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747-8F Flight Test Thread  
User currently offline747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 2102 posts, RR: 14
Posted (4 years 6 months 23 hours ago) and read 5967 times:

As the 747-8F FF has been completed several days ago, here is a thread starter about the actual flight testing, performed by the 3 test aircraft (RC501,521 and 522)

For the first time in Boeing's commercial flight test experience, the bulk of the program will be based away from Seattle, while the scale and capabilities of the 747-8F will require testing at the edges of the company's know-how. The effort is led by Andy Hammer, Boeing 747-8 test program manager, a veteran of previous stretch certification and test programs including the 747 Large Cargo Freighter (LCF).

Boeing's overall target is to gain FAA and EASA certification in the fourth quarter after a 3,700-hour test program, of which around 1,600 will be flight hours and 2,100 ground test hours. The campaign will be undertaken with three aircraft

We'll undertake flutter and initial airworthiness on the first aircraft (RC501/ N747EX), and it will also be doing the high- and low-speed configuration work," says Hammer. These will be frozen during completion of the initial stability and control phase while RC501 is based out of Moses Lake, a former Strategic Air Command base in eastern Washington used for 747 testing and training since 1969.

Flight testing will then transition south to Palmdale in Southern California's high desert where Boeing aims to take full advantage of the area's clear skies, open ramp space and existing company facilities

The second 747-8F (RC521/N5017Q)) will join the flight test program as soon as RC501's work confirms the high- and low-speed configuration around mid-March. Painted identically to the first aircraft for the test program, RC521's principal task will be proving the General Electric GEnx-2B67 engines and fuel efficiency of the model measured during NAMS (nautical air miles) tests.

The third test aircraft (RC522) will be rolled out with a production-standard interior, and will be allocated primarily to interior systems tests. Work will be focused on tests of the cargo handling system, environmental control system, smoke detection and halon fire suppression system. Tests will also address additional FAA special conditions concerning protection against cyber-attack, specifically electronic system security protection for the aircraft's control systems as well as for the airline "information domain.

For full flight test info see : http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...nnel=comm&id=news/Flight020410.xml

After the FF flight RC501 was in post-flight lay up and inspection. Also Engine no.1 had to be fixed after a foreign object damaged it during the maiden flight.

Latest news : The second (ferry) flight to Moses Lake for RC501 is now scheduled for Monday, 22 Feb 2010.
(twitter #7478FT)


Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10677 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 23 hours ago) and read 5944 times:

I´m keen to know how the third a/c will be painted. I guess the same as the other two, or bare white. I doubt they´ll paint it in the colours of (later owner) NCA, as Cargolux as launch customer surely won´t like the seond customer presenting their livery first on the new state-of-the-art freighter.

User currently offlinePlaneAdmirer From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 561 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 23 hours ago) and read 5921 times:

Because of engine commonality with the 787 will there be any benefits from testing both aircraft at the same time that will speed the process along?

Thank you.


User currently offline747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 2102 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 19 hours ago) and read 5774 times:

Quoting PlaneAdmirer (Reply 2):
Because of engine commonality with the 787 will there be any benefits from testing both aircraft at the same time that will speed the process along?

IMO it will not speed up the certification process, because both engines are not exactly the same.
The 747-8 engine shares the same 10-stage compressor, single-annular combustor and two-stage high-pressure turbine - the three elements of the engine core - with the GEnx-1B. Notably, the fan diameter for the GEnx-2B is narrowed from 2.81m (111in) to 2.66m, allowing one fewer stage in the booster and low-pressure turbine. Also the 787 engine is bleedless, the GEnx-2B is more conventional, with normal bleed extraction.

The GEnx-2B engine, installed on the 747-8 aircraft, is at the present moment the certification leader. Any possible engine related problems will pop up first on the 747-8.

The GEnx-1B engine variant, as installed on the 5th and 6th 787 test airframe, is the secondary engine on the 787. Basic aircraft certification is done with the RR Trent engines. There after the engine/aircraft combination is tested and certified for the GEnx/787 combination.

The only gain I can see is that an engine problem (in the engine core) pops up first at the 747-8 and can be corrected, before it shows on the 787. (or the other way around).

[Edited 2010-02-21 10:02:30]


Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
User currently offlinemadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 18 hours ago) and read 5686 times:

Quoting 747classic (Reply 3):
The GEnx-2B engine, installed on the 747-8 aircraft, is at the present moment the certification leader. Any possible engine related problems will pop up first on the 747-8.

What difference is there between these engines types and those used on the A380 testing machine F-WWDD? Are they the exact same engines or else what is the difference between them?

I am most curious to know if the two aircrafts will be running on the same GEnx engine types.

[Edited 2010-02-21 11:37:11]


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 968 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 17 hours ago) and read 5657 times:

Quoting madameConcorde (Reply 4):
What difference is there between these engines types and those used on the A380 testing machine F-WWDD? Are they the exact same engines or else what is the difference between them?

I am most curious to know if the two aircrafts will be running on the same GEnx engine types.

You are thinking of the Engine Alliance GP7200. It is a 50/50 joint venture between Pratt & Whitney and GE. It is a totally different engine from the GEnx.

The 747-8 is powered by the GEnx-2B which is a variant of the GEnx-1B that will power the 787. The -2B features a smaller fan than the -1B and has bleed-air systems enabled.


User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5744 posts, RR: 47
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 17 hours ago) and read 5634 times:

I'm hearing that after ZA004 (787-8) takes off tomorrow, it'll be followed by RC501 (747-8F) and together the two will have an inflight photoshoot. Rumor right now but sounds legit.


