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Cities With 1 Int'l Airport + 1 Domestic Airport  
User currently offlinedc10srule From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 172 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 9591 times:

Hello All,

With the recent news that Haneda in Tokyo will be hosting some International flights, I got to thinking about cities that segregate their domestic and international flights into 2 different airports.

Osaka has become that way since Kansai opened - Itami (I believe) is only used for domestic services.
Montreal Mirabel and Dorval were split which was a failure and now all traffic except for some cargo uses Mirabel.

I'm of the opinion that splitting these operations is not generally successful given the difficulties encountered for connecting passengers.

Any examples of cities where this setup has been successful or where it has gone dreadfully wrong?
Also, any ideas of cities that might be considering this "split" setup.

Take Care!

JA


Giggity-Giggity..!
81 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCairnterriAIR From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 402 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 9588 times:

The one that comes to mind for me is Chicago with O'Hare and Midway airports. You could also say New York City with Laguardia and Kennedy. Newark may serve that area, but is in New Jersey.

User currently offlineNASBWI From Bahamas, joined Feb 2005, 1311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 9582 times:

In the US, it's hard to really picture any of the city airports to be truly "domestic", since even LGA, MDW, and DCA have international departures (albeit for rather short flights). However, if you're looking at concentration of flights that are primarily domestic (and over a short distance), then I guess you can say that New York, Chicago, and Washington count   . Chiefly, there's also Dallas, which operates DFW and DAL - the latter sees service primarily from WN, and only to surrounding states.

Quoting dc10srule (Thread starter):
Montreal Mirabel and Dorval were split which was a failure and now all traffic except for some cargo uses Mirabel.

I think you mean the opposite   . Dorval actually sees all traffic except for some cargo, which goes to YMX.



Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
User currently offlinedc10srule From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 9530 times:

Yes, I meant that Dorval now has all traffic in Montreal - Thanks NASBWI for the correction.

I know there are many cities with 2 airports but I don't think we can qualify JFK as a segregated "International" ONLY airport since there is service across the US from there. Same goes for IAH, ORD, DFW etc.

I'm looking for airports that ONLY serve International traffic while their city has another airport for domestic ops.

Many years ago, before GRU was built in Sao Paulo, International flights were served by Campinas about 90KM away while other traffic used Congonhas in the heart of the city. I was a bit young then but I don't recall if Congonhas served any international destinations back in those days (1982).

Any ideas.

JA



Giggity-Giggity..!
User currently offlineskyone From Mexico, joined Feb 2001, 425 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 9495 times:

Comes to mind EZE and AEP.

Although AR is threatening to start International flights (Uruguay is consider domestic, believe it or not) from AEP


User currently offlineCambrian From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 619 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 9490 times:

How about Medellin?

Hererra (EOH) serves domestic flights and MDE international flights.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13033 posts, RR: 100
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 9462 times:
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Quoting dc10srule (Thread starter):

I'm of the opinion that splitting these operations is not generally successful given the difficulties encountered for connecting passengers.

I too consider that unlikely to succeed. International traffic thrives by transferring cargo and passengers to domestic service. In my opinion, the split NRT/HND service gave ICN the opening to become a major hub. Well... that and lack of slots at HND/NRT.   

Quoting CairnterriAIR (Reply 1):
The one that comes to mind for me is Chicago with O'Hare and Midway airports. You could also say New York City with Laguardia and Kennedy

Laguardia/JFK is the closest example. However, JFK has tremendous domestic service now. The issue with NRT is the very limited domestic connectivity. I've tried to visit people in Southern Japan and the connections were horrid! None that I was willing to do within the time I could take a vacation. Note: Now I could do it via ICN with excellent connections; but everyone I know well who worked in Southern Japan was laid off and has moved out of Japan to work elsewhere.  

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinemandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6849 posts, RR: 75
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 9432 times:

Quoting dc10srule (Thread starter):
Any examples of cities where this setup has been successful or where it has gone dreadfully wrong?
Also, any ideas of cities that might be considering this "split" setup.

