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Greek Aviation  
User currently offlinepanais From Cyprus, joined May 2008, 463 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8695 times:

There are a number of events that are taking place that will affect the Greek Aviation market starting this summer.

1. Olympic Air and Aegean will merge to create an airline that can be dominant in the home market and a very serious player in the European market.
2. Because of the financial crisis many tourists will think that Greece is cheap right now and they will want to travel to take advantage of the lower prices. Hahaha.   
3. The government wants to invest in the new company and may use the 4 A340-300 that are currently parked as startup capital and to give long haul capabilities to the new company from day 1.
4. Eurocypria is getting a capital injection and will keep flying at least for this summer.
5. Cyprus Airways is getting new and nearly new A320s to replace the old ones in its fleet, with a better business class seating.

I am wondering if all 4 airlines plus the two governments of Greece and Cyprus should merge their operations.
Maybe this is the only thing that can save all of them.

Any opinions?

106 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineANITIX87 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 3308 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8680 times:
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Quoting panais (Thread starter):
3. The government wants to invest in the new company and may use the 4 A340-300 that are currently parked as startup capital and to give long haul capabilities to the new company from day 1.

Oh yes. What a wonderful idea. Government controlled airlines have fared SO WELL in Greek aviation lately. Ugh. Instead of investing in your own airline to compete with Olympic, why let MIG run with the current flag carrier and ensure things go smoothly??

I've only heard good things about the new Olympic, so it's natural to think that, with the merger with Aegean, things will only continue to grow and move smoothly. Can't the government let OA be? They screwed up royally (several times) and it's time they accept that and stay away from the airlines.

TIS



www.stellaryear.com: Canon EOS 50D, Canon EOS 5DMkII, Sigma 50mm 1.4, Canon 24-70 2.8L II, Canon 100mm 2.8L, Canon 100-4
User currently offlineTobias2702 From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 721 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8668 times:

Quoting panais (Thread starter):
1. Olympic Air and Aegean will merge to create an airline that can be dominant in the home market and a very serious player in the European market.

Has the merger really been confirmed yet? Today, A3 and OA have more or less the same network, so even when merged they would be a regional airline feeding for (presumably) Star Alliance.


Quoting panais (Thread starter):
2. Because of the financial crisis many tourists will think that Greece is cheap right now and they will want to travel to take advantage of the lower prices. Hahaha.

I don't exactly understand what you mean. Please clarify.
edit: And most tourist arrive in Greece on foreign airlines.

Quoting panais (Thread starter):
3. The government wants to invest in the new company and may use the 4 A340-300 that are currently parked as startup capital and to give long haul capabilities to the new company from day 1.

I doubt that there will be any Greek longhaul flights over the years to come. In case OA and A3 merge, their spotlight of interest has to be shed on joining/working for an alliance (thus feeding for longhaul) and consolidating their route network and timetables. Today, neither A3 nor OA have any longhaul planes, why should a merger change anything?

[Edited 2010-02-18 06:23:44]

[Edited 2010-02-18 06:28:59]


PA, AF, UK, BA, AB, DL, LH, FR, BD, A3, EZY, DY //// A319/320/346, B733/735/73G/738/744/763, AT4, 146, CR2, DH4
User currently offlinepanais From Cyprus, joined May 2008, 463 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8633 times:

Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 2):
Has the merger really been confirmed yet? Today, A3 and OA have more or less the same network, so even when merged they would be a regional airline feeding for (presumably) Star Alliance.

Nothing yet, however, all signs lead to that. Both CEO's have met with the government and it seems a done deal in the local press.

Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 2):
Quoting panais (Thread starter):
2. Because of the financial crisis many tourists will think that Greece is cheap right now and they will want to travel to take advantage of the lower prices. Hahaha.

I don't exactly understand what you mean. Please clarify.

I was being sarcastic. People outside of Greece may start thinking that with Greece in such a financial mess, Greek business and in particular tourism will lower their prices to attract customers. I do not believe that this will be the case. But anyway, people will come and see how it looks like to live in a bankrupt country.

Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 2):
I doubt that there will be any Greek longhaul flights over the years to come. In case OA and A3 merge, their spotlight of interest has to be shed on joining an alliance (thus feeding for longhaul) and consolidating their route network and timetables. Today, neither A3 nor OA have any longhaul planes, why should a merger change anything?

You are underestimating their ambition my friend. Any Greek will wonder why will they need to feed an alliance, when they can bring the tourists from the US or Asia themselves. If the cost and price is right for them they will offer long haul.


User currently offlineTobias2702 From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 721 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8617 times:

Quoting panais (Reply 3):
You are underestimating their ambition my friend.

No doubt that the Greek are a proud people, but airline business must be financially viable rather than founded on ambitions and prestigious thinking. As the European market has changed over the past decade, I just don't see that a country with 11.3 million inhabitants can afford to launch an airline with longhaul flights. Currently, OA codeshares on DL's ATH flights. There obviously is no demand on the market for Greek metal operating longhaul flights. Rather, a Greek airline in Star Alliance can cater for much more intercontinental pax than today, without any own longhaul fleet.



PA, AF, UK, BA, AB, DL, LH, FR, BD, A3, EZY, DY //// A319/320/346, B733/735/73G/738/744/763, AT4, 146, CR2, DH4
User currently offlineAirportugal310 From Tokelau, joined Apr 2004, 3643 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8598 times:

Quoting panais (Thread starter):
3. The government wants to invest in the new company and may use the 4 A340-300 that are currently parked as startup capital and to give long haul capabilities to the new company from day 1.

From what I gather in the news, the Greek government has NO money to invest in anything! I am no expert on the subject, but it seems to me that investing in an airline already puts you at a deficit from the minute you even look at the portfolio!



I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
User currently offlinesobelair From Croatia, joined Sep 2000, 353 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8585 times:

Hi everyone

Sound funny to me, but I just read at www.ch-aviation.ch that Olympic Air lost rights to serve from ATH cities BEG and TLV...but how can this be?


User currently offlineOlympicATH From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2001, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8568 times:

Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 2):
Today, A3 and OA have more or less the same network

Not really. These are the destinations with no overlap:
OA: ALY, AMS, BEY
A3: BCN, BEG, DUS, FRA, MAD, MUC, STR, TLV, TXL, VCE

Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 4):
As the European market has changed over the past decade, I just don't see that a country with 11.3 million inhabitants can afford to launch an airline with longhaul flights. Currently, OA codeshares on SA)">DL's ATH flights. There obviously is no demand on the market for Greek metal operating longhaul flights. Rather, a Greek airline in Star Alliance can cater for much more intercontinental pax than today, without any own longhaul fleet.

How convenient when you're German. Yes, Greece is a small market. However, many smaller countries than Greece have successful long-haul carriers: Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Norway, Portugal, Sweden, Switzerland. The new OA will carry circa 11-12 million pax per year. It would be in the same size range as LX (14 million), Aeroflot (11 million) or OS (10 million). And, what a coincidence, LX and OS have successful long-haul operations and are both Star members and LH-owned.
I am not saying the new OA should resume flights to MEL or fly empty A380s to Antartica. However, ATH can support a long-haul carrier with a limited number of select destinations which are very popular to Greeks worldwide (NYC, ORD, YYZ, JNB for starters). And guess what? These are ALL major Star hubs. Could it work? YES, especially with the 787 coming up. Don't forget that ATH-JFK and ATH-YYZ were said to be profitable for the state-owned OA (not the case with YUL and JNB), so imagine the wonders a privately-run Star member could do with these routes.
Of course, Star partners could fly the routes instead. It is already the case with NYC (CO is making EWR-ATH year-round after OA dropped JFK), YYZ (AC is launching YYZ-ATH and YUL-ATH seasonal services, same reason) and perhaps SA and UA (ORD and/or IAD) could join the club. All these issues need to be discussed within Star and between airlines of course, but Greece can support a niche long-haul airline.
Lastly, MIG has made it clear since the beginning that they want to resume OA's long-haul operations some time around 2011. (The EU accepted the last privatization plan with the condition that the new airline reduce operations by 35% in terms of available seat miles... MIG had no other choice than to drop long-haul temporarily).


