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Olympic And Aegean Discuss Merger  
User currently offlineCYatUK From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 810 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5418 times:

The news broke through a daily newspaper and were originally discarded as pure rumour however the owner of Olympic (Marfin Investment Group) were quick to announce that initial discussions are indeed taking place between the two carriers to investigate the possibility of future cooperation (which analysts believe can only mean merging of the two and formation of a large carrier).

No idea if this will go forward but will be interesting to see how the discussion evolves.

I still can't find the official announcement but below is a link to Eleutherotypia newspaper reporting on this issue (greek only)

http://www.enet.gr/?i=news.el.oikonomia&id=131122


CY@Uk
33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineoa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27106 posts, RR: 60
Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5397 times:

Heres the link in English. I will believe it when I see it but it does throw up questions on if the Agean name would survive as Olympic would not be ditched, MIG are too strong anyway . It would throw up questions over A3's links with Star etc.. lots of hurdles to overcome. But this is Greece anything is possible.

http://english.capital.gr/News.asp?id=906553


User currently offlineLIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5384 times:

The same happened before with TAP Portugal - Portugalia, Alitalia - AirOne, Air Canada - Canadian Airlines, SN Brussels - Virgin Express .... and so on.
Greece definitely needs a unique stronger player.

[Edited 2010-02-11 03:26:46]

User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4341 posts, RR: 35
Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5347 times:

Doesn't surprise me at all. With their rushed A-320 family acquisitions while they could take cheap Olympic 737-400s and use them for a while, already hinted that they wanted a fleet which is easy to blend in with Aegeans fleet.
Also the new Olympic has a comparible product to Aegean; full service, European and domestic.



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineTobias2702 From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 721 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5347 times:

First of all, a OA/A3 merger might be quite reasonable. The airlines have nearly identical networks, and fleets (Airbus). Greece does not have the size (populationwise) to cater for two airlines offering regional European services. I cannot think of any similar country doing so. There wouldn't even be a monopoly arise, as for domestic services there is still Athens Airways, and international routes are also mostly overlapping with foreign airlines.

What puzzles me is this: Why was OA refounded at all, if now a merger with A3 seems possible or even desired? Does it mean that the new OA is in troubles again, making it apparent that they won't survive? A3 is joining Star Alliance, which is an advantage towards currently unaligned OA (though with the DL codeshare and agreements with AF/KL planned they seem to tend towards SkyTeam). Does LH or any other airlines have a stake in A3, which might fasten the ties with Star for a merged Greek Airline? (edit: and I don't guess the merger will take place before 10 May, the day A3 becomes a Star member).

But let's wait for the news to clarify, there can sometimes be much speculation about what turns out to be a non-event.

Tobias

[Edited 2010-02-11 03:27:36]


PA, AF, UK, BA, AB, DL, LH, FR, BD, A3, EZY, DY //// A319/320/346, B733/735/73G/738/744/763, AT4, 146, CR2, DH4
User currently offlineCYatUK From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 810 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5148 times:

Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 4):
Does LH or any other airlines have a stake in A3, which might fasten the ties with Star for a merged Greek Airline?

Definitely no. LH is only a partner for the time being with no shares in A3.

Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 4):
Why was OA refounded at all, if now a merger with A3 seems possible or even desired? Does it mean that the new OA is in troubles again, making it apparent that they won't survive?

Although noone can be sure about this but I don't think OA is in trouble as the discussion between the two carriers was prompted by a major A3 shareholder and not OA (at least that's what newspapers report)

Reading the reports in a number of newspapers it appears (though not proved) that A3 may be having problems financing their new Airbus fleet and for this reason they have deferred a number of orders hence a merge with OA makes sence.

In any case, even if decided, merger will not happen until 2011 but if it does it is likely (again according to the media) that the Olympic name will be the one to keep with the majority of shares belonging to MIG (current OA owner).

[Edited 2010-02-11 05:37:49]


CY@Uk
User currently offlineCyba From Cape Verde, joined Nov 2005, 208 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5038 times:

OIympic wasn't "re-founded" It was sold by the Greek state to the highest bidder. IIRC, Aegean was in the race but lost out to MIG. Why MIG would want it has always been a mystery to me.