From the late 70s to 1985/6, Jakarta had 2 airports in this set up.
Kemayoran Airport (downtown) is the original airport, and held the bulk of domestic flights.
Halim Airport, was a former airbase, had a civilian apron and terminal built. It handled all the international traffic and several routes by Garuda that received feed from the international traffic... mainly DC-9 ops to DPS, JOG and several flights to SUB.

Kemayoran's physical constraints, being in the middle of town, and Halim having to share with the air force, plus the conflicting runway layouts, resulted in the current airport, Jakarta Soekarno-Hatta (CGK) Airport to be built and was opened in 1985/6... Kemayoran was then closed, and Halim turned into a GenAv airport (which was originally based in Kemayoran).



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently onlineBasilFawlty From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 1325 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 9419 times:

Tehran: IKA for intl. and THR for domestic (except charters to Saudi Arabia)


'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
User currently offlineAmricanShamrok From Ireland, joined May 2008, 2890 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 9299 times:

I think Belfast fits into this category. BFS serves as the international gateway and is a hub for LS, EI and U2. BHD is more domestic (Ireland/UK flights) with the only international flights here being CDG and RNS (seasonal); it is a hub for BE and FR.


Shannon-Chicago
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 9283 times:

IAH and HOU....... DAL and DFW


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineAAEXP From Brazil, joined Jul 2005, 424 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 9282 times:

In Brazil:

GIG (int) SDU (dom)
GRU (int) CGH (dom)
CNF (int) PLU (dom)


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11437 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 9268 times:
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In Brazil only Rio de Janeiro count with 2 airports into city area: GIG for International and domestic services, SDU just for domestic. Sao Paulo only have CGH into city limits and the international airport in fact is in another city.


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently onlineBasilFawlty From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 1325 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 9260 times:

Two more examples:

Tel Aviv: TLV for intl. flights and SDV for domestic flights. However, Ovda and Eilat are served from TLV as well.
Shanghai: PVG for intl. flights and SHA for domestic flights (except the city-to-city flights to GMP and HND).



'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
User currently offlineAAEXP From Brazil, joined Jul 2005, 424 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 9239 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 12):
n Brazil only Rio de Janeiro count with 2 airports into city area: GIG for International and domestic services, SDU just for domestic. Sao Paulo only have CGH into city limits and the international airport in fact is in another city.

Well looking at it this way, CNF is also not in Belo Horizonte proper...... 


User currently offlineMexicana757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3041 posts, RR: 28
Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 9236 times:

Quoting CairnterriAIR (Reply 1):
The one that comes to mind for me is Chicago with O'Hare and Midway airports.

I would take Chicago out of the list. Midway has customs facilities to handle international flights. Gates A2 and A3 handle international flights. When ATA was around they flew to destinations in Mexico and Caribbean.


User currently offlinetrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4763 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 9155 times:
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Taipei
Taoyuan Intl
Sungshan Domestic
has worked fairly well, there is not total segregation of international and domestic to the two but except for some charters and some flights to mainland China Sungshan is domestic- haha I guess thats why the mainalnd China flights go from Sungshan , Chinese civil war politics 101 ,
interestingly the new Taiwan to Haneda flights will apparently go from Sungshan!


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25205 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 9088 times:

Quoting dc10srule (Reply 3):
Many years ago, before GRU was built in Sao Paulo, International flights were served by Campinas about 90KM away while other traffic used Congonhas in the heart of the city. I was a bit young then but I don't recall if Congonhas served any international destinations back in those days (1982).

CGH had some international flights. I remember flying on a Varig A300 EZE-CGH-GIG sometime in the mid-1980s. I think the A300 was probably the largest type that used CGH then.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8808 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 8994 times:
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Kingston, Jamaica has both an international and domestic airport. Kingston Norman Manley International Airport (KIN) and Kingston Tinson Pen Airport (KTP).

