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Why No Asian Carriers To Houston?  
User currently offlineboeingfever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 53
Posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 7752 times:

I was curious as to why no Asian carrier that flies n/s to IAH?

I know that The Medical Center is a hive for students coming from Asia to learn and become doctors and with three colleges that offer major programs I was thinking at least one carrier would fly daily.

IAH-ICN 6138 nm
IAH-HKG 7252 nm
IAH-PVG 6581 nm
IAH-PEK 6252 nm
IAH-TPE 6899 nm

All these cities are easily reachable by a 77E or 77W.

Note: I understand CO flies to NRT and SQ flies from DME.


Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
61 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRyanair!!! From Australia, joined Mar 2002, 4757 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 7737 times:

Quoting boeingfever777 (Thread starter):
I know that The Medical Center is a hive for students coming from Asia to learn and become doctors and with three colleges that offer major programs I was thinking at least one carrier would fly daily.

I don't think this is reason enough. Students are notoriously penny pinching.

I believe you forgot Emirates and Qatar as well.



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User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15810 posts, RR: 27
Reply 2, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7681 times:

Quoting boeingfever777 (Thread starter):
I know that The Medical Center is a hive for students coming from Asia to learn and become doctors and with three colleges that offer major programs

Universities and the like are not huge drivers of air travel.

My guess is that the demand can be met via the CO flight to NRT and relatively easy connections in other cities. Of course a lot of the larger companies in Houston are energy related (though this seems to be becoming less true) so traditional oil destinations are going to be heavy with high yielding pax, and few such destinations are in east Asia.



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User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7641 times:

I th5ought SQ flew there or am I mistaken?

User currently offlineweb500sjc From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 749 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7630 times:
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My guess is that NH codeshares with CO, and JL goes to DFW. Seeing as CO has a hub there and has the metal, there is no reason for NH to go there, and JL would have to rely soley on O&D in a *A mega hub, probaly better to just conecton AA if you want JL.


Boiler Up!
User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4029 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7586 times:
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Quoting ANstar (Reply 3):

yes, but there non-stop service is to DME, then continues on to SIN.

I am surprised that no other Asian carrier has entered the IAH market. Houston has a large asian community and can be very well seen on all westcoast flights b/t 2pm - 9pm that are connecting to the late night asia flights from SEA/SFO/LAX. With the new codeshare with OZ, it wouldn't surprise me 100% if they didn't start a ICN-IAH flight.



okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently onlinethomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 4013 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7553 times:

Well we did have CI for a few years, but the poor loads combined with a stop in SEA, killed the route. PK also serviced IAH around the same time, due to poor marketing on PK's part (few of their target market even knew of the flight), this service was doomed. NH is rumored to be showing an interest in servicing IAH, but this is only a rumor.

Thomas

[Edited 2010-02-09 19:06:45]


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User currently offlineboeingfever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 53
Reply 7, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7424 times:

Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 1):

Although technically in Asia I consider QR & EK Middle Eastern Carriers.

You can't penny pinch Rice University, University of Texas, or Baylor College of Medicine.


Quoting ANstar (Reply 3):

I clearly stated SQ flies there and stated n/s service.

Also why no India carrier?



Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlineCO787EWR From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7416 times:

Quoting boeingfever777 (Reply 7):

Also why no India carrier?

Well if your flying CO... you can do IAH->EWR->BOM/DEL...


User currently offlineAirportPlan From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 469 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7393 times:

Gate availability is a problem at IAH. The airport had plans to add additional gates on a new pier to be built on International Terminal D. CO has squashed these plans.

User currently offlineAznMadSci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3699 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7247 times:

Quoting boeingfever777 (Thread starter):
I was curious as to why no Asian carrier that flies n/s to IAH?

As others have said, any one of these 3 Star Asian carriers may have interest in IAH, along with strong codesharing agreements with CO: NH, OZ, and CA. In terms of when any or all of these carriers start IAH is up to the powers that be.

Quoting boeingfever777 (Thread starter):
I know that The Medical Center is a hive for students coming from Asia to learn and become doctors and with three colleges that offer major programs I was thinking at least one carrier would fly daily.

Yes it's a hive for students either becoming doctors, nurses, pharmacists, biomedical scientists, but it's seasonal travel. Those visiting the Medical Center for doctor visits and treatments would contribute more than the seasonal travels of students. Furthermore, many international students rarely travel back home unless warranted because they focus on their studies and ultimately remain in this country.

Quoting boeingfever777 (Reply 7):
You can't penny pinch Rice University, University of Texas, or Baylor College of Medicine.

