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Delta Luggage Delivered In DEN Soaked In Jet Fuel?  
User currently offlinejnj561 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 36 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 2 months 4 hours ago) and read 9604 times:
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This is scary on several levels, but if this really happened in SJU and these bags flew in the hold (and I assumed transferred in ATL) I think it is even worse...

How would something like this even happen? Would it be a plausible accident, or would the bags have to have been purposely doused in JET A?

JNJ

http://www.9news.com/news/local/article.aspx?storyid=132835&catid=222

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 4 hours ago) and read 9555 times:

Hmmm, something smell to me about this story. Not that her bag wasn't soaked; that's clearly established but I have my doubts for some reason that it happend in SJU. Then again, there are bad apples everywhere. I can see that the bag was probably damaged by someone neglegence somewhere (could very well be SJU) and they guy/ gal didn't want to fess up in fear of getting in trouble so they loaded the bag anyway to pass the buck.

Either way, un-acceptable and i'm sure there will be a thorough internal investingation. Shit rolls down hill as they sill. From what i've seen in the past with Delta (I worked for them briefly) ramp managers will come down hard on the sups.; the sups will come down on the ramp guys and they'll most likely get to the bottom of it.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineMetJetCEO From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 409 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 1 hour ago) and read 9134 times:

If the term soaked is used, would the bulk of the fuel not evaporate with that long of a transit? If fuel was present I would assume it happened at the destination.

User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21414 posts, RR: 60
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months ago) and read 9022 times:

Maybe it was soaked from rain, but also smelled of jetfuel due to being put on the apron in a puddle of fuel/water runoff collected from the rain?

Just a thought...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2309 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8713 times:

Quoting MetJetCEO (Reply 2):
If the term soaked is used, would the bulk of the fuel not evaporate with that long of a transit? If fuel was present I would assume it happened at the destination.

First of all we're talking about a petroleum product not water. Pour some gas or diesel on your luggage and see how long it takes to "evaporate". The smell will linger for days, which means it could have happened at SJU or ATL.



The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently offlinehiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2153 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8521 times:

just a passing thought but in the past rampers would put open carts of bags under a wing if it rained....and I have seen overfueling where fuel out of the wingtip contaminated the bags from just wind carried spray during a storm...

just a thought.


User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6265 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7662 times:

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 3):
Maybe it was soaked from rain, but also smelled of jetfuel due to being put on the apron in a puddle of fuel/water runoff collected from the rain?

I've got to imagine it's pretty easy to tell the difference between a rain soaked bag with a fuel smell, and a flat our fuel soaked bag


User currently offlineFutureATP From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 220 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7419 times:

I see luggage and equipment parked under the wings all the time. I know for a fact that rampers are told not leave bags and equipment under the wings for this reason. More than likely the high level ( or volumetric top off depending on aircraft type) failed and the wing vented fuel. Quite understandible as aircraft fuel gauges are quite commonly 200-400lbs err and especially if it was a 737 that vented as there is no way for the FUELER to test the high levels.

the majority of aircraft are fueled where all the fuel goes into the wings and and then if the load is more than the capacity of the wings, the rest in the center, and then the aux...... (the DC-10 and 727 are the only airplanes I have touched that are not fuel load planned this way, i have never fueled an L1011 and know its a quite complicated airplane to fuel.) Then as fuel is burned its, its out of the center first then out of the wings (I konw its just a little more complex than that...but not much)

737s and A319/A320s are the biggest offenders I witness when it comes to venting fuel on the ramp. 737 because you cannont test the high levels while fueling. The airbus 319/320 when fueled in auto mode.....with Jet Blue being #1 on the list because of how they had their planes programed, the wings just dont shut off in time when the computer realizes capacity has been exceeded. I believe Jet Blue has addressed this issue. Airbus as has 4 separate programs for the their narrow bodies just for refueling. -that last sentence came straight from an airline auditor.

Jet Blue and US Airways require their Airbus narrow bodies to be fueled in auto mode. United does when the load is under 28K. Frontier requires manual fueling....ie the fueler pays attention to the gauges and stops flow of fuel them self when desired quantity is reached.

But anyway.....this does happen although rare. And the ramp was at fault for having equip and luggage under the wing. (Unless of course it was stacked on the ground downhill from the spill)


User currently offlineYVPHX From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 245 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7298 times:

I disagree with FutureATP on US Airways being fueled in Auto mode. Maybe at the airport you work at, but in PHX there is a swissport fueler standing next to the gauge on number 1 side with a rope in hand to match up the required pounds to his sheet and then letting go of the rope when the desired weight has been achieved.

If this is automode fueling, then I apologize.