User currently offlinesimairlinenet From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 914 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 8925 times:

In general, cities where domestic/international split operations occur are countries that have one dominant city. Think about it and it makes sense--most international traffic is bound for that main city, as is domestic. The domestic airport is usually close-in, smaller, and older. Due to size constraints, a larger gateway was needed for international services. Examples abound:

Bangkok
Belfast
Buenos Aires
Istanbul
Jakarta
Kiev
Kuala Lumpur
Moscow
Paris
Reykjavík
Seoul
Taipei
Tehran
Tel Aviv

Some exceptions to the rule (but only in the sense that they are not countries with a single dominant city):
Beijing
Belo Horizonte
Berlin
Milan
New York
Osaka
Rio de Janeiro
Sao Paulo
Shanghai
Tokyo
Washington

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_with_more_than_one_airport


User currently offlineDC10sRule From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 8877 times:

Lot's of great examples - many of which I was not aware of - THANKS!

It seems that for some smaller countries - like Jamaica, the issue of connections from int'l to domestic flights is not as significant.

It also appears that, in a few cases, the rationale for this type of flight segregation has been a lack of available land for a single facility. In the end, new "all in one" airports were built - usually out of town (like Guarulhos - GRU)

In the example of Rio de Janeiro - GIG & SDU. Isn't there sufficient capacity at GIG to accommodate all traffic and leave SDU to handle the RIO-SAO PAULO flights?
I haven't flown into GIG since 1986 but it looks like an underutilized facility with sufficient land for some expansion if necessary.

In the AEP / EZE example, are there capacity issues at EZE requiring some int'l flights move to AEP?

JA



Giggity-Giggity..!
User currently offlineUSAir330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 824 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 8853 times:

Philadelphia has KPHL (International Airport) KPNE ( Airport for GA aircraft) Not sure if that counts since PNE has no airline traffic.

User currently offlinearticulatexpat From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2006, 156 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 8846 times:

Quoting trex8 (Reply 16):
Taipei
Taoyuan Intl
Sungshan Domestic
has worked fairly well, there is not total segregation of international and domestic to the two but except for some charters and some flights to mainland China Sungshan is domestic- haha I guess thats why the mainalnd China flights go from Sungshan , Chinese civil war politics 101 ,
interestingly the new Taiwan to Haneda flights will apparently go from Sungshan!

Seoul has largely split aviation between Incheon for international and Gimpo for domestic. Last time I checked, there was only limited domestic service from Incheon: Busan, Daegu, and Jeju. This makes a degree of sense because Korea's quite small and these are destinations are the ones international passengers most often need to connect to. However, other connections would require a change of airports. With the AREX express train line linking the two airports, it's probably not as awkward a process as it once was, but that doesn't make it the best idea anyone ever had, either.

There's been a trend in East Asia to offer flights between these 'domestic' airports. I believe it started with the scheduled charter flights between Gimpo and Haneda. Now, you can also fly from Shanghai Hongqiao to both airports. Taipei Songshan is also getting Haneda flights, but interestingly, Songshan's Shanghai flights go to Pudong (international), not Hongqiao. Gimpo has had its international designation restored, because there are also flights to Osaka (KIX) and Nagoya (NGO). And Haneda also has flights to Hong Kong. Beijing flights will begin soon, I believe. All this would seem to point out that splitting domestic and international service between airports in the same metro area is impractical and inconvenient. (Note: some information came from Wikipedia, disclaim disclaim.)


User currently offlineplaneguy727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 8789 times:

Panama City has PTY for international and PAC for domestic. Technically PAC has "international" in the title.


I want to live in an old and converted 727...
User currently offlinealphaomega From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 576 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 8735 times:

IAD and DCA for Washington, DC - if you don't count the Air Canada flights into DCA and IAD also has domestics - close tho.

