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787 Flight Test Tracking Thread - Part 2  
User currently offlinemoderators From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 513 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 67375 times:
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Continuation of Part 1 which can be read here:

787 Flight Test Tracking Thread (by Moderators Jan 3 2010 in Civil Aviation)


Please use moderators@airliners.net to contact us.
284 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineflyboy2001 From Canada, joined May 2005, 186 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 67360 times:

Flightblogger reports that ZA001 diverted to Moses Lake today, after just more than an hour in the air and he's curious to know why - so am I. Should have been an 8 hour flight... Anyone know the answer?

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE1



And you... Revolution, or just resistance?
User currently offlinewarpspeed From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 594 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 66929 times:

In addition, I'm also curious whether ZA001 shacked up at Moses Lake and is still there. I see no departure for the plane yesterday and there are several smaller planes that departed for Boeing Field later in the afternoon. A ferry run for the pilots and test crew? Leaving ZA001 behind would seem to indicate the diversion was not one taken out of precaution for a minor squawk. Would Moses Lake have the facilities to do a major repair in short order? Of course, this is all predicated on the accuracy of Flightaware. We'll have confirmation of an overnighter when we see the next departure location.


DaHjaj jaj QaQ Daghajjaj !!!!
User currently offlinepnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2248 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 66692 times:

According to the latest Twitter it was a Flightaware squawk.

http://twitter.com/flightblogger/statuses/9393153490


User currently offlineflyboy2001 From Canada, joined May 2005, 186 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 66467 times:

Well, that takes care of it... On with the testing!


And you... Revolution, or just resistance?
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9644 posts, RR: 68
Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 65892 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Looks like the bloggers were wrong again  

Origin Grant Co Intl (KMWH - track or info)
Destination Boeing Field Intl (KBFI - track or info)
Date Sunday, Feb 21, 2010
Duration 0 hours 35 minutes

Amazing how much inaccurate information gets spewed about and then taken as gospel.


User currently offlineskyhawk62507 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 176 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 65663 times:

While I'm a big fan of his work, I'm curious how flightblogger determined it was "just a FlightAware squawk." (If there's anything the past two years have taught us in regards to the 787 program, it should be "take anything Boeing tells you with a healthy dose of skepticism.")

That said, good to see whatever caused the apparent, sudden diversion to Moses Lake wasn't serious enough to keep the bird out of the air for long; of course, the real test will be how long ZA001 stays on the ground once she gets back to BFI

[Edited 2010-02-21 09:51:48]

User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9644 posts, RR: 68
Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 65589 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Both frames were scheduled to fly this weekend.

I am writing this at BFI, the second 787 is nowhere to be seen, my guess would be that it is in the hanger, but like I said, it's just a guess  


User currently offlineskyhawk62507 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 176 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 65483 times:

LOL... love the "who said that? Did I say that?" tone to his latest post:

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fl...here-did-za001-spend-the-week.html

In related news, ZA001 is in the air and bookin' back to BFI.


User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9644 posts, RR: 68
Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 65355 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
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I imagine it would be tough to be an accurate source when you are 3,000 miles away.

It is a shame when "journalism" has become a guessing game. When you are making an assumption you should tell people that is what it is.

If you are using Boeing PR people as your source you are going to get the positives, but not the "less than positives."

It will be interesting to see what happens in the next few days with N787BA and N787EX. Both are both currently scheduled to fly tomorrow, with T33 and T38 support, so if they don't we can assume something is up


User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5790 posts, RR: 47
Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 65269 times:

I believe ZA002 and ZA004 are going to fly tomorrow (as will RC501 - 747-8F). I'm not sure about ZA001 though.


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineskyhawk62507 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 176 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 65189 times:

It bears repeating this is what flight test programs are for, to identify problems... and even if ZA001 did divert to Moses Lake due to an immediate concern -- as appears likely -- and needs to spend some time at BFI to get it sorted out, it's certainly not an unusual event per se.

(Which is why it serves Boeing better to be upfront about it, if that is indeed the case.)

Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing ZA004 in the air, and hopefully ZA001 will be joining her soon!

[Edited 2010-02-21 11:52:02]

User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5790 posts, RR: 47
Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 65152 times:

I'm hearing that after ZA004 takes off tomorrow, it'll be followed by RC501 (747-8F) and together the two will have an inflight photoshoot. Rumor right now but sounds legit.


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlinewarpspeed From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 594 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 64910 times:

Quoting skyhawk62507 (Reply 11):
It bears repeating this is what flight test programs are for, to identify problems... and even if ZA001 did divert to Moses Lake due to an immediate concern -- as appears likely -- and needs to spend some time at BFI to get it sorted out, it's certainly not an unusual event per se.

Agreed and with all the information freely available linked with the ability for us to commentate/speculate, this may be one of the most scrutinized flight test programs in aviation history. While ZA001's diversion and time spent at Moses Lake raises eyebrows, I would suspect Boeing is being very cautious until it has a very deep understanding of the planes. Even if ZA001 had to glide into Moses Lake, the fact that it was able to fly back to Boeing Field today means Boeing got her flight ready and, hopefully, learned something valuable that will benefit the rest of the program.

[Edited 2010-02-21 13:55:26]


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User currently offlinegregarious119 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 534 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 64431 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 12):

Not that it means all that much, but ZA004 and RC501 are both wearing the Boeing "lite" color scheme, right?

It'll be really nice to see these two new birds in the sky together wearing similar colors. Can't wait!


User currently offline787seattle From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 641 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 64111 times:

Randy Tinseth has a few words to say on his blog about the MWH diversion:

http://boeingblogs.com/randy/archives/2010/02/za001_status.html

Quote:
Our flight test pilots had touched down at the Grant County International Airport after they experienced an uncommanded loss of thrust in one of the engines.



