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Production Of 747-8 Intercontinental Has Started.  
User currently offline747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 2155 posts, RR: 14
Posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 23584 times:

Boeing has confirmed that Vought has begun sub-assembly production of RC001, the first 747-8i.
Vought has begun manufacturing floor beams and frames for Boeing's new passenger jumbo.

Final assembly for RC001 is expected to begin in May.

see : http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fl...oeing-suppliers-begin-product.html

[Edited 2010-02-18 00:11:05]


Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
96 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4329 posts, RR: 35
Reply 1, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 23558 times:

Does anyone know which line number this first 748i will have? If it's for example # 1429 it means they build 9 freighters first (1420-1428).


nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineEmirates2005 From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 238 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 23079 times:

I am still very pessimistic about the success of this program. 748F will do fine, but with so many other choices on the market: 773, 789/10, 359/10, 388; I just do not see the investment logic.

It has been mentioned a zillion times on A.net that the 747 design, even with the new upgrade is an old one. The future of passenger transport will be shaped by the likes of the Dreamliner, XWB and the 380.



A310, A332, B732, B738, B742, B743, B773, B77W, DC-10, ATR42, TU-134, TU-154, IL-62, MI-8, E190, A320, C172
User currently offline2175301 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1072 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 22827 times:

Quoting Emirates2005 (Reply 4):
I am still very pessimistic about the success of this program. 748F will do fine, but with so many other choices on the market: 773, 789/10, 359/10, 388; I just do not see the investment logic.

It has been mentioned a zillion times on A.net that the 747 design, even with the new upgrade is an old one. The future of passenger transport will be shaped by the likes of the Dreamliner, XWB and the 380.

The 748I fills a slightly different niche than the A380. Not all routes can fill an A380, and not all airports can handle an A380.

As such, I see a modest number of 748I's being built. Given that it is an upgrade to an old design the development cost are much less than for a new plane (A380) and overall it will approximately work out financially. The real payoff will be for the 748F.


User currently offlineEmirates2005 From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 238 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 22700 times:

Quoting 2175301 (Reply 6):
As such, I see a modest number of 748I's being built. Given that it is an upgrade to an old design the development cost are much less than for a new plane (A380) and overall it will approximately work out financially. The real payoff will be for the 748F.

Exactly right. The 748F will be the long term winner in this family. I also agree on the niche market. I just wonder if such a niche market is worth spending so much money on..748i is not exactly cheap to the airlines. And specially when less costly and newer designs already grace the sky...e.g. 77W.

I guess I have this little child's dream to see a Lufthansa-branded 77W.



A310, A332, B732, B738, B742, B743, B773, B77W, DC-10, ATR42, TU-134, TU-154, IL-62, MI-8, E190, A320, C172
User currently offlineebj1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 22586 times:

Perhaps once it gets into service and passengers and the airlines see what it brings to the market, orders will improve. As has been said before, the A380 is too much airplane for some airlines and some airports. Lufthansa saw a need for the 748i and now so has Korean Airlines. Perhaps those orders are the start of something bigger.


Dare to dream; dream big!
User currently offlinemanfredj From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 22537 times:

Quoting Emirates2005 (Reply 4):
I am still very pessimistic about the success of this program.

I can't get over my opinion that this is just another varaint of the 747. In that case, it is already a success and Boeing is very close to achieving enough orders to make the whole (748F/748i) project profitable.

Having said that, Boeing can sit back, relax, and know they don't have to sell a ton of 748i's. The plus side is we are able to see new passenger 747's in the skies for many years to come.

One variable must not be overlooked: There are hundreds of 747's in the air. Not everyone has excluded it from their fleet. If the intercontinental proves to be efficient, we could see an ordering spree for the 748i beyond what anyone thought possible....I'm on that bandwagon.



757: The last of the best
User currently offline747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 2155 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 22537 times:

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 2):
Does anyone know which line number this first 748i will have? If it's for example # 1429 it means they build 9 freighters first (1420-1428).

According http://www.airlinerlist.com/ the first 5 747-8F line numbers are only allocated :

L/N 1420 - 747-8R7F, serialnumber 35808, first test aircraft
L/N 1421 - 747-8KZF, serialnumber 36136, second test aircraft
L/N 1422 - 747-8KZF, serialnumber 36137, third test aircraft
L/N 1423 - 747-8R7F, serialnumber 35806, first delivered aircraft?
L/N 1424 - 747-8R7F, serialnumber 35807

Has anyone more (inside) knowledge, about the planned 747-8 line numbers. ?