User currently offlineOlympicATH From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2001, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8563 times:

Quoting sobelair (Reply 6):
Sound funny to me, but I just read at www.ch-aviation.ch that Olympic Air lost rights to serve from ATH cities BEG and TLV...but how can this be?

Since OA was privatized last year, all routes that were subject to bilateral agreements were reallocated between all the Greek carriers. ATH to BEG and TLV were one-Greek-carrier routes and OA lost them to Aegean.
The two airlines are now merging so it doesn't matter that much anymore.


User currently offlineTobias2702 From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 721 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 8523 times:

Quoting OlympicATH (Reply 7):
owever, many smaller countries than Greece have successful long-haul carriers:

If you had read my post properly, you would have noticed that I wrote that I didn't think a small country like Greece could LAUNCH a longhaul airline in the current market conditions. All those countries you mentioned have long since established longhaul carriers, but all of them cut routes over the past years (which are now operated by alliance partners). Look at the former Yugoslawia: None of the countries established a longhaul carrier, nor is there one for the Baltic States. Once upon a time even Luxair had longhaul flights IIRC, but this wouldn't be viable anymore in today's world of alliances.

Quoting OlympicATH (Reply 7):
Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 2):
Today, A3 and OA have more or less the same network

Not really. These are the destinations with no overlap:
OA: ALY, AMS, BEY
A3: BCN, BEG, DUS, FRA, MAD, MUC, STR, TLV, TXL, VCE

And again I said that the networks are MOSTLY equal. The new OA cut all German routes (but I guess they would operate them if they could), leaving a difference of only a handfull of destinations. Combining A3 and OA wouldn't create a global (or even great European player), but rather sort of today's A3 with higher frequencies (and most likely a combined airline would operate less flights than the seperate ones today). Once again: Is it definite at all that OA and A3 will merge?

[Edited 2010-02-18 08:04:23]


PA, AF, UK, BA, AB, DL, LH, FR, BD, A3, EZY, DY //// A319/320/346, B733/735/73G/738/744/763, AT4, 146, CR2, DH4
User currently offlineju068 From Vanuatu, joined Aug 2009, 2646 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8474 times:
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But wasn't OA leaning towards Sky Team? Do you think that once they merge Sky Team will try to get them into the alliance, or is it straight into Star?

User currently offlineTobias2702 From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 721 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8470 times:

Quoting ju068 (Reply 10):
But wasn't OA leaning towards Sky Team? Do you think that once they merge Sky Team will try to get them into the alliance, or is it straight into Star?

You are right, OA is currently leaning towards SkyTeam (established codeshares with DL, planned with AF/KL). But by May 2010, A3 will join Star Alliance. Thus, IF the two airlines merge (i.e. a Star member + a non-aligned airline), I just cannot imagine that the combined Greek airline would leave Star and restart the long-lasting trip towards another alliance. Both A3 and OA need an alliance ASAP.



PA, AF, UK, BA, AB, DL, LH, FR, BD, A3, EZY, DY //// A319/320/346, B733/735/73G/738/744/763, AT4, 146, CR2, DH4
User currently offlineOlympicATH From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2001, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8451 times:

Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 9):
If you had read my post properly, you would have noticed that I wrote that I didn't think a small country like Greece could LAUNCH a longhaul airline in the current market conditions.

Tobias I read your post properly. I'm not talking about launching a new long-haul airline, I'm talking about resuming some long-haul services that were flown until as recently as September 2009.

Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 9):
All those countries you mentioned have long since established longhaul carriers

Olympic is a very old long-haul player.
1966: JFK
1968: JNB, NBO
1969: YUL, ORD
1972: BKK, SIN, SYD
1976: MEL
1984: NRT
1992: BOS

Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 9):
but all of them cut routes over the past years

Sure, in 2009 the only destinations OA had were JFK, YUL, YYZ and JNB, which were the best performers.


To sum up, my point is that OA is a well-established niche long-haul carrier in a few markets. MIG dropped long-haul in order to focus on building a strong operation first and because they were required to reduce operations by 35% in terms of available seat miles (the easiest way was to just cut long-haul, were the airline faced less severe competition anyway). So now it's not about launching a new long-haul airline from scratch but about resuming some operations in a modern and profitable way, taking advantage of OA's well-established presence in some markets.

