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DL And NW Crew Operations  
User currently offlinespeedbird0125 From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 184 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 10 months 10 hours ago) and read 5019 times:

I heard that DL and NW totally finished merging process, and they fly under one certificate.
What about crew operations? Do DL crews still fly with only DL metals, and NW crews fly with only NW metals?
Or do they fly with both fleets now? (i.e. DL crews takes 744 and NW crews takes 767??)

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDalb777 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2192 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 10 hours ago) and read 4937 times:

Quoting speedbird0125 (Thread starter):
Or do they fly with both fleets now? (i.e. DL crews takes 744 and NW crews takes 767??)

There was a thread a week ago about DL 767s going on difference training missions around DTW (that is, training NW 757 pilots on DL 763s).

DL 767 Flies DTW-TOL-DTW Ideas? (by pmk Feb 11 2010 in Civil Aviation)



Geaux Tigers! Geaux Hornets! Geaux Saints! WHO DAT!!!
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3217 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4596 times:

[Relatively] short and sweet answer...

NW and DL FA's can work any aircraft type now, they just cannot work together. For instance, NW FA crews will work the DTW-PVG, DTW-ICN, and DTW-HKG flights on the 777 as well as the DTW-FRA and DTW-LHR on the 767's. Conversely, DL FA crews will work JFK-TLV on 744; JFK-FCO, ATL-LGW, ATL-AMS, and ATL-FCO on A330, etc.

Until the union issue is resolved to one way or another, NW and DL FA crews will work independently though on any aircraft type.

Pilots, now, can be completely intermixed. The only planes that will not are 747-400, 777, and 787, as they were fenced during the arbitration, known as the Bloch Award. The 16x existing 747-400's and 18x 787's on firm order are to be flown by 100% NW crews while the 16x existing 777's are to be flown by 100% DL crews.

The 757/767 bases did see significant cross-bidding by NW/DL crews, a lot of NW guys bidding to the LAX base and a lot of DL guys bidding to MSP and DTW.

As for other types, given the base swaps there will be a lot of mixed crews. The new MD90 base in MSP saw some of the SLC crews bid to MSP while a lot of MSP DC9 crews bid up to MD90. On the flip-side, some MSP A320 crews bid to SLC while a lot of MD90 guys bid the new A320 base in SLC.

So before long, there will be a LOT of mixed cockpit crews at DL on the domestic fleets. The 757/767 will see the most hybrid crews, of course, as it was the only common fleet type between the two airlines. The A330 and the 767-400, while open bidding, saw very little cross-fleet bids between NW and DL. Then as I said earlier, the 744, 777, and 787 are disallowed from crossfleet bids, allowed only to NW crews and DL crews, respectively.


User currently offlineMPDPilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1005 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4344 times:

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 2):

So, I have a question. How does the training fit into this? Aren't there some issues with time required to train the pilots switching from say MD-90 to A320? So how would scheduling handle that? Would crews have to dead head temporarily until the pilots can be brougt up to speed so to speak? Or is there just not THAT much cross bidding going on?

Thanks



One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3217 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4262 times:

Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 3):
How does the training fit into this?

Happening currently and ongoing.

Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 3):
Aren't there some issues with time required to train the pilots switching from say MD-90 to A320?

Absolutely. They've already started all the training processes for the MSP A320 / SLC MD90 base swap, as well as all other crossfleet bidding.

Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 3):
So how would scheduling handle that?

By delaying implementation. The SLC A320 / MSP MD90 schedules don't take effect until late spring to early summer. Until then, the crews will be trained on the new types and will be ready to go when the schedules take effect.

Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 3):
Would crews have to dead head temporarily until the pilots can be brougt up to speed so to speak?

Maybe a few, but none significant. The crews will be ready and in place for all schedule swaps, including the significant MS/SLC swap.

Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 3):
Or is there just not THAT much cross bidding going on?

There is a LOT, especially on the narrowbody side. Widebodies not so much, as the 744 and 777 are fenced. 764 and A330 saw a few cross-fleet bids but not many. As for 757/767, all NW crews have been or will be trained on all DL equipment and all DL crews have been or will be trained on all NW equipment.


