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RE: JAL Says NO To Delta/SkyTeam  
User currently offlineariis From Poland, joined Sep 2004, 421 posts, RR: 1
Posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 30679 times:

Hi all,

I think this has just come up. JAL has ultimately rejected Delta's offer and announced its commitment to OneWorld partners (read: AA).

Japanese article here:
http://www.asahi.com/business/update/0207/TKY201002060418.html
Look for English publications soon.

Looks like Delta can pack its bags and leave the room. Good or bad?

Best regards

FAO


FAO - Flight Activities Officer
327 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4419 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 30678 times:

Already in one of the long lasting JAL threads


JAL To Fly HND To AMS, After Skyteam Integration (by Airbuseric Jan 28 2010 in Civil Aviation)


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11559 posts, RR: 62
Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 30658 times:

Up to the mods, of course, but I would submit that - if we're to take these news reports as true - this probably does deserve its own new thread. This would be fairly substantial news.

User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4419 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 30567 times:

You´re right. Maybe not a bad idea to start a new thread as the other one went already off topic BTW Reuters picked up the story. More interesting is that the article mentions that the decision will take place this week. I personally hope so as we then can stop this speculation

User currently offlineairbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 4268 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 30354 times:

It was already known that the decision will be announced in February. So maybe next week,.. maybe a bit later  


"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
User currently offlineteme82 From Finland, joined Mar 2007, 1511 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 30315 times:
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Wow My jaw just dropped !

So it seems that AA and rest of the oneworld partners were able to keep JL on board. If this is true it is good news for me! I've been planing trip to Japan  



Flying high and low
User currently offlineHeeseokKoo From South Korea, joined Jan 2005, 639 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 30023 times:

Exciting.

But I'm (and most of us) already fed up with too many rumors and the airliner's denial on the next day (and opposite rumor next week, and again denied by airlines next day). Still this new rumor is excited, really.

It's been 5 months, since the first shaking up news was released. Hope things wrap up by end of this week, or end of this month.


User currently offlineLAXSTEW From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 41 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 29867 times:

as crewmember, love this news. rather send our own metal over there.

User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 29843 times:

I have lost faith in the ability of the Japanese news pool to do research into stories. We have been led around by the Mainichi and now every news org is picking up an Asahi article which again like Mainichi, has no sources or quotes rom the carrier.

I will wait till JAL says it themselves.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineBoeingfever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 53
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 29772 times:

JAL to stay with American, end Delta talks:

In English.

Makes sense to stay at OW and with AA, BA, QF, IB, CX, & others... Able to turn around JL faster with a partner they already are members of and know.



Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlinePeanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1438 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 29633 times:

LOL! This thing is more fluid than water. Who really knows at this point? I think we've all made our arguments for and against a certain tie up. Some of them very good ones. This high stakes soap opera makes the airline industry fascinating and so unpredictable as it is.
Staying tuned...with my popcorn...



Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32736 posts, RR: 72
Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 29318 times:

I think I was the only one who thought JAL was going to pick to AA.

I might not be a fan of their management, but somehow when things get desperate, AA does what it has to do.

But if this becomes reality, AA still can't just sit around and rely on the JAL codeshare. They need to take advantage of ATI with JAL to not only build its Japan network with JAL, but build a stronger Asia network on its own metal.

[Edited 2010-02-07 13:59:57]


a.
User currently offlineAAL0616 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 272 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 29239 times:

As some of us have said all throughout this process, quoting Yogi, "It ain't over 'till its over ..."

... and that works both ways, so stay tuned for the final-final.

However, more than once several people have cautioned the Delta enthusiasts on these threads to not congratulate themselves until the ink was dry on the page of the new contracts. Observers such as MAH456 cautioned the enthusiasts to wait and see: internal Japan business techniques, motivations, needs, standards, timetables, objectives, etc. were not necessarily ALL on DAL's side. although from the scuttlebutt on the threads around here DAL was already being congratulated for their evident genius, compelling advantages, route strength, ex-NWA hub allowing JAL to downsize, intelligence, foresight, etc. Sorry for betraying a different (if, yes, worried) perspective.

Well?

Quoting Centrair (Reply 9):
I have lost faith in the ability of the Japanese news pool to do research into stories. We have been led around by the Mainichi and now every news org is picking up an Asahi article which again like Mainichi, has no sources or quotes rom the carrier.


I totally agree with this comment. Yes, let's consider the sources ... but this much may be apparent:

DAL/Skyteam may not yet have closed the deal.

Perhaps JAL has valid reasons for opting to stay with AAL/Oneworld.

What an entertaining process this has been.

We'll see.


User currently offlinecrosswinds21 From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 698 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 29222 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
I think I was the only one who thought JAL was going to pick to AA.

That is probably true.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3740 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 29195 times:

Too bad.

AA was using threats such as "we'll oppose a DL/JL alliance", which flew in the face of the AA/BA/IB tieup. DL was talking benefits to both sides, and mentioned synergies, how to improve JL, and others. This is the inverse of another business case study, when P&G bought out a struggling Czech state-run maker of laundry detergent, Rakona, in 1991. Both P&G and Unilever were interested in the company and toured the Rakona facilities. However, while Unilever was interested in cutting costs and increasing productivity, P&G was interested in production quality, employee safety, and other virtues. When the Rakona workers voted, they chose P&G over Unilever, and P&G benefited enormously from the purchase.

I think JAL's decision to go with that AAirline will hurt them in the long run.



Primary Airport: FWA/Alternate Airport: DTW/Not employed by the FWACAA or their partners
User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1061 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 29140 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13): I think I was the only one who thought JAL was going to pick to AA.


It did look bleak there for a while. But, in the end, reason prevailed.

[Edited 2010-02-07 14:09:20]

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22925 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 29111 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 16):
I think JAL's decision to go with that AAirline will hurt them in the long run.

Without knowing what an ATI with DL actually would have looked like, there is no way to assess that.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3740 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 29071 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
But if this becomes reality, AA still can't just sit around and rely on the JAL codeshare. They need to take advantage of ATI with JAL to not only build its Japan network with JAL, but build a stronger Asia network on its own metal

(cough) ORD-HKG (cough)
(cough) ORD-ICN (cough)
(cough) MIA-NRT (cough)
(cough) LAX-HND (cough)

The first one is critical-and AA needs to do it on its own metal, not CX metal. The second and third ones one can wait until the 787 arrives. As for the fourth? The HND route case would be very compelling with a continued JL/AA codeshare.



Primary Airport: FWA/Alternate Airport: DTW/Not employed by the FWACAA or their partners
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11559 posts, RR: 62
Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 28994 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
But if this becomes reality, AA still can't just sit around and rely on the JAL codeshare. They need to take advantage of ATI with JAL to not only build its Japan network with JAL, but build a stronger Asia network on its own metal.

