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JFK Departures Using 31R Heavy Today  
User currently offlinecontrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7613 times:

I work at T-5 on the ramp and I've notice an increase in departures using 31R. Today they've been using 31R pretty heavy for departures. In 7 years I really can't recall them using it so much except for sometimes early in the morning and when we had props they would almost always use it. Anyway, just making an observation and just wondering why its being used so much. The other day was a real trip as they were departing on 31R and 22R at the same time. I happend to be working gate 14 at the time so I got a front row seat for that.


Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21088 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7609 times:

Isn't 31L closing pretty soon for maintenance? I'd imagine they're getting used to the procedures that they'll be using once it's no longer an option.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinecontrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7576 times:

Thats what I was thinking. They have been gradually using 31R and today the que for departures on 31R was 11 at one point so today by far was the most at least that I've notice them using it.


Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineMadDogJT8D From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 393 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7547 times:

I heard them doing both 31R only and 31R/22R departures this week on LiveATC - very cool to listen to. I'm fairly certain this is because of the work being done on the 31L resurfacing, but there might be another reason that someone more enlightened than me might know.

User currently offlineSuper Em From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 442 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7496 times:

4L for departures and arrivals
4R for arrivals.

I didnt see 31R for departures. Maybe it was early in the morning.
One night 31R was used for departures. So you might be right.


User currently offlineDublinLiam From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7416 times:

NY Times article on upkeep
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...roject-at-kennedy-to-cause-delays/


User currently offlineFleet Service From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 622 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7364 times:

I was listening to the tower last night and heard LH411 ask their position in the take off line and the tower advised he was "About 20" and maybe an hour or so after that I heard another call to the tower asking position and the tower said 40.

Long night for the guys and gals in the tower cab.



Yes, I actually *do* work for an airline,how about you?
User currently offlinerjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 7206 times:

Last time I saw them regularly use 31R was during the horrible snowstorm NYC got in the winter of 2006. 31L was closed due to a stuck Turkish A343, so all departures were on 31R. I've seen them use 13L fairly often though.

Quoting Fleet Service (Reply 6):
Long night for the guys and gals in the tower cab.

Was there bad weather at JFK last night? Or just because of the runway construction?


User currently offlinecontrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 7105 times:

Quoting rjpieces (Reply 7):
Was there bad weather at JFK last night? Or just because of the runway construction?

Weather was fine last night although it was pretty windy.


They've started to use 22R and 31R with dual take-offs for a few hours now. I can tell you one thing, aside from when runnway changes happen, there is very little conjestion and our plans are getting cleared off the ramp pretty quick from ground. I'm liking this setup.



Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineMadDogJT8D From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 393 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 7000 times:

FYI the 31R departures are full-length, the 22R departures are from the intersection of YA, which is the first intersection south of 31R so there are no traffic conflicts or crossing runways for departures.

User currently offlinecontrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6861 times:

So I talk to a buddy of mine in our operations department and this has to do with the construction. There testing out pretty much of what it gonna be like when the construction starts. On our docking system now, there actually scrolling ETT (Est. time taxing). I was told that its the time in which they want flts to push out when there is too much congestion on the taxi way. So what does that for ramp. A lot of waiting and its already started. block outs at say 0630 are going out 0645


Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineMadDogJT8D From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 393 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6782 times:

Very interesting stuff contrails - great that B6 is being proactive and moving push times around congestion periods. Let us know if you discover any other operational changes in conjunction with the construction project. I wish DL would do the same type of study and avoid the 1-2 hour gate waits that seem to happen even on good days...

User currently offlinecontrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks ago) and read 6630 times:

Quoting MadDogJT8D (Reply 11):
Very interesting stuff contrails - great that B6 is being proactive and moving push times around congestion periods. Let us know if you discover any other operational changes in conjunction with the construction project. I wish DL would do the same type of study and avoid the 1-2 hour gate waits that seem to happen even on good days...

I'm not exactly sure where these ETT's are coming from. I would guess it is from us, perhaps an effort to help out the cause, the cause being congestion do to the new departure/arrival procedures. However, maybe JFK itself are dictating block off times in reguard to what ever the situation is at the time of the scheduled push but that seems like an awful lot of work on top of the craziness thats going on already. I'm gonna try and get more info and see if other airlines are having to do the same thing. Its not all the time that we push using the ETT thats given, seems like its every now and then. I did 4 flights the other day and only one of them used the ETT time.



Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlinefirstclasser From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks ago) and read 6620 times:

I have never seen 4R/22L used for takeoffs. Similarly, I've never seen 22R/4L used for landings.

User currently onlineANITIX87 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 3292 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6540 times:
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Quoting firstclasser (Reply 13):
Similarly, I've never seen 22R/4L used for landings.

I have on a few occasions. One time spotting 22L landings, I was waiting for Malev, which I'd never seen in person. And HA-LHA came in on 22R. I was SO MAD!

As for take-offs on 31R, what is the procedure? Is it the same as 31L, with the sharp bank to the left just after lift-off? That's what the charts seem to imply.

TIS



www.stellaryear.com: Canon EOS 50D, Canon EOS 5DMkII, Sigma 50mm 1.4, Canon 24-70 2.8L II, Canon 100mm 2.8L, Canon 100-4
User currently offlinecontrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6437 times:

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 14):
As for take-offs on 31R, what is the procedure? Is it the same as 31L, with the sharp bank to the left just after lift-off? That's what the charts seem to imply.

