CaliAtenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1130 posts, RR: 0 Posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10979 times:
I know Emirates SkyCargo has a few 747F's...but why didnt the mainline EK order any?? ive always been curious about this..were they one of the only majors that never did??
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22025 posts, RR: 51 Reply 1, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10996 times:
CaliAtenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1130 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10920 times:
ramzi From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 535 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10912 times:
The reason they never operated the earlier 747s is because by the time they were in the market for a massive fleet of wide-bodies with the support of their government there had become many new options available. They are a massive operator of the 777 and have 29 A330s and 18 A340s. The 777 must have better suited their needs, probably due to its efficiency.
For SkyCargo, when they acquired their 74Fs the 777F and A330F were not available yet.
The orders for the 748 are all freighters, those would take up the role of the A380F that they will not receive because the program has been dropped.
An added point here could be the equating game EK plays in having a reasonable Airbus vs. Boeing ratio in its fleet (politics!). I'm sure EK wouldn't be where it is today without the 777, so I suppose instead of ordering 744s they went with the A345s to maintain this equality.
There will come a time when you believe everything is finished - that will be the beginning.
N328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6222 posts, RR: 3 Reply 5, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10860 times:
Quoting ramzi (Reply 3): The orders for the 748 are all freighters, those would take up the role of the A380F that they will not receive because the program has been dropped.
This could be a chicken-and-egg question. Did EK drop the A380F order due to program deferment, or did EK drop the order, thus contributing to the deferment? Obviously, the FX and 5X orders played a much bigger role in the status of that program, though.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
simairlinenet From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 813 posts, RR: 2 Reply 6, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10846 times:
These are also freighters, which doesn't help the original poster.
The reasons for not ordering the 747-8 Intercontinental are well-documented, so I am going to focus on the -400. I am also interested in reasons why, but I am going to venture some suppositions:
-I figure an order, had it been placed, would have been about 10 years ago while the 747-400 line was not drying up.
-Emirates knew the A380 was likely just a few (expected) years away, so they were willing to wait.
-Where would a 747 have been used? Likely longhaul routes like those that the A340-500s and 777-200LR/300ERs took, not the regional, European, and Indian services that the 777 and A330 fly (on which Emirates is now either upgauging in restricted bilaterals, or increasing frequency).
-Therefore, I suspect that Emirates was given a good deal on the A340-500. Years later, the 777 was showing long-range potential equivalent to 747-400s with better operating economics and the 747-400 line was winding down.
airbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 6869 posts, RR: 7 Reply 7, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10797 times:
For a couple of reasons, and this is my opinion only: One, when EK became the airline that we know today, somewhere in the early 90's, the 773ER accomplished everything the 774 did and in some cases better. It's no coincidence that a lot of airlines have replaced and continue to replace their fleet of 747's with 773's. Secondly, when EK decided that they needed a large capacity aircraft, they obviously thought that the A380 would be a better option for them than any 747, hence an order for 58 A380's.
ramzi From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 535 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10789 times:
Quoting N328KF (Reply 5): This could be a chicken-and-egg question. Did EK drop the A380F order due to program deferment, or did EK drop the order, thus contributing to the deferment? Obviously, the FX and 5X orders played a much bigger role in the status of that program, though.
Correct me if my memory doesn't serve right over here... The 5X cancellation lead to a significant delay in the A380F program, subsequently leading FX to cancel their orders and go for the 777F which promised a much closer delivery date. EK only had 5 A380Fs on order, making them a miniature player. Once both 5X and FX had canceled, Airbus could not continue with the program, thus forcing EK to drop their 5 orders. Of course EK is the very core of the A380 pax program, I'm sure they and A always settled matters peacefully.
Quoting simairlinenet (Reply 6): I suspect that Emirates was given a good deal on the A340-500. Years later, the 777 was showing long-range potential equivalent to 747-400s with better operating economics and the 747-400 line was winding down.
There will come a time when you believe everything is finished - that will be the beginning.
UAEflyer From United Arab Emirates, joined Nov 2006, 903 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10740 times:
As far as i know from a close friend of mine who used to work with Emirates and was involved in aircraft selection. He told me that buying 4 engines aircraft was not an option EK want to discuss or take, at that time the B777 & A330 came out and full-filled their plans, with two engined aircraft.