Agree 100% percent.

AA (may have) barely squeaked by on this one, and securing JAL through an immunized alliance will certainly strengthen AA's fortunes to Asia considerably.

However, AA should view this as an opportunity to get serious about committing further resources to Asia beyond just JAL and Narita.

The best starting place would be to launch DFW-ICN and ORD-HKG as soon as possible, as both of these routes make infinite sense and should have started years ago, with or without JAL.

Quoting AAL0616 (Reply 14):
I totally agree with this comment. Yes, let's consider the sources ... but this much may be apparent

Yep - absolutely. Again: I'll believe it when I see the press release on JAL letterhead.

Quoting AAL0616 (Reply 14):
What an entertaining process this has been.

Agreed. This has been an absolutely fascinating process to watch - and it ain't over yet!

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 16):
I think JAL's decision to go with that AAirline will hurt them in the long run.

That may well end up being true. At this point, it's impossible to know for sure.


User currently offlineSeatback From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 764 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 28894 times:

What's the total investment costs AA will spend to keep JAL? I hope it will be worth it.

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32736 posts, RR: 72
Reply 20, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 28849 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 19):

(cough) ORD-HKG (cough)
(cough) ORD-ICN (cough)
(cough) MIA-NRT (cough)
(cough) LAX-HND (cough)

The first one is critical-and AA needs to do it on its own metal, not CX metal. The second and third ones one can wait until the 787 arrives. As for the fourth? The HND route case would be very compelling with a continued JL/AA codeshare.

MIA-NRT should happen sooner than later for the alliance can maximize Latin and Caribbean connection opportunities that Sky can do via Atlanta and Star via Houston as we speak. DFW does have three key markets covered - MEX, GRU and EZE - but that is only three of dozens. JAL's 77L metal can be a short-term solution until 789s arrive.

Also, it seems that unlike in the past when JAL denied the reports, JAL is now saying "no comment."

DAL's chances for ATI.

Anyway, fingers crossed for me. It's not official yet.



a.
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11559 posts, RR: 62
Reply 21, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 28838 times:

Quoting Seatback (Reply 22):
What's the total investment costs AA will spend to keep JAL? I hope it will be worth it.

If recent reports are to be believed, the investment AA will put into JAL is 0.

The Japanese government and JAL apparently decided against accepting equity investments from either AA or Delta several weeks ago. According to the Reuters article - which I gather is the most widely-reported source of today's apparent news thus far - ETIC is "not expected to invite another carrier to invest in JAL at this stage."

So, in other words, AMR won't be expending any cash on securing the JAL deal, beyond possibly some resources dedicated to the regulatory work around getting antitrust immunity, and will still keep the alliance intact. All the upside, no upfront cost.


User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1061 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 29055 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 16):
I think JAL's decision to go with that AAirline will hurt them in the long run.

I disagree.

JAL will have more opportunities to grow its US/Japan business with AA.

JAL will also be able to maintain more of its intra-Asia network on its own metal by not allying itself with Delta.

There is also the distant probability that by staying with AA and gaining additional competitive advantages through restructuring JAL will be able to force Delta to downsize its own intra-Asia network.


User currently offlinePeanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1438 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 29047 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 21):
The best starting place would be to launch DFW-ICN

If JAL stays in OW, didn't AA practically sell its soul when it comes to NE Asia? I thought AA promised it would hand over all NE Asia traffic over to JAL in Japan?
Curious to see the details of the agreements once a decision has been made.



Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
User currently offlineNYCAdvantage From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 355 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 29314 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 16):
I think JAL's decision to go with that AAirline will hurt them in the long run.

lol, That is what I like about those old guys, after been succesfully once, they just want to put the stamp on what ever they take right away even if it could be ill-advice, they always take the chance lets hope for the best with AA, Now I wonder what ST and DL will do? will they try to get a deal with a small airline there in Japan, who knows, lets hear the experts on this one....


