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AF A340 And 777  
User currently offlineGodbless From Sweden, joined Apr 2000, 2752 posts, RR: 16
Posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1776 times:

As you all may know that Air France has both the A340 and the 777 in it's fleet. And another 10 777-300 on order. Do they want to keep their A340s or are they going to leave the fleet in the next years?

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineGOT From Sweden, joined Dec 2000, 1912 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1651 times:

I have no idea, but I really hope that the A340 will stay in the fleet.

GOT



Just like birdwatching - without having to be so damned quiet!
User currently offlineA330/B777 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1613 times:

AF continues to recieve new A340's. They aren't going anywhere. They serve a completely differant market than do the 777's. Those operate the higher yield markets, since they can economiclly have a higher percentage of First and Biz. Class seats.

With the new A330's coming this fall, thier commonallity within the fleet is secured for years to come.


User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4531 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1587 times:

AF will not be ditching their A340-300's. As A330/777 said, the two aircraft serve different markets. AF owns something like 50 A340's, and they are all under 10 years old. They will be in the fleet a long time to come.

BTW, why did AF order the A330-200? The 767-400 would make much more sense, seeing that it has the same rating as the 777. The A330/A340 may have common cockpits, but don't share a common rating because of the differences in engines.


User currently offlineA330/B777 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1578 times:

Now, you know the B767 and B777 don't have common ratings. So why say so?

The A330 and A340 are capable of being flown with the same crew day in day out. It is true that you need to be trained on both, but once you've learned one, the other takes a matter of days.

The other reason was that the A330-200 has a greater range and can carry more cargo.


User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4531 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1567 times:

I see your point with the cargo, but the 767-400ER and 777-200ER have identical cockpits. I guess price, cargo, and range were the factors here.

User currently offlineFlyAA757 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1007 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1562 times:

Cba, YOU ARE WRONG. The 764 and 777 do NOT have identical cockpits.

Dont state something as fact unless you know it is fact! You are quite simply, wrong.


User currently offlineA320-Addict From Belgium, joined Apr 2001, 250 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1562 times:

The A340 and A330 have as well identical cockpits
exept for throttles.....  Wink/being sarcastic and the internal systems like fuel, hydraulics are as well different.
In all day operations and for the crew the A330 and A340 are more similar than the 777 and the 767-400.


User currently offlineA330/B777 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1555 times:

Well, they are extremlly similar. About as close as an A320 is to an A340. So even though they are not cross crew compatible, it does aid in training to have a pilot that is already familiar with the general layout.

Here's a comparison though:


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Ben Wang




Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Justin Cederholm - Orlando/Tampa Aviation Photography


The 767-400 is on the top.


User currently offlineKing767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1544 times:

"Cba, YOU ARE WRONG. The 764 and 777 do NOT have identical cockpits."

Sorry, but Cba is correct, the 764 and 777 both have identical cockpits.

-Tom



User currently offlineThe Coachman From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 1425 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1534 times:

The Boeing website says nothing about common type ratings with the B767-400ER and the B777 family. All it says is that the B767 family have a common type rating with the B757's, and that includes the B767-400ER. A 764 is a 764 yes???

Have I just complicated the issue?



M88, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73G, 73H, 742, 743, 744, 752, 762, 763, 772, 773, 77W, 320, 332, 333, 345, 388, DH8, SF3 - want
User currently offlineGodbless From Sweden, joined Apr 2000, 2752 posts, RR: 16
Reply 11, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1483 times:

The cockpits of the 764 and 777 may be the same or similar but still the A330 and A340 offer more cost-cutting points since there isn't only a cockpit to save money in.... The whole planes are quite the same except for the exceptions. Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Does anybody know the exact number of A340s in AFs fleet at the moment and the number of planes still to come, and also the same with the 777?


User currently offlineL'Espace180 From France, joined Sep 2000, 938 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1489 times:

Godbless, Air France has 21 A340-300 and 1 more to come (which is a converted option), and has 14 777-200ER, and 4 more to come, plus the 10 777-300LR.

User currently offlineKing767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1460 times:

"The Boeing website says nothing about common type ratings with the B767-400ER and the B777 family. All it says is that the B767 family have a common type rating with the B757's, and that includes the B767-400ER. A 764 is a 764 yes???"