[Edited 2010-02-18 09:12:44]

[Edited 2010-02-18 09:35:23]

[Edited 2010-02-18 09:36:32]

[Edited 2010-02-18 09:37:39]

User currently offlineOlympicATH From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2001, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8416 times:

Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 9):
Once again: Is it definite at all that OA and A3 will merge?

No official announcement yet, that's expected to happen next week. However, it's all over the press here:

http://www.hbnews.gr/permalink/26273.html

Olympic Aegean Air: The shareholders reached an agreement, the deal is sealed

I'm kind of busy so no time to translate. The main idea is that the two main shareholders agreed to merge the two airlines and the Greek minister of Transport and Communication gave the green light.
Aegean Airlines will absorb Olympic Air and MIG will receive a stake in the new Aegean equal to that of the Vassilakis family. (Just my 2 cents, but I thought I had to say that this does not mean the Olympic brand will disappear. According to the Greek press it is the opposite, the Aegean brand is bound to be progressively phased out.) The official announcement is expected tomorrow or on Monday and the deal will have to get the agreement of the Greek Competition Commission and the European Commission, which will most probably approve the merger. (Huh? How can they be so sure? The new airline will control 95% of the Greek domestic market...)

[Edited 2010-02-18 09:39:10]

User currently offlineju068 From Vanuatu, joined Aug 2009, 2646 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8401 times:
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That is true, becoming a Star member would make sense, but what I am trying to say that maybe SkyTeam will try to make an offer as well, and try to steal them from Star...
What kind of effect would it have on TK if they became Star?


User currently offlineOlympicATH From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2001, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8393 times:

Well, I suppose that being close to IST and CAI wouldn't make it easy for ATH to become a big Star hub. However, I think it's in their interest to join Star. All long-haul carriers that currently fly to ATH (CO, US, TG, SQ) or are planning to (AC) are Star members (except DL). Furthermore, YYZ, YUL and JNB (traditional OA long-haul markets) are Star hubs. I could add NYC but OA flew to JFK (I suppose they could switch to EWR if they ever resumed their long-haul operations, or just stay at JFK anyway).

User currently offlineVinnieWinnie From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 792 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8371 times:

Quoting OlympicATH (Reply 7):
How convenient when you're German. Yes, Greece is a small market. However, many smaller countries than Greece have successful long-haul carriers: Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Norway, Portugal, Sweden, Switzerland. The new OA will carry circa 11-12 million pax per year. It would be in the same size range as LX (14 million), Aeroflot (11 million) or OS (10 million). And, what a coincidence, LX and OS have successful long-haul operations and are both Star members and LH-owned.

Heu allow me to disagree:

OS: Pretty much bankrupt
SN: Succesful long haul operations to Africa only because of niche player/experience in this continent
SAS: Bleeding money
TAP: Bleeding money
LX: Doing quite well thanks to a wealthy home market/a lot of business pax.


OA never did well and always suffered from low yields. Without trying to be too nasty here, OA's weakness today and in the past exactly reflects the problems Greece always has had.

Quoting panais (Thread starter):
1. Olympic Air and Aegean will merge to create an airline that can be dominant in the home market and a very serious player in the European market.

Heu Greece's location + Economic problems are not exactly going to make that happen

Quoting panais (Thread starter):
2. Because of the financial crisis many tourists will think that Greece is cheap right now and they will want to travel to take advantage of the lower prices. Hahaha.

Haha! Given how expensive Greece as a holiday destinations I doubt it. Prices being too expensive probably drove a lot of people away which in turn didn't help the economy.

Quoting panais (Thread starter):
3. The government wants to invest in the new company and may use the 4 A340-300 that are currently parked as startup capital and to give long haul capabilities to the new company from day 1.

Shoudln't they sell them to make a bit of money? Don't think the government is in any position to make bets at the moment...


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27033 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8362 times:

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 1):
Government controlled airlines have fared SO WELL in Greek aviation lately.

The govenment should be sorting out the mess that ND got the nation in and leave aviation to someone that knows . MIG seem to know how to run an airline so far.

Quoting panais (Reply 3):
But anyway, people will come and see how it looks like to live in a bankrupt country.

