of this (which I really don't disagree with)....it's called Delta's inferior technology and the innate amount of time it takes to simply allow Deltamatic to offer upgrades for AS & for DL fliers on AS.


User currently offlineLAXSTEW From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 42 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5699 times:

i seem to remember hearing talk of AS possibly moving terminals @ LAX. are they moving into 5/6 here, or is that just my wishful thinking?

User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5930 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5587 times:
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Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 3):
DL recently announced their return to FAI after being absent for awhile.

Isn't DL flying to FAI from SLC? I think it's a direct response to F9 with their DEN-FAI.

Quoting LV (Reply 8):
I love WN, fly it all the time

I love WN too, but since 9/11...I've been staying away from them because of LONG lines. Has that changed?

Quoting SlcDeltaRUmd11 (Reply 10):
DL has excellent Hawaii and Alaska coverage.

DL has inferior coverage to Hawaii and Alaska. DL only flies to HNL and OGG in Hawaii and ANC and soon FAI in Alaska. AS covers a lot more of each place than DL. NW had much better Hawaii coverage.

DL will never have the same level of service to either Hawaii or Alaska, unless they start flying to LIH and restart KOA and the slew of cities and communities in Alaska.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 3):
I tend the think the other way, AS need DL more than DL needs AS, post DL/NW merger.

As Alaska evolves, I don't think either airline need each other...only exception is to maintain new DL service to Asia.


User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2888 posts, RR: 31
Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5545 times:

When you think about it, DL and AS really are an excellent match.

Alaska -

DL and NW were both huge players in the Alaska market, the combined entity is now by far the leading [mainland] carrier to the state. The DL flights can feed the AS intrastate flights year-round, and during the summer peak, really help fill those AS flights from SEA to the panhandle and FAI to the Arctic. AS Alaskan customers would have direct access to SLC and MSP year-round (as well as DTW and ATL in the summer) and from those hubs can get just about anywhere!

Pacific Northwest -

AS has major hubs at SEA and PDX, where DL has int'l gateways with very weak domestic feed (limited only to hub traffic). AS customers in these cities would gain from additional domestic cities as well as long-haul access to Europe and Asia. The AS base could also add to the DL flights.

California -

AS has the North-South traffic flows though SFO, LAX, and SAN - YVR/PDX/SEA and Mexico, while DL offers West-East flows (Hawaii, Australia, and transcons).



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6167 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5521 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 3):

How do you figures AS needs DL more? DL has vertually "NO" north-south flying in the west, even with the NW purchase. AS on the otherhand has a niche, and has easily started new destinations succesfully with no feed from codeshare partners.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5930 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5455 times:
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Quoting AS739X (Reply 15):
How do you figures AS needs DL more? DL has vertually "NO" north-south flying in the west, even with the NW purchase. AS on the otherhand has a niche, and has easily started new destinations succesfully with no feed from codeshare partners.

Hey, AS739X! How are things? The evolution of AS is making them increasingly independent from others...not that AS has been pretty independent from the start. DL benefits from AS because they can use AS to feed their PDX/SEA to Asia and Amsterdam flights.


User currently offlineMeteorologist From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5409 times:

Quoting LAXSTEW (Reply 12):
i seem to remember hearing talk of AS possibly moving terminals @ LAX. are they moving into 5/6 here, or is that just my wishful thinking?

I don't have a source to quote for it, but I believe AS is spending a large amount of money to move at LAX using their "airport of tomorrow" concept that seems to be working in SEA. This will include a new Board Room at LAX and a move to T5 (I think?) so that connectivity will be much better with DL.


User currently offlineSLCPDXATL From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 62 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5329 times:

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 13):
DL will never have the same level of service to either Hawaii or Alaska, unless they start flying to LIH and restart KOA

DL flies to both LIH and KOA from LAX. LIH is 5x weekly, I'm not sure about KOA frequency


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5512 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5278 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 14):
DL and NW were both huge players in the Alaska market, the combined entity is now by far the leading [mainland] carrier to the state.

The DOT data for the 12 months ending October 2009 shows DL/NW with about 11% of the ANC market and about 7% of the FAI market. How do you figure the combined DL is a "huge player"?



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlinelaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25841 posts, RR: 50
Reply 20, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5256 times:

Quoting LAXSTEW (Reply 12):
i seem to remember hearing talk of AS possibly moving terminals @ LAX. are they moving into 5/6 here

Yes in December LAWA and Alaska reached a tentative deal on a move to T-6 which at the moment is set for November 2010.
The plans are to offer concepts from the Airport of the Future lobby designs, and a Board Room Lounge up on the mezzanine level in T-6. Based on negotiations with CBP for staffing and United, the plans are for AS to access the T6/7 FIS also.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 14):
California -
AS has the North-South traffic flows though SFO, LAX, and SAN - YVR/PDX/SEA and Mexico, while DL offers West-East flows (Hawaii, Australia, and transcons).

AS is a bit useless now intra-CA as they have continued to reduce their Bay Area-So Cal flights. Gone are SFO-LAX, SFO-SAN, OAK-SNA, etc.