[Edited 2010-02-18 05:51:39]


Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4329 posts, RR: 35
Reply 8, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 22375 times:

Quoting 747classic (Reply 9):
According http://www.airlinerlist.com/ the first 5 747-8F line numbers

LOL, I am the founder of airlinerlist.com but thanks anyway  



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineIrishpower From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 386 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 21824 times:

LH is the launch customer, right? Does anyone know what the registration numbers will be of the new planes? D-????

User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13154 posts, RR: 100
Reply 10, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 21551 times:
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Quoting 747classic (Thread starter):
Final assembly for RC001 is expected to begin in May.

Exciting! When does flight testing start?

Quoting 2175301 (Reply 5):
and not all airports can handle an A380.

Nor will all airports that handle the 744 be instantly ready for the 748I (due to the wind-span increase). I suspect that the number of airports that cannot handle an A380 and can handle (or be cheaply modified to handle) a 748 will be small. As in SEA, ATL, and ????

Quoting manfredj (Reply 8):
If the intercontinental proves to be efficient, we could see an ordering spree for the 748i beyond what anyone thought possible....I'm on that bandwagon.

I'm on that bandwagon too. Now the KE order wasn't large, but it will keep the 748 program going until other customers can evaluate.

For too long the 'large' airframe (744) has suffered a CASM penalty versus smaller airframes: 77W, A333, 763ER (tie on TATL CASM). So for years it made zero sense to buy a 744. Now we'll have two VLA's with improved CASM where each competes on its own merits.

Personally, the volume of 748I sales could very well depend on its payload/range performance. In other words, if Boeing/GE can beat expectations than there is merit for a mid-east or Indian carrier to order the type. (e.g., BOM-JFK or DOH-SFO). Due to A380 production delays, there is a five to seven year 'window' where A380 customers might buy both a la LH and KE!

Honestly, some 'skuttlebut' I've heard about the 748I and the KE order make me far more optimistic on the type.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineMoltenRock From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 20889 times:

Quoting Emirates2005 (Reply 6):
Exactly right. The 748F will be the long term winner in this family. I also agree on the niche market. I just wonder if such a niche market is worth spending so much money on..748i is not exactly cheap to the airlines. And specially when less costly and newer designs already grace the sky...e.g. 77W.

I highly doubt the 748i will ever be a profitable model, and will struggle to get to 100 aircraft and may not sell more than 50 to 75. I can see the 748 freighter sell 200 to 250 examples over its life.


User currently offlinesejowa From United States of America, joined May 2006, 352 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 20770 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 12):
Honestly, some 'skuttlebut' I've heard about the 748I and the KE order make me far more optimistic on the type.

Now that's exciting! Very good news! Thank you for sharing!


User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 20528 times:

Quoting Irishpower (Reply 11):
LH is the launch customer, right? Does anyone know what the registration numbers will be of the new planes? D-????

Can't say which registration numbers they will have, but for LH, it should definitely be in the customary D-AB** format for Boeing aircraft.


User currently offlineacabgd From Serbia, joined Jul 2005, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 20525 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 12):
Exciting! When does flight testing start?

What testing? Are they going to have to separately test the -8F and the -8I ?? If so, I really don't see why, it's really the same airplane.



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User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 15, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 20442 times:

Quoting acabgd (Reply 16):
Are they going to have to separately test the -8F and the -8I ??

Yes.

Quoting acabgd (Reply 16):
If so, I really don't see why, it's really the same airplane.

Because although they're part of the same family, they're still two different aircraft (don't forget the stretched upper deck on the -8I).


User currently offlineairproxx From France, joined Jun 2008, 638 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 20270 times:

Quoting ebj1248650 (Reply 7):
Perhaps once it gets into service and passengers and the airlines see what it brings to the market, orders will improve. As has been said before, the A380 is too much airplane for some airlines and some airports. Lufthansa saw a need for the 748i and now so has Korean Airlines. Perhaps those orders are the start of something bigger.

