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DL Adds Second SLC-FAR Responds To Frontier Exit  
User currently offlineSlcDeltaRUmd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3442 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4703 times:

Who didn't see this one coming. DL responds extremely quickly to Frontier exiting DEN-FAR with a second daily SLC-FAR announed. Trying to get all the Western heading connecting passengers that Frontier leaves behind. Its way too close and perfect to be a coincidence. DL saw Frontier exit and jumped on the opportunity to boost FAR and also try more ND flying out West. FAR will start out as twice daily for the summer 2010 maybe just summer seasonal based on demand of the second daily and the CR7 upgrade to FAR

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/268827/

DL is using this as a lauch to also start more ND service from SLC to Minot and Bismark. Twice daily 2x to Minot and Bismark from SLC! This seems like a pretty aggressive start for delta. DL wants these markets to fly west via SLC not west via a first east flight to MSP as Northwest always did it that much is clear. Minot has a population of 36,000 residents and they are getting twice daily to SLC as a start?

Will these routes come at the expense of MSP downgrades? Less passengers heading west via MSP so less passengers in general?

The additional flights show Delta is committed to North Dakota, the company said in the statement.

[Edited 2010-02-14 00:54:53]

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25152 posts, RR: 85
Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4696 times:
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Quoting SlcDeltaRUmd11 (Thread starter):
Trying to get all the Western heading connecting passengers that Frontier leaves behind.

It may be that - it seems sensible. Be ready for the higher fares, though. I can't access the link, but I assume it is a CRJ?

mariner

[Edited 2010-02-14 00:49:53]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineSlcDeltaRUmd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3442 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4680 times:

Not sure why that didnt work but heres another link

http://www.kqcd.com/News_Stories.asp?news=37728

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...akota-cities.html?linkTrack=rss-14


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25152 posts, RR: 85
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4671 times:
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Quoting SlcDeltaRUmd11 (Reply 2):
Not sure why that didnt work but heres another link

The link worked, but In Forum always requires registration and I am registered with so many, I've lost track of 'em all. I got the basic point from you.

It will be interesting to see how this pans out. On a random day in March, Travelocity shows Delta at $354 for FAR-SLC, while Frontier is $212 for FAR-DEN on the same day. United doesn't quite match Fortier, but almost.

Clearly, Frontier isn't pulling enough traffic at FAR and I assume once they pull out United fares will go up - matching Delta? I have no idea what effect this will have on anyone's loads.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineDavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2306 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4483 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 3):
It will be interesting to see how this pans out. On a random day in March, Travelocity shows Delta at $354 for FAR-SLC, while Frontier is $212 for FAR-DEN on the same day. United doesn't quite match Fortier, but almost.

I suspect the $$ is why DL is so fast to add the flights. They've pulled out of other cities, but I suspect as Frontier pulls out, DL will keep the fares high to help supplement other routes.

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineazstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 620 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4462 times:

I fly to Fargo frequently for business. There is a large Microsoft campus there. Fargo is a prosperous, diversified economy. A large percentage of F9's passengers were either travelling on business, or connecting to F9's Mexico flights. On my flight a couple of weeks ago the airport agent told me over 30 psgrs were connecting to Mexico or Costa Rica. The problem is the aircraft. There were an extraordinary amount of cancellations or lengthy delays due to aircraft issues. In a community like that word of mouth is critical. It can make you or break you. Word around town was to avoid Frontier Airlines. It had an impact.

In my opinion it was a mistake not to switch to jet aircraft because the potential still exsits there. Using aircraft to fly to Santa Barbara (1 hour from LAX), Branson, and Newport News is a much riskier, more expensive proposition, subsidized or not.

People can argue all they want about Frontier's brilliant management, and Republic's competence, but both are fallacies. This airline just doesn't know it's markets, or attempt to learn about them in any detail.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25152 posts, RR: 85
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4312 times:
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Quoting azstar (Reply 5):
People can argue all they want about Frontier's brilliant management, and Republic's competence, but both are fallacies. This airline just doesn't know it's markets, or attempt to learn about them in any detail.

Oh. I thought this was about how Delta's new service to SLC, not Frontier's old service to DEN.

Still, each to their own. If this is true:

Quoting azstar (Reply 5):
It can make you or break you. Word around town was to avoid Frontier Airlines. It had an impact.

Fair enough. It broke 'em.

If the Q's were a mistake, obviously, it is not a mistake Frontier will be repeating. As for the good people of Fargo, they still have United service to DEN and they now have additional service to SLC from Delta.

mariner

[Edited 2010-02-14 09:49:18]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlinesxf24 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4184 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 6):
Oh. I thought this was about how Delta's new service to SLC, not Frontier's old service to DEN.

I think the point is that DL's new service is coming about because of F9's old service.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25152 posts, RR: 85
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4148 times:
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Quoting sxf24 (Reply 7):
I think the point is that DL's new service is coming about because of F9's old service.