Yes AS provides great connectivity to/from PDX and SEA for Delta and give Delta FF'er something to fly out here, but they are near useless in many of the regions top business and leisure markets.
The AS-DL relationship is better then nothing but far from ideal if DL truly is looking for a real presence here.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineluckyone From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 2193 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5218 times:

Quoting LV (Reply 8):
I'm just talking about from an interlining standpoint. I love WN, fly it all the time, but if I am traveling internationally, it's a pain to fly to SEA or LAX on WN, get my luggage then check back in with a different airline, not to mention if my flight from SMF is late at all. Now, with AS and DL interlining I can fly SMF-SEA-NRT on a single ticket and my luggage is taken care of for me at SEA.

Or you could just take Delta's SFO-NRT flight...


User currently offlineLAXSTEW From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 42 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5153 times:

Quoting SLCPDXATL (Reply 18):
DL flies to both LIH and KOA from LAX. LIH is 5x weekly, I'm not sure about KOA frequency

both resume daily service in march.

Quoting laxintl (Reply 20):
Yes in December LAWA and Alaska reached a tentative deal on a move to T-6 which at the moment is set for November 2010.
The plans are to offer concepts from the Airport of the Future lobby designs, and a Board Room Lounge up on the mezzanine level in T-6. Based on negotiations with CBP for staffing and United, the plans are for AS to access the T6/7 FIS also.

good news, thanks!


User currently offlinedeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9577 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4917 times:

Quoting SlcDeltaRUmd11 (Reply 10):
SEA is in a horrible geographical location for a domestic hub so that will never happen. I doubt DL is as interested in SEA as NWA was. OGG has been cut and HNL is being cut down to 1xdaily.

Um. What are you talking about? Delta is adding KIX and PEK and more flights to AMS......so no they aren't interested at all.  
Quoting LAXSTEW (Reply 12):
ving into 5/6 here, or is that just my wishful thinking?

They are moving to T6.

Quoting SLCPDXATL (Reply 18):
DL flies to both LIH and KOA from LAX. LIH is 5x weekly, I'm not sure about KOA frequency

5x daily for both. Daily in March.



yep.
User currently offlineFFlyerWorld From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4814 times:

Quoting n7371f (Reply 11):
There's a pretty simple answer to all of this (which I really don't disagree with)....it's called Delta's inferior technology and the innate amount of time it takes to simply allow Deltamatic to offer upgrades for AS & for DL fliers on AS.

You may want to read the below articles regarding the DNS (Delta Nervous System) before you make such a judgement. Delta has and is investing more money in their IT than any other carrier. Perhaps the upgrade issue is related to AS IT and their inability to interact with DNS at this point. These issues of interacting with various systems are not resolved overnight.


http://www.baselinemag.com/c/a/Projects-Management/Deltas-Last-Stand/

http://www.cwhonors.org/search/his_4a_detail.asp?id=409


25 GentFromAlaska : My analysis was on a grander scale. DL offers more flights to more cities around the globe.
26 n7371f : No...actually the articles, which I read long ago, and the central nervous system, which I've also known about for sometime, reinforces the inferiori
27 AS739X : Well there is no doubting that DL is larger. But I think that it's just not a correct statement. They are 2 different type's of airlines. AS survived
28 FFlyerWorld : You are aware that Delta was a former player with WorldSpan/Pars right? DNS is miles ahead of anyone! Why do you think AA is in process of working wi
29 GentFromAlaska : Correct, DL offers very little N-S traffic on the left coast. I would not travel to SLC if my journey began and ended on the west coast. I would fly
30 deltaL1011man : Its not DNS that is the problem. Its DeltaMatic. I expect Delta to start working on a new res system sooner rather than later.
31 DL747400 : OMG, I cannot believe that you would roll out these articles from 2002-2003 in a discussion of DL's current IT infrastructure and capabilities. This
32 Macsog6 : I agree. I either fly out of RNO, OAK, or SFO and the only routes that AS is my choice is SFO-PSP or RNO-LAX when connecting to AA. Their product is
33 FFlyerWorld : Facts are facts! Whether or not you agree with them is another story! Relevance is relevance! Can you tell me another US airline that has invested an
34 United1 : The fact is the technology was rolled out 7+ years ago (actually DL started building it in the late 90s) and is fairly common place in many industrie
35 FFlyerWorld : Well from an x United employee who used Unimatic in 1984 - it is still being used today in 2010 and has never been updated. I assure you that Delta's
36 United1 : That's simply not true Unimatic (and every other airline computer systems) are constantly updated. The Unimatic of today if far different then the on
37 FFlyerWorld : Well - I cannot say since I have not worked with Unimatic since about 2001 but I will tell you that according to those ex- co workers of mine remaini
38 deltaL1011man : DNS is not out dated, It is top of the line, even being 7 years old. Alot of Delta problems are due to DeltaMatic(which is NOT DNS). Now, 95% of it i
39 United1 : I'm sure it does still look the same (it still performs the same functions that it always has) however I also know that they have constantly been upd
40 Post contains images MasseyBrown : A friend who has worked in airline IT (both in-house and as a contractor) would tell you that most of these legacy systems are constantly being patch
41 EA CO AS : ...with flight times designed to patch a hole in the existing DL schedule, not to compete with it.
42 Post contains images United1 : UA announced back in 2007 that they were spending 4 billion dollars over a 5 year period on upgrades to both the customer experience and employee pro
43 deltaL1011man : IIRC DL dropped a flight as soon as AS started ATL. This is true.
44 MasseyBrown : But if the software was written in a modern language, it would be an easy bridge.
45 United1 : It would be but while DNS is written in a modern language the systems that it links together were not...remember it took 5 years to implement DNS its
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