  

Yep! Just like how the start of the 777 was!
The A380 is a limited airplane. Some will say that it's just a matter of time until airports would be redesigned to welcome the whale.
Anyway the 748i has a reason to be since it is NOT an A380 competitor! The seat range niche it points is clearly between the 77W/A346 and the A380.
There's indeed a gap that this plane fills perfectly.

I was wondering if the 748i performances could enable her to serve airports like St Marteens straight to Europe...
Maybe some A.net dutch fellows could bring a light to this   ....

As a childhood 747 dreamer, I'd love to see this plane in KLM or AF livery.. Who knows...

Cheers

Dave



If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two impostors just the same
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31057 posts, RR: 87
Reply 17, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 19960 times:
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Quoting lightsaber (Reply 12):
Honestly, some 'skuttlebut' I've heard about the 748I and the KE order make me far more optimistic on the type.

I've been long on record saying I think the program was a mistake, but KE buying it as well did stoke a bit of hope.

However, I think CASM is going to play a much bigger role in the potential success of the plane. Based on current projections, a 747-8 will fly as far as a 747-400ER at MZFW (~6200nm). And yet the 747-400ER only sold a grand total of six frames to one carrier - QF. UA was interested, but just couldn't afford it.

CX has also been said to be interested because it would have effectively eliminated the tech stops when winds aloft were really poor, but the extra operating costs year-round outweighed the savings so they stayed with the 747-400 (and then went with the 777-300ER - which split the difference by offering an extra 500nm range at MZFW). So I don't think they will order the plane based on P/R, but if the CASM can get close to the 77W...

The 747-8 is in the ballpark of the A380-800 on range, with the caveat that the A380-800 will carry more across that distance and will be adding hundreds of nautical miles in range with later tranches. However, LH and KE might be seeing the 747-8 and A380-800 as a "complimentary pair" because they have "comparable" performance and economics. So it would possibly give an airline flexibility to tailor capacity to traffic demand year-round on a route. During the "high season" you send the A380-800 and during the "low season" you send the 747-8.

If the 747-8 can indeed stay close to the A380-800 in performance and economics, this might get other A380 customers to add the 747-8 - including customers like BA who have to date formally rejected the type, but still have a significant 747-400 fleet needing eventual replacement.


User currently offline747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 2155 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 19534 times:

Quoting Irishpower (Reply 11):
LH is the launch customer, right? Does anyone know what the registration numbers will be of the new planes? D-????

Lufthansa 747-830, serial numbers 37826 until/incl 37845. Planned registrations D-ABY...

Remarkable is the following : 37826 D-ABYB, 37827 D-ABYA , 37828 D-ABYC , 37829 D-ABYE , further according alphabet until/incl. D-ABYU (missing D-ABYD ????)



Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
User currently offlineVirginblue4 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 912 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 19384 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 12):
Nor will all airports that handle the 744 be instantly ready for the 748I (due to the wind-span increase).

Directly from newairplane.com:

"Key geometric similarities between the 747-8 and other airplanes in the 747 fleet - such as engine span and wheeltrack width - mean that airport need not modify runways for the new airplane. Every airport that accepts a 747 today can accomodate the 747-8. With over 900 747s flying to more than 200 cities around the world, airlines and airports are ready for the 747-8."

So if i understand this correctly, all airports are ready now, and no modifications are needed for wing span etc....

Jordan



The amazing tale of flight.
User currently offlineea772lr From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 19260 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 19):
Based on current projections, a 747-8 will fly as far as a 747-400ER at MZFW (~6200nm).

Really? Even tho the 748 enjoys a ~400nm nominal range advantage??

Quoting Stitch (Reply 19):
So it would possibly give an airline flexibility to tailor capacity to traffic demand year-round on a route. During the "high season" you send the A380-800 and during the "low season" you send the 747-8.

What would an airline do with A380s when loads don't warrant such a large plane? That seems like an expensive plane to buy for seasonal use only.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 19):
KE buying it as well did stoke a bit of hope.

   Indeed. I was happily surprised, no matter what the circumstances were for KE to order it, I was still happy to see another major carrier choose the 748I. Only icing on the cake that they also have A380s, because between them and LH, their orders demonstrate that the A380/748I can coexist with the same carrier. There's still an awful lot of 744s to be replaced... 