25 Cubsrule : I think one of the big lost stories in this whole mess is how much DL needed/needs JL. Their NRT hub isn't working, and as more flights to interior A
26 Post contains links commavia : Bingo. Again, starting off with the caveat that this isn't over until it's over, I'd say that - assuming today's news is actually true - Delta's next
27 goldenstate : Please share the analysis that leads you to make these statements. JAL does not operate the 77L. What existing B777 routes do you propose AA cut, dow
28 commavia : They don't need to cut the 777 from anywhere. AA's present fleet of 47 777s is underutilized. Their present schedule, by my count, requires a grand t
29 kiwiandrew : If confirmed then this is very interesting . I need to find an icon for 'swallowing humble pie' I wonder what will happen to the relationship they hav
30 jfk777 : Great, Oneworld isn't going to disintegrate. Now BA and JAL need to cordinate better connection over LHR, that problem has only one solution: BA allow
31 LDVAviation : This is not the first time I have made these statements. In previous posts on the subject, I have provided the appropriate analysis. You can search f
32 kiwiandrew : BA cant even fit all its own flights into T5 , they cant fit their closest co-operation partner QF into T5 and they cant fit their merger partner IB
33 robffm2 : Why didn't they do it in the past? Afterall the alliance thing is about giving better service to the customers, isn't it?
34 MAH4546 : JAL has one daily flight. That is not the case for Qantas, American nor Iberia. However, if JAL chooses to stay with oneWorld, I imagine the re-openi
35 Post contains links commavia : Well, that's really up to those SkyTeam members. oneworld has no requirement that members not codeshare with non-members, so there is now and won't b
36 jfk777 : JAL's presence at LHR is less then IB or QF's. Given the need for JAL in OW BA should "do what it has to do" so the JAL's 77W get to terminal 5.
37 kiwiandrew : Nevertheless , BA cannot fit all its own flights into T5 , so I cannot see them allowing someone else in even for just a single daily flight ... part
38 MAH4546 : As JFK777 noted before me, BA will do what it has to do. If it were to become enough of a sticking point, I think BA will allow JAL into T5. It's not
39 web500sjc : letting JL into T5 @ LHR, is something I don't think BA will do, but why doesn't BA move into T2 @ NRT. BA is the only OW partner not in JL's terminal
40 Akizidy214 : AA needs to show JAL some love. NRT-DFW needs to be operated by both airlines. AA could move those T7's else where... ORD-HKG, MIA-CPT-JNB, MIA-NRT so
41 JAL : If this is true, it would be great news for JAL; AA and OneWorld!
42 AA787 : Isn't there still another concourse at T5 that has not been yet been finished? Sorry for my ignorance...
43 SKY1 : I think JL realized at the end that switching alliance might be a big mistake and having problems from the American regulator when discussed a hypothe
44 steex : While SkyTeam will probably be quite disappointed with this turn of events, I imagine KE is trying to stifle a smile in the background. While opening
45 jfk777 : BA is, finally, moving to NRT terminal 2 as per a press conference AA, BA and QF had in Tokyo a month ago.
46 Speedbird2155 : Yes and that is to be used to reduce the level of off pier arrivals and departures that are currently undertaken at T5. BA does not need to let JAL i
47 LAXdude1023 : Picture this: JL stays in OneWorld and gains ATI with AA. AA/BA/IB finally get ATI. OneWorld lures one or two more members. With that, all the allianc
48 MaverickM11 : Is this for real or is this like the umpteen news releases touting JL's decision to go with DL? I did disagree with you on that one; it seemed like a
49 MAH4546 : If JAL goes with AA, it will likely be for these reasons, IMO: 1) A JAL-AA relationship would likely have JAL play a greater role in flying its own a
50 Boeingfever777 : Well said! MIA-NRT I think will happen sooner than later.
51 MAH4546 : If the alliance happens, absolutely. If it doesn't, it will go on the backburner for a long, long time.
52 goldenstate : Underutilized may or may not be the correct word to describe their schedule. If increasing fleet utilization means re-timing flights in the mostly pr
53 laxintl : Staying with AA is a mistake in my books for JAL. Instead of turning the Japan market into a more stable two-way game with DL-JL versus NH-UA, staying
54 goldenstate : This is becoming sort of obsessive-compulsive for you. Both the 77W and 77E would take weight restrictions on this route.
55 WorldTraveler : If true, this decision once again confirms how poorly JAL has been run and that they are unable and unwilling to do what they have to do to turn their
56 cws818 : Please enlighten us as to how CO alone could bury AA. And, yet, DL is still - shockingly - smaller than JL in Japan. You really think DL will take do
57 CODC10 : MIA-NRT has 787 written all over it, IMO.
58 MAH4546 : Hysterical. The bitterness shines through right away.
59 Post contains links ATTart : I am not sure if this article was posted on another thread? If so I am sorry, please feel free to remove it.. Thank You.. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/
60 MAH4546 : I think it was posted elsewhere, but nonetheless very relevant to the topic at hand and it does describe the situation well. Thanks for the link.
61 Macsog6 : I must agree with MAH4546 as the logic to support the conclusions is just not stated. To dismiss JL/AA as not being competitive in Asia, coupled with
62 CODC10 : I can assure you that they are not laughing right now in Atlanta. DL/JL would have been an critically important strategic maneuver for DL and SkyTeam
63 Incitatus : If the title of this thread is confirmed, I will be waiting for some rewriting of history soon - I expect to read in a.net in a few weeks that it was
64 cjpark : If I am not mistaken AA started the second daily flight from DFW after JAL dropped their daily flight.
65 ATTart : Thank you and you are welcome! What was said in WT's post just did not make much sense to me.
66 commavia : Nope. No re-timing. Read what I said at precise face value: AA's current 777 schedule - as is, no changes at all - does not require 47 aircraft. Ther
67 Post contains links MAH4546 : This report from 20 minutes ago from NHL cites JAL as the source that it will continue with AA. http://www.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/08_02.html
68 Post contains images golli : Credit where it's due. Not yet, you mean ?? Are they waiting for the ATI approval?? If BA & AA & QF & CX do not share T5, in the long run
69 commavia : No. T5 was always the BA terminal. At the very early stages - going back over a decade ago - AA was lobbying to get into T5, but that never materiali
70 MAH4546 : I don't even think AA neccesarily wants to leave T3. They have quite an investment in lounge space at T3 with not one, not two, but three lounges - a
71 flyfree727 : [ This translates into " I HATE AMERICAN AIRLINES" AA ORD
72 Post contains images OA412 :    The following quote in one of the posted articles is quite interesting: "JAL's new management says that remaining in the present airline group i
73 golli : This is a 180 turn. The very reason that JL is in this weak position, is the high cost structure. And all speculations about who JL would align with,
74 commavia : A fair point, although I would submit that once (if) JAL and AA get antitrust immunity, and JAL deepens its ties with not only AA but also other onew
75 Post contains links LDVAviation : You still don't get it. Commavia referred to this article earlier in the thread. Here's the link again: http://www.swelblog.com/articles/a-b...or-the
76 mariner : That is something of a relief to me. I prefer fragmentation to a cosy duopoly. mariner
