MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 30438 posts, RR: 77 Posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks ago) and read 5903 times:
So Monday it was JAL; today the Delta-US Airways swap slot; tomorrow Haneda applications are due; and Thursday?
Both Wall Street Journal and Dow Jones are now reporting - buried in other articles - that DOT is expected to rule on BA/AA/IB this week.
Quote: The Transportation Department is expected this week to decide whether to grant long-sought antitrust approval for transatlantic flights to the Oneworld global airline alliance, including British Airways and American Airlines, a unit of AMR Corp. (AMR). The U.S. Department of Justice offered an opinion that giving antitrust approval, which would allow the airlines to form closer business relationships, would hamper competition and be harmful to consumers.
Approval is a given, but how much freedom the alliance is given is a question mark.
Macsog6 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 425 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5719 times:
Like JL picking AA and OneWorld over DL, I am beginning to think that ATI approval for AA/BA/IB is a bit like the tooth fairy ~ it is a great concept, but it is just never going to happen.
ElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1499 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5663 times:
This a good week for the American fan club.
If it's approved this week, how long until the alliance goes into effect, say, me being able to earn on BA TATL flights from the US or an AA codeshare on BA TATL flights?
Seatback From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 470 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5432 times:
If AA/BA are forced to carve-out, wouldn't that be a small price to pay? BA must have hundreds of slots, what's giving up 5 or 10 or more in the scheme of things?
LAXdude1023 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 6083 posts, RR: 28 Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5386 times:
Quoting Seatback (Reply 8): If AA/BA are forced to carve-out, wouldn't that be a small price to pay? BA must have hundreds of slots, what's giving up 5 or 10 or more in the scheme of things?
My sentiments exactly.
The only route I can say for sure will probably be carved out is DFW-LHR. Maybe a few slots on top of that.
Other than that, I cant say for sure.
Next flights: DFW-GRU-SDU-EZE-DFW on AA/JJ/EK in J!
MasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 4503 posts, RR: 8 Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5347 times:
I think Oneworld will get 98% of what they want. DOT has to be consistent with the other alliance rulings. The DL/US slot swap order says, however, that they will be more rigid about preserving domestic competition.
skyone From Mexico, joined Feb 2001, 397 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5306 times:
Wow, can´t wait to hear the final saying!!! If AA/BA and IB get it, I will most definitely be a happy flyingmen, as finally I will take a US-Europe flight with BA and get full miles in J on my AAdvantage account and also will be able to use my miles to get J seats with BA from MIA to LHR. Fingers crossed, as I have been waiting for the resulution...
ken777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 6125 posts, RR: 4 Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5251 times:
Both airlines made it clear last time that excessive conditions, compared to other ATI deals, was unacceptable.
If the price is too high then AA may well reject it again, in a very public manner. Any government demands needs to be considered by the public to be equal treatment when compared to the other ATI arrangements.
apodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3386 posts, RR: 7 Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4347 times:
The only opposition to this I have heard publicly has been from SRB because of Virgin Atlantic's presence in the US/UK market. Quite frankly, I think SRB just likes hearing himself speak and even if this does get approved, it won't have a huge effect on the VS bottom line. For one thing, VS is mostly geared toward O and D on both ends of where they fly, even though they have codeshared with US carriers before. The AA/BA deal is about both airlines funneling passengers through connections on both sides of the pond to allow them to serve many more destinations. It's true that they are going to have a lion share of the LHR slots combined if it gets approved, but its not going to be as dominating as DL and AF are in CDG, or the Star Alliance is in FRA, or even DL and KL in AMS. The other thing to note is that the carriers use different terminals on both ends of the pond in most places, which means connections through these places aren't as smooth as some of the other alliance connections. About the only place on the US side where there is a common terminal is DFW, but of course its also AA's biggest hub too.
FlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 1832 posts, RR: 4 Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4229 times:
Quoting apodino (Reply 37): The only opposition to this I have heard publicly has been from SRB because of Virgin Atlantic's presence in the US/UK market. Quite frankly, I think SRB just likes hearing himself speak and even if this does get approved, it won't have a huge effect on the VS bottom line.