We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
User currently offlineincitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4019 posts, RR: 13
Reply 21, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 17943 times:

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 11):
I highly doubt the 748i will ever be a profitable model, and will struggle to get to 100 aircraft and may not sell more than 50 to 75. I can see the 748 freighter sell 200 to 250 examples over its life.

Someone once posted in a.net a strategy hypothesis of how the A380 was created to prevent Boeing from raking in profits at the high end of the market. This would weaken Boeing's financial position. Ultimately such a hit would reflect in Boeing's entire line-up, giving Airbus an advantage. A similar hypothesis can be assembled for the 747-8i. Boeing is offering a less capable product, but one airlines might be willing to settle for. If the 747-8i helps decrease the chance that the A380 is a financial success, it will have accomplished its mission.



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User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31057 posts, RR: 87
Reply 22, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 17739 times:
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Quoting ea772lr (Reply 20):
Really? Even tho the 748 enjoys a ~400nm nominal range advantage??

According to Boeing's latest ACAPs, range at MZFW for the 747-8 is 6200nm and for the 747-400ER, it is 6250nm. *shrug*

Quoting ea772lr (Reply 20):
What would an airline do with A380s when loads don't warrant such a large plane? That seems like an expensive plane to buy for seasonal use only.

The world is a mighty big place. Certain destinations are the "hot ticket" during certain parts of the year. The Northern Hemisphere likes to visit each other during the Spring and Summer, for example, but during the Fall and Winter they head to the Southern Hemisphere (where it is Spring and Summer). So you swap the planes around your system as traffic rises and falls. Many airlines do it today with their 747s, 777s/A340s and 767s/A330s.


User currently offlineArabAirX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 17467 times:

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 11):
I highly doubt the 748i will ever be a profitable model, and will struggle to get to 100 aircraft and may not sell more than 50 to 75

Jim McNerney claimed that the 747-8 program (passenger and freighter) would be profitable if they secured 340 sales.

They are a third of the way there already. If LH takes up its options, thats 40x 747-8i's right there along with BBJ and KE's order pushes that beyond 50 frames just for the passenger jet.


User currently offlineea772lr From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 17424 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 22):
According to Boeing's latest ACAPs, range at MZFW for the 747-8 is 6200nm and for the 747-400ER, it is 6250nm. *shrug*

Why do think the extra 400nm of nominal range hasn't translated into better range @ MZFW vs. the 744ER??

Quoting Stitch (Reply 22):
So you swap the planes around your system as traffic rises and falls. Many airlines do it today with their 747s, 777s/A340s and 767s/A330s.

Yeah I figured that's where you were going with it.   