77 MaverickM11 : If AA/JL is crushed by NH/UA/CO, and DL is now a distant third in Japan, what does that mean for DL? If this is true ATL is not laughing. This makes
78 MAH4546 : While I am not at all familiar with the logistics and mechanical of Japanese bankruptcy law, I am assuming that JAL's bankruptcy proceedings will go
79 Post contains images golli : That: "AA was lobbying to get into T5, but that never materialized" just like I said. BA are in no hurry to help anyone, not even OW partners. Sounds
80 Cubsrule : Isn't there a charter contract tying up quite a bit of widebody lift for the coming summer season? I think that's right. But a lot of it is going to
81 goldenstate : Do you have some analysis on this? It would be interesting to see. Why wouldn't they be. If you were presented with an opportunity to take a key part
82 Cubsrule : AA-JL is not disastrous for DL. The status quo is (and has been) disastrous for DL. That's why they needed JL.
83 MAH4546 : Nobody is arguing that. The fact remains that the 772 is far from ideal for MIA-NRT. The fact that the 772 can fly it does not mean it is the best ai
84 LAXdude1023 : I do wish you would at least attempt to be objective. I think you know that if this happens, DL are the ones who should be worried about NRT, not AA/
85 Post contains images OA412 :    They have a plan B, whatever it may be, and they will undertake it if indeed this report is true. There is no way that DL is going to flood capa
86 American 767 : That's right. Even if JAL chose to go to Sky Team, One World would not disintegrate. Anyway this is good news. I'm glad to hear that. S7 of Russia. Y
87 commavia : My count (feel free to correct me if you see that I'm wrong somewhere). All of this is for the schedule from 23Jul10, right in the heart of the summe
88 Post contains images LAXdude1023 : I wonder how much expansion they would do in Asia if JL stays on board and they get ATI. ORD-HKG has to happen at somepoint. I think DFW-NRT would pr
89 Post contains images aaway : +2. As someone who believes DL has the best business case, I'd be damned happy if AA pulls this one out of the hat! (likely as biased a comment I've
90 Post contains images Jacobin777 : With KE and OZ flying ORD-ICN, I dont' think AA would do too well as the third player. DFW-ICN would fare (no pun intended) better.   
91 OP3000 : I get your logic, but I actually see that dynamic the other way around. OW depends more on AA's and BA's ability to turn it around growth-wise than t
92 Post contains images golli :    I've said it all along. ICN is the best hub to operate T-PAC. Even PEK should have value there. DL should re-organise the NRT operations, bring
93 Post contains images LAXdude1023 : There is one thing that is giving me a little more hope is that in the past announcements, JL has come out immediately and denied them. We havent hea
94 Post contains images Jacobin777 :    Mrs. Jacobin777 and Cat-777 are sleeping....that being said, I might have to retire for the evening as well.      
95 MAH4546 : I think JAL said in the WSJ that it has "no comment," but, still, like you said, I believe the lack of immediate of denial might make this more credi
96 CODC10 : It has to be to de-emphasize NRT as a connecting hub, concentrate on higher-yielding nonstops to the United States, and schedule more overflights to
97 OA412 : Well thank you dude! That's the thing, it's become a soap opera. At this point, it's all speculation until JL makes it official.
98 OA412 : That would be my guess, but we'll have to wait and see what they do. As you state, ICN isn't NRT, but Seoul is a huge city and Korea is a large and g
99 aaway : OA412, if you're a DL employee, a question for you regarding this quote: My understanding is the DALPA contract stipulates a minimum number of slots a
100 OA412 : Sorry I'm not an employee. But I'm sure that someone will be able to answer your question for you.
101 Post contains links commavia : An interesting tidbit - unconfirmed, of course - that I haven't heard anywhere else. It gives an interesting spin on the behind-the-scenes interaction
102 MaverickM11 : We were already seeing the beginnings of the restructure before the JL option precipitously fell into DL's lap; simultaneously we've also seen how re
103 FlyDreamliner : I'm not going to believe anything until there is an official press release and news pictures of executives shaking hands. There has been more back and
104 LAXdude1023 : This makes no sense. Either getting JL in your corner is a good thing or its a bad thing. Either the money is a none issue and the foothold at NRT is
105 MAH4546 : There is no cash involved here. JAL rejected the cash offers. Nobody is investing in JAL.
106 Post contains images ocracoke : Huh??    I think you are arguing with yourself?? Should AA go ahead with MIA-NRT now because of the dozens of new markets that they can maximize, o
107 commavia : I wouldn't say they lose nothing. They will lose their current advantage of having non-immunized competitors on its key U.S.-Japan routes. Immunized
108 MAH4546 : I'm not arguing with myself at all. Airlines should enter risky and tricky markets, because many offer long-term gain. Risky and tricky doesn't mean
109 Macsog6 : That is probably the wisest statement in this whole thread. To quote Mr. Berra, "It ain't over till it's over."
110 golli : What I meant was; BA are in no hurry of bringing any LHR value to OW. And bringing value to alliance partners should be essential. I will end these (
111 ocracoke : Why would you think that MIA-NRT would be tricky and risky in the first place (besides the current lack of proper aircraft)? It cannot be much of a r
112 MAH4546 : When is the last time an airline flew non-stop trans-Pacific from Miami? It's risky, simple as that. I'm not really following your logic. Is it not r
113 ocracoke : Then why start it tomorrow (sooner) with the wrong aircraft (JL), and not wait until it is more ripe with the correct aircraft?
114 mayor : If this is true, I wonder if, although this choice might have been the easy one for JL, is it the right one?
115 golli : The "correct" airframe is here now. But neither JL or AA have it in their hands. They'd have to finance it. And a cash strapped airline, in a middle
116 MAH4546 : Who said tomorrow? I was thinking 12-24 months after an alliance is in place. And given the speed that AsiaSouth America is growing at, then yes, put
117 Post contains links kiwiandrew : This appears to be quite recent http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...rican-delta-offers-this-month.html Japan Air Will Decide Between American, Delt
118 OA412 : And the saga continues...
119 Post contains images CHRISBA777ER : Hate to say I told you so. Amused me no end hearing the "DL are better for JL - FACT" nonsense from the DL fanboys on here. It is nowhere near as set
120 OA412 : And why is that? Did you bother to read the facts before you merely discounted them as nonsense? For the record, it wasn't just DL fans who were argu
121 NYCAdvantage : For sure the Asahi news paper wants to be right at all cost, they are like a revolving door, but I can tell you, I don't know what to believe anymore
122 Post contains images United1 : I agree its kind of silly....I keep waiting for a story to come out where they state that JL is joining Star..  Either way I think that JL/AA is the
123 Post contains links MAH4546 : And the latest story from the evening Mainichi: http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/busin...news/20100208p2a00m0na011000c.html It says no decision has been
124 Post contains images Peanuts : I fully agree! What happened? You should take your own advice first before you advice to all...    Like I said in an early post on here, this JAL b
125 avek00 : The re-establishment of the global dominance of USA legacy air carriers is under way. Whether JAL partners with Delta, or remains an ally of AA, the a