Furthermore, EK was not ready to spend more on maintenance by adding 747 to their fleet which will mean more engineers for the maintenance division of EK. That was before 2000, now things changed and every while Emirates Group change their strategy to meet the latest inventions in the aviation industry.
Not to forget that EK is the leader in the Middle East region, as it is know that QR are the main follower by using same philosophy and business model.
AirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 1906 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10741 times:
At the time EK ordered their 777s and A380s, the passenger 744 was an old technology aircraft, and only really ordered by existing operators topping up their fleets- most major 744 orders were in the late 80s/early 90s, at a time when EK only had a couple of A310s!
it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10658 posts, RR: 100 Reply 11, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10675 times:
Ummm... No. Not if you include 9W and quite a few others.
EK was not large enough to order the 744 when it was the long range CASM champ. By the time EK was ready to buy long range the ordered the A346 for what was supposed to be much lower CASM. (Then they switched to the 77W, having only accepted A345's.)
Only if the 748I beats range promise does it have a chance of entering EK's fleet. Even then, in this economic downturn it is going to be tough for EK to finance 748I's.
ramzi From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 535 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10621 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 11): Only if the 748I beats range promise does it have a chance of entering EK's fleet. Even then, in this economic downturn it is going to be tough for EK to finance 748I's.
Doubtful. They're going to have what 100 777s and 58 A380s? If they were to replace the old 777s and the A330/A340 family it would be with 787s and/or A350s. The 748 doesn't fit anywhere in their scheme, and they seem to be oriented towards operating two types: the 777 and the A380. Eventually, in my opinion, they will drop the A330s and A340s all together focusing their maintenance on the 777 with its various sub-types and the A380 that will take care of the dense routes.
There will come a time when you believe everything is finished - that will be the beginning.
CaliAtenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1130 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10610 times:
Quoting ramzi (Reply 3): The reason they never operated the earlier 747s is because by the time they were in the market for a massive fleet of wide-bodies with the support of their government there had become many new options available. They are a massive operator of the 777 and have 29 A330s and 18 A340s. The 777 must have better suited their needs, probably due to its efficiency.
Ah i see..no yeah it would have been nice to see some passenger EK 747s...
Quoting UAEflyer (Reply 9): As far as i know from a close friend of mine who used to work with Emirates and was involved in aircraft selection. He told me that buying 4 engines aircraft was not an option EK want to discuss or take, at that time the B777 & A330 came out and full-filled their plans, with two engined aircraft.
Then why did EK go in for the A340s? Was that only for the range considerations? BTW, the Y class on the 330's is not impressive at all and is cramped ...i felt much better on MH's 330s
SEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6256 posts, RR: 39 Reply 14, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10521 times:
I believe the A340 orders were fairly early ones, and came before the 77L/77W were flying, and certainly before they had proved to be as good as they turned out to be.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
ramzi From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 535 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10478 times:
Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 13): Then why did EK go in for the A340s? Was that only for the range considerations? BTW, the Y class on the 330's is not impressive at all and is cramped ...i felt much better on MH's 330s
A couple of years ago I flew MH BEY-DXB. The ticket cost half that on EK and it was a much better Y product. Don't know about the 777s or A340s however.
There will come a time when you believe everything is finished - that will be the beginning.
CaliAtenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1130 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10343 times:
Quoting LondonCity (Reply 16):
But not as cramped as the 10-across Y class layout found on EK's B777s.
Its interesting you brought that up..it was fine for me . Best Y seats ever . I felt the A330 as being way more claustrophobic .
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26688 posts, RR: 83 Reply 20, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10003 times:
While the 777-300ER's performance suffers from the high ambient temperatures of DXB, the plane appears to have the legs to handle most of the missions EK wanted and the 777-200LR filled in the gaps.
Also remember that they were an early A380-800 customer and they had an order for 20 A340-600Es which they subsequently canceled. So they had an option to the 777-300ER that was not affected by ambient conditions at DXB that was more efficient than the 747-400.