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineMCIGuy From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1936 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 17 hours ago) and read 5618 times:

Quoting madameConcorde (Reply 4):
What difference is there between these engines types and those used on the A380 testing machine F-WWDD? Are they the exact same engines or else what is the difference between them?

I am most curious to know if the two aircrafts will be running on the same GEnx engine types.

There's been speculation that a variant of GEnx and/or Trent XWB might, at some future date, might be offered on the A380 but it is not currenty the case. As noted above, those engines are bleedless whereas the A380's engines use conventional bleed air extraction.  



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User currently offlinemadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 17 hours ago) and read 5603 times:

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 7):
As noted above, those engines are bleedless whereas the A380's engines use conventional bleed air extraction.

Thank you very much for your answers.
What are "bleeds"?

I know engine blades - i have a collection of Concorde Olympus 593 engine blades - ... but bleeds?

What are they and what is their use?

 



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offline747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 2102 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 17 hours ago) and read 5538 times:

Quoting madameConcorde (Reply 8):
What are "bleeds"?

Essentially a bleed is a hole in the engine to extract (high and/or low pressure) air for the pneumatic system.
The pneumatic system is used on aircraft to start the engines, feed the airconditioning system, feed the air driven hydraulic pumps, etc.
The 747-8 and A388 need een traditional engine with bleed air extraction.
The 787 is an aircraft WITHOUT a pneumatic system. Above mentioned systems are on the 787 mostly powered by electric actuators or motors.
So the 787 needs bleedless engines, optimised to deliver no bleed air.
.

[Edited 2010-02-21 12:45:10]


Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30849 posts, RR: 86
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 17 hours ago) and read 5538 times:
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Quoting madameConcorde (Reply 8):
What are "bleeds"?

It's air ducted off the engine to power pneumatic systems.

The 787 has replaced those pneumatic systems with electrical ones. The rationale is that electrical systems weigh less than pneumatic and requires less maintenance over their lifetime.


User currently offlinemadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 17 hours ago) and read 5520 times:

Thank you very much for answering my question about bleeds.   


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinePlaneAdmirer From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 561 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 6 months 10 hours ago) and read 5305 times:

Thanks for the answers.

User currently offlineWestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2134 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (4 years 6 months 10 hours ago) and read 5281 times:

As Drewski observed in the other thread, a flight plan for BOE501 PAE->MWH has been filed for dep. Mon 07:10 PST.


The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
User currently offline747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 2102 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 6 hours ago) and read 5159 times:

Quoting WestWing (Reply 13):
As Drewski observed in the other thread, a flight plan for BOE501 PAE->MWH has been filed for dep. Mon 07:10 PST.

RC501 was first delayed from Saturday till Sunday, then from Sunday till Monday.
Would the cause be the diversion on Friday of 787 ZA001 to MWH due uncommanded power loss of one of the Trent 1000 engines ?
The MWH 747-8 ground crew assisting the 787?

see : http://boeingblogs.com/randy/archives/2010/02/za001_status.html

[Edited 2010-02-21 23:16:51]

[Edited 2010-02-21 23:18:05]


Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9768 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 1 hour ago) and read 4338 times:

What's the status on the cockpit systems on the 747-8 and 787 being "hacker"-prove? Also when will CV receive their first 747-8 and on which routes will it be flown first? South America?

A388


User currently offline747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 2102 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months ago) and read 3997 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 15):
What's the status on the cockpit systems on the 747-8 and 787 being "hacker"-prove?

Tests on Both the 787 and 747-8 will also address additional FAA special conditions concerning protection against cyber-attack, specifically electronic system security protection for the aircraft's control systems as well as for the airline "information domain".
On the 747-8F all above will be tested on the third test airframe.

see also : http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...s-on-747-8-to-prevent-hacking.html

and for the "FAA Special Conditions" : http://cryptome.org/0001/faa011510.htm



Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9768 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (4 years 6 months ago) and read 3915 times:

Quoting 747classic (Reply 16):
Tests on Both the 787 and 747-8 will also address additional FAA special conditions concerning protection against cyber-attack, specifically electronic system security protection for the aircraft's control systems as well as for the airline "information domain".
On the 747-8F all above will be tested on the third test airframe.

see also : http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...s-on-747-8-to-prevent-hacking.html

and for the "FAA Special Conditions" : http://cryptome.org/0001/faa011510.htm

Thanks for the reply 747classic. I'm aware of those links but am only wondering if there is any progress as I can imagine that this might also delay the certification. I take it that this new aircraft needing to be hacker prove is something that all aircraft manufacturers must oblige to with new generation aircraft types. This would also include Airbus/Embraer/Bombardier/MRJ and all Russian aircraft manufacturers, is that correct?

A388


User currently offlineWestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2134 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3476 times:

The flight plan for BOE501 (orig. sch. 07:10 PST) seems to have timed out and no updated plan has yet been filed.

Interestingly two other planned 777 first flights - the second Southern Air/Thai Cargo 77F and (I think) the Asiana 77E are also past their filed departure times and no plan has yet been filed for the rumored first flight of the third 787 (ZA004).



The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
User currently offline747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 2102 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3338 times:

It seems that RC501 is waiting for ZA004 (fourth 787 test aircraft. They are both in the new "Boeing light" livery and were scheduled for an in flight photo session.

see : http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fl...ebruary-22---the-week-ahead-o.html

[Edited 2010-02-22 13:48:59]


Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3304 times:

Please use the already existing thread on this:

Official 747-8 First Flight Thread - Part 2 (by moderators Feb 19 2010 in Civil Aviation)


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