126 OP3000 : That new JAL chairman almost talks like an AAdvantage FF: "New JAL Chairman Kazuo Inamori is apparently in favor of deepening the airline's current p
127 goldenstate : It may not be the most ideal aircraft for that particular market, but the point remains that if the business case for MIA-NRT was so strong, lack of
128 WorldTraveler : I appreciate you making an effort to at least try to put forth an objective argument and answer the very real objections which I raised why AA/JAL can
129 Post contains links MAH4546 : I'm not going to argue something so insanely ridiculous. Believe that if you wish - lack of suitable equipment will absolutely stop AA from establish
130 WorldTraveler : so which is it? either the a/c is NOT AVAILABLE and AA won't fly the route if they don't have the right a/c or they will move forward with a new mark
131 goldenstate : You are to be commended for your tenacity, but a quote from a sales guy does not change the fact that a 6400 nautical mile route with a 77E is simply
132 MAH4546 : What you are saying is no different than saying, in one sentence, "we don't have the appropriate airplane for the route." I see that its now clear we
133 goldenstate : If conveniently truncating my paragraph and ascribing your chosen meaning to what you did quote makes you think we agree, I can live with that. Howev
134 CHRISBA777ER : My issue was with the fanboys crowing on here when it was all a "done deal" - all hail Delta etc, whereas the truth was rather different. I've always
135 MAH4546 : I don't really need to be told how complex network planning is - I realize it is complex, trust me. I have not tried to prescribe any simplification
136 panamair : You haven't been following the 1000 threads about this topic and the 2,000,000 responses? Very simply, in ALL business, not just in the airline indus
137 evomutant : For all you or I know, healthier position than would otherwise be the case. Just because JL is in a bad way, doesn't mean it couldn't be in a worse w
138 ha763 : These are two quotes from the article that caught my eye: These quotes are telling me that the alliance switch was being forced on JAL by the governm
139 AusA380 : A lot of the discussion has been about AA vs DL and JAL/BA into LHR, all of which are interesting and discussions as to which is a significant game ch
140 WorldTraveler : Mark, give it up.. a half dozen people are trying to tell you that as much as it might be fascinating to you, it makes no sense from an overall netwo
141 Speedbird2155 : T5 has always been designed around BA and not planned to have any other carrier there. BA was actively involved in the design and planning process an
142 Sydscott : Certainly the QF 2 airline model has worked a treat for them down here on tourist routes and it seems to be working from OOL and CNS to NRT and Osaka
143 commavia : Precisely - couldn't agree more. Delta does have options, which they will no doubt pursue. The 757 is ideal for how long? How long will it be competi
144 OP3000 : Remind me of how many flights AA has to Latin America/Brazil/Caribbean from MIA vs. DFW/ORD ? And if you think MIA-NRT is such a weak route, then....
145 BA174 : Since when has JAL required to use T5 and on what grounds? T5 was always going to be a BA only affair T7 at JFK even though that is owned by BA is a
146 airbuseric : So LHR stays a messy and trouble airport for transfer from ex JAL flight onto BA flights, meaning a transfer from T3 to T5, which is very major probl
147 avek00 : I would be personally thrilled if Delta ends up The Biggest Loser here, and they will be if JAL remains with AA and oneworld. In a restructured Japane
148 LAXdude1023 : WT, Im going to say this one more time. You seem to believe average fare is the only indicator of a flights preformance. Yes IAH-NRT has a higher ave
149 AirCanada014 : Thats the best news I've heard so far, JL wants to stay with Oneworld. I think its better for JL to say with Oneworld and not transfer to Skyteam.
150 Post contains images Cubsrule :    But NW could have done much of that and chose not to. Why not? Agreed. But to the extent there's a problem, it's the hub in its current state, n
151 WorldTraveler : And that, once again, is the LOCAL market. IAH, ATL, or DFW could not begin to support a flight to NRT on its own merits.... all are far too small of
152 United787 : This is the big issue! I think it is important to maintain a healthy three-way balance between the three alliances across the Pacific. We have a heal
153 LAXdude1023 : I never said that. Youre putting words in my mouth. Yet its data you seem to be very fond of using in your arguements. Never said it was. I use it be
154 jfk777 : JAL has only 1 or 2 LHR flights, Cathay, Qantas and AA have about 25 all together, two very different scenarios. BA needs to share the T5 bounty with
155 Speedbird2155 : I wouldn't describe the transfer at LHR as messy. It is a lot better than it used to be and one of the main reasons for T3 being the OW terminal was
156 FlyDreamliner : No matter how this turns out - it will be bizarre. Either AA has to spend a lot of precious cash to more or less get exactly what they have now (JL as
157 CODC10 : It is unlikely that DL grows at all in Japan. The writing is on the wall... much better to concentrate on overflying NRT and connecting traffic throu
158 CODC10 : No ownership stakes are at issue in this deal. This is not a cash transaction.
159 mayor : Unless I'm mistaken, I thought JAL had said that they were refusing any money from AA or DL, correct?
160 Xkorpyoh : ...what if (just a thought) DL codeshares with JL, eventually, on specific intra-asia flights or even some trans-pacific flights (like DTW-NRT, ORD-NR
161 Cubsrule : I think that's right, but the writing has been on the wall for several years. Did pre-merger NW just ignore it?
162 Post contains images AAEXP : I am sure AA would love that  
163 LAXdude1023 : Youre not hearing us. If JL decides to go with AA, AA wont spend a dime. This is a non-cash deal.
164 DLDTW1962 : Let me know when the REAL deal is made. I have had it with all the rumors flying around with this deal. I will believe it if and when JAL CEO release
165 Post contains images LAXdude1023 : You and me both dude.   
166 Post contains images MaverickM11 : AA's beyond NRT costs are next to nothing, however Both of those are about equally likely to happen  Still waiting on an example where the third lar
167 MSPNWA : AA can have JL. I guess I personally wouldn't be so interested in the stakes of a company losing money as fast as JL. Agreed. This back and forth with
168 CODC10 : ATI quasi-consolidation hasn't happened yet in the NRT market, so why would NW preempt it? They would stand to gain nothing and lose anything they ha
169 Post contains images Mexicana757 : Yes it's business common sense, but if you want to apply for ATI with a 45-60% of the market share are the authorities willing to give you ATI?? The
170 mayor : Seems odd to me that if this indeed true, that we don't have an "official" announcement from JAL instead of a news story that may or not be accurate.
171 Cubsrule : ATI isn't (or hasn't been) the problem at NRT. It's increased overflying, something that has been ongoing for some time. ATI makes the problems worse
172 Post contains images Jacobin777 : They don't need to...  Yes they do, its called the B77W. Sorry, but that's just flat incorrect in terms of the B77W's capabilities. Using Boeing's d
173 AirNZ : But there is no-one on here, including yourself, who is a definitive authority on airline management so it is irrelevant what is claimed here. We see
174 Incitatus : I would add to that the fact that WT is in a bad mood. He is already dismissing JL as not such a good partner. That does count as an indicator of the
175 veeseeten : This is twice in as many days you've put other people down for harmless speculation, yet failed to properly qualify what it is that places you so wel