Nothing will change. Were you ever in Greece in the 80's when the place had next to no infrastucture and was poor? I can tell you even with the crisis its still alot better now !!

Quoting VinnieWinnie (Reply 16):
OA never did well and always suffered from low yields.

Wrong it was not always the case .

Quoting VinnieWinnie (Reply 16):
OA's weakness today and in the past exactly reflects the problems Greece always has had.

OA is not weak at the moment. Can you post your source for current yields and figures?


User currently offlineVinnieWinnie From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 792 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8347 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 17):
Wrong it was not always the case .

never heard that OA was profitable. Coming from a small country (Belgium) I can assure you that Sabena's ills were not entirely due to management only, no matter how badly run Sabena once was.

Fair enough I'm over-generalizing. As for every airline OA has had some good years, has/had some routes that are performing very well.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 17):

OA is not weak at the moment. Can you post your source for current yields and figures?

How do you analyze an Aegann merger? Wish to control the market. If a company is strong then it expands on its own. The fact that merger talks happen only a few months after the new OA was established comforts me in my thinking.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27033 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8316 times:

Quoting VinnieWinnie (Reply 18):
As for every airline OA has had some good years, has/had some routes that are performing very well.

Before the Greek government got their hands on it OA was a world class airline. All the way back to the Comet days. Its come full circle now and OA offer a very good and competitive product. Having flown it myself 4 times since December.

Reports on old OA ::

OA260-LHR-ATH/Boeing 737-400 Photos + Videos (by OA260 Feb 14 2009 in Trip Reports)

Olympic Airlines A340 Business Class Pics+Videos (by OA260 Dec 18 2008 in Trip Reports)

New Olympic Air :

Olympic Air Η Ελλάδα ψηλά - Greece Flying High (by OA260 Nov 7 2009 in Trip Reports)

Olympic Air ATH-LHR A320-Lounge Lots Pics And Vids (by OA260 Nov 14 2009 in Trip Reports)

OP 315/320 Operated By Olympic Air ATH-IST- W/PICS (by OA260 Dec 3 2009 in Trip Reports)

Quoting VinnieWinnie (Reply 18):
How do you analyze an Aegann merger?

I support it as long as the Olympic brand is kept. There are alot of news stories going aroundf and debates on TV , we will have to wait and see the truth.


User currently offlineVinnieWinnie From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 792 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8263 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 19):
Before the Greek government got their hands on it OA was a world class airline. All the way back to the Comet days. Its come full circle now and OA offer a very good and competitive product. Having flown it myself 4 times since December.

When did that happen?

Doesn't stop me thinking that small carriers with a small population base are not meant to be big intercontinental airlines! Especially in Europe!

What I meant by how do you analyze the OA Aegann merger is why in your opinion are they merging if they are independently succesful? U'd guess that they would be the biggest ennemies with Aegann from what I hear doing quite zell in the past few years?


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27033 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8200 times:

The Greek government took it off Onassis's hands which was in the 70's , it basically after then became a social welfare system and was abused. It took 15 years to really run it down though as in the 80's depsite debts it still was a decent airline.

A3 until recently never competed on OA routes bar maybe a minor odd one. A3 are basically a feeder for LH and their numerous German codeshares reflect this. Only recently have A3 decided to try other markets served by OA. They probably realise they can work better as one than try to out do eachother and both loose out. It certainly will be interesting
to see the final outcome.

If you ever wondered what happened to one of the old OA B727's ::

Interesting use :

http://news.cnet.com/2300-13838_3-6225612-14.html


User currently offlinepanais From Cyprus, joined May 2008, 463 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 8075 times:

Quoting OlympicATH (Reply 13):
but I thought I had to say that this does not mean the Olympic brand will disappear. According to the Greek press it is the opposite, the Aegean brand is bound to be progressively phased out.)

By the way, the Olympic brand does not belong to MIG but to the Greek State.

Any attempt to phase that out, will mean that nothing stops the government to sell the rights to use it to another party.


User currently offlineFatmirJusufi From Albania, joined Jan 2009, 2441 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 8021 times:

First off, I congratulate about your initiative but since there is a Balkan Thread (obviously Greece is part of Balkan) we would not like your aviation information to be spread into another threads.  Balkan Aviation #5 (by FatmirJusufi Jan 21 2010 in Civil Aviation)

I respect your decision.  