You wanna bet? How much disposable would such international students have after paying the expensive tuition attending one of these institutions? Then if you are working at such institutions, many of them penny pinch like no tomorrow!

Quoting boeingfever777 (Reply 7):
Also why no India carrier?

Well, many of the Indian airlines are having trouble with ULH routes to the US. Plus EK and QR, as well as LH and BA are taking a good chunk of passengers heading to South Asia.

Quoting AirportPlan (Reply 9):
Gate availability is a problem at IAH. The airport had plans to add additional gates on a new pier to be built on International Terminal D. CO has squashed these plans.

Oh? I hadn't heard of CO squashing plans against the D extension, but then there isn't much going on with other projects at IAH other than the new check in area at C and the final extension of TerminaLink to A. Otherwise, D doesn't completely become full unless any of the early international flights arrive rather late. There's roughly 8 widebody capable gates at D (D4-D12), while AM and TA could be transferred to D1-D3. In terms of ticketing, there are 2 sections where one side could serve Star carriers while the other side non-Star international carriers. Now if they could update a few eating places instead of doing the manageable hike to either E or C-North for eating.



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineafterburner From Indonesia, joined Jun 2005, 1216 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7207 times:

Quoting boeingfever777 (Reply 7):
Although technically in Asia I consider QR & EK Middle Eastern Carriers.

Maybe you should rephrase the topic title to "Why No Far-Eastern Carriers To Houston?"  


User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4029 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7165 times:
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Quoting AirportPlan (Reply 9):
Gate availability is a problem at IAH

not if the timing of the flights was a morning arrival with a late morning departure.



okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7757 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7130 times:

Quoting AznMadSci (Reply 10):
As others have said, any one of these 3 Star Asian carriers may have interest in IAH, along with strong codesharing agreements with CO: NH, OZ, and CA. In terms of when any or all of these carriers start IAH is up to the powers that be.

In my opinion if one does, it will be NH. IAH-NRT could use more capacity especially if its connecting to a hub in Asia. With ATI for CO/UA/NH, it seems like it would be a logical fit.

I dont suspect OZ will show up. If KE didnt come to IAH when CO and KE were partners, I doubt OZ will show up since they are much smaller and OZ isnt in the ATI application.

As for IAH-China, I would see CO doing that before CA.

With ATI coming up for AA/JL and CO/NH, maybe we will see both Japanese carriers makeing a debut in Texas!  



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1783 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7054 times:

Quoting ANstar (Reply 3):
I th5ought SQ flew there or am I mistaken?

Yes, but not directly from Asia. Another SQ 5th freedom operation....

Quoting boeingfever777 (Thread starter):
Note: I understand CO flies to NRT and SQ flies from DME.
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 13):
With ATI coming up for AA/JL and CO/NH, maybe we will see both Japanese carriers makeing a debut in Texas!
 Although in the case of IAH-NRT, there's a third player (UA) within the ATI who breadth of flights (ORD, SFO, SEA) could dilute a lot of the stateside connecting traffic that IAH may otherwise get.


User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7319 posts, RR: 85
Reply 15, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6922 times:
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I'd love to see a *A carrier enter IAH from the Far East. CO isn't an Asian carrier, but I could definitely see expansion to Asia from IAH once they bring the 787 to their fleet.

Quoting Ryanair!!! (Reply 1):
I don't think this is reason enough. Students are notoriously penny pinching.

Mom and Dad write the checks, not the kids. There is no evidence to support your claim.

Quoting AznMadSci (Reply 10):
How much disposable would such international students have after paying the expensive tuition attending one of these institutions?

See above.


User currently offlinehuaiwei From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 1117 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6859 times:

Quoting boeingfever777 (Reply 7):

Although technically in Asia I consider QR & EK Middle Eastern Carriers.

But the Middle East is in Asia, technically or otherwise! 
Quoting OP3000 (Reply 14):
Yes, but not directly from Asia. Another SQ 5th freedom operation...

You mean not "non-stop" right? It is still a direct flight.



It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1783 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6842 times:

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 16):
Quoting OP3000 (Reply 14):
Yes, but not directly from Asia. Another SQ 5th freedom operation...

You mean not "non-stop" right? It is still a direct flight.

Of course. Do you know when they launched the SIN-DME-IAH route by chance?


User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 18, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6615 times:

Quoting boeingfever777 (Reply 7):
You can't penny pinch Rice University, University of Texas, or Baylor College of Medicine.

Okay, let's say the students and their parents have unlimited money.

How many students are there? How many round trips to they make each month? You are going to need a hundred to two hundred people every day to make a flight worthwile. I simply do not believe that are that many students from a single Asian destination in the Houston area.