176 CODC10 : ATI exacerbates the situation for an unaligned competitor. You are conflating these two changes in the competitive landscape. NW was able to weather
177 Cubsrule : NW made money at NRT after 2000?
178 BA174 : So your saying BA should let JAL into T5 ahead of it's long term historic partners. If any other airline was going to be let into T5 first it would b
179 Post contains images ocracoke : Hello MaverickM11. Welcome to the DL "fanboys" club!!   Hello LaxDude1023. Welcome to the DL "fanboys" club! Funny how you left out the part of
180 United1 : OZ and OZ is not part of the ATI/JV application at least not at this point. Whether Star or Oneworld is larger in Japan is completely dependent on ho
181 ocracoke : By the time the dust settles, and JL has parked all of their 747s, there is no way that a JL/AA will be more powerful than Star. DL surely won't. Sta
182 United1 : Quite possibly, we will see when the dust settles....assuming the media got it right.
183 commavia : Who ever said that? Nobody said JAL "should" leave, but merely that if they did, it would be quite the armageddon for AA and oneworld as some Delta f
184 ocracoke : All those posts were said. I am not going to go through the past 5 months worth of this subject, but those were certainly put forth by certain people
185 Post contains images LAXdude1023 : I have nothing against DL, I have nothing for DL. They are a very well run airline who has a bright future. But since they offer little at DFW, I won
186 WorldTraveler : DL will likely grow in other cities in Japan even it downgauges at NRT. DL, not AA and not JL, is adding new service to KIX this summer.... there wil
187 CODC10 : Give me a break! 15 minutes ago you were spouting on about the powerhouse DL/JL were set to become as the deal seemed all but inevitable. Now, JL is
188 panamair : Based on Summer 2010 capacity (seats offered), here's how it breaks down between DL, UA/NH/CO, and AA/JL for Japan-USA (Hawaii and Mainland, not inclu
189 panamair : Have to disagree there. As pointed out, a DL/JL JV would be the dominant player in the Japan-USA market by any measure, whereas an AA/JL JV would at
190 airbuseric : Correct. But you should understand also a bit of Japanese culture. The Japanese passenger want to travel without any hassles. No difficult transfers,
191 LAXdude1023 : So by that standard the Japanese must really hate CDG.
192 Post contains images CDG : The Japanese are IN LOVE with PARIS  
193 LAXdude1023 : So am I. Being Lebanese, most of my family in Europe lives there. It is by far my favorite city in Europe. That doesnt change the fact that CDG is ve
194 CDG : JL uses Terminal 2E at CDG which is the premium Long Haul Terminal for AF and Skyteam..... That says a lot about the very good relationship between J
195 airbuseric : CDG terminal 2 is not bad to transfer. AF leaves from the same main building, transfer are quite easy to do. As they do also via AMS on KL. JAL passe
196 LAXdude1023 : Neither would I. I think it might as well be 50/50 at this point. If someone asked me about it, I would give a solid "I dont know".
197 Cubsrule : Again, doesn't that assume a relatively liberal ATI?
198 MaverickM11 : I wonder why... ...lost on you, as usual. Now tell me about any carrier that is a strong #3 at any hub around the world. Does it matter? JL's decisio
199 goldenstate : Sorry, but actually it's not. Since MZFW=OEW+crew+payload, the simple fact is that anywhere above about 5600-5800 nautical miles, you are trading pay
200 Viscount724 : Many (probably most in many markets) Japanese tourists travel as part of a tour group with a group leader who is familiar with airport transfers and
201 Post contains links Centrair : AA & DL both stated today that nothing is complete till JL makes an announcement. More on the Japan Airlines Drama AA's statement and DL's stateme
202 MAH4546 : Use the search feature and prove it. Other than "oneWorld will be fine with JAL in the long run," I'm pretty sure none of that is true. I did hypothe
203 WorldTraveler : apparently you didn't read this thread which shows that DL is not a distant third.... insightful for sure... but it still is largely JL's capacity th
204 commavia : Apparently you didn't read your own quote. That is the market share statistics for Japan/NRT-U.S., not NRT overall. At NRT overall - as an airport, n
205 avek00 : Coordinate capacity, and engage in maximum combined leverage of the respective carriers' sales and marketing machines, which they simply cannot do ab
206 Post contains links commavia : From Wall Street Journal - Breaking News: JAL to announce American Airlines as an alliance partner.
207 MAH4546 : Too much logic here guys! It doesn't compute. Eh, I'm still going to wait for a PR.
208 Post contains links MAH4546 : Maybe I spoke a minute too soon. The Nikkei is reporting it is official that JAL and AA are hooking up: http://www.nikkei.co.jp/news/main/20100209ATD
209 Post contains images Peanuts : You mean: they are re-hooking up   Very interesting. If confirmed, I will speculate again...
210 avek00 : Proof positive that the "New Delta", megacarrier though it may be, is STILL an also-ran in the airline business. And more to the point, the entire avi
211 commavia : Excerpts: The partners will file for antitrust immunity with the U.S. Department of Transportation as soon as this week. Pending regulatory approval,
212 MaverickM11 : At NRT it definitely is #3 That was bound to happen whether JL chose AA, or DL, or a flying cockroach. Don't worry, that can and will still be the li
213 MAH4546 : JAL will be hosting a press conference Tuesday afternoon in Tokyo (so about 3-4 hours from now) to make the AA deal offical.
214 Peanuts : Two very contradictory sentences. Make up your mind. DL had no choice but to pursue this opportunity for all it's worth. To not have done so would ha
215 BigGSFO : Good for oneworld, AA, et al. I am glad it ultimately ruled this way. Delta will be just fine in the long run. They have demonstrated resilience and c
216 Post contains images MaverickM11 :    They couldn't have asked for a better opportunity. I'm frankly surprised it didn't go their way but that's water under the bridge. You'd think a
217 Alitalia744 : Dude, get off the horse, unless you enjoy riding it. Seriously, your posts contribute no forward-moving action to this or any thread about Delta. Rel
218 Post contains images scbriml : If this thread cannot be kept on topic and civilised, there seems little point in leaving it open to further discussion. Play nicely now!   
219 Post contains images kiwiandrew : Well , I think it might just be time for me to admit : I got it wrong !    I really did not think that JL would be able to go against the behind th
220 Centrair : If true, then we shall see very soon. Also if true, AA and OneWorld will still need to up efforts to expand their Asian network, create more inter-po
221 MAH4546 : If JL-BA apply for ATI, this might necessitate the termination of JL-AF's relationship. Somebody more verse in the technicalities of how ATI works in
222 FlyDreamliner : Fantastic for AA. Keeping their alliance without have to pony up cash is a great deal. JAL certainly has an uphill battle though - with costs, pensio
223 Post contains images Jacobin777 : We're arguing on semantics now....  That beings said, I've given enough examples as to how the NRT-MIA route could be flown with a decent payload (y
224 klkla : Delta is an "also-ran" in the airline business?!?!?!?!? LOL... The biggest airline in the industry is an also-ran. Seriously, Delta was approached by
225 FL787 : UA/CO/NH have to be happy with how this all turned out. Like others have said, losing JL isn't as big of a blow to DL as losing JL would have been to
226 MAH4546 : Actually, AA does. Currently they have five "free" 777s and a few free 763s too. AA can add two new trans-Pacific routes tomorrow if AA wanted to, an