Kind regards,



DO FLIGHTS. NOT FIGHTS.
User currently offlineCYatUK From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 810 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 7964 times:

Quoting FatmirJusufi (Reply 23):
First off, I congratulate about your initiative but since there is a Balkan Thread (obviously Greece is part of Balkan) we would not like your aviation information to be spread into another threads

Unless, someone starts discussing points 4&5 of the first post which are related to Cyprus which is not part of the Balkans 

The Cypriot Parliament have yesterday approved the injection of €35m into Eurocypria in an attempt to save the airline from collapsing. The result of the vote was very much influenced by the recent deal of ECA with a UK tour operator for routes to Cyprus and Greece but also from the fact that ECA is thought to trasfer around 300000 tourists to Cyprus every year hence a collapse would be a huge problem for the already problematic tourism industry.

Cyprus Airways unions have demonstrated against the decision and pressed the MPs to consider merging of ECA with CY in an effort to boost the chances of survival of a large Cypriot airline.

Following the result, it has been confirmed that CY unions have filed an objection with the EU claiming that this aid is illegal and should not be allowed.



CY@Uk
25 ju068 : But what would CY do with the 738's?
26 Post contains images FatmirJusufi : Regarding Cyprus you are right.
27 BmiBaby737 : Has Olympic Air dropped it's LGW route this summer? News to me that Eurocypria was in a sorry state, how much money are they loosing right now?
28 ju068 : Wasn't OA warned by the LGW authority for being too late or something? Or was it only during the old Olympic?
29 CYatUK : Based on what newspapers report, ECA came close to collapse due to a series of bad (others say "stupid") decisions made by the previous Management Te
30 ju068 : During the winter season can't Eurocypria fly some routes for Cyprus Airways? It would make more sense then to make them sit on the ground or to lease
31 OA260 : Yes Olympic Airlines were warned on numerous times about too many cancellations but this does not apply to the new company.
32 CYatUK : Yes, but don't forget that winter is also low season for CY as well with the exception of the Christmast period when there is high demand for destina
33 ju068 : That is true, but can't they open some new routes? Mmm...There are about 2 000 Iranians living in Cyprus, I am sure that they could fly to THR a few t
34 AC888YOW : What's the status on A3 joining Star Alliance? Is it still happening? The news was announced last May but they're still not integrated on the Star All
35 Post contains links JU068 : http://www.atwonline.com/news/other.html?issueDate=3%2F1%2F2010 Not a good year for Cyprus Airways (but then again who had it), reporting a loss of 3,
36 CYatUK : Indeed, however as the CY CEO mentioned in the press conference, with the huge reduction of income that CY sufferred due to the economic crisis, a lo
37 JU068 : But I think the taxes are crazy between the two, total comes out to be 250 euros! So maybe now we will see CY's 330 more often in Athens! I hope so, I
38 Post contains links Giancavia : Viking Hellas 2 A320's are about ready for delivery. SX-SMT and SX-SMU. http://www.skyliner-aviation.de/photos/SXSMT.jpg
39 Post contains images SergioAEE : Ever since Olympic Air opened in October, their load factor performance has been tragic unfortunately. If you look at quarter statistics on the Athens
40 Post contains links and images OA260 : Can you provide a link? The rest of your piece is interesting even if it is personal opinion. With regards job losses it happens all over the industr
41 Post contains images SergioAEE : OA260 something doesn't add up for sure!! One thing is for sure, Greece can not sustain two full service carriers no matter what. Also looking at the
42 ju068 : I think it would make more sense to make Cyprus Airways a partner rather than to open a hub in Larnaca, especially with the newly announced routes tha
43 Post contains links OlympicATH : Hey Ottawa, A3 is joining Star in June 2010 according to plan. Since A3 and OA are planning to merge in the fall, the new airline (which is keeping t
44 CYatUK : Never understood where this rumour came from but my own opinion is that this may well happen...when hell freezes!!! Unless the politics changed, CY i