From what I've observed, 31R is a hard bank to the left. When duel take offs are going on with 31R and 22R, by the time 31R straightens out from banking, its parallel with the plane that took off from 22R. Well, at least it looks that way. Its very interesting to see theses procedures as well as how they have them taxing.



Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlinemoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2242 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6335 times:

Quoting firstclasser (Reply 13):
Similarly, I've never seen 22R/4L used for landings.

I've seen 22R used for landings many times, usually in conjunction with 22L arrivals as well.



KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlineArt at ISP From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 178 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6304 times:

I departed JFK this morning on UA23 to LAX. They were departing 22R from YA and 31R full length. There was a line for departure, but it moved pretty steadily. 22R departures were held at 4000 feet on departure I guess to let 31R Breezy Point climb departures get above them.

We took off 22R at YA, and over the shore line, we were turned left to 090--it was a GAYEL departure to LAX this morning. Had it been RBV, we could have gone either way--22R or 31R.

And to echo Moose's comment, 22R is used regularly along with 22L for arrivals, especially at crunch time.

Interesting note, however, when I arrived at JFK around 7AM for my 8:30 flight, they were landing/departing 4's. One of the departures seemed to head straight out on runway heading without the normal turn to 100.


User currently offlinecontrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6276 times:

Quoting Art at ISP (Reply 17):
And to echo Moose's comment, 22R is used regularly along with 22L for arrivals, especially at crunch time.

Yeah, 22R is used for arrivals, not out of the norm. Its used especially for early arrivals in the mornings when things are quite. Its great for us and T-4.



Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlinefirstclasser From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6160 times:

What surprises me is that I didn't think 22R was capable due to the lack of approach lights to the airport (unlike 22L)

User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21088 posts, RR: 56
Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6140 times:

Quoting firstclasser (Reply 19):
What surprises me is that I didn't think 22R was capable due to the lack of approach lights to the airport (unlike 22L)

It's got runway lights, and that's enough. You really don't need approach lights unless the visibility goes way down (to about CatI minimums)

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinemoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2242 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6099 times:

Quoting firstclasser (Reply 19):
What surprises me is that I didn't think 22R was capable due to the lack of approach lights to the airport (unlike 22L)

They have an ILS approach to 22R. The mins are a little higher, since the localizer is offset from centerline. It's not unusual to be out shooting 22L arrivals at The Mounds in the afternoon, and have someone sneak in behind you on 22R.



KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlinecontrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3546 times:

On one of my flights today I was on headset and speaking to the pilot before we pushed we talked about the 31R departures. He said that whats been going on is in fact practice runs for when runnway construction starts.


Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineBAW076 From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2006, 750 posts, RR: 27
Reply 23, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3516 times:

Quoting firstclasser (Reply 13):
I have never seen 4R/22L used for takeoffs. Similarly, I've never seen 22R/4L used for landings.

Back in September 2006, I was onboard BA113 from LHR and we landed on 04L, after circling to the North of JFK for almost an hour due to many severe thunderstorms in the JFK area.

Cheers,
Chris.



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User currently offlinerjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3337 times:

Does anyone know exactly when the runway construction is supposed to begin?

25 contrails15 : We were told middle of March and its gonna take 6 months. I thought it was less then that but its 6 months. Summer is gonna be a nightmare but the ma
26 RobertS975 : Actually, I have seen landings on both in the past 48 hours! Actually, not uncommon at all for the tower to issue a "sidestep" to the parallel runway
27 beeweel15 : Yes although I have seen is done rearly . Seen a Swissair MD11 do a sidestep from 31R to 31L it was quite impressive. especially when done on the las
28 flyguy1 : Does anyone know what will happen when southerly, easterly ops are on? Will 13L be used during the next 4 months, or is the conflict with 22L/ R to gr
29 timz : Is that just because it's too much trouble to put the loc antenna in the bay south of the end of the runway? It seems the localizer crosses the runwa
30 Mir : They should be able to use it, with landings on 22L and departures on 22R from an intersection south of 13L. They could use the 22R full length if th
31 AT : But Runway 31R is quite a bit shorter than 31L. Will the super heavy long haul flights be able to use 31R for takeoffs or will they have to use the 22
32 AT : sorry, can someone elaborate/explain? I am not very well versed in this.
33 timz : "Offset" isn't quite the right word. The localizer antenna is alongside the runway instead of on the centerline, and the beam crosses the runway, aime
34 ANITIX87 : Yeah so it's the same as runway 31L with the Canarsie climb. Good to know. TIS
35 MadDogJT8D : That's what JFK has right now - several years ago in anticipation of the A380, the Port Authority widened 22L from 150ft. to 200ft. I remember when i
36 JFKLGANYC : To answer the question of "what ifs" The FAA has projected to the airlines that during the 4 month closure winds will be sustained from the NW or SE i
37 Mir : No real way around that, unfortunately. The good thing is that such winds normally show up in the winter, and the work will be done in the summer. St
38 richierich : This happens quite frequently, if not daily. I have seen it on many occasions and I may have landed on it too. Correct.
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