Student - KELN
User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21544 posts, RR: 59
Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 64000 times:

Quoting 787seattle (Reply 15):
Our flight test pilots had touched down at the Grant County International Airport after they experienced an uncommanded loss of thrust in one of the engines.

That was my hunch, as to why it diverted, why they flew back and forth and how long it was on the ground. Engine failure, requiring a replacement.

This happens often in a flight test program, and sometimes far from how (so the manufacturers base engine spares at strategic locations around the world for protection).

Too bad we don't have "groundtracker" to be able to track the flatbed truck used to transport the new engine to Moses Lake and bring the old engine back to Paine.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineFrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1639 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 63901 times:

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 16):
Too bad we don't have "groundtracker" to be able to track the flatbed truck used to transport the new engine to Moses Lake and bring the old engine back to Paine.

It doesn't seem that a complete engine change was necessary, just replacement of some parts. According to randy's blog, it had te do with a pressure-sensing component.

It would have been quite an achievement to transport and install a new engine in just 2 days, so early in the test program...



146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
User currently offline747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 2179 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 63868 times:

Is this engine failure (uncommanded thrust loss is normally a reason to divert) effecting the ETOPS certification of the 787/ Trent 1000 combination?
We have now out of 49 flights, one engine related issue.



Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
User currently offlineskyhawk62507 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 176 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 63524 times:

Quoting 787seattle (Reply 15):
Randy Tinseth has a few words to say on his blog about the MWH diversion:

http://boeingblogs.com/randy/archives/2010/02/za001_status.html

Quote:
Our flight test pilots had touched down at the Grant County International Airport after they experienced an uncommanded loss of thrust in one of the engines.

Thanks for finding this... and good on Boeing for being forthright about the nature of the problem.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31119 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 63462 times:
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Quoting 747classic (Reply 18):
Is this engine failure (uncommanded thrust loss is normally a reason to divert) effecting the ETOPS certification of the 787/ Trent 1000 combination?

Well ETOPS is based on a specific shut-down rate per hours of operation, so as long as the 787 and the Trent 1000 can rack up the required number of hours without exceeding the maximum number of IFS', it should not affect it.


User currently offlinewarpspeed From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 594 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 63206 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 20):
Well ETOPS is based on a specific shut-down rate per hours of operation, so as long as the 787 and the Trent 1000 can rack up the required number of hours without exceeding the maximum number of IFS', it should not affect it.


Do you know if the entirety of the Flight Test Program is utilized for ETOPS certification or is there a subset time period of the program that is defined for ETOPS testing in which IFS' are measured against? The latter has been my assumption as the Boeing Flight Test profile lists planes ZA003-006 specifically for ETOPS testing. As such, could the in-flight shut-down on ZA001 the other day be considered an event outside of ETOPS certification? Overall, ZA001 and ZA002 seem to be playing the role of older siblings - breaking-in the new parents (Boeing and RR) and paving the way for the younger sibs to have all the fun....



DaHjaj jaj QaQ Daghajjaj !!!!
User currently offlineSilentJC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 32 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 63163 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 20):
Thanks for finding this... and good on Boeing for being forthright about the nature of the problem.

I think in the face of the speculative reporting that went on it was almost imperative for someone at Boeing to come out with an official quote. I mean, I'm sure similar issues happened during previous programs. They just didn't have an army of enthusiasts with the internet trackers following every twitch the aircraft made. So instead of letting the speculation continue, it's best to have a short note explaining what really happened. I think it was a good move on Boeing's part.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13260 posts, RR: 100
Reply 23, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 63122 times:
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Quoting warpspeed (Reply 21):
Do you know if the entirety of the Flight Test Program is utilized for ETOPS certification or is there a subset time period of the program that is defined for ETOPS testing in which IFS' are measured against?

Subset. I've lost track of if any of the current engines will enter the fleet... but there is going to be some infant mortality on instrimentation early on. The FAA knows this.

Please recall that the current Trent1000's are different than what will be the primary in service Trents. RR is re-engineering the engines as fast as they can!

I suspect the faulty instriment will also be re-engineered to restart the clock too. Or the software will be modified to be less fault sensitive. During early fligth testing it is common to 'undo software locks.' I've yet to see a prototype who didn't have jittery software aborts; these are opened up later in flight testing.

787Seattle, thank you for the link.

Lightsaber



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User currently offlinepnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2248 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (4 years 8 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 63078 times:

Quoting SilentJC (Reply 22):
Quoting Stitch (Reply 20):
Thanks for finding this... and good on Boeing for being forthright about the nature of the problem.

I think in the face of the speculative reporting that went on it was almost imperative for someone at Boeing to come out with an official quote. I mean, I'm sure similar issues happened during previous programs. They just didn't have an army of enthusiasts with the internet trackers following every twitch the aircraft made. So instead of letting the speculation continue, it's best to have a short note explaining what really happened. I think it was a good move on Boeing's part.

Companies are learning slowly to keep in front of issues before speculation builds on speculation and things spin out of control. The days of doing anything quietly is over. And unfortunately with the cuts in newsrooms, papers downsizing, and the 24/7 news cycle neverending, much more inaccurate information makes it into the more mainstream because there isn't the staff or patience to check things out properly. By the time a retraction or correction is made it has already imprinted in people's minds. "We now know..." is used to correct instead of "we were wrong and jumped the gun with bad information."

Boeing might be less impacted than say a company that deals with large numbers of customers, but still they seem to be learning and making better use of the new media.