25 Cerecl : Shanghai, PVG is primarily for international and SHA is primarily for domestic flights, although there is a small degree of overlap (e.g. doemstic fli
26 heathrow : In Cadada, there are YYZ and YTZ as a deffinate pair, as well as YEG and YXA competing with YPE and YSM to mention a few.
27 DJMEL : In Australia - MEL International / Domestic Ops - 22 kms from Melbourne AVV for Domestic Ops (JQ / SH and possibly TT moving some flights) - 70 kms fr
28 Viscount724 : And US Airways to the Bahamas. US has a daily nonstop DCA-NAS.
29 Post contains images EZEIZA : it's not a threat; it's official starting March, and it won't be exclusive to AR. And it's not even AR's call Until now, the only intl' flights (exce
30 anonms : Well, I don't know if I'd considering Cross-strait flights as "domestic", but especially with impending service to HND and the existing FIS facility
31 Post contains images mdavies06 : Beijing - Whilst there are more than one civilian airport in Beijing, in a general sense there is only one as the others are very small in passenger
32 ptugarin : BKK and DMK in Bangkok EZE and AEP in Buenos Aires In both cases, former is the international gateway and latter the domestic one.
33 Rafabozzolla : That's just how it was until last year. For some time SDU handled only shuttle flights to CGH and a few turboprops, plus general aviation. I personal
34 AirNZ : I admit to firstly thinking the same thing, but yet I don't think it exactly fits into the catagory as the OP is asking. There is nothing definitive
35 FlyMeToTheMoon : Bucharest Romania had segragated ops during comunist times with OTP exclusively for international flights and BBU (about 20 km away) with exclusively
36 Post contains images NWOrientDC10 : North Philadelphia Airport had flights to PHL via Allegheny Commuter. These flights were fifteen minutes long and are listed in a 1980 OAG. Interesti
37 mogandoCI : IIRC Sapporo kept its old airport for domestics while moving the international flights to New Chitose ?
38 OryCdg : Anyway, I don't think is it possible to completely separate domestic and international traffic with two different platforms. For an airline operating
39 BuyantUkhaa : Actually, BBU is closer to the city (the same road passes near both airports), and the airport are actually very close to each other - about 7km.
40 LiquidAquifer : A lot (if not most?) of the large cities in India have this sort of system set up, in a way. There are usually separate international and domestic ter
41 AmricanShamrok : It's not definitive but as a rule the continental European and transatlantic traffic tends to favour Belfast International Airport. I think this most
42 exFATboy : And New York actually has two international airports - JFK and EWR. Saying EWR is not a New York airport because it's in New Jersey is like saying "w
43 B727fan : Bucharest Romania had segragated ops during comunist times with OTP exclusively for itn With flights to Canada, LGA is also International.
44 EwRkId : If I'm not mistaken I think CO had or still has service from LGA to the Bahamas or some sun destination, can anyone help me?
45 planesavvy : Johannesburg: OR Tambo International JNB and Lanseria HLA Nairobi: Jomo Kenyatta NBO and Wilson WIL
46 Viscount724 : US has a daily LGA-Nassau nonstop, and starting May 28 DL has a daily LGA-Bermuda nonstop. CO also has a nonstop LGA-Aruba on Saturday when the perim
47 MD11junkie : No, that's simply incorrect. MVD and PDP flights are considered regional. If they were domestic, the airport tax paid would be ARS 8.5. However, they
48 C010T3 : Yes, there were international flights from CGH, but not intercontinental. Yes, GIG would have the capacity to accommodate all traffic, except the shu
49 AirlineEcon : Thats a great observation about the east asian cities. How about Hong Kong? Could the city benefit from having a "domestic" airport located closer to
50 Blueman87 : i would say that to because newerk is in new jersey
51 Flytravel : I agree. Other equivalents- Gatwick airport isn't in London so isn't for London. And Dulles isn't for DC. The Port Authority of New York and New Jers
52 adriaticflight : keflavik and reykjavik?