Quoting AznMadSci (Reply 10):
Those visiting the Medical Center for doctor visits and treatments would contribute more than the seasonal travels of students.

From everything I read in Dallas and Houston papers the travel is in the opposite direction, especially for India. US citizens traveling to India for medical care.

Heck, my old corporate dental plan offered to pay for my flight to Mexico and hotel if I would have some dental work done there rather than in the US.


User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5201 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6575 times:

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 18):
From everything I read in Dallas and Houston papers the travel is in the opposite direction, especially for India. US citizens traveling to India for medical care.

That is definitely not accurate. The Texas Medical Center is the world's largest. With that said, I do not know if that would neccessitate flights to any one destination. However, NH has said they are looking at expansion to IAH - more than likely with the 787s; their 77Ws I think are too large for the route.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineBNAFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6565 times:

Quoting FXramper (Reply 15):
Mom and Dad write the checks, not the kids. There is no evidence to support your claim.

The same premise. Do you have any idea what it costs for out-of-state (not to mention out-of country) tuition? Just because students come from abroad to study in the U.S. doesn't mean their families are made of money. College is s financial stretch for most families, regardless of where they are from.


User currently offlineboeingfever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 53
Reply 21, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6565 times:

Quoting OP3000 (Reply 17):
Of course. Do you know when they launched the SIN-DME-IAH route by chance?

Began March 20, 2008.

The medical district was an example. I know Houston has large number of immigrants from Asia and the 2nd largest Vietnamese American in the United States. Also I'm sure there is enough business travel to alot 1 carrier to try the routing.



Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7757 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6431 times:

Quoting boeingfever777 (Reply 21):
I know Houston has large number of immigrants from Asia and the 2nd largest Vietnamese American in the United States.

Not to nitpick, but actually Houston has the 3rd largest Vietnamese community in the US by metro area. I have some numbers on that actually (rounded off as of 2008):

Los Angeles/Orange County: 230,000
San Francisco/San Jose: 155,000
Metro Houston: 82,000
Dallas/Fort Worth: 74,000
Washington DC: 66,000

As for Total Asians by Metro area:

Los Angeles: 2,118,359
New York: 1,782,421
San Francisco/San Jose: 1,527,771
Honolulu: 543,423
Chicago: 523,309
Washington DC: 477,503
Seattle: 387,113
San Diego: 346,632
Houston: 324,012
Dallas/Fort Worth: 300,018
Boston: 274,975
Philadelphia: 262,856
Sacramento: 260,161

Of course Vietnamese VFR traffic is very low yield and there are few business ties between the US and Vietnam. Hence why it would be hard to get a flight to work based on that.

[Edited 2010-02-10 07:19:54]


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User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8573 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6229 times:

Quoting boeingfever777 (Thread starter):
I was curious as to why no Asian carrier that flies n/s to IAH?

QR, EK, SQ. sounds like 3 Asian carriers to me. Yes, SQ has a stop in Russia but there's no plane capable of flying IAH-SIN non-stop. It is pretty much a direct route to Asia. So what's your definition of "no Asian carrier"?  


User currently offlinessides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 24, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6187 times:

VFR traffic to the Far East isn't going to drive traffic to Houston. The ethnic populations may be somewhat large, maybe even the largest in the country by some standards, but that traffic is still too low-yielding to drive a market like Houston.

For one thing, Asian carriers typically focus on the West Coast in their US markets. You see lots of them at SEA, SFO and LAX. But other than those three airports, you're pretty hard pressed to find Asian carriers in the US. For example:

DFW has KE, that's it (although we're hoping to get JL back).
MIA doesn't have any Asian carrier.
ORD has a fair share, but that's because it's ORD. Same for JFK.
ATL has KE, that's it (and primarily due to SkyTeam connections).
BOS doesn't have any Asian carrier.
DEN doesn't have any Asian carrier.
PHL doesn't have any Asian carrier.
IAD has ANA, KE and Air India.

IAH is doing pretty well with SQ, and it had China Airlines (as well as PIA) for a while -- but neither could make it work. Houston is a great business city, but its ties are primarily to Europe and the Middle East. That's why there aren't more Asian carriers.



