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B6 To BKG/KBBG: Good Idea?  
User currently offlineJBAirwaysFan From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1008 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4335 times:

With Branson Airport being privately owned and operated, is it possible that B6 might want to jump on route exclusivity for JFK service? We all know that Branson Airport will definitely cut a deal with them to get this. 1x daily E190 with an extra weekend flight might be good for them.


In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32799 posts, RR: 71
Reply 1, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4264 times:

Absolutely nobody in New York City is interested in visiting a Midwest tourist trap.


a.
User currently offlineBNAFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4222 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
Absolutely nobody in New York City is interested in visiting a Midwest tourist tra

I would tend to agree. Branson seems to attract a following primarily from the south and southwest. Even with a subsidy offer, I really doubt B6 would bite.


User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3817 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4155 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
Absolutely nobody in New York City is interested in visiting a Midwest tourist trap.

Who cares, Branson's just gonna pay for it.

  


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25292 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4041 times:
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Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
Absolutely nobody in New York City is interested in visiting a Midwest tourist trap.

LOL. If you mean Manhattan, that's probably true.  

But I've been to some C&W concerts in New Jersey and Nassau County and the crowds there were pretty much the same crowds I used to see at Gatlinburg and Pigeon Forge in the Smokey Mountains. .

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 3):
Who cares, Branson's just gonna pay for it.

It would be interesting to know how much. A Springfield airport spokesman guesstimated that Branson gave Airtran a couple of million originally, versus about $6.5 million for ICT. But it was only a guess.

What they certainly offer is route exclusivity. For a period of time - not known how long - Airtran has the exclusive right to fly ATL-BKG.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2926 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3909 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
Absolutely nobody in New York City is interested in visiting a Midwest tourist trap.

Agreed. The yields would be awful and they would have to surrender a precious JFK slot to operate it.


User currently offlineJBAirwaysFan From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1008 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3810 times:

Okay then, let me ask you this. Which market would be more worth it for JetBlue to use a precious JFK slot, DAB or BKG?


In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8902 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3803 times:

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 6):
Okay then, let me ask you this. Which market would be more worth it for JetBlue to use a precious JFK slot, DAB or BKG?

Likely DAB - they could easily fill up a daily E-190 (and likely a few daily A320s during winter) on DAB-JFK. Would be a lot of O&D traffic there. Branson just isn't on the radar of the vast majority of the population in the Northeast; when I've lived up there (which has been most of my life), you never hear anyone talk about going to Branson.


User currently offlineJBAirwaysFan From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1008 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3751 times:

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 7):
Likely DAB - they could easily fill up a daily E-190 (and likely a few daily A320s during winter) on DAB-JFK. Would be a lot of O&D traffic there. Branson just isn't on the radar of the vast majority of the population in the Northeast; when I've lived up there (which has been most of my life), you never hear anyone talk about going to Branson.

You have a point. I'm from Long Island and I've actually never heard anything of Branson.



In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
User currently offlineN7190JR From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3729 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 4):
But I've been to some C&W concerts in New Jersey and Nassau County

Really, Nassau County? The county that doesn't even have a Country Western radio Station? How large of a venue was this held at, and how big was the crowd...Every single person I know (Having lived in Nassau my entire life) has shuddered at the sound of country.

If there was to be a flight from Branson, i think B6 would do better through AUS or FLL for connecting pax. but thats my .02



The Only Way Up is Up: KEEP CLIMBING
User currently offlineGothamSpotter From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3714 times:

There are lots of country listeners in NYC. Plenty of midwestern transplants who love that stuff, and retirees who have nothing else to do. I think a couple flights a week could work. Will it happen? Probably not.

User currently offlineBNAFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3704 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 4):
But I've been to some C&W concerts in New Jersey and Nassau County and the crowds there were pretty much the same crowds I used to see at Gatlinburg and Pigeon Forge in the Smokey Mountains. .

While I'd certainly have no desire to go to Branson, it's not totally country music. It also caters to an a more mature, older crowd. I know Andy Williams has a dinner theater there, along with a few 60's easy listening singers. Still, that is a market that's pretty narrow. In the 80's (or early 90's) there was Branson Airlines, which flew Dash 7's from the old airport to BNA and DFW. Lasted a very short time IIRC.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25292 posts, RR: 85
Reply 12, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3683 times:
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Quoting N7190JR (Reply 9):
Really, Nassau County? The county that doesn't even have a Country Western radio Station?

It was huge and it was packed. I don't remember the name of it, I was taken, but it was the same arena where I saw Andrea Bocelli give a concert some years ago, also packed.