Oh whatever the outcome the bearded one will not be happy. He kept dragging up LHR-DFW up as an example of how AA/BA would dominate a route, yet how is it different to other routes that only have one carrier on it? Before BA started LHR-LAS there was only one carrier on the LON-VAS market and that was VS! If it was a highly profitable route VS would have started LON-DFW already, and before open skies allowed it to move to LHR we heard rumours many times that it was a poor performer for BA.
If I were at VS I'd be more concerned about the announcement from CO that they are upping LHR-EWR to 4x daily this Summer and 5x daily this Winter. With the ATI in place between CO/UA/AC too, CO may not see much use in continuing its codeshare with VS too much longer - leaving VS with no partner across the Atlantic, and CO offer a biggish chunk of seats for sale on a lot of those flights. Why put passengers to IAD, SFO or LAX on VS when you're now partnered with UA? Is it worth staying with VS for some seats to MIA, JFK and BOS?
CO's announcement of its frequency increases ahead of any announcement of the ATI decision for AA/BA is a good move I think. It shows competition is there, and I think is a move by CO to start trying to get some corporate contracts. DL (and Skyteam) risk losing out here with two flights a day still. If ATI is approved with say a 12/18 month carveout on the JFK route then I think DL will have to move quickly to try build up some JFK-LHR market share.
Outside of this, ATI is as much about being able to use the hubs on either side effectively as actual co-operation across the Atlantic. When you look at Skyteam and Star you've therefore got to wonder if the DOT may consider the competition benefits of the third major alliance being able to compete with the other two alongside the impact on the point to point impact of flights to/from LHR. London is a competitive market, so granting ATI isn't going to suddenly see AA/BA able to shut out those competitors.
ORD is one route mentioned for a carveout, but UA has a significant presence there and in hub terms for the region you also have DL with flights from MSP and DTW (with no competitor on either!) to LHR. Likewise DFW is mentioned, but in the region you have HOU and ATL as major Southern hubs for CO (Star) and DL (Skyteam).
The two markets where competition is limited, and this to a daily VS flight to each, is MIA and BOS. Maybe there will be a carveout here, but I cannot see why other destinations would require it.
SA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 2806 posts, RR: 24 Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1431 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW HEAD MODERATOR
A fair amount of posts were deleted from this thread for various forum rule violations. Please stick to the topic at hand which is the expected ruling on AA-BA-IB's anti-trust immunity.
Rgds
SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud
PRAirbus From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2005, 930 posts, RR: 2 Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1300 times:
AA/BA/IB deserve immunity; the others have it. If VS is crying for market dominance; I suggest they start flying LHR-DFW if that's such a big deal. If VS is not flying to DFW is perhaps because they would not make any profits on that market. VS should merge with another carrier; BMI perhaps to acquire more slots and open more routes. It would be unfair to prevent AA/BA/IB when other alliances dominate Europe's major hubs. If VS is complaining so much, why don't they join an alliance too? VS is a niche carrier; not a major player. Their brand/service are top-notch but they cannot pretend to compete with the big guys on all markets.
WorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1202 times:
Quoting PRAirbus (Reply 16): AA/BA/IB deserve immunity; the others have it.
that is precisely the wrong reason to tell the DOT. The DOT will award ATI/JV to AA/BA or not, with or without restrictions, based on their abilty to meet the thresholds and requirements for market access.
Virgin is a well oiled PR machine and is quite effective at making its point... there's a reason why the rivalry between the two is so strong and it is because VS has indeed limited BA's ability to move forward w/ some of its plans; they have more than enough at stake that they will use whatever process they can - including the US gov't - in order to protect their own (VS') interests
MasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 4503 posts, RR: 8 Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1027 times:
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 17): Quoting PRAirbus (Reply 16):
AA/BA/IB deserve immunity; the others have it.
that is precisely the wrong reason to tell the DOT.
Precedent pretty much drives our legal and regulatory systems. It is a time-honored and generally effective argument to make.
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