MIG itself has backers who've seen stronger days. It's not as if Dubai has lots of spare cash these days to send more their way as they were during their buying spree. MIG has already off-loaded a retail chain this year and I wouldn't be surprised if they were looking at more opportunities of getting rid of more or perhaps reducing exposure, which might be what's happening here. With the current crisis in Greece which will probably take years to unravel, pax loads can't be healthy and Olympic (and Aegean) must be suffering.

The article talks of MIG holding 25-35% of the merged entity with the rest going to Aegean. This would seem to me to represent the relative strength of each on the market. As for which brand-name would stay, it's anyone's guess. Olympic is still strong, but outside of Greece it's not exactly synonymous with reliability, is it?

I agree with those that believe the next stage in the game is a single player in Greece. Long term, and judging by the outcome in the US, we're probably looking at max 10 carriers in the whole of Europe including low-cost carriers.

This is probably a question of when rather than if.


User currently offlineBNAFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4994 times:

It would be sad if the "Olympic" name went away - it's symbolizes Greece, but then again it certainly doesn't have the most stellar record and the name has become tainted over the years.

User currently offlineATHYEG333 From Greece, joined Jun 2007, 104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4938 times:

Well said Cyba!!! I so agree!!!

A possible merger explains to me why Olympic dropped all Germany destinations from the beginning

while keeping other routes... Maybe Olympic decided to rely on its future partner and its

strong network there!


User currently offlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2386 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4920 times:

IF and only IF this were to happen, would this mean Greece would be in the market again for Long Haul A/C? I agree with what others said about the OA name, however the name Aegean could also fit in as a nice symbol for Greece IMHO..


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19236 posts, RR: 52
Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4911 times:

   - the combined power/dominance of these two carriers in and to and from Greece would be huge. Therefore, for competition reasons it should not, really, be allowed.


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineoa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27106 posts, RR: 60
Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4772 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 10):
Therefore, for competition reasons it should not, really, be allowed.

I disagree it would be great for Greek aviation to have a strong single Greek carrier. There is still plenty of competition on many routes.

Quoting BNAFlyer (Reply 7):
It would be sad if the "Olympic" name went away

It wont the Olympic brand is still a strong brand and since the MIG take over its gone from strength to strength. The service onboard is top class and their Business product is up there with the best in Europe. The fleet is new and they have totally off loaded the old baggage that held the old OA back. MIG are very strong and probably the best company OA could have wished for as its owners. They have turned the company and product around totally.


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19236 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4741 times:

Quoting oa260 (Reply 11):
I disagree.

Of course you disagree.  



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineevomutant From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 503 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4732 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 10):
- the combined power/dominance of these two carriers in and to and from Greece would be huge. Therefore, for competition reasons it should not, really, be allowed

Every man and his dog is flying to the Greek islands from all over Europe (albeit mostly seasonal). And Athens has service from just about every European flag carrier, plus an assortment of othes.


User currently offlineoa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27106 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4713 times:

Quoting evomutant (Reply 13):
And Athens has service from just about every European flag carrier, plus an assortment of othes.

Yes indeed. A-Z list here

http://www.aia.gr/pages.asp?pageid=993&langid=2


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19236 posts, RR: 52
Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4690 times:

Quoting evomutant (Reply 13):
Every man and his dog is flying to the Greek islands from all over Europe (albeit mostly seasonal).

Obviously. But OA and A3 don't operate many such flights, although some people will connect in ATH.

Quoting evomutant (Reply 13):
Athens has service from just about every European flag carrier, plus an assortment of othes.

Yet fares are already pretty high on a number of routes from ATH due to lack of competition, such as from LCCs, although this is slowly increasing. As such, OA+A3 will become more dominant and might well charge higher fares and the customer will have reduced choice.

And then there's all the domestic flights - OA and A3 are hugely dominant. (OK, a number of the thinner routes probably aren't profitable...)

OK, perhaps I was a little harsh, but then, while we're at it, let's allow FR to fully buy EI.    Wink

[Edited 2010-02-11 09:38:51]


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27106 posts, RR: 60
Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4660 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 15):
As such, OA+A3 will become more dominant and might well charge higher fares and the customer will have reduced choice.

OA is extremely competitive . Its a whole new management and vision now. On ATH-IST for instance which has historically been high fares OA were cheapest on the route when I flew it in December. TK were the most expensive.