We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
25 Kit777 : While I gather that more certification is required for the 748i after the 748F, I'm curious as to what this certification involves and whether the fac
26 N328KF : Well, the A380 certainly kept someone from raking in profits at the high end of the market, and it wasn't Boeing.
27 Post contains images LTU932 : This means that LH is resurrecting the registrations of the original 747-100 and -200 they received.
28 Flighty : I think so too. The top of the world airline market is pretty big, and will get bigger. The 748's job is not to be a super 77W. In my view it utterly
29 ikramerica : This makes sense. The 748 can carry more the same distance much more efficiently, but as it sheds a ton in payload and adds a ton in fuel, it flies f
30 Post contains images SEPilot : Hopefully not before construction is complete. The different hump changes the aerodynamics considerably; it is a different plane and must be tested s
31 rwessel : This first 748i appears to be one of the VIPs, and not from the LH order.
32 columba : They will carry the original registrations of the LH 747-130s D-ABY* I have heard that D-ABYB will be left out because it was the registration of a 7
33 incitatus : Comparisons of range at maximum payload (MZFW) are deceiving. Not to dwell on aircraft we know, I am going to use a non-existing example. Assume a ne
34 nomadd22 : Why should it? Lower range@MZFW just means the structure of the plane can handle more cargo, so customers have the flexibility to trade fuel for carg
35 LHCVG : How much expense is tied up in 748i-specific parts? As in, when what is their break even when accounting for 748Fs too? They had to devote some amoun
36 Post contains images lightsaber : As already noted, very different certification. Oh, aircraft stall/field/other performance is done. But they must re-do fire suppresion (different sy
37 kimon : The best plane ever built! Reloaded and revamped! Boeing have no intention to supplant the 748 and never will! Nothing beats it!
38 airproxx : Amen.
39 Eightball : I think it would be absolutely sweet to see a 747-8i in the SV livery.[Edited 2010-02-18 15:40:37]
40 tdscanuck : They're up to, at least, 1427. There are four birds on the flightline now, plus another three assembled ones in the factory (you can see them on the
41 MoltenRock : If, if, if, if.... 340 seems about right to me given the bloated cost overruns that have decimated the program. It's too bad really, because it's not
42 Post contains images ArabAirX : Quite frankly, Airbus would love the A380 to be in the same position as the 747-8 family. If we're talking about cost overruns, then the 747-8s probl
43 MoltenRock : Who the heck is talking about Airbus in this thread? They have plenty of blame to get to for their screw up, but that's for another thread, not this
44 747classic : I fully agree, part of the extra write-off's on the 748 program can actually be put directly on the 787 bill. Also the future additional costs of the
45 Post contains images ArabAirX : Plenty of people have - read above. On the contrary, its quite pertinent when both the A380 and 747-8 are in the same VLA market, both of which are f
46 MoltenRock : Yup, absolutely. But over the next 20 years the freighter market is going to be much larger as a % of sales than it has been for both Airbus and Boei
47 747classic : Fully correct, D-ABYB registration is not used because of the Nairobi crash. Checking several other aviation sites for the correct registrations of t
48 Delta763 : I think the new runway is probably sprawled out well enough to handle it. It may not take much to say the airport is 380-ready. There's just no inter
49 Stitch : Well the 747-8 program is standing on the back of the 747 family members that came before it. So even if the 747-8 herself doesn't achieve break-even
50 incitatus : Companies do not simply make all moves based on solid business cases & ROI. I have witnessed up close situations where the business case goes out
51 Post contains images ea772lr : This is a point far too often forgotten IMHO. the 748 program was not 'free' for Boeing because of the previous 747 models, but the 748 program is gr
52 Post contains links NA : A beauty for sure. SV´s livery is among the best on a 747. And its not unlikely that they will buy a handful of them. The 741s are on the way out, th
53 PH-BFA : Interesting quote from McNerney on Flight Global about the 747-8, would be great news. I am wondering which airlines he is referring to. "I think you'
54 LHCVG : So if that's the case, am I right to understand that, accounting-wise, any 748 they sell is beneficial even if practically speaking building 1 or 2 7
55 Post contains images Stitch : This is line of reasoning I can get behind. It's the line of reasoning put forward by people that Boeing created the 747-8 solely to "deny" Airbus pr
56 ikramerica : I think it's like that now, because 748i production is now beginning. Yes, they could in theory still cancel the program, not pay for the flight test
57 RobK : I think a firing order reshuffle must have taken place if it's due for final assembly in May. I have the allocations through 1435 from December and t
58 lightsaber : I agree with the reasoning. Although I wonder if 30 frames will pay for the all the 748I modifications? Or maybe a better way of phrasing it is there
59 LHCVG : That's what I've been thinking. All the handwringing over whether they will keep the 748i seems moot since the costs are so low relatively speaking.
60 Post contains images Superfly : I'm on that bandwagon too! Long life 4-engine jetliners! I'd love to see the interior shots of that aircraft. I know this will never happen but I'd l