227 klkla : I wasn't aware of that, but it's interesting because if they have all that extra capacity and haven't added any trans-Pacific flights it's unlikely t
228 commavia : "Much weaker?" Man - this is really getting comical. The only U.S. flights JAL will be cutting will be flights to Hawaii. I highly doubt that any of
229 BNAFlyer : I can't believe I sat here and read all 205 posts (wonder how many were added since I started?). If DL is an "also ran" as stated by avek00, then the
230 MAH4546 : AA leased out capacity to the military on a trooper carrier contract that runs through September. I should correct myself when I said "tomorrow," I m
231 cws818 : Well in terms of market share, this really shouldn't surprise you, since AA's F/J/Y 772s are lower-capacity. Are you talking about NW or DL? You say
232 LDVAviation : No, it never was. Long ago, even before UA thought about ATI with Lufthansa, BA saw an opportunity to "takeover" what at the time was a financially-w
233 avek00 : With all due respect, this is not true. The deep irony underlying the AA/DL Battle of JAL is that even though Delta has the larger Japan presence of
234 cjpark : I think you are talking about me. I am no fan of JAL. I did say it would be a wash if JAL left One World too. Even though they are staying in the all
235 Jacobin777 : Fortunately for DL however, it does have planes capable of flying to locations well past NRT-i.e. such as HKG, etc. DL wouldn't have to "bet the comp
236 Post contains images ocracoke : For real? I need to prove something to you?   First off, this is going to be next to impossible, because many posts have either been e
237 Post contains images Norcal773 : I am surprised you actually admit to this now that JL have said they won't bolt which is contrary to your statements when they were supposed to be bo
238 LAXdude1023 : You know, this sort of stuff happens from people from all airlines. Just let it go.
239 777STL : It's funny how butt hurt some of the DL fanboys are here. Absolutely amusing. Oh, and this judgement absolutely confirms why I no longer come here loo
240 Centrair : True true. There are unused slots to China but that is because though the Chinese economy is booming, the mobility of the masses is still limited by
241 Post contains images DeltaGuy767 : First off let me begin by offering my congratulations to AA and OneWorld for retaining JL as an alliance member. No doubt that it was deemed by those
242 ha763 : All indications have been pointing to no change for Hawaii. JAL has been privately stressing the importance of maintaining service to Hawaii. If anyt
243 MAH4546 : Took me to task? That's funny. I gave no contradiction. You conveniently ignored my response to when you "took me to task" because I showed you how,
244 Post contains images Jacobin777 :   ....I've always stated AA would need some serious Plan "B" if JL left. I don't think that's changed from my comments. Smart alec   
245 Centrair : And most likely the 787 would be doing something better than Japan-HNL. When JL purchased the 787, one route slated was the return of NGO-LAX. This w
246 Post contains links MAH4546 : Press conference at 4:30PM JST, which is about 45 minutes from now. http://www.lse.co.uk/FinanceNews.asp...f_on_overseas_alliance_at_0730_GMT And now,
247 Post contains links kiwiandrew : Here it is officially http://press.jal.co.jp/en/release/201002/001458.html Tokyo, February 9, 2010: Today, Japan Airlines (JAL) announced the decision
248 Post contains links MAH4546 : American Airlines' press release: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...in-oneworld-alliance-83866357.html Maybe AA really did have it in the bag the
249 SKY1 : Well, at the end it is not only a good news for JL/AA/oneworld but it's a good news for balanced markets, competition and for the passengers. I'm glad
250 Post contains links ha763 : I know, that is why I said this in the JAL Sending 744's To VCV (by 71Zulu Feb 2 2010 in Civil Aviation) thread: Actually, now that I think about it,
251 evomutant : "American and all its oneworld partners, and in particular British Airways and Qantas, look forward to working with JAL to create an even stronger par
252 airbuseric : Amen! JL should indeed focus on the world. And they still don't do that. If they don't change their businesses soon, JAL deserves it not to survive.
253 Centrair : You mean stop listening to the government, right? I guess it goes both ways. Qantas, BA, JL, and CX can be very protective. They seem like couples wh
254 airbuseric : Yes of course. The Japanese government but also JCAB,... both parties damage this airline a lot!
255 WorldTraveler : This topic has been one of the longest running a.net soap operas.... board volume will die down substantially after a couple weeks.... the industry be
256 cws818 : It is not meaningless, however.
257 commavia : I will say this: now that it's official, this is very good news for AA. If AA can get antitrust immunity and joint ventures secured with AA-IB, and JL
258 BNAFlyer : Is JAL parking all of it's 744's? If so, am I correct that neither Japanese carrier will fly the 744? I believe neither has ordered one of the big hea
259 AAL0616 : As Winston Churchill said "in victory, magnaminity." Now that "the fat lady has sung," it is interesting to note the various reactions so far. It take
260 avek00 : This has not yet been borne out in reality, as most of Delta's TPAC expansion attempts in the past few years have failed (in particular, the idea tha
261 WorldTraveler : not terribly meaningful doesn't = meaningless.... there is a scale involved.... the Pacific is still a very fractured market; obviously these moves w
262 Alitalia744 : Congrats to AA and JAL in continuing to leverage their longstanding partnership as a base for positive future growth. Best of luck to all carriers, AA
263 JAL : It's official! Congrats to JAL and OneWorld for the decision!
264 WorldTraveler : once again, complete denial of reality. AA is hovering w/ moving into 3rd place on the Atlantic - more than 50% smaller than DL even before the NW me
265 iliriBDL : I'm surprised at their decision, hopefully it works out for both JL and AA. Good luck.
266 avek00 : I'm fully aware of this, and I'm quite confident that DTW-HKG, at least, will fail in true Delta tradition.
267 Post contains links panamair : Indeed. It is interesting to note that many, including the JAL team, believe that Delta would have been the better long-term choice; however, they ch
268 Jacobin777 : Given the commanding lead DL has over AA TPAC, it was fairly obvious DL was bringing more to the table. The goal now for OneWorld and especially AA i
269 MoltenRock : Compared to other US airlines perhaps, but that's not saying much. The US legacies are a bit like a group of homeless bums sitting around a trash fir
270 Post contains images MaverickM11 : That's incorrect. UA is 20% bigger by revenue as recently as 2009 Q4. He's right. The ATL expansion was dropped, followed by the NRT buildup that was
271 STT757 : Maybe now JAL will move from T1 to AA's T8 at JFK, brining that facility (T 1) that much closer to becoming an all Skyteam facility, I don't see LH mo
272 CODC10 : I realize that you qualified your statement, but DL is down 6.4% YOY in ASMs from 1/09 to 1/10. That's with DTW-PVG, SEA-PEK, LAX-SYD, and JFK-NRT ad
273 Post contains images mayor : You mean before or after AA threatened JAL??? Seems to me that JAL has done nothing more than succumb to those threats. Once again, we hear from the
274 Post contains images Peanuts : To be so heavily focused on the short term, as I suspect JAL is at this time, things must be really, and I mean REALLY bad at JAL. When US carriers h
275 STT757 : From where though, SEA, LAX?..
276 avek00 : Of course things are REALLY bad at JAL. The Japanese are FAR more culturally adverse to bankruptcy than Westerners, meaning that JAL filed because th
277 Peanuts : Yes, a combination of the two. SEA will benefit from the DL/NW merger more and more I believe. I also think AS's fortunes will rise even more. They c