25 Rheinbote : According to the media package, it's a subset of time periods, primarily using aircraft LN2 and LN3 for Trent engines, and LN5 and LN6 for GEnx engin
26 lightsaber : That makes sense. Since ETOPS is the whole airframe (not just the engines), Boeing would want to use another airframe other than the first frame. I'm
27 tdscanuck : No. Although this is true, the flight test fleet won't come anywhere close to enough hours to demonstrate the IFS rate to a statistical certainty...m
28 Laddie : I hear ZA004 will try again for a first flight late this morning. Let's hope for no more pre-flight squawks. BFI here we come!
29 Clickhappy : ZA004 is not scheduled to fly today.
30 clemsonaj : Anyone know what the flight number will be called when 004 flys? So far it's been BOE001 and BOE002. Will this one be 3, 4, or some other designation?
31 Laddie : She will be BOE004, ZA003 will be BOE003, ZA005 will be BOE005, and ZA006 will be BOE006 for the duration of the 787 flight test.[Edited 2010-02-23 1
32 Laddie : That's a shame. We will try again tomorrow.
33 dan2002 : Looks like shes doing some higher altitude testing today, ZA001 is currently cruising at 30,000+ feet, I believe for the first time.
34 Post contains links warpspeed : Found the link below while viewing some vids on flutter testing. Underscores how punishing flutter testing can be on a plane and that one should expec
35 Post contains links skyhawk62507 : Flight plan filed this morning for BOE4... FlightAware has it listed as a 777 from PAE-MWH, but the (correct) 788 from MWH to BFI: http://flightaware.
36 United787 : How do you know the 772LR is incorrect?
37 Post contains images Frigatebird : Here's you're answer, from the horse's mouth (sorry Laddie, that's not litteral of course )
38 gregarious119 : Yeah I just got the flight plan alert for the MWH-BFI leg... I'm sitting there thinking "I wasn't away from my desk for *that* long... Anyone know if
39 Post contains links Revelation : What do we make of this report from yesterday? Boeing Probes 787 Engine Issue And: Looked for a thread on this elsewhere but didn't find one.
40 warpspeed : It is old news as ZA001 had a 3.5 hour flutter test flight yesterday in which it reached speeds up to M0.89 at FL300 (according to Flightaware).
41 Revelation : Thanks for the update, warpspeed.
42 WestWing : The flight plan for PAE -MWH has now been corrected to show 788 instead of 77L ETD one hour form now.
43 UAL747-600 : BOE4 is now officially a 788 on flightaware. UAL747-600[Edited 2010-02-24 09:22:19]
44 adipasqu : Wow, it looks like ZA002, ZA004, and RC501 are all going to be up in the air at the same time today...cool stuff!!! No ZA001 today...yet.[Edited 2010-
45 Laddie : Back to ZA001's one-engine inoperative flight on Friday: I am a little worried that it appears one faulty pressure sensor spooled down the engine. Sur
46 Post contains images WestWing : Whoever is filing Boeing test flight plans for needs to get themselves a cup of coffee to improve alertness. The BOE2 equipment type is (at present) f
47 Laddie : The rumors are that ZA004 was supposed to do taxi tests until 0930 PST today, then fly at about 1030 PST. [Edited 2010-02-24 10:20:07][Edited 2010-02
48 nomadd22 : I imagine it will be Rolls' responsibility to satisfy all that the root cause of the sensor problem is understood and won't pop up somewhere else. Goi
49 United787 : According to FlightAware, ZA004 was supposed to take off and hour ago...
50 Stitch : No reports on the local radio news about ZA004 being airborne...
51 Post contains links warpspeed : She's now scheduled...with that said, cheers to the ground crew that got the test planes airworthy and to the telemetry folks who, undoubtedly, will
52 skyhawk62507 : Throughout the test program to date, it's not uncommon for planned departure times to be hours before actual.
53 LY4XELD : ZA004 and ZA001 off the ground. 3 787's flying today!
54 Post contains links and images United787 : http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE4 Flightaware says she is 'En Route"...is this true?
55 Post contains links gregarious119 : BOE4 is up! Can't wait to see the video on youtube later... Boeing has 4 aircraft up at the moment, but no RC501 or ZA002 at the moment: http://flight
56 skyhawk62507 : ZA002 was up earlier this morning, and should now be on the ground at MWH (possibly awaiting ZA004's arrival.) RC501 shows its flightplan delayed fou
57 Post contains links Laddie : ZA004 is supposed to go to BFI for post-flight inspection and lay-up work, but FlightAware is showing MWH as her destination. MWH will be for refueli
58 ikramerica : Possibly to confirm gear operation after the FF of ZA002 had that issue. Do one landing/take off cycle at Moses Lake before ferrying to BFI.
59 hawkercamm : With ZA004 flying Boeing will soon have a very good idea of the cruise performance.
60 Laddie : It's amazing technology that we can so closely track all the 788 and 748 flights (thank you FlightAware). I wonder if there was similar technology in
61 Post contains links hawkercamm : Looks like ZA001 is inching towards Md.... M0.91,0.92... http://flightaware.com/live/flight/B.../20100224/2015Z/KBFI/KBFI/tracklog
62 ikramerica : 0.93... How close will they take it? Do they get past 0.95?
63 Dan23 : Those Mach speeds are supposedly ground speeds so I'm not sure how that would relate to the actual airspeed of ZA001 at the time. Some ground speeds r
64 dan2002 : Heck of a day for Boeing, ZA001 has been in the air for what I believe one of its longest, highest, and fastest flights yet, ZA004 took its first flig
65 ikramerica : Well, they went over .9 in various directions, so they are flirting with Md. I would imagine the Md testing is close, unless they found a problem at
66 Post contains links skyhawk62507 : Also of note, ZA004 spent a good portion of its first-ever flight at FL300, according to FlightAware. That's about twice as high as for the first fli
67 ikramerica : ZA002 flew before airworthiness was granted. ZA004 can do more right off the bat than ZA002 could.
68 tdscanuck : There often are but, much more importantly, you've got an entire backup *engine*. Engines, much more so than most of the other parts of the airplane,