Sure. Perhaps. I don't know.

I see that Delta is providing new service to other North Dakota destinations and several other places from SLC. Might they have added this new FAR service anyway? I agree that Frontier's pull-out might be an impetus for them, but I don't know that.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineSlcDeltaRUmd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3442 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4090 times:

I think its was the Frontier departure that propelled DL to add the extra frequency. I doubt DL would have tried this with Frontier in town and lower fares. so in the Summer Fargo will have a CR7 and CRJ to SLC for Western connections.

I think this also pushed delta to rethink North Dakota and decided they had a chance to add more cities. If these are successful we will find out. I heard on hear that Frontier had poor loads on DEN-FAR? With Frontier out DL fares will go up so i am sure that is the real reason they want more seats out of FAR. Also to get people flying west to go via SLC not MSP backtracking


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25152 posts, RR: 85
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4063 times:
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Quoting SlcDeltaRUmd11 (Reply 9):
I think its was the Frontier departure that propelled DL to add the extra frequency. I doubt DL would have tried this with Frontier in town and lower fares. so in the Summer Fargo will have a CR7 and CRJ to SLC for Western connections.

You may be right, I don't know.

I believe, for example, that Delta is increasing service SLC-OKC, but - to my knowledge - Frontier has not pulled out of DEN-OKC. If anything, Frontier is increasing service on the route by using the E190 instead of the Q400.

So, yes, you may be right, I don't know. Delta hasn't told me.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1645 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4030 times:

Quoting SlcDeltaRUmd11 (Reply 9):
I think this also pushed delta to rethink North Dakota and decided they had a chance to add more cities. If these are successful we will find out. I heard on hear that Frontier had poor loads on AND CURRENT: Denver - International (DEN / KDEN), USA - Colorado">DEN-FAR? With Frontier out DL fares will go up so i am sure that is the real reason they want more seats out of FAR. Also to get people flying west to go via SLC not MSP backtracking

I think your last statement is key. In my relatively uninformed opinion, it seems far more likely the DL has been considering places it has opportunities for additional service (particularly for unique MSP cities) and had already identified the planned Dakota routes. It seems like a stretch to suggest that Frontier pulled AND CURRENT: Denver - International (DEN / KDEN), USA - Colorado">DEN-FAR is essentially responsible for the additional SLC-FAR frequency AND the introduction of SLC-MOT/BIS.

Further, considering that SLC-MOT/BIS are each being started at 2x daily, it seems likely that the upgrade to 2x daily on SLC-FAR was already in the plans too. I can't imagine that they would fly the smaller markets at 2x while leaving the much larger FAR market at 1x.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25152 posts, RR: 85
Reply 12, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4008 times:
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Quoting azstar (Reply 5):
In my opinion it was a mistake not to switch to jet aircraft because the potential still exsits there.

It may be worth noting that Frontier previously dropped FAR in 1996 and that service was with 737 jets, so issues of turboprop were not a factor.

Maybe there just isn't enough traffic to support two airlines DEN-FAR. Maybe Fargo just doesn't like Frontier. Who knows?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4008 times:

Quoting azstar (Reply 5):
Using aircraft to fly to Santa Barbara (1 hour from LAX), Branson, and Newport News is a much riskier, more expensive proposition, subsidized or not.

   I agree. These destinations still leave me scratching my head as I have never ever thought that these destinations would come up on our route map. I am still trying to figure out what the heck is in Branson and why is RW going there?? I can understand Newport News because of the navy presence there, but from DEN????

Still scratching my head.....



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25152 posts, RR: 85
Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4006 times:
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Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 13):
I can understand Newport News because of the navy presence there, but from DEN????

LOL.

I don't see what it has to do with this thread, but have you checked the amount of traffic (navy?) between, say, PHF-SAN and ORF-SAN, for which there is no non-stop service and DEN makes an easy connection?

mariner

[Edited 2010-02-14 12:52:46]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5411 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3959 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 14):
LOL. I don't see what it has to do with this thread, but have you checked the amount of traffic (navy?) between, say, PHF-SAN and ORF-SAN, for which there is no non-stop service and DEN makes an easy connection?

Mariner, would you mind adding ORF-SAN to your wish-list for "outside-the-box" route possibilities for this airline to seriously consider? (Since MCI and MKE still don't seem to be making it to the top of the list, why not some other ideas.   )

This thread may now return to its actual topic...

bb


User currently offlinesxf24 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3924 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 8):
Sure. Perhaps. I don't know.
Quoting mariner (Reply 10):
You may be right, I don't know.

If you don't know, why do you feel the need to challenge any person who questions F9?


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25152 posts, RR: 85
Reply 17, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3793 times:
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Quoting SANFan (Reply 15):
Mariner, would you mind adding ORF-SAN to your wish-list for "outside-the-box" route possibilities for this airline to seriously consider? (Since MCI and MKE still don't seem to be making it to the top of the list, why not some other ideas.

Well - maybe.