45 OlympicATH : Just noticed what you wrote here. OA has 3 daily flights to London (and always has) and A3 2 (they did have 3 daily flights to STN at some point), so
46 Post contains links oa260 : Article on the FR routes here also info on the other routes by other airlines. http://www.enet.gr/?i=news.el.article&id=138832 AB to DUS and Monar
47 SergioAEE : FR and U2 could really make good use of the Greek islands, and the Greek market in general. Greece is about the only country in the EU that does not h
48 CYatUK : Though not directly linked to Greek Aviation but it may well affect the decision of a number of Greeks flying to the USA: A few hours ago and after a
49 oa260 : I would say it is and it will certainly have an impact on future travel plans of the Greeks who can still afford such trips. The cost of visas and in
50 Post contains links ju068 : Larnaca Airport has a new website... http://www.larnaca-airport.info/index.php
51 Post contains links CYatUK : Sorry but that's not the official website. If you click on the About Us button on this website you will find out that it does not belong to Hermes ai
52 oa260 : Quite misleading and I have been caught out with that once , it looks official but its not.
53 Post contains images ju068 : Oh...well I am a natural blonde so I am allowed to have these blonde moments from time to time , sorry for that then! I am quite happy that this is no
54 Post contains images CYatUK : Just to add on my previous post, the official announcement mentions that the effective date will be in a month's time i.e. within April. Don't worry,
55 Post contains images ju068 : Today when I was at the Larnaca airport taking some relatives and staying there for 6 hours (JU's plane was stuck in a sand storm in DXB), I think I s
56 CYatUK : Yeap, that's correct. The two new A320s display the website at the sides towards the back of the fuselage.
57 ju068 : Belgrade airport has OA's two daily flights from Belgrade listed on their summer schedule. Does it mean they have applied for Belgrade again or... I s
58 Bennett123 : I expect that I will get flamed for this, but here goes. IIRC Greece is on it's (third?) national strike in how many weeks. If I had been planning a v
59 iakobos : Well, when all uncertainty has been removed there is no risk left, it becomes a fact. What happened to the 700 or so pilots (State employees) from de
60 Post contains images panais : There you go, you are flamed. At least they are not going to strike on Easter as the BA crews after they tried to strike during Christmas.
61 Bennett123 : That is true. However the unrest in Greece seems to go beyond Olympic. That said, the number of possible takers for the OA A340-300's seem somewhat li
62 OlympicATH : Hi ju068. We've already talked about this in your BEG thread a few days ago. OA did not just drop BEG, so it's not a matter of applying to resume fli
63 Pe@rson : Might already be known, but EK will use the 345 on its daily EK105/106 DXB-ATH-DXB from 2nd Aug to 30th Oct.
64 oa260 : Strikes all over Europe , France , Spain,Portugal, Italy ,UK etc.etc... old news its life . BA will indeed be an interesting one and might be the mos
65 ju068 : that is the reason why I asked if something had changed, as I know they are not allowed to fly to Belgrade, at least under these conditions..
66 Post contains links oa260 : Olympic Air's new dedicated Business Class 2-2 seats on new A/C SX-OAT. http://www.airliners.gr/community/ga...lery/image_page.php?image_id=19062
67 OA412 : Looks nice. Hopefully they'll keep this post merger. I think it will give OA a nice competitive advantage over other European carriers which still ha
68 CYatUK : CY have confirmed that their increased frequencies to BRU will be commencing in November in order to facilitate the trasport of EU and Cypriot Governm
69 Post contains links and images oa260 : New launch of Business Class announced They are certainly upping the game on EU Business Class and sure does beat middle seat block config. This is b
70 CYatUK : Interesting that CY are also offering a 2-2 business class on their newest A320.
71 oa260 : Any pics? As pointed out on the other thread 3.5-4.5 hours do warrant more space. OA fares for J are from only £472 incl taxes which is very good va
72 ju068 : A friend of mine flew from Larnaca to London on the brand new 320 and he was more than impressed!! He loved the leather seats! The new OA's business C
73 Post contains links and images oa260 : Yes I agree Nice article here from AIA website and Airliner World http://www.aia.gr/UserFiles/File/Pre...sEn/2010/145453_ATHENS_AWFeb10.pdf