69 United787 : No pictures of ZA004?
70 petera380 : Yes, check Flight Blogger @ Flight Global, includes videos
71 skyhawk62507 : Duh, I shoulda figured that out... thanks!
72 ikramerica : Make up your mind Tom. I think you answered your own question...
73 dan2002 : According to flightaware, ZA001 is/was cruising above Mach 1.
74 Post contains links warpspeed : Looks like the Dreamliner just morphed into the Sonic Cruiser. Flightaware has it breaking Mach 1.... And we thought Boeing only kept the bad news und
75 adipasqu : Ground speed folks...probably a hefty tailwind up there today. Wonder what the upwind ground speed will be...
76 warpspeed : Understood...just having a little fun.
77 adipasqu : I figured...aren't we all with this!?! Sure beats getting real work done!
78 warpspeed : Certainly the Test Pilots and support crew don't have to say this!!! Real work = fun. Seriously, though, is there a maximum speed at which the 787 co
79 ikramerica : Somewhere between Mach 0.96 and Mach 1, though it's possible that a supersonic blip won't destroy it. I believe some subsonic aircraft have gone supe
80 Laddie : I remember something about an incident decades (?) ago where a 727 had an upset during cruise, and went into a dive during which the airplane went su
81 catdaddy63 : It looks like ZA001 has climbed to FL400 for the first time today! Obviously continuing the flutter tests at a more normal cruise level.
82 Laddie : Check out the very fast ground speeds ZA001 is flying today. She is clearing flutter at various altitudes. This is a very important milestone in the
83 cosmofly : Are we looking at the reborn of the Sonic Cruiser?
84 warpspeed : Well, if not a rebirth it is a hat tip to that project as I believe some of the Dreamliner (i.e. significant use of composite materials) was born out
85 Drewski2112 : I heard on the radio that flying to FL430 was their last test of the day before landing at BFI.
86 tdscanuck : I'm not following you here...they're different requirements. If you want a nice quiet environment to do takeoff/landings, go to MWH. If you're worrie
87 Post contains images ikramerica : And it couldn't be verified without flying the aircraft as a drone for the specific purpose of doing so. Would be an interesting experiment, but wast
88 Post contains links 757GB : NYC777 did a nice review of where all the 787s are right now: http://nyc787.blogspot.com/2010/02/keep-line-moving.html
89 warpspeed : Interesting that NYC777 notes we may not see ZA003 fly until mid-March and that ZA005 could be readied sooner. Just a couple of weeks ago Runway Girl
90 NYC777 : Les deux cadres devaient Se rendre ce week-end. J ' Nope they're not having issues with the cabin. It's not a high priority right now. Getting airplan
91 Stitch : I believe Lightsaber, Allegro and others have noted the GEnx2B is a more advanced model than the GEnx1B. GE removed too much weight from the GEnx1B w
92 zainmax : Any idea how many tests they have done ZA001 ? What about GEnx's ETOPS certification program ?
93 Post contains links WarpSpeed : Boeing has set up a site for tracking the program with a fair amount of background information http://787flighttest.com/ Here is a quick cut and past
94 tdscanuck : Keep in mind that Boeing's website and flightaware are only tracking flights...something like half of the test hour are ground tests, which don't sho
95 zainmax : Well right now the prior need is to replace B743 and B733 with B772/B773 and B738NG respectively. But PIA can consider B787 in future, may be after 1
96 Post contains links nomadd22 : No problem with ZA003. They're just adding some gear before first flight that was originally planned for after. http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fl..
97 WarpSpeed : So, the Flight Test Program has accumulated 200 plus flight hours over 2 1/2 months with essentially two planes. We've seen a few hiccups along the wa
98 BoeEngr : With each passing day, and each additional test successfully checked off the list, my optimism and confidence grows. So as of today, yes I do indeed
99 ikramerica : This is not the thread for this. This is a flight tracking thread, not an opinion thread.
100 Post contains images Zkpilot : I got to see 10 different 787s today they're looking fantastic! Unpainted the nose looks a bit weird. They have such clean lines.
101 WarpSpeed : ZA004 has not taken to the skies since its first flight. Any idea how much longer until we can expect her back up? I much prefer the approach noted fo
102 BoeEngr : I think you'll see her back up by the end of next week.
103 NYC777 : Well that's either today or tomorrow! Opps I thought it was end of this week. Well then in the next 8 days instead![Edited 2010-03-03 12:23:48]
104 WarpSpeed : plus 7 days....
105 NYC777 : BTW, ZA001 is up and according to Flightaware will be flying for over 10 hours. We'll see if that actually happens.
106 ikramerica : Original flight plan was filed for shorter period, with a second flight plan filed later in the day (to and from Moses Lake) but it might have been s
107 ikramerica : Well, it landed after 3:30. Now it's back in the air with a 1 minute flight approximation, which is also obviously wrong. So we have to take the estim
108 Post contains images Drewski2112 : Listening to 123.425 & 123.325 Mhz is a great way find out how long a flight will last
109 Post contains links GothamSpotter : Heads up, SoCal: FlightBlogger reports 787 ZA002 will be making her first trip outside of Washington on Tuesday for some flight tests at VCV. Not cert
110 Post contains images lightsaber : You are correct. The GEnX-2B is a more advanced engine. GE learned a thing or two from Pratt and the GP7200. I'm seriously. I have coworkers who stil
111 Robt760 : I was just going to ask when we might expect to see the 787 flying around in CA. Weren't there to be some tests done at Edwards AFB as well?
112 Laddie : I heard ZA002's ETA at VCV is 11 AM PT on Tuesday. This is just an estimate. ZA001 will go to Edwards for rejected takeoff tests in the July or Augus
113 Post contains links UPS707 : FP Just filed... Looks like 1208 arrival if things stay on course. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE2