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19236 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4627 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 16):
OA is extremely competitive . Its a whole new management and vision now. On ATH-IST for instance which has historically been high fares OA were cheapest on the route when I flew it in December.

Hmm. I just chose random dates in April for ATH-IST-ATH. Cheapest OA fare = €329.08. Delightful!   Cheapest TK fare on the same random dates = €275.18. All for the short distance of 334 miles as the crow flies. Lovely. Both fares are, in my opinion, pretty expensive and not good value-for-money.

But, of course, it's pointless and silly saying they're "extremely competitive" and illustrating it with one example and me showing one random example of when they're clearly not.

So, let's put it all aside and agree to disagree.  

[Edited 2010-02-11 10:01:51]


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27106 posts, RR: 60
Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4604 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 17):
But, of course, it's pointless and silly saying they're "extremely competitive" and illustrating it with one example and me showing one random example of when they're clearly not.

And another ''random'' example  http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/2259/oaathist.png

My ticket when they had their regular seat sales !!


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19236 posts, RR: 52
Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4541 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 18):
And another ''random'' example

Yeah, yeah.   I have just spent more time looking for their cheapest tickets on ATH-IST-ATH, and the cheapest return I could find was about €190.

[Edited 2010-02-11 10:50:01]


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27106 posts, RR: 60
Reply 20, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4503 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 19):
I have just spent more time looking for their cheapest tickets on ATH-IST-ATH, and the cheapest return I could find was about €190.

Arrr so alot cheaper than your ''random'' €329.08 !     I just had a long search through random dates for various routes incl. LHR/LGW and they seem cheap enough to me and thats without a seat sale on.


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19236 posts, RR: 52
Reply 21, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4480 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 20):
I just had a long search through random dates for various routes incl. LHR/LGW and they seem cheap enough to me and thats without a seat sale on.

But you fly J so Y tickets would often be good priced for you.

London is awash with low fares competition, so I'd expect there to be better fares - this is obvious.

€190 return minimum for ATH-IST-ATH - which is what I have found - is not a particularly good price for such short sectors, but obviously lower than my earlier example.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineTobias2702 From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 721 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4458 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 15):
And then there's all the domestic flights - OA and A3 are hugely dominant.

What about Athens Airways?

edit: Yet another question: Even if the merger would indeed come true, A3 joining Star Alliance by 10 May won't be affected, will it?

[Edited 2010-02-11 11:18:31]


PA, AF, UK, BA, AB, DL, LH, FR, BD, A3, EZY, DY //// A319/320/346, B733/735/73G/738/744/763, AT4, 146, CR2, DH4
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19236 posts, RR: 52
Reply 23, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4413 times:

Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 22):
Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 15):
And then there's all the domestic flights - OA and A3 are hugely dominant.

What about Athens Airways?

That is why I said hugely, not exceedingly or whatever.

Also, don't forget that Athens Airways started last January. And I'm now waiting for someone to say Olympic Air is new (yes, OA ceased operations, etc, and Olympic Air, also OA, started)!  

Anyway, let's not get bogged down with all this.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27106 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4411 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 21):
But you fly J so Y tickets would often be good priced for you.

Even J is good value ::

€466 all in . ATH-LHR-ATH

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 21):
but obviously lower than my earlier example.

Indeed.  


25 OlympicATH : A few months ago, I remember reading in the Greek press that MIG (which owns OA) had included long-haul services in its business plan, but no announc
26 CYatUK : I remember reading sommething related to this together with the news about the proposed re-launch of Macedonian Airways based at SKG. Hopefully both
27 OA260 : Yes still on the cards for the SKG operation. There was a more recent article confirming intensions for longhaul maybe in 2011. Any merger with A3 wo
28 CYatUK : This is also related to EU regulations (together with the 35% reduction of operations), correct?
29 OA260 : EU made rule that 35% reduction and Greek Govt made rule about not being able to sell or merge for one year.
30 CYatUK : Just the discussion of a future merger has already started political discussions with a certain political party arguing that this will bring catastrop
31 OA260 : Whos crying now ND or PASOK?
32 JU068 : If they do go longhaul would they take the old OA 340's or...?
33 Post contains links CYatUK : "SYN" seem to be unhappy about the proposal. See link http://www.enet.gr/?i=news.el.article&id=131369
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