I was taken to that by friends, too. I was staying in Manhattan and they told me we were off to Nassau County when they picked me up.

It stuck with me because I seem to collect the name "Nassau." There's a great hotel in Wiesbaden, Germany with that name.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3646 times:

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Thread starter):
With Branson Airport being privately owned and operated, is it possible that B6 might want to jump on route exclusivity for JFK service?

I'm not sure, but I'll wager to guess there are restrictions for part 121 aircraft flying into private airports.... plus the need for on-site crash rescue...



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3817 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3565 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 13):
I'm not sure, but I'll wager to guess there are restrictions for part 121 aircraft flying into private airports.... plus the need for on-site crash rescue...

You know this airport is served by AirTran, Sun Country, and soon Frontier.


User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4404 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3500 times:
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BKG is such a Midwest drive-in destination that it is absurd to think anyone is actually going to fly JFK-BKG, on any airline.


Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15745 posts, RR: 27
Reply 16, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3491 times:

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 8):
I'm from Long Island and I've actually never heard anything of Branson.

It is a horrid place. Full of rednecks, and they are proud of it. I can't imagine many people wanting to fly to Branson, probably because that would not allow them to bring their RVs, large quantities of beer, and a bags set with them.

Quoting BNAFlyer (Reply 11):
It also caters to an a more mature, older crowd.

Let's call it what it is. Branson is where people go when their retirement home gets too boring and they need some excitement.   

Quoting GothamSpotter (Reply 10):

There are lots of country listeners in NYC.

I don't doubt that, but listening to country music and getting on a plane to fly to Branson are two very different things. In short, I highly doubt that B6 would find a market.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25292 posts, RR: 85
Reply 17, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3469 times:
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Quoting BMI727 (Reply 16):
Let's call it what it is. Branson is where people go when their retirement home gets too boring and they need some excitement.

LOL. Redneck dollars - or white hair dollars - are still green.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6608 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3430 times:

Just for info sake, here's some 3Q DOT passenger data for BKG (note: these numbers are total traffic in both directions).

ATL-BKG: 76 passengers (FL 100% marketshare)
MSP-BKG: 46 (SY 96% markeshare)
DFW-BKG: 24 (SY 100% marketshare)
NYC-BKG: 15 (FL 100% marketshare)
MCO-BKG: 14 (FL 100% marketshare)
BWI-BKG: 14 (FL 100% marketshare)
BOS-BKG: 13 (FL 100% marketshare)
WAS-BKG: 11 (FL 100% marketshare)

For comparison with the other airport serving the region:

NYC-SGF: 59 passengers (AA is largest carrier, but only 36% marketshare)
SFB-SGF: 126 passengers (G4 100% marketshare) (also 29 passengers on MCO-SGF)

As others have said, I see little chance of B6 launching this route. However, you can see why Branson wanted F9 to allow some feed from the Western markets that won't work via FL's ATL hub.

[Edited 2010-02-15 17:34:01]

User currently offlineJBAirwaysFan From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1008 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3361 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 16):
It is a horrid place. Full of rednecks, and they are proud of it.

First and foremost, I say this being a Transplanted New Yorker, and I wear that with pride, but that sounds A LOT like the Daytona Beach area.  



In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15745 posts, RR: 27
Reply 20, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3352 times:

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 19):
but that sounds A LOT like the Daytona Beach area

Those rednecks are no match for Branson, or any other part of Missouri that isn't St. Louis or Kansas city.along with many other places. These people have the mullets, RVs, cutoff NASCAR t-shirts, and jorts...the whole nine yards.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25292 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3314 times:
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Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 18):
As others have said, I see little chance of B6 launching this route. However, you can see why Branson wanted F9 to allow some feed from the Western markets that won't work via FL's ATL hub.


Agree on both counts. I really don't think it is JetBlue country at all, and certainly not from the coasts.

When I first moved to the States I lived in Kansas for a year and then spent a lot of time in Tennessee. I discovered a whole culture - the Heartland - that was almost completely disconnected from the coasts. To some extent, even Chicago was considered slightly suspect, at least among the people I met.

I think there may be money to be made for some airlines in Branson, but mostly from the middle. I am not surprised that a couple of places in Indiana have put their hands up very high for BKG service.

The puzzle is why Airtran's MKE-BKG died the death so very quickly, but that might relate to Chicago, above.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 20):
These people have the mullets, RVs, cutoff NASCAR t-shirts, and jorts...the whole nine yards.