114 Post contains images EA772LR : Such an exciting thought that we could see 787s in service by the end of this year... I wonder if Boeing will integrate the BLISK tech into the -1B a
115 PPVRA : Is this the furthest it has gone (or will go)?
116 Post contains links gregarious119 : Just departed 11:40 ET, looks to be in the air around 3hr45min http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE2
117 tdscanuck : That would be GE's call, not Boeing's. I think this is the furthest to date, but I suspect it's not the furthest it will go. Tom.
118 azhobo : I think there is a possibility that they will start 787 deliveries in October.
119 Post contains images PizzaPolli : Here is ZA002 at VCV:
120 Post contains images dlphoenix : On a pilgrimage to visit its ancestors
121 Post contains images Stitch : Either that or checking out her future home, since she won't be going into revenue service.
122 Post contains images PPVRA : I'm sure it's not the furthest it wil go, I just inserted that because the flight had not taken off yet
123 BlatantEcho : I'm sure it's not the focus yet, and they haven't done any long range flights in normal commercial airline profile.....but I still wonder what Boeing
124 Post contains images EA772LR : Yeah my bad, I meant to say GE, not Boeing. I thought all but ZA001 and the static test frame were to find homes at a discounted price...
125 gregarious119 : anyone know what that white streak coming off the vertical stabilizer is in the top picture?
126 NYC777 : The line to the static pressure cone that trails behind the aircraft.
127 zainmax : Any videos of the 787 test program will be appreciated. Good luck with the tests in VCV.
128 gregarious119 : I thought that was only a first flight or two thing...does it stay attached throughout the flight test? Any notice on fuel burn from it hanging there
129 Ronaldo747 : It must be an odd sight: the new technology 787 along with many many retired, old workhorses over there.
130 Post contains links tdscanuck : ZA001, 002, and 003 were all switched from "inventory" to "R&D" expense last year, which is Boeing's way of saying they'll never be sold. http://
131 Post contains links WarpSpeed : ZA003 is reportedly cleared for first flight 10AM PDT this Sunday. I've been wondering why ZA004 has been on the ground a long time. Here's the answer
132 tdscanuck : How do we know it was a diversion and not just a normal test? Boeing flight tests go to MWH all the time and they were only on the ground for 1:22. T
133 WarpSpeed : Because FlightAware said "diverted.' Sure, flight tests go to MWH all the time but, typically, there is first a flight plan filed showing MWH as a de
134 clickhappy : ZA004 is scheduled to fly today.
135 Post contains images lightsaber : It is certain that both will find their way into the -1B as well as with turbine and blade shape improvements. As others have noted, by GE. RR's big
136 Rheinbote : There's talk about certification targeted at end of September and first delivery in October. But how realistic is that?
137 Stitch : Well they have four test birds in the air by the end of the month, which is tracking generally to plan (one new bird added to the fleet each month af
138 flyboyseven : How many airports have now had the 787 land at them? BFI VCV PAE MWH NUW Any others?
139 XT6Wagon : my guess is RR already wrote off the engines on the 3 frames Boeing moved to R&D. I don't know what thier contract with Boeing states as far as t
140 LY4XELD : GEG on 1 Feb.
141 StudeDave : Was it ever determined that the 787 did indeed hit the runway at NAS WI? Just wondering~ it seemed like no one could be sure at the time...
142 tdscanuck : It was determined that they did *not*. Tom.
143 Post contains links tdscanuck : ZA003 has filed a flight plan: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE3 Tom.
144 nomadd22 : If it's similar to what we've done, it's an accounting thing to move associated costs out of production and into R&D to save on taxes, since thos
145 dan2002 : Apparently PMD yesterday.
146 tdscanuck : ZA003 is wheels up. Tom.
147 Post contains images MCIGuy : ZA003 is up!
148 Post contains links clickhappy : Here is a shot of ZA003 departing PAE: http://www.flickr.com/photos/royalscottking/4432127647/
149 LY4XELD : It filed a flight plan, but did not land at PMD.
150 brons2 : So, ZA003 is up, is ZA004 still sorting out software V5.5? All of the RR powered test aircraft have now flown at least once. When will ZA005 fly?
151 Post contains links pnwtraveler : In the video Matt has up on his site you can hear the growl of the engines much better. The first flights all had background noise from the chase plan
152 Post contains links yazoo : ZA003 Completed test-flight, so now officially Fourth 787: http://empirestatefx.com/airtravel/f...87-joins-boeing-flight-test-fleet/ Does anyone know
153 Post contains images caryjack : That wing flex is something to see. I would think energy stored in that manner could help to smooth landings or turbulence. The Rolls-Royce engines o
154 JoeCanuck : 4 787's in the air...maybe it's geeky to say but that is so frickin' cool...and a relief.
155 STT757 : CO is taking six in 2011, 4 in the 3rd Qtr. 2011 and 2 in the 4th Qtr of 2011.
156 Post contains images Rheinbote : Not before GE has delivered the engines, I guess.
157 Post contains images frigatebird : I really like the sound of the Trent1000. It has a nice 'buzz', typical of RR I guess. If you want to know what the GEnx sounds like, listen to the 7
158 NYC777 : I've put up a new post on my 787 blog addressing the flight testing hours todate and what Boeing needs to do to make sure that the 787 is tested and c
159 ikramerica : The program has passed 3 milestones in a matter of days: 100 Flights 300 Hours All 4 RR planes in the air That's about 10% of the flight hours for the
160 Rheinbote : As far as ground testing of systems goes. But what's the status of static testing of ZY997? Has fatigue testing of ZY998 started yet?
161 ER757 : ZA004 is set to take its 2nd flight later today if Flightaware is to be believed. Just may have to take a quick hop over to BFI to see her depart and
162 ikramerica : No idea. But they have more ground than flight hours scheduled as part of the certification, IIRC over 3500 ground hours, and they have put in many h