278 panamair : Of those three, only SIN is even remotely "premium" in terms of J cabin demand, but the market for nonstops to the US would be too small for another
279 United1 : UA is larger then DL across the Pacific in Revenue, ASMs and RSMs....Revenue was Q4 2009 the rest are from January traffic results. DL thinks its the
280 Post contains links milemaster : From this thread: American Warns Of Fight If JAL Switches Allegiance (by DL Widget Head Jan 21 2010 in Civil Aviation)#161 FAIL.
281 MAH4546 : I guess AS didn't get that memo. AS confirmed at their most recent conference call that it will continue its strong AS relationship, and in the third
282 avek00 : Shanghai Airlines is a member of Star Alliance that cooperates with its partner carriers. Nothing has been announced to indicate it has ANY intention
283 United1 : Or what will happen with MU....UA and NH are both in discussions with them about joining Star when they merge with FM. Doesn't CA (A Star Alliance Me
284 avek00 : SQ wants to own a piece of China Eastern, too.
285 BigGSFO : Sure they can. They are in a good position to partner with both DL and AA. There is no compelling reason why they need to leave one for the other, no
286 Byrdluvs747 : LOL. Looking through that thread, there are so many funny Deltoid quotes.
287 mayor : I don't think AA did anything special to get this done other than threaten JAL. BTW, the AA supporters are just as guilty of jumping the gun as were
288 LAXdude1023 : Who knows why JL choose the way they did. It doesnt matter. Its over and done with. I highly doubt it was because AA made threats. I mean seriously,
289 LDVAviation : AA's history tells us that when they want to win they do. Here are three examples. At Miami, even with the purchase of Eastern's LatinAm assets, AA b
290 mayor : They're breaking ground, this spring. If AA had failed in their bid, don't you think making those statements would have been stupid? Why make such th
291 CODC10 : On a secure walkway between T3 and T4? Have I missed the announcement of a larger expansion?
292 ssides : I'd love to see it. Although it's a remote chance, it's still probably DFW's best chance to see passenger 747 service again.
293 MAH4546 : I personally think we will see it, but with JAL parking its 747s, it will be a 773. This will add some important capacity in the market and free up a
294 LAXdude1023 : I doubt they would send a 747 here. Probably the 773. If AA and JL get ATI, both need to serve DFW. Its certainly not a sure thing, but its not a rem
295 mogandoCI : and there's the whole SUCCESS of trying to make SJC as the "airport of silicon valley" against UA in SFO back in the dot-com era with flights to NRT,
296 United1 : I think we all missed the announcement...
297 DFWEagle : I'd say its pretty certain that JAL will take over one DFW-NRT flight if they get ATI. The timing of the second flight means that AA has to park a 77
298 CODC10 : It must be the Delta Psychic Friends Network that puts forth all the rumors of "big things to come" that so many seem to subscribe to...
299 Post contains images avek00 : I agree 110% with your observations. Furthermore, the actions we've seen to date from Delta's primary USA-based legacy competitors - American, United
300 Post contains images mayor : A little bird told me that DL wants to take over Terminal 4, tear down Terminal 3, rehab Terminal 2 and connect it to an expanded Terminal 4. You did
301 oneworld77 : Haha!! Skyteam shmeiteam. All of those who predicted the end of ONEworld...hope there are lots of hats being eaten. Is this the end of skyteam? Aeroli
302 United1 : That has been discussed, and in the incredibly early planning stages, for years.....whether it happens or not is completely dependent on the PANYNJ t
303 Post contains images CODC10 : No, I heard it from Miss Cleo!   Of course DL wants to do something like this, but where will the airlines from T4 go, unless it is expanded first?
304 Post contains links FFlyerWorld : Let's get back on topic ... In a couple years - JAL may have other "intentions" ... http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyl...hives/2010/02/jal_picks_ame
305 BNAFlyer : Very mature post there. This whole pissing contest makes all the "fanboys" (I hate that childish term) of BOTH airlines sound like crying babies. It'
306 United1 : So who wants to bet that within a few days we hear an announcement from DL/KE regarding a JV including both the ICN and NRT hubs. I think long term we
307 MAH4546 : If JAL and AA get ATI, its pretty much sealed. ATI involves sharing of trade secrets and intellectual property. The unwinding of ATI would be extreme
308 Peanuts : I'm a deltoid now? Highly interesting assumption. Even most neutral observers would've leaned towards a JAL/DL partnership. It's Japan that decided t
309 MAH4546 : ATI is not profit-sharing. However, if Star and OW decide to eventually profit share, the split is based on a formula that is proportional to capacit
310 Incitatus : Based on your flag you could be a Kayelemoid. I have seen neutral comment both ways. I have also read many false assumptions on alliances on a.net, s
311 SKY1 : Yes, Indeed! That "article" seems subsidized by Delta, it's a joke. I wonder how influential DL is with the media.
312 WorldTraveler : please file a complaint w/ the DOT against DL for false advertising..... like yesterday! problem is that your assessment is based on a static world f
313 SKY1 : But the Japanese Govt. will not allow a hypothetical JAL's demise. Never. Under no circumstances.
314 Peanuts : Assuming full JV's are in place: When you share limited capacity (slots, number of aircraft and aircraft size) with others there will always be a for
315 DFWEagle : AA and JL plan to enter into a joint business agreement which includes revenue/cost sharing as soon as they are awarded ATI. This is expected to happ
316 MAH4546 : Thank you for the information. The deadline for the Haneda applications is actually tomorrow, but DOT is never very strict with deadlines for applica
317 LJ : According to Skyteam CEO Leo van WIjk the signing of the agreement between MU and Skyteam has been postponed untill "this year" (was scheduled to tak
318 crosswinds21 : No...if anything, they figured thay they will attain the best results for the company as a result of being conservtive. The claim is that they didn't
319 United1 : And you think postponing it for a year is a good sign for Skyteam? Or that MU sees an opportunity to ally itself with the largest alliance. I don't s
320 cws818 : Why the expression of sympathy?
321 oneworld77 : Yes it is done. And does not include LoserTeam!!! I'm enjoying the gloating after all the 'SkyFlot' team have put OW supporters through. And I'm enjo
322 BigGSFO : I wonder what this could mean for DL's PDX-NRT. I'm probably getting ahead of myself but if their plan B means more of a NRT overfly or a shift to ICN
323 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ....While UA is a tad larger than AA in ORD, to call it a "perpetual stepsister" is a bit stretching it. AA @ ORD is stronger than UA in many routes
324 klkla : I respectfully disagree. It's not a failure if a deal you didn't even initialize fails to materialize and the end result is status quo. Delta is no w
325 OA412 : Then you clearly didn't read any of the arguments put forth in the different threads, nor did you read JLs comments indicating that DL would have bee
326 Post contains images kiwiandrew : AC = Air Canada CA = Air China Though in any case I believe that both AC and CA are firmly committed to *A . CA has strong relationships with a large
327 Post contains links LipeGIG : Too long. Please follow on the Continuation of this thread and we again ask all to please avoid off-topic discussions. This thread is now closed. Seco
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