Old English saying - where there's muck there's brass. Translation: where there're trash there's treasure.  

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4404 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3150 times:
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Quoting BMI727 (Reply 16):
Let's call it what it is. Branson is where people go when their retirement home gets too boring and they need some excitement.

I couldn't describe it better myself.

Quoting mariner (Reply 21):
I think there may be money to be made for some airlines in Branson, but mostly from the middle. I am not surprised that a couple of places in Indiana have put their hands up very high for BKG service.

   I could see a small amount of DEN service working.

Quoting mariner (Reply 21):
The puzzle is why Airtran's MKE-BKG died the death so very quickly, but that might relate to Chicago, above.

I think you are on the right track, mariner. MKE is somewhat pulled into the whole Chicago feel, both socially and geographically. There are quite a few people drawn to Dubuque, Iowa, which is along the Mississippi River from Chicago, as a weekend get away or slowed down retirement town. It is interesting how relatively small geographic areas have their niches to certain areas.

Quoting mariner (Reply 21):
I discovered a whole culture - the Heartland - that was almost completely disconnected from the coasts. To some extent, even Chicago was considered slightly suspect, at least among the people I met.

To many people, the coasts are what exists, and the middle of the country is the "wasteland", yet is where a lot of the blue collar work is and their food likely comes from. I remember someone mentioning in a thread that BWI-DEN is a very long boring flight over the midwest, yet it is some of the most vast and productive agriculture area in the world. To each their own.  



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD.
User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21642 posts, RR: 55
Reply 23, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3133 times:

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 6):
Okay then, let me ask you this. Which market would be more worth it for JetBlue to use a precious JFK slot, DAB or BKG?

DAB by far. And even then I don't think they could run more than a couple of E-190s daily.

Quoting BNAFlyer (Reply 11):
While I'd certainly have no desire to go to Branson, it's not totally country music. It also caters to an a more mature, older crowd.I know Andy Williams has a dinner theater there, along with a few 60's easy listening singers. Still, that is a market that's pretty narrow.

Especially for someone who lives in or near NYC. You've got more performances of that sort of stuff than you know what to do with, all virtually in your backyard, and you're going to get on a plane to go see a show? I doubt it. Yeah, they'll get some people - apparently, they're getting 15 per day. But that's not going to support nonstop airline service, and I don't think more people will want to go just because they can get there nonstop.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25292 posts, RR: 85
Reply 24, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3087 times:
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Quoting iowaman (Reply 22):
I could see a small amount of DEN service working.

Yes. But if Frontier had 3 x weekly DEN-BKG and 1 x weekly COS-BKG, I wouldn't have fallen over in shock.

Quoting iowaman (Reply 22):
It is interesting how relatively small geographic areas have their niches to certain areas.

Ain't that the truth. A friend of mine is a well-respected sociologist and he believes, along with many others, that those niches even cross borders. That Mexicans from, say, Leon, may gravitate to one area of the US, while those from Monterey may tend to gravitate to another (it isn't exclusive).

Later generations will always regard the originating area as home. So third or fourth generation Mexicans from Santa Rosa/Russian River may tend to think of Leon/Morelia as "the old country", even though they have never been there.

It you can work it out it is a great guide for route planners.

The Heartland concept is a bit like this, a problem because it doesn't have a recognizable center or "capital" - it has several. Vanguard Airlines tried a Heartland approach - and it is the only time they made money - but it was too diffuse.

Anyone who can crack it will cash in. Many have.

You're from Iowa. Where do you think of as Bright Lights/Big City (not necessarily the nearest) - Des Moines, Omaha, Kansas City? Chicago? Somewhere else?

mariner



aeternum nauta
25 mah584jr : Though, I'm not from the midwest, I thoroughly enjoyed Des Moines. Kansas City didn't have anything for me. Never been to Omaha. Chicago's decent.
26 B752OS : What is there to even do in Branson? I don't know anyone who has ever been or mentioned it.
27 RJNUT : If you had been to both, your thinking would be opposite the 99 per cent of anyone else who has been to both! trust me on that one!
28 iowaman : While my opinion is biased because I'm originally from Las Vegas, I think of Minneapolis/St. Paul as the "big city" closest to me. Of course I'm in t
29 GentFromAlaska : I've heard Tunica MS KUTA, just south of MEM and a half days drive from Branson is becoming Loss Wages east and the new fan favorite.
30 Post contains links mariner : Their website gives the attractions: http://www.branson.com/ I haven't been to Branson, but I when I was in Tennessee I would always go to Gatlinburg
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