163 ER757 : Went to see ZA004 depart this afternoon and they did an RTO, turned off the runway, taxied back to the end and departed. Anyone know if the RTO was pl
164 ikramerica : My guess is that you don't have an unplanned RTO in a test aircraft, and then simply taxi back and try again. They would want to check things out. So
165 ER757 : That makes sense - thanks for the reply and the explanation - it's one reason I love a.net. There are folks with knowledge here who can answer questi
166 ikramerica : It's not an explanation, it's a guess. Could be checking brake cooling, other systems. Who knows? But I doubt that if it was unexpected they would go
167 Post contains links tdscanuck : Excellent article here (with pictures) of how 787 flutter testing is run: http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/03...-the-brains-of-boeing-flight-test/ To
168 Laddie : An excellent summary! Wired.com was given extraordinary access to Boeing's TM room.
169 NYC777 : 997 is supposed to conduct the ulimate load test today. 998 is being prepped for the start of fatigue tests. It's already in the test rig.
170 Drewski2112 : Dunno if anyone else cares, but I found this interesting: There are three 787's in the Boeing flight test hangar (3-390 Bldg) at BFI today.
171 NYC777 : Well the test flight 787s are based at BFI so it makes sense they wold be there in the hangar until the TIA is issued which should be very soon.
172 JAAlbert : I took the Boeing factory tour the other day. There were more 787s than you could shake a stick at! At least two were parked outside and another three
173 Post contains links IAD787 : First photo of the 150% flex! Absolutely incredible: http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fl...ource-zy997-completes-150-ult.html Onward, IAD787
174 Post contains images lightsaber : I can guarantee they wouldn't do an unplanned RTO without inspections. I have no further insight into what test it is. But this is a.net, so I'll hav
175 tdscanuck : They can do flight and ground test without TIA...they just can't do certain certification testing without TIA. And, naturally, they can do a lot of g
176 Post contains links gregarious119 : Looks like ZA001 is heading out to the isolated Glasgow Industrial Airport to do some Community Noise work. www.airnav.com/airport/07MT www.flightawar
177 Post contains links JoeCanuck : ZA005 has made its public debut; http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fl...irst-genx-1b-powered-787-make.html
178 LY4XELD : Community noise work for 2 hours? They headed back to BFI at 845PM GMT according to FA. That seems unlikely.
179 MCIGuy : What's going on with 003 and 004? They haven't flown in a while now.
180 United787 : So this is the furthest East the 787 has travelled and the furthest distance from home, correct? Also, I noticed that it went to 41,000...is that the
181 Laddie : ZA003 has been doing some ground testing. It should fly next week. ZA004 is in lay-up having flight test instrumentation installed on the engines. Sh
182 WarpSpeed : ZA002 did ground effects testing in Victorville, CA. which appears to be further than Glasgow Industrial Airport. During flutter testing, 787 ZA001 r
183 NYC777 : Both ZA003 and ZA004 is tentatively scheduled to fly by tomorrow, April 3rd. ZA002 is tentatively scheduled to be flying again by April 9th.
184 MCIGuy : What's going on? Are they not flying in anticipation of the issuance of the TIA?
185 NYC777 : TIA should come around the middle of this week and some of the airplanes should be back in the air today.
186 Stitch : Also, Seattle weather the past few days was atrocious - heavy rain and very high winds. Plus Easter weekend.
187 Post contains links catdaddy63 : ZA004 is currently scheduled to fly this afternoon. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE4
188 bonusonus : Sorry for the novice question, but what does TIA stand for? some sort of testing certification I assume, but i couldnt find it on wikipedia...
189 BoeEngr : Type Inspection Authorization. I understand it to mean that the FAA has reviewed the certification documentation and believes the airplane will meet
190 Post contains links Laddie : Boeing is now predicting first delivery will be by the end of November: http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=19937 I hope they are correct
191 Post contains images Stitch : Well Airbus had the A380 in the air, so they knew it worked. What tripped them up (and continues to cause them to stumble) is the delays in outfitting
192 Kit777 : Hi, Sorry if this has been asked before, (I did do a brief check!) but when will ZA005 take its first flight? Thanks Kit
193 Post contains links and images Jacobin777 : Here is your answer... "Meanwhile, ZA005, the fifth flight test aircraft and the first powered by GEnx-1B engines, is on the flight line at Everett a
194 WarpSpeed : From the report we don't know the character of the target date. Is it externally voiced - (a la hubris) or an internal one (necessarily derived from
195 United787 : I am guessing that the airlines are not going to want them all in one day because it will be too much to handle. I am betting they will spread them o
196 Kit777 : Thank you very much, not too long then! Thanks
197 Post contains images EA772LR : This is so freakin exciting! So many 787s in the air already with more to come. It seems once Boeing got their momentum going end of last fall, they'
198 NYC777 : Actually I got word that ZA005 will fly on May 16th...a little later than planned. ZA006 will fly around June 6th
199 WarpSpeed : Any insight into why ZA005 is delayed? A few weeks ago I had the impression she was going to ready sooner rather than later....
200 NYC777 : I'm trying to find out but no one is saying anything. I think they're just trying to get more of the needed flight test equipement on board. They sti
201 tdscanuck : They should...gauntlet is one of the last tests before flight. No sense in doing gauntlet 4-6 weeks ahead of planned flight. Tom.
202 Post contains links WarpSpeed : Check this out....Looks like ZA001 is "go" for expansion of the flight envelope today... http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE1