61 ArabAirX : ...always a higher prospect of a combi version too. LH has operated them in the past and would likely be prime candidate for the -8i to follow suit.
62 SpeedyGonzales : The wingspan exceeds the 65m of ICAO code E, putting it in code F with A380, so saying that any airport the handles 747s can handle the -8 is stretch
63 2175301 : Technically true. However, in the vast majority of those cases all that is needed is a waiver to be filed. When I looked at the situation a few years
64 FlyingClrs727 : The FAA won't certify any future combi versions.
65 747classic : This quote , I have seen more on A.net. Where can I find proof that the FAA doesn't certify combi aircraft ? IIRC, it will be more demanding with ada
66 aerorobNZ : From what I hear from our engineers the 748 is turning out to be very efficient in testing for a 4 engined ac, even compared to say a twin like the 7
67 Stitch : To be clear, they will not certify a combi aircraft with a non-fixed partition between the passenger and cargo areas. AS converted some of their pass
68 MD-90 : I would love to see it in AA's livery. All that bare shiny metal would really make it stand out from any other 744 or A380. And then I scrolled on do
69 Post contains images lightsaber : Which 5? For I've only been able to identify 2 airports that would operate the 748I easy and not the A388 (maybe 3: SEA, ATL, BOM). So far we've seen
70 LHCVG : I hadn't seen anything on that yet, but an interesting possibility. Just like the old days! When I was little I used to sit and watch the SR combi's
71 XT6Wagon : Too bad ICAO codes are meaningless. All the major airliners have thier own special airport compatiblity rules. Airbus for example has managed to argu
72 frmrCAPCADET : It is frequently the use of "solely", "always", "never", "absolutely", and the sort that changes an otherwise OK, fair, acceptable, or even good post
73 Gemuser : And this is a problem for LH how? Now if you had said that EASA won't certify a combi, that would be different, but I would certainly ask for some ev
74 PH-BFA : Not for LH, but for other potential customers such as KLM it is... PH-BFA
75 NicoEDDF : Absolutely and utterly not. I would bet big money on LH not buying anymore combi aircraft in the future. Combis are disappearing more and more, being
76 Pellegrine : Well the 747-200 and 747-400 Combi was a fixed barrier. The 747-200 Convertible was not.
77 Post contains links and images lightsaber : New Combi's are being studied! We might see a 748 combi! But the added requirements are adding cost, so do not hold your breath. I expect the first '
78 Gemuser : And this will be a problem for KLM, how?? Gemuser
79 Gemuser : It was a QF B747-238B in to the 90' wide strip at Longreach, Queensland, Australia, the site of the Qantas founders museum. Gemuser
80 aircellist : Does that mean Farnborough? Most probably not Air Canada... Shame... 747s were very nice in their colours.
81 Post contains images lightsaber : Thank you! Oh boy... I was recalling the wrong continent. One heck of a landing. Lightsaber
82 PH-BFA : Yes I understand that it is in fact more Boeing's problem if KLM would not order the 747-8, just trying to point out that KLM would most likely never
83 Post contains links CCA : I think you were after this one, SAA 747SP landing at Rand airport where the runway is only 15M or 50' wide! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGziYTZfd
84 Gemuser : I was referring to the fact that the lack of FAA certification is irrelevant to KLM. The question no one seems to be able to answer is does EASA have
85 jfk787nyc : Yes, Exactly and this market will continue to grow and grow as the whole world seems to becomes much smaller with global trade of smaller goods.
86 jfk787nyc : I would not be surprised to see a order for around 5 7478i from LY most likely. The 777 is just too small for some of there routes meanwhile this is t
87 PH-BFA : But if they don't have FAA approval, can KL still use the aircraft to fly to the US? PH-BFA
88 Post contains images lightsaber : Thank you! I do not feel so My hat is off to those pilots. 90' wide or 50' wide that is one heck of a landing. Best not to do it on wet (saturated wa
89 Post contains images 747classic : The 777-300ER is a nice replacement for the 5 747-400 all pax aircraft and one or two 747-400 combi aircraft now operating the full cargo configurati
90 Gemuser : Of course they can! KLM is a Dutch airline (obviously) not a US airline, so provided the aircraft is certified by its national airworthiness authorit
91 Post contains links 747classic : The first 747-8I will be L/N 1437 (shipset 18). Seventeen (17) 747-8F aircraft will be build before the first 747-8I, probably a 747-8BBJ for a custo
92 lightsaber : No doubt. Hence why I pointed out the 77W was meeting 'more than half' the combi demand. As you point out, in this economic environment, it shifts fl
93 pnwtraveler : I think we will see the widely hinted Asian carrier announce their order in the time frame Boeing is talking about. Who else is not coming to mind. I
94 Post contains links Tugger : Does anyone have the pricing for the 747-8i? I see the published 8F pricing: 747-8 Freighter $301.5 -- $304.5 (in millions) http://www.boeing.com/comm
95 Post contains images Gemuser : So not a yes/no answer When you say "in line with the fire suppression changes" do those changes include a fix bulkhead requirement as part of the fi
96 Stitch : General estimates from aircraft valuation firms are LH received 40% off the list, though some a.netters are adamant it was at least 60% off, if not m
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