But I would be verrrrrrrry happy to put PHF-SAN on my wish list for "outside the box' thinking. Or even a direct flight PHF-MCI-SAN.

Quoting sxf24 (Reply 16):
If you don't know, why do you feel the need to challenge any person who questions F9?

Questions F9? LOL. I questioned Frontier's decision to return to FAR.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineAviatorTJ From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1838 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3713 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 17):
Questions F9? LOL. I questioned Frontier's decision to return to FAR.

I'm surprised to see that F9 is pulling out due to poor loads/performance. UA owned the FAR-DEN market with CRJ-200s, so I would apply that competition on that same route would yield lower fares and better products resulting in higher demand.

It is interesting that North Dakotans are generally some of the biggest complainers when talking about how underserved their airports are in terms of westbound connections. However, when new service is given to their airports, they seem to forget all of that because they earn miles and segments going through Minneapolis. It is truly a unique market that DL/NW has effectively captured.


User currently offlinekinglobjaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 130 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3460 times:

I wonder if they'll do a GFK-SLC service. Allegiant seems to do well on it's GFK-IWA/LAS services.

-Kinglobjaw



Kinglobjaw
User currently offlinec152driver From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2914 times:

I think this is less about responding to F9's departure and more about the DL/NW merger being completed, meaning all the loyal NW fliers in North Dakota will now earn miles flying west. Delta flew FAR-SLC for a short time prior to the merger and pulled out when fuel prices skyrocketed. I think the fact that Delta and Northwest are one and the same will improve performance on these routes.

I also think this is partly due to the surplus of 50 seat jets. I think airlines are starting to throw these at routes hoping they'll stick, just so they have somewhere to send them.


User currently offlineKLASM83 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 629 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2872 times:

Quoting AviatorTJ (Reply 18):
North Dakotans are generally some of the biggest complainers when talking about how underserved their airports are in terms of westbound connections. However, when new service is given to their airports, they seem to forget all of that because they earn miles and segments going through Minneapolis. It is truly a unique market that DL/NW has effectively captured.

A wise saying goes "North Dakotans aren't against change, they just take 20 years to get used to it". I suppose for the simple reason that F9 is not DL/NW or UA they didn't want to try the new guy in FAR, don'tcha know?    But, that's just an observation of a quip a teacher made and thus just my   .

Quoting kinglobjaw (Reply 19):
I wonder if they'll do a GFK-SLC service. Allegiant seems to do well on it's GFK-IWA/LAS services.

I secretly hope for that. But with FAR so close and G4 kicking much butt, I really don't see anything happening in new service. However, that may change once we get that shanty of a terminal finally replaced.



Don't you want to hang out and waste your life with us?
User currently offlineazstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 620 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2836 times:

It's interesting that they all liked the fact that fares went down when F9 started flying there. Now they can go back to complaining about high fares. I don't think they realize that the major airlines only lower the fares when there's competition from a lower cost airline, and if you don't support that airline the majors go back to their higher fares as soon as they're gone.

User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25152 posts, RR: 85
Reply 23, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2711 times:
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Quoting SlcDeltaRUmd11 (Thread starter):
DL is using this as a lauch to also start more ND service from SLC to Minot and Bismark. Twice

Minot is popular. I see United is adding service to DEN.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/United...-Launch-bw-824283646.html?x=0&.v=1

"United Airlines to Launch Denver - Minot, N.D. Service"

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineSlcDeltaRUmd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3442 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2556 times:

WOW Mariner good find

So UA announces DEN-Minot service days after DL announces SLC-Minot and SLC-Bismark. The battle for western connecting passengers is on at Minot, Fargo, and Bismark between these two. I really think that DL has an edge here since there are so many more DL FFs in the area but time will tell.


25 kinglobjaw : I think this is less about responding to F9's departure and more about the DL/NW merger being completed, meaning all the loyal NW fliers in North Dako
26 GentFromAlaska : I tend to agree SLC also gets westbound travelers to the opposite side of the Rockies, G4 gets them to LAX on select days. I'm curious if true west,
27 KLASM83 : It should open in 2011 or 2012, knowing North Dakota lol
28 SlcDeltaRUmd11 : Even with Microsofts large campus in FAR I don't think it can support a FAR-SEA non-stop. SLC(DL) and DEN(UA) are fine connecting points to SEA. Does
29 azstar : Someone told me Microsoft had tried to arrange nonstop service to SEA with Expressjet while they were flying their branded service, but it was out of
30 GentFromAlaska : I was looking at the RITA data for FAR. It appeared NW has significant marketshare connecting pax through MSP. Now that NW is embedded in DL it appear
31 boslax : Delta’s announcement of expanded service throughout North Dakota has nothing to do with the Frontier/Fargo service elimination and everything to do
32 airbusaddict : Im very surprised not to see DL add back SLC-FSD. It was very lame because they kept closing it, then opening it back up, then it went to 2 daily, the
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