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
25 AznMadSci : I work and interact with many of these students since I work in the heart of the Medical Center. A number of local students may have parents that wil
26 RFields5421 : Yes it is well known around the world. And the various hospitals in the region do a lot of good for people in need around the world with major proble
27 thenoflyzone : JL - aint gonna happen NH - it's a long shot. Besides, when is the last time they expanded in North America, like 1999? I think NH will serve Canada b
28 LAXdude1023 : Im meant that JL will probably serve DFW. If JL/AA get ATI, JL will replace the 2nd DFW-NRT flight. Thats almost certain. NH showing up at IAH with a
29 DLPhoenix : Because high yield passengers from India would rather fly from their home airport to DXB or DOH in international J and on to IAH rather than fly dome
30 Post contains images Superfly : Contrary to what many may think, most college students and their families make a huge sacrifice to send their children to college. There may be a sma
31 Flytravel : The Indian foreign students, and one Vietnamese student, I've met came from upper middle-upper backgrounds; different than the typical student that ca
32 boeingfever777 : Yeah 3rd in country... BTW can the 77E even make HAN-IAH with a sufficient payload? Isn't that like 7,600 nm?
33 LAXdude1023 : You could fill the plane no doubt. The yields would be awful if we are trying to fill it with Indian VFR. Thats why carriers like QR and EK are good
34 LAXdude1023 : If they cant make LAX work, why would IAH work?
35 SANAV8R : I think CO would add a Asia flight before another Asian carrier flies to IAH I think probably CO would add a second NRT flight. NRT has plenty of Star
36 Post contains images SATexan : Foreign students especially from India generally tend to travel in December/January or leave the US in May after the Spring semester and come back in
37 CALMSP : questionable only b/c of the lack of w/b equipment and timline of delivery for CO.
38 viscount724 : Technically it is "direct" from Asia. The term "direct" in airline industry terminology includes flights with intermediate stops. And SQ's SIN-IAH-SI
39 Post contains links FlyingSicilian : The Vietnamese community in Houston is large (as noted by several above). In fact Vietnam wants to open a Consulate General in Houston, but the local
40 yellowtail : TA doesn't need to be moved...they are the only carrier at D at IAH at 3am!
41 Post contains images Superfly : Had no idea they pulled out of Los Angeles. No need for the attitude. Besides, I only as if they ever "considered", speaking in past-tense.    Than
42 AznMadSci : And so would DUB!
43 LAXdude1023 : Sorry, I didnt mean to come across that way. VN never showed up at LAX recently though they announced it a couple of times via KIX. DL couldnt even m
44 Superfly : That's ok. It's one of those things that commonly get misinterpreted on the Internet. Interesting. I didn't know that. Doesn't United Airlines still
45 LipeGIG : Economy and Geography help to understand, but do not explain 100% Lets say, Houston is the energy capital of the world, a strong medical center, but
46 LAXdude1023 : Yeah. The HKG-SGN flight is able to work because its close in distance and has 5th freedom rights. It can justify having service from Houston to Oil
47 OP3000 : Thanks for the info. Huh? You're sentence seems to contradict itself. You say it wont dilute, yet you acknowledge potential "pissing matches" between
48 viscount724 : Well it's been that way for decades. If you don't use that definition, how do you differentiate between nonstop flights and those with intermediate s
49 OP3000 : You could do develop a brand new term. But again, you seem to like to delve into technicalities not associated with the topic of the thread.
50 B752OS : Foreign students especially from India generally tend to travel in December/January and leave the US in May after the Spring semester and come back i
51 BNAFlyer : Slightly off topic geographically, but does World Airways still fly M11's to Luanda on behalf of Sonair?
52 Post contains images Flytravel : I already know that, and I agree the Gulf carriers are in the best position for that. But, I'll add those that get the H1B sponsorship right after sc
53 LipeGIG : Exactly. Has to have economic ties to guarantee service when the geography wont help. Yes, Sonair/World Airways still flies IAH-LAD.
54 Flytravel : I'd venture to say BOS would be so close to getting more Europe travel and maybe NRT in some cases, but its slighted by legacies just increasing freq
55 LAXdude1023 : Yeah, 3x weekly.
56 Pbb152 : Atlas Air will begin operating the service on behalf of Sonair this summer (June I believe) with a former Oasis 747-400.
57 SATexan : Hmmm..I dont think so. Houston is closer to two of the largest universities in the country - UT and A&M and also relatively large universities li
58 LAXdude1023 : Actually I think B752OS is right. The Boston Area is home to one of the largest collection of universities in the US. Much moreso than Houston or Dal
59 B752OS : I think so. You have: Boston College, Boston University, Northeastern University, Suffolk University, UMass Boston, Emmanuel College, Wheelock Colleg
60 anonms : I think VN codeshared on the CI flights. Houston and Dallas area have a sizeable Taiwanese population; whenever I've participated in expatriate progr
61 LAXdude1023 : The mayor of Addison (suburb just north of Dallas) is from Taiwan.
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