User currently offlinem11stephen From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4231 times:

Have NW F/As been trained on all DL aircraft? And have DL F/As been trained on all ex-NW aircraft?


My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
User currently offlineWeAreUnited From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 423 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4153 times:

Thanks for the info, Transpac!

[/quote]

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 2):
NW and DL FA's can work any aircraft type now, they just cannot work together. For instance, NW FA crews will work the DTW-PVG, DTW-ICN, and DTW-HKG flights on the 777 as well as the DTW-FRA and DTW-LHR on the 767's. Conversely, DL FA crews will work JFK-TLV on 744; JFK-FCO, ATL-LGW, ATL-AMS, and ATL-FCO on A330, etc.

Are pre-merger NW FA's able to bid into SLC or ATL and vice-versa for DL FA's bidding into DTW or MEM? What happens to cities where both airlines had domiciles (NYC, LAX, BOS (?))? Are they just keeping bid packets separate for each airline until the union deal gets worked out? If this is the case, it seems as if the NW FA crews are getting the shaft a bit in NY not being able to work the widebodies across the Atlantic.

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 2):
Then as I said earlier, the 744, 777, and 787 are disallowed from crossfleet bids, allowed only to NW crews and DL crews, respectively.

When does this expire?


User currently offlineWNCrew From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1485 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4132 times:

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 5):
Have NW F/As been trained on all DL aircraft? And have DL F/As been trained on all ex-NW aircraft?

Yes they have. ALL FA's are qualified on ALL AC types, they just don't work in mixed crews (DL/NW) so even though DL didn't previously fly the 744, DL FA's may now work onboard, but the whole crew is DL, no NW mixed in.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlinem11stephen From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4073 times:

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 7):
Yes they have. ALL FA's are qualified on ALL AC types, they just don't work in mixed crews (DL/NW) so even though DL didn't previously fly the 744, DL FA's may now work onboard, but the whole crew is DL, no NW mixed in.

Thanks for the info!!! Once all the union issues get settled it will be easy for NW and DL F/As to start working together.  



My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3217 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4029 times:

Quoting WeAreUnited (Reply 6):
Are pre-merger NW FA's able to bid into SLC or ATL and vice-versa for DL FA's bidding into DTW or MEM?

Not yet. Because of the union issue, all bases will still be kept separate. For those combined bases, such as LAX, the FA's will typically work their "legacy" routes. For instance the DL LAX crews will work the LAX-SYD while the NW LAX crews will work the LAX-NRT. Same as in NYC, the DL NYC crews will work the bulk of the TATL flights as well as the JFK-TLV on 744 while the NW NYC crews will work JFK-NRT on the 744 and EWR-AMS on the 763.

Quoting WeAreUnited (Reply 6):
What happens to cities where both airlines had domiciles (NYC, LAX, BOS (?))

See above.

Quoting WeAreUnited (Reply 6):
Are they just keeping bid packets separate for each airline until the union deal gets worked out? If this is the case, it seems as if the NW FA crews are getting the shaft a bit in NY not being able to work the widebodies across the Atlantic.

Not really, as the FA's will still just work all the same flights they would have otherwise.

Quoting WeAreUnited (Reply 6):
When does this expire?

01 January 2015


User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4064 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3660 times:
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This is a little confusing. As an example, are they seeing NW LAX based crews bidding for LAX-JFK-LAX trips or are DL crews going to stay on these segments?

User currently offlineDavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3557 times:

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 2):
Until the union issue is resolved to one way or another, NW and DL FA crews will work independently though on any aircraft type.
Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 2):
The 16x existing 747-400's and 18x 787's on firm order are to be flown by 100% NW crews while the 16x existing 777's are to be flown by 100% DL crews.

Isn't there a time line on this? I thought it was like 5 yrs after SOC. Or does it depend on the next round of labor discussions?

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlinetimf From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 971 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3471 times:
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The FA integration is just waiting on a union representation vote from the combined group. They had filed for this last fall, however with the proposed change to union voting requiring only a majority of actual voters instead of a majority of eligible voters, they retracted their filing and are waiting for that to be resolved first.