74 Post contains images ju068 : Ah I actualy have this one! Nice to see CY in their old livery and the 717! What a great airplane!!! By the way, does OA have a business class on any
75 oa260 : No its single class. Funny talking about OA props there was a video on youtube showing inside the cabin of the Dash and take off but its dissapeared
76 CYatUK : That's the problem with CY, not a lot of investment in marketing. The fact that the new A320 has 2-2 Business Configuration was only announced in the
77 OlympicATH : Off topic but it's actually "Εν Πτήσει" (dative case).
78 Post contains images CYatUK : I stand corrected
79 bravogolf : General question to anyone What is the status of Hellas Jet? Two 320s in Hellas Jet livery have recently arrived at GYY and are sitting on the ramp.
80 oa260 : Dont worry my grammer and spelling in Greek is terrible so I dont bother much lol...
81 Post contains links oa260 : 26th March the last A3 flight from Thessaloniki to Milan will operate. A3 is also reducing some frequencies of its Domestic routes. OA stops ATH-BEY 2
82 SergioAEE : From the looks of it Aegean is cutting down frequencies on the domestic routes as stated above. How many aircraft do you recon they will let go of in
83 CYatUK : WIth regard to A3 entry into Star Alliance, given that it is only 2 months away, shouldn't an exact joining date be announced by now?
84 oa260 : Havnt heard exact date yet just June. Im sure we will hear any day now.
85 ac888yow : Thanks for the info.
86 kiwiandrew : Last I heard joining was expected to be sometime in June , we are still in March at the moment so joining could be up to 3 months away . A definite d
87 Post contains images CYatUK : Ok, I was thinking that they must have a schedule for entry prepared by now. Lets see what happens over the next few weeks. Technically yes, practica
88 oa260 : Regarding the merger into Olympic head of Aegean yesterday said he expects a fleet of 55-64 aircraft made up on only two types Airbus and Bombardier s
89 ju068 : Does that mean that by winter we could see the Avros gone, or...?
90 Post contains images CYatUK : I was hoping to hear "three types of Airbus", the third being either A330 or A350 or (even better) a few A330 for short-medium term use to be replace
91 Post contains links and images oa260 : http://www.marfininvestmentgroup.com...Investor_Release_FY_2009_XPvDI.pdf
92 LIPZ : OA will be reducing frequencies to FCO and MXP (from 2 to 1 per day fllight) eff from May.
93 oa260 : There will be many more changes over the next 9 months as OA/A3 harmonise their network into one carrier.
94 kiwiandrew : Are they allowed to start working on harmonising their schedules when the merger hasn't yet been approved ?
95 oa260 : Well they cant stop any airline from cutting routes or reducing frequencies.
96 kiwiandrew : Good point , but the use of the word 'harmonise' made it sound like they were working together , and I would have thought that they could not openly
97 oa260 : They have used that word so they must be confident enough that they can use it. MIG being the giant they are have their own legal team so Im sure the
98 ju068 : What is happening on the North America>Greece market this summer?
99 OA412 : The following flights are all scheduled to operate on a daily basis between the US and Greece. DL JFK-ATH 333 ATL-ATH 763 CO EWR-ATH 764 US PHL-ATH 7
100 OlympicATH : Actually this summer Air Transat will have 2 weekly non-stop flights to ATH from both YYZ and YUL and is also adding a weekly flight from YVR to ATH
101 ju068 : WoW it's going to be a buy schedule to Canada this summer!!! Great! By the way does anyone know what is happening with Blue Air? Are they creating som
102 Post contains links and images oa260 : Seat sale now on :: http://www.olympicair.com/Default.aspx?a_id=1166
103 CYatUK : They will have one B738 based at LCA flying to VIE, WAW and MXP. The other flights to BBU will be operated by BBU based aircraft. This also applies t
104 ju068 : Wow thanks!!! When did this happen?! I don't think that OS has taken them seriously, as their price to Vienna remains unchanged... Did CY react in an
105 CYatUK : It was announced a couple of months ago. In my opinion OS will not be affected a lot as the majority of their traffic to VIE is connecting to other f
106 ju068 : Cool...thanks. didn't CY fly at one point a few years ago to OTP? And if they did how come they didn't manage to make it work? I mean today we have 0B
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