203 tdscanuck : I'm not following you...what am I looking at here that shows an expanded flight envelope? Tom.
204 Post contains links clickhappy : The last two days has seen ZA001 do some short field landings at PAE. Pretty cool stuff, nose high approaches and lots of reverse thrust. Here is a la
205 MadameConcorde : Any idea when they will be sending the aircraft(s) out for hot weather and cold weather testing? How about when they will be starting medium and long
206 flyboyseven : And where are they sending them for cold weather? I know that the A380 used Iqaluit on Baffin Island, but it is getting in to summer up there, so wil
207 tdscanuck : Depends on what temperatures are needed...you can only get so cold in the southern hemisphere in practical locations. There's always a cold hanger th
208 Post contains links UAL747-600 : Boe3 will finally fly again today. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE3 Maybe sometime in the next month we'll see all 4 in the air at once but I d
209 Post contains links and images nra-3b : Looks like ZA003 will be in the air today. About time.... http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE3 Naturally, I just got back from Seattle last night.
210 Post contains links UAL747-600 : BOE1 and BOE2 are also flying today. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE1 http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE2 UAL747-600
211 Post contains links Laddie : Ostrower is reporting the 787 will be sent to Eglin Air Force Base in Fort Walton Beach, Florida, for cold-soak testing: http://www.flightglobal.com/
212 MadameConcorde : Florida for cold weather testing sounds rather paradoxical. Can't they go to Greenland?
213 Stitch : As many of us speculated, Boeing appears to have decided to use an artificial structure which can be chilled to meet the temperature requirements. Ho
214 Post contains links PPVRA : Take a look: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...100-completes-cold-soak-tests.html I suspect it will bee the same facility.
215 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Thanks.. .....I'm optimistic Boeing will deliver the first B787 on time...or close to...!
216 tdscanuck : Tah dah! It depends which regulator you're talking about. The FAA only requires the "fire up" test. Transport Canada requires the really cold cold so
217 Stitch : Ah. Well that's good to hear. From what I know, AC won't get planes until at least 2011, so they can perform Transport Canada's test over Winter 2010
218 NYC777 : I'm sure Boeing can still do the extreme weather flight testing in November and still satidfy the needed Canadian and FAA requirements before first de
219 WarpSpeed : Anyone have an update on TIA? Last I heard it was to have been granted as early as last weekend. And this was to be approximately 6 weeks past the ori
220 ikramerica : 003 flew four sorties BFI-BFI on April 14th. Anyone know what they were up to, flying 4 flights in one day, about 1.5 hours each? This is a different
221 MCIGuy : 003 is testing cabin environment, so maybe they're testing noise at takeoff and landing? Full engine power, thrust reversers, etc?
222 tdscanuck : Unlikely...BFI is a terrible place to do noise testing because it's right next to a major interstate, right under the north approach to SEA, and has
223 Post contains links 787atPAE : It looks like ZA003 is heading to FL today as Flightblogger reported: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE3
224 mattcawby : BOE003 just left the Boeing ramp and is taxiing to 13R at 1403z.
225 gregarious119 : Does anyone know if the 5 hours to/from Eglin for the cold soak include any testing or is it strictly a ferry flight? I wonder if these hours count to
226 tdscanuck : It all depends on who is onboard. Experimental tickets can be pretty restrictive...either you do testing, in which case you can only carry people you
227 clemsonaj : I wonder if Boeing will have 003 make a stop in Charleston while they have a plane on the east coast. Would be an easy excuse for some PR here in SC.
228 CAETravlr : If they do, I hope someone will post it ahead of time, I would love to see that!
229 tdscanuck : They'd have to file a flight plan...that's likely the first official notice that will come out, although I'm sure it would leak before then. Tom.
230 NYC777 : ZA003 will be at Eglin until April 27th and then will head to either San Antonio or Yuma for hot weather testing.
231 justloveplanes : Any news on SFC for the Rolls? Fuel burn overall? Closely guarded most likely...
232 Stitch : {er AW&ST, the Trent 1000's powering all four aircraft have been fitted with at least the Package A PiP, so they are better than the 4-5% SFC mis
233 IMissPiedmont : That would be warm weather at best, I doubt even YUM will break 90 by then and SAT sure won't. I just want to walk out my office door one nice summer
234 ikramerica : For whatever reason Boeing used flight BOE3 today for a 77W. And the Boeing Flight Test website links to it, as BOE3 was supposed to remain reserved f
235 Drewski2112 : Boeing assigns flight test numbers based on their block (variable) number. The third 787's block number is ZA003, while the ANA 77W, I believe (could
236 mattcawby : That was WE003, ANA JA786A. Taxi test only on April 20, first flight will be attempted April 21.
237 aeropiggot : TIA was granted today for the 787, now the FAA will get onboard for some certification flights.
238 ikramerica : Thing is, I clicked on the links in the Boeing page for 787 #3, and it linked to Flightaware, with two 777 flight plans filed as BOE003: Paine to Mos
239 Post contains links SV777 : 2 new nice videos about flutter and ground effects testings. http://787flighttest.com/787-flight-test-program-progressing/
240 Pygmalion : Initial TIA was Feb 11th for flutter testing. This is the expanded TIA. They also passed 500 hours last weekend and froze the aerodynamic configurati
241 WarpSpeed : Some interesting nuggets of info. on the 787 Flight Test Program from Boeing's earning call today: Contingency time or cushion remains the same as not
242 Rheinbote : Actually RR said Package B will come "to within 1% of target" which is a euphemism for a figure closer to 1,5%. IIRC Package B will not be available