The pilot fencing lasts until 5 years after SOC, which is the January 1, 2015 date noted above.


User currently offlineDLDTW1962 From United States of America, joined May 2009, 393 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3460 times:

I get it. So you will not see any FA's from NW or DL working together on one aircraft. The FA's will be all DL or NW.
But, the flight deck crew can be a mix of NW and DL on one aircraft? I'm I right on this?

Chuck


User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3217 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3364 times:

Quoting laca773 (Reply 10):
This is a little confusing. As an example, are they seeing NW LAX based crews bidding for LAX-JFK-LAX trips or are DL crews going to stay on these segments?

No, at least nothing like that yet.

All the bid packets, so far, have the respective crews flying all their respective legacy routes. At the combined bases like LAX, the NW crews will work MSP, DTW, MEM, LAX, and HNL on the 753. The DL crews will work SYD, ATL, CVG, JFK, SLC, and the other Hawaii flights.

Same for NYC. The NW crews will work all the domestic flights they had pre-merger, as well as JFK-NRT and EWR-AMS. The DL crews will work their respective pre-merger domestic flights, as well as almost all TATL flights out of JFK.

Quoting Davescj (Reply 11):
Isn't there a time line on this? I thought it was like 5 yrs after SOC. Or does it depend on the next round of labor discussions?

Yes. See my reply 9.

01 January 2015

Quoting DLDTW1962 (Reply 13):
I get it. So you will not see any FA's from NW or DL working together on one aircraft. The FA's will be all DL or NW.
But, the flight deck crew can be a mix of NW and DL on one aircraft? I'm I right on this?

        


User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4064 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3224 times:
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Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 14):
No, at least nothing like that yet.

All the bid packets, so far, have the respective crews flying all their respective legacy routes. At the combined bases like LAX, the NW crews will work MSP, DTW, MEM, LAX, and HNL on the 753. The DL crews will work SYD, ATL, CVG, JFK, SLC, and the other Hawaii flights.

Same for NYC. The NW crews will work all the domestic flights they had pre-merger, as well as JFK-NRT and EWR-AMS. The DL crews will work their respective pre-merger domestic flights, as well as almost all TATL flights out of JFK.

Thanks for the information, Transpac787. I apreciate it.


User currently offlineCokePopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1190 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3183 times:

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 2):
NW and DL FA's can work any aircraft type now

No true. May 1st is the first day. Training is still on going.

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 5):
Have NW F/As been trained on all DL aircraft? And have DL F/As been trained on all ex-NW aircraft?

See above. They hope to have all F/A's trained by the end of March
Spill over in Apr and May 1st we will see each group flying different a/c.
just not together.


User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4973 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3159 times:
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Quoting CokePopper (Reply 16):
Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 2):
NW and DL FA's can work any aircraft type now

No true. May 1st is the first day. Training is still on going.

One of the biggest ironies is that there are still PMDL FAs who are not qualified on ALL PMDL aircraft, but will be qualified on ALL PMNW aircraft! For example, there are still some NYC FAs who are not qualified on the 777 since DL pre-merger did not require that all their FAs be trained on all types....


User currently offlinedeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3156 times:

Quoting WeAreUnited (Reply 6):


Are pre-merger NW FA's able to bid into SLC or ATL and vice-versa for DL FA's bidding into DTW or MEM? What happens to cities where both airlines had domiciles (NYC, LAX, BOS (?))? Are they just keeping bid packets separate for each airline until the union deal gets worked out? If this is the case, it seems as if the NW FA crews are getting the shaft a bit in NY not being able to work the widebodies across the Atlantic.

No base swaps yet.

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 14):
All the bid packets, so far, have the respective crews flying all their respective legacy routes. At the combined bases like LAX, the NW crews will work MSP, DTW, MEM, LAX, and HNL on the 753. The DL crews will work SYD, ATL, CVG, JFK, SLC, and the other Hawaii flights.