53 articulatexpat : This wouldn't work for a number of reasons. Hong Kong itself is too small, for one thing, and there's no room closer to to the densely urban district
54 757MDE : You are right mostly in the sense that EOH serves only regional traffic and MDE the rest, but domestic flights also depart from MDE to the most impor
55 Aesma : Yeah and there is international flights at ORY so it doesn't work at all.
56 FlyingSicilian : Houston Though IAH has a very good domestic service selection with CO, Hobby, with it's Southwest hub-that's-not-a-hub service does a good job on the
57 AvroArrow : There is Windhoek Namibia: Windhoek FYWE ERS Eros Airport Windhoek FYWH WDH Windhoek Hosea Kutako International Airport AFAIK Eros is Domestic and YWH
58 JBAirwaysFan : If you want to really stretch it, you can add Cleveland. CLE handles all and CAK (which FL and F9 designate as Cleveland) handles only domestic. Milan
59 AirIndia : Istanbul would be unique. It has 2 airports but both have domestic and intl services. One is on the European side (IST) while the other on the Asian s
60 unclekoru : Noumea in New Caledonia has the two airports. Tontouta (NWWW) is used for international flights and Magenta (NWWM) which is used for domestic traffic
61 FlyingSicilian : Belize City is another. BZE has all the int'l flights, and some domestic, while Belize City airport in town has the majority local traffic on Maya Isl
62 BNAFlyer : I think you're splitting hairs here. In reality, how many major cities airports actually lie withing their own city boundaries?
63 C010T3 : That depends a lot on the territorial division of each country. In Brazil, city limits do have a huge importance. Rio de Janeiro has 5 airports withi
64 RetroLivery : I think Amman is actually a good example, as Queen Alia (AMM) operates only international flights and Marka (ADJ) seems to operate only Royal Wings fl
65 normie999 : Lerwick: Tingwall handles intra-Shetland flights, while Sumburgh, some 20 or so miles away at the southern tip of Mainland, handles everything else.
66 huaiwei : PVG does handle some domestic traffic, but as far as this topic goes, it is a better example than most cited so far. Thing is, Taipei Taoyuan handles
67 AirNZ : Might I suggest a bit of research/geography refreshment. LGW is a world recognised London airport and to say it "isn't in London" is pure folly! If y
68 DanVS : Looking at this way, there are other examples of cities which don't have airports with airline operations: Salvador (SSA) Natal (NAT) Cuiabá (CGB) C
69 C010T3 : You're wrong about Salvador. SSA is located entirely within Salvador city limits.
70 DanVS : True!
71 BNAFlyer : Your posts are very Brazil-centric, which is fine considering your flag. Isn't the thread about cities and airports worldwide? I'm still betting more
72 C010T3 : Like the absolute majority of the US-users of this forum are not USA-centric, but that's not important at all, since the fact is that you didn't read
73 anonms : Aside from flights from KHH to feed into international flights, TPE has no domestic traffic. In that sense Taipei's setup is the most clearly definin
74 AmricanShamrok : I think it's a matter of opinion really.
75 huaiwei : It may be feeder traffic, but isn't the TPE-KHH route too busy to ignore?
76 Post contains images BasilFawlty : Are you serious?
77 Viscount724 : Since high-speed rail service between TPE and KHH begani in 2007 (also serving several other points), air service on that sector has almost been elim
78 Flytravel : I know...I meant by above reference as an equivalent. i.e. saying EWR isn't for New York is like saying LGW isn't for London. I don't agree with that
79 SANMAN66 : How about SAN for Int'l flights and CRQ for domestic? CRQ is 30 miles from SAN and it is served by United Express. American Eagle and USAirways Expres
80 anonms : If CRQ and SAN both had more service, it might work. But SAN's only international destinations are on the same continent and IIRC CRQ only has region
81 Post contains images huaiwei : Thanks! I found out about the plunging domestic air market, but I have no idea just how extensive it can be. I suppose my impression about the TPE-KH
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