So the 747 has never really fit in EK's 21st century fleet planes. And this includes the 747-8. Even if Boeing somehow gets that extra 300nm out of the model, I am convinced EK will not buy it unless their traffic collapses to the point they cannot fill their planned A380-800 order. And if it collapses that bad, to be honest I don't think the 747-8 will be the answer, but instead they will stay with the 777-300ER and A350XWB-1000.
airbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 6869 posts, RR: 7 Reply 22, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9973 times:
Quoting simairlinenet (Reply 6): Therefore, I suspect that Emirates was given a good deal on the A340-500. Years later, the 777 was showing long-range potential equivalent to 747-400s with better operating economics and the 747-400 line was winding down.
EK needed a ULH aircraft (for JFK, SYD, etc), and the A340-500 was the only one available and capable. It's that simple. Same reason SQ has them. Did they get a good deal on them? Probably, we'll never know, but that's certainly not the reason they bought them.
BNAFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9637 times:
Didn't EK request a 747-8i variation from Boeing, with longer legs and additional capacity? Seems like I recall them looking at the 747 update, but B wasn't willing/able to make the mods that EK wanted.
25 ramzi: IIRC just 2 were leased from Atlas. EK owned a few.
26 Stitch: The original 747-8 would have had a forward of the wing fuselage plug 2.1 meters shorter than the 747-8F. Boeing believed this lighter structure was
27 jfk777: At the time the 744 was the plane to buy, 20 years ago, Emirates didn't exist. Gulf Air was the Persian Gulf's main airline. The time frame when Emira
28 Viscount724: They're not quite that young. EK began operations in 1985, but by 1990 they were still a small carrier.
29 lightsaber: They asked for 8,500nm Seriously, I doubt EK will order pax 748I's due to their current order book and the credit climate. Lightsaber
30 XT6Wagon: Nope 5X cancled when they found out in the... MEDIA that Aribus removed all the resources from the A380F program. Airbus then used that "excuse" of t
31 Gemuser: Talk about subjective judgments!!! In Oct I got on an EK A332, a bit less than 3 hours after getting off an EK 10 Abreast B77W on which I had spent 1
32 SSTsomeday: I don't think that is a strong consideration for them, beyond making sure that they continue to court both manufacturers to get goods deals. It seems
33 CaliAtenza: I heard that originally the 340's were supposed to be used for the ULH flights to the US...were these every put on the DXB-JFK route?? I guess by the
34 CaliAtenza: Im a tall guy (6ft) and the seats on the 330s in Y are wedged in like sardines...i did not feel comfortable at all, even for the short hop between BL
35 CaliAtenza: Is that the reason why the ER can make it to SFO but not to LAX? ive been on a puddle jumper before, but i was a kid then...ive been on the Northwest
36 Gemuser: Again, subjective judgments. You are only 50 mm taller than I am and I found the B77Ws very cramped, both in the seat and the cabin. I found the A332
37 AirNZ: I find it interesting that in your post you claim that the 777 probably suited their needs better than the 747, and hence why such was ordered......t
38 tom355uk: There seems to be a strange fascination with the 747 on this forum? Clearly, and all the figures support this, the A340-5/600 is a superior aircraft t
39 Stitch: If EK was willing to order a score, I expect Boeing would have been ready and willing to do it. I'll agree with you one the A340-600, but I'd be very
40 sandyb123: The seats on the EK 333 are 32 inches and the 777LR is an extra inch so you do actually have a little more room. IIRC the central bins retract into t
41 ramzi: What I meant is that the 777 was favored over the 747 for a Boeing order. If my theory about equalizing between A and B is correct (and many think it
42 RJ111: The 77W and even the A346 absolutely trounce the 744 economically. So it made little sense for them to order it. That is all that needs to be said.
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From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1130 posts, 
. hehe sorry if i wasnt clear at the start 
From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 535 posts, 
From Pakistan, joined Feb 2010, 30 posts, 
From United Arab Emirates, joined Nov 2006, 903 posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 1906 posts, 
...i felt much better on MH's 330s 
. I felt the A330 as being way more claustrophobic 
From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2425 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
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