Right, DAL-S FAs will work most of the pre-merger Delta network, same goes for the DAL-N FAs.
Now here is my question(I haven't looked at the bid packets...) with LAX-HNL going 2x 753 1x 763, replacing 1x 752, 1x 753 1x 763 who will get that 2nd 753? DAL-S or DAL-N?



yep.
User currently offlineCokePopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1190 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3053 times:

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 14):
Same for NYC. The NW crews will work all the domestic flights they had pre-merger, as well as JFK-NRT and EWR-AMS. The DL crews will work their respective pre-merger domestic flights, as well as almost all TATL flights out of JFK

Again not true. Where are you getting your info?
PMDL crews have, and will continue to, work JFK-NRT and EWR-AMS.


User currently offlinedeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2949 times:

Quoting panamair (Reply 17):
One of the biggest ironies is that there are still PMDL FAs who are not qualified on ALL PMDL aircraft, but will be qualified on ALL PMNW aircraft! For example, there are still some NYC FAs who are not qualified on the 777 since DL pre-merger did not require that all their FAs be trained on all types....

I thought i saw somewhere that they had all been trained on the 777 now but i could be wrong. I do remember when you didn't have to do the 777 because there were so few in the fleet.



yep.
User currently offlineCokePopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1190 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2856 times:

Quoting deltaL1011man (Reply 20):

Panamair is correct. Many PMDL f/a's are not trained on the 777
This training (777) was/is optional on the PMDL side and
is done on your own time.


User currently offlinenwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3403 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2641 times:

Quoting CokePopper (Reply 21):
This training (777) was/is optional on the PMDL side and
is done on your own time.

Just out of curiosity, how long does 777 training take?

Also, make sure to tell your PMDL colleagues just how fun layovers in FAR, CID, and MOT can be.  



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineCokePopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1190 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2538 times:

Quoting nwaesc (Reply 22):


Just out of curiosity, how long does 777 training take?

not quite a whole day. You can fly in and out the same day for it.


User currently offlineNWADTWFA From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 162 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2404 times:

Quoting CokePopper (Reply 19):
Again not true. Where are you getting your info?
PMDL crews have, and will continue to, work JFK-NRT and EWR-AMS.

If I may ask, where have you seen this published (that PMDL will staff JFK-NRT)? Only thing that I have seen is that bases will remain balanced for flying and that they will communicate with us in the future regarding staffing by base.

Maybe I missed something.

Cheers,

NWADTWFA


25 CokePopper : Do you mean to say PMDL will CONTINUE to staff JFK-NRT right? We are being told the same thing. Expect to keep JFK-NRT, JFK-TLV. No changes/remained
26 Post contains images Transpac787 : Are you kidding?? lol All the NW Japanese speakers are NRT-based
27 CokePopper : Meant to say NY based PMNW. BTW Transpac787, where have you been getting your info? You need a new source.
28 Transpac787 : The base is irrelevant. They are all NRT-based crews and fly their trips NRT-DTW-NRT, as opposed to DTW-NRT-DTW
29 CokePopper : I am confused as to why you are bringing up DTW now? We were talking about the JFK-NRT trip and who will staff it. The only choice is PMDL who has be
30 NWA757boy : Believe me there are enough speakers for JFK-NRT in the NYC base. There was a conference call on the subject of "legacy routes" being operated by thei
31 CokePopper : Thanks for answering about the JP speakers on the PMNW side in NY. I wans't sure how many remained in NY since NW stopped the route several years ago.
32 deltaL1011man : When has DL run JFK-NRT before? I though UA got JFK-NRT from PA. Only NRT routes that i remember DL running was ATL,LAX and PDX-NRT.
33 CokePopper : We ran the flight with a MD-11 and stopped the flight right after 9/11
34 Transpac787 : Because, as far as I know, NRT-based crew cannot yet operate DL aircraft. That's why the GUM 763 flights have all DL FA's and no foreign-based FA's o
35 Transpac787 : And actually to correct myself.... either NRT-GUM or NRT-PEK on the 763 will be going over to PMNW crews as the PMNW base in SFO will staff the SFO-NR
36 MPDPilot : Thanks for the clarification.
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