243 tdscanuck : That should be correct; the Boeing site only shows actual flight hours. If cert required, say, 100 hours on the hydraulics system and 100 hours on th
244 NYC777 : [quote = NYC777, la r Don't think you're drinking kool-aid. The delay has helped Boeing mature the systems and refine their model. This allowed them t
245 Post contains images EA772LR : Airbus experienced similar benefits with the A380 program IIRC. I'm just glad to see the 787 moving along so nicely after such a turbulent start. Con
246 ikramerica : I don't see how. Flight testing started nearly on time, but then the problems were found and it ran much longer than it should have. So they found th
247 PolymerPlane : Awesome videos, including a cross wind 787 landing video. I was intrigued with this quote "we can run these tests (flutter) almost in straight level
248 Post contains links Yazoo : It's down in florida for extreme weather testing : 787 Dreamliner Undergoing Extreme-Weather Testing in Florida
249 ikramerica : Why have no 787s flown for days? What's up? Also, now the 77W is back under the BOE3 flighttracking, the same flights from the other day I was asking
250 Stitch : ZA003 is undergoing cold soak testing in FL at the moment. Weather here in Seattle has been really nuts - alternating between clear skies and thunders
251 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Gives Boeing a chance to see how the B787 stands to lightning.....
252 BO__einG : Can some of you guys give a quick rundown of the status of the 787s that are on flight/ground tests? I have been on flightaware and also have not noti
253 BoeEngr : ZA004 should be flying through the weekend.
254 tdscanuck : Yes. They are very sporadic and can fly anytime. The best giveaway is when they file a flight plan, but even that isn't gospel. Closeup taxi views ar
255 Post contains links Stitch : The Seattle-PI posted a picture of AT's first 787 (LN017). It's a bum-on shot, so the livery is mostly obscured, but frankly it looks like a dull live
256 ikramerica : That's not the reason though. Reported #1 and #2 won't fly for 1-2 weeks, #4 will fly soon. Obviously #3 has been busy in a hangar, so busy Boeing ha
257 tdscanuck : They didn't reassign it...the normal convention is that the flight number is BOExxx where xxx is the numeric portion of that particular aircraft's va
258 NYC777 : For those of you who are interested, ZA004 is at Victorville after flying there from BFI with FAA inspecors aboard. This kicks off the certification t
259 Stitch : So she has her TIA now?
260 Post contains links Stitch : Indeed she does - http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-to-787-flight-test-programme.html
261 NYC777 : The entire program has the TIA.
262 Post contains images Stitch : I was using the "Royal she".
263 Post contains links ORDFan : Some cool footage (video) of cold-weather testing in Florida, courtesy of Seattle Times... http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...chnology/2011674665_
264 JoeCanuck : That was very...er...cool.
265 Post contains links Rheinbote : What are the two metallic bands around ZA003's fuselage good for? There's one around the forward fsuelage and one around the aft. Some kind of test in
266 OldAeroGuy : It appears to be "speed tape" that is probably covering some type of wiring/instrumentation. Note that both bands have a small tail that goes to the
267 teme82 : I still think that they should conduct the test in real coldness not just a hangar that has been frozen over...
268 Stitch : The volume of air isn't important to the test, just the temperature.
269 tdscanuck : How would that be different? Tom.
270 teme82 : Well as far as I know there was no snow in the test... I think that they should study how snow accumulates on the planes surface. Perhaps but how abo
271 LY4XELD : Why? What would that accomplish? Snow would obviously be removed before a flight, and loading from accumulating snow is not likely to be a concern. T
272 Post contains images teme82 : That would be real life test not just a simulation ... Often things are different in real life
273 Post contains links and images Stitch : If anything, snow might very well act as an insulating layer, protecting the airframe from reaching the actual ambient temperature. So by not being co
274 NYC777 : Heads Up to any one in Colorado Springs, CO. The 787 will be heading there around May 11th or there abouts. The 747-8 will also making a stop there th
275 clemsonaj : Anyone know why flightaware has consistently been incorrect with flight paths, and aircraft types for the past week or so? I keep getting the BOE3 is
276 Stitch : Actually BOE3 has been a 777 while ZA003 was undergoing her cold soak tests in FL.
277 Post contains links clemsonaj : http://flightaware.com/live/flight/B...3/history/20100428/2155Z/KVPS/KSKF Isn't this the flight from FL to TX that BOE3 took? If not, then what was th
278 Stitch : Yes, it probably is. And yes, therefore FlightAware is wrong. But folks who monitor Boeing flight ops did post that while ZA003 was in the hangar in F
279 RobK : BOE003 (WE003 JA786A B77W) will be test flying til it delivers to All Nipoon on May 17. Soon after that you'll then get a conflict with BOE004 as tha
280 tdscanuck : Of course they should...but why would you do that while trying to do a cold soak test? As noted in prior posts, snow insulates. The McKinley Climatic
281 Post contains links KPDX : I looked and I don't think it's been shared, but here is the first 787 in Royal Air Maroc colors. http://www.flickr.com/photos/planephotoman/457663247
282 Post contains links ha763 : Very true. The Boeing video of the cold weather testing shows snow coming down (at 0:07) and frost and snow on the fuselage and windows (at 0:57). Be
283 SLCGuy : Not surpising, even in a hanger designed for cold soaking. Doubt that even with the best de-humidifier systems available, you could get the dewpoint l
284 Post contains links moderators : This thread will be locked for further contributions. Any posts added to the thread after the threadlock will be removed for housekeeping purposes onl
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