As far as being soaked in jet fuel, I think it could be possible if it fell off a cart near a fueling truck, or like others have said, the wing vent was overloaded and came down on it. I highly doubt anything was intentional for that to happen. It would almost have to be thrown out or discarded as hazmat if the bag was SOAKED with jet fuel.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6993 times:

Even with the possible explanations; fuel spills had always been treated as a "big deal" here in Atlanta. Even the smallest spilage. Our safety guys would be called out to write up a report and the ASIG ppl would have to come out and lay down the dirt/padding/whatever to soak up the fuel.

I don't see how it would be missed by a sup., etc.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6264 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6921 times:

Quoting jnj561 (Thread starter):
Would it be a plausible accident, or would the bags have to have been purposely doused in JET A?

Fuel spills are a fact of life when you are dealing with the business of refueling aircraft...but you would think that the other employees on the ramp would be careful enough not to put say, a loaded baggage cart in an area where this could happen, especially while the aircraft is being fueled.

Quoting MetJetCEO (Reply 2):
If the term soaked is used, would the bulk of the fuel not evaporate with that long of a transit?

Jet A is very similar to diesel fuel, it is a heavy petroleum grade with a low vapor pressure and a high vapor temperature (which means it doesn't evaporate very easily   ). It also smells horrible in unburnt form (yes, I have first hand experience...let me say I ruined my mom's Maytag by washing my work overalls in them after a major fuel spill where I managed to soak myself in Jet A  ).



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineGothamSpotter From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6647 times:

Any way it might have been deice fluid accidentally sprayed on the luggage cart at DEN?

User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6616 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 10):
Jet A is very similar to diesel fuel, it is a heavy petroleum grade with a low vapor pressure and a high vapor temperature

In short: Its kerosene.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4055 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5356 times:

This is a story taken from the media. This is just a bunch of dis-information as usual from the mainstream media idiots. Chances are the facts are actually something different altogether.


Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5067 times:

Quoting brilondon (Reply 13):
This is a story taken from the media. This is just a bunch of dis-information as usual from the mainstream media idiots. Chances are the facts are actually something different altogether

Whilst I can perhaps agree to an extent, on principle, surely your comment is somewhat contradictory and arrogant........how can one claim something to be mere "disinformation as usual", but yet equally state "Chances are the facts are actually something different altogether"???? In other words, you don't know any of the facts of it at all, right?


User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3688 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4849 times:
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Quoting YVPHX (Reply 8):
I disagree with FutureATP on US Airways being fueled in Auto mode. Maybe at the airport you work at, but in PHX there is a swissport fueler standing next to the gauge on number 1 side with a rope in hand to match up the required pounds to his sheet and then letting go of the rope when the desired weight has been achieved.

If this is automode fueling, then I apologize.

That's automode. On the MD-11 we push three buttons and let the fuel flow. 1-2-3 Auto is what we say, and if we need gas in the upper aux, then we'll move it up there. The 747 is the same way, open the valves and fill her up. We just have to monitor it for fuel quantity.



Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineRIPCORDD From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1126 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4766 times:

It was prob something else other than fuel like maybe someone taking a bottle of rum from PR. The ramp would never never load a bag that smelled like jet fuel or anything else like it. People pack all sorts of crazy stuff in their luggage and it does break and leak and it does get on other peoples luggage.

User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6265 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4545 times:

Quoting brilondon (Reply 13):
This is just a bunch of dis-information as usual

Got any facts to back up that statement?


User currently offlinefwyakcub From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 5 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4479 times:
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Is there a fuel surcharge for this?  

User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6265 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4332 times:

Quoting fwyakcub (Reply 18):
Is there a fuel surcharge for this?

  


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2980 times:

Quoting fwyakcub (Reply 18):
Is there a fuel surcharge for this?  

Another A.net classic reply!!!   



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineRobINDYHP From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 84 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2912 times:

And they paid for there bags to fly!!!

User currently offlineocracoke From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 676 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2816 times:

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 4):
First of all we're talking about a petroleum product not water. Pour some gas or diesel on your luggage and see how long it takes to "evaporate". The smell will linger for days, which means it could have happened at SJU or ATL.

Not all petroleum products flash off at the same rate. Diesel/kerosene, yes, will linger for a long while. Gasoline not so long. Then there are products such as mineral spirits or naphtha which will evaporate from a surface in a matter of seconds, faster than even water, leaving no smell or trace behind.

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 14):
Whilst I can perhaps agree to an extent, on principle, surely your comment is somewhat contradictory and arrogant........

Anything worthwile to add, or just contributing nothing again to another thread?


User currently offlinejnj561 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 36 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2428 times:
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Follow up article - after originally claiming the bags were soaked in deicing fluid, Delta confirms that 'wet weather and a minor fuel spill in Atlanta' caused damage to 8 passenger bags.'

http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=132921

http://www.9news.com/rss/article.aspx?storyid=132964

JNJ


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