The 764 and 777, they share identical cockpits, but the reason why you do not see a common type rating between the 764 and 777 is because of the flight control systems, with the 777 being FBW. A pilot flying the 764 can easily take the differences training and be qualified for both. This is even the case with the 737NG, the only differences between the 764 and the NG are small differences with the overhead panel.

"The cockpits of the 764 and 777 may be the same or similar but still the A330 and A340 offer more cost-cutting points since there isn't only a cockpit to save money in.... The whole planes are quite the same except for the exceptions."

Alot more than the cockpit and interior of the 777 have been integrated into the 764. Various components have been taken from the 777 and put into the 764 like the carbon brakes, windows, and similar landing gear.

-Tom


User currently offlineGodbless From Sweden, joined Apr 2000, 2752 posts, RR: 16
Reply 14, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1426 times:

L'Espace180, Thank you for that information. If I would have known before that AF has more A340s to come I wouldn't have started this topic Smile/happy/getting dizzy Well, so I can say that it did help. Does anybody know anything about AF taking the 777s from Aeroflot? I heard something like that a few months ago.

User currently offlineKing767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1411 times:

I too heard about the AF/SU 777 deal, a while back. I don't know what the status of that is, but I did hear that SU is planning to bring the 777 back to JFK, so the deal might have been off.

-Tom


User currently offlineTom_EDDF From Germany, joined Apr 2000, 451 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1384 times:

I guess one possible reason for taking the 777 instead of e.g. the A345 and A346 is the available engine choice. AF has a strong commitment to GE (and therefore CFM as well), which is available with the 777, while the 345/346 are only available with the RR Trent.

A few years ago, AF forced airbus to offer the A318 with the CFM56, while it was originaly planned with the PW2000 only.

Tom.


User currently offlineSteman From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 1356 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1372 times:

According to the homepage of our friend The777man,
Air France has 17 B777-200ER in service, 7 more on order and the 10 B777-300ER on order for a grand total of 34.
If the total of A340s ordered is 21, I think there are less in service because some where leased by Sabena (but maybe they are not counted in the total and they were -200 examples) and at least one has been lost in an accident on the ground.
I would like to understand in which way 777s and A340s serve different markets, for example, 777 used on JFK and A340 used on DFW, aren't them both US destinations?

Ciao

Stefano


User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7965 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1370 times:

I think AF has both the A340-300 and 777-200ER for increased operational flexibility.

One thing that the 772ER has over the A343 is you can put in more premium seating and carry slightly more cargo on the plane. That allows AF to fly the 772ER on routes that has as much emphasis on cargo traffic as on passenger traffic (CDG-EWR, CDG-ORD, CDG-GIG, and CDG to the Middle East).

Currently, AF flies the A343 to SFO during the winter low season; it'll be interesting to see once AF completes its 772ER order will they switch to using the 772ER on the CDG-SFO route in the winter and assign the A343 to other AF long international routes.


User currently offlineMriihi From Finland, joined Aug 2000, 54 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1333 times:

nice planes both, glad they have'em both. That gives you the possibility to fly both.

M


User currently offlineSkyhooked From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1301 times:

Hello all.
Interesting thread as people have rather set opinions.
Just in order to add my grain of salt :
The 340's are here to stay,at least for a long while,along with the 777's AND the 330's that have been ordered.
As for to-day,both the 340 and the 330 will be part of one division and aircrews will be ,as we say "double rated" and fly,according to their roster either one on a particular block.Of course,the utilization of these aircraft will be different,the main difference being not (as anybody would think) a matter of systems or the number of throttles or the hydraulics,but their line operations ie ETOPS ( on the 330) or not.
The 767-400 ,as the 767-300 of which we're getting rid does'nt fit our system because of their container carrying capability,as AF carries a great deal of cargo.
As a final point,AF is rather desperate for new airplanes as the airline expansion is still very strong.So watch in the near future for continuing orders,both of 777's and 3230/340's,I hope.


User currently offlineAltoun From France, joined Feb 2001, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (13 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1292 times:

I am sorry, it's not really the subject, but it is our duty to correct the failures in thoses replies, so:
A318 - will be powered by CFM56-5 or PW6000 engines.


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