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A New Frontier: F9 To PHF! Hampton Roads - Denver  
User currently offlineStarAlliance38 From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1445 posts, RR: 3
Posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6589 times:

On February 4, Frontier Airlines announced new service to Newport News/Wiliamsburg International Airport, beginning May 3 using the Embraer 190. The service will be upgraded to a bigger aircraft, the Airbus 318, on June 4. This will be the first direct link between the Hampton Roads region and Denver. Also, this will be F9's first presence in the RIC/PHF/ORF region.

Frontier will operate in PHF's newly constructed terminal alongside with AirTran.

Any thoughts and comments? Personally, I love this! Great airline coming to a great airport!

PR:

http://www.nnwairport.com/index.php?...and-denver&catid=41:2010&Itemid=68


Roar, lion, roar
45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6578 times:

This is already being discussed in the "The New Frontier/Midwest" threads......


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5582 posts, RR: 29
Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6549 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 1):
This is already being discussed in the "The New Frontier/Midwest" threads......

True, but aren't you jealous that he has been able to remain completely out of that thread-o'-drama?  

-Dvae



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25292 posts, RR: 85
Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6507 times:
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Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 2):
True, but aren't you jealous that he has been able to remain completely out of that thread-o'-drama?

LOL. Ain't that the truth. That's I used the frog to start the new thread - I was bug-eyed at what had happened.

Quoting StarAlliance38 (Thread starter):
Any thoughts and comments? Personally, I love this! Great airline coming to a great airport!

I agree with you, I have all my fingers and toes crossed for this one.

The service was originally to be E190 for the first month, going to A318 for the summer. It has for been upgraded to A318 for the first month, going to the bigger A319 for the summer.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5439 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6490 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 2):
True, but aren't you jealous that he has been able to remain completely out of that thread-o'-drama?

   The subject probably does deserve a somewhat lower key and more rational discussion than on those other threads! (But there is some good background info on PHF there.)

All that being said, regarding F/Y/R's decision to serve that airport instead of ORF, I think a lot of people will be watching with interest as to how the experiment goes.

bb


User currently offlinevctony From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6386 times:

What other service does PHF have? I always thought that ORF was the main commercial airport there.

User currently offlineKBUF From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 546 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6365 times:

Quoting vctony (Reply 5):
What other service does PHF have?

PHF has DL to ATL, US to PHL & CLT, and FL to ATL, BOS, LGA, & MCO.



"Starting today, the Buffalo Sabres' reason for existence will be to win a Stanley Cup."-Terry Pegula, February 22, 2011
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25292 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6348 times:
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Quoting vctony (Reply 5):
What other service does PHF have?

Delta, Airtran, US Airways and now Frontier:

http://www.nnwairport.com/

Quoting vctony (Reply 5):
I always thought that ORF was the main commercial airport there.

It probably is. But it is a classic LLC model to use "other" airports - secondary airports.

ORF was actually talking to Frontier for service to DEN:

http://articles.dailypress.com/2010-...-norfolk-airport-airport-directors

Press: "Wayne Shank, executive director of Norfolk International Airport said that he congratulated Spirito upon hearing the news the airport was getting the additional line.

"Anytime you can land a new airline that's great." Shank said.

The Norfolk airport had talked with Frontier Airlines about getting service from them as well."


mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinevctony From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6296 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 7):
Delta, Airtran, US Airways and now Frontier:

Interesting that both DL and US also serve ORF.


User currently offlinePI731 From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6275 times:

I would love to see Frontier/Midwest add MDT to the list of upcoming cities. I heard rumors that Midwest (Belfour they went belly up) was looking into fighting in MDT. It would make since Harley-Davidson is headquartered in MKE and has a plant just outside of Harrisburg. Also, when MDT had the NWA daily to MSP, it did really well. So have one of the MDT-MKE dallies continue on to MSP! Then add a daily to DEN would be a great fit for another option for people flying west.

User currently offlineStarAlliance38 From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1445 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6265 times:

Quoting vctony (Reply 8):
Interesting that both DL and US also serve ORF.

Yes. DL has mainline and regional service in ORF and PHF; US has mainline in ORF and regional in both ORF and PHF. If I'm not mistaken, US Airways still offers the most seats in the Hampton Roads region (ORF and PHF combined).

Quoting mariner (Reply 7):
But it is a classic LLC model to use "other" airports - secondary airports.

In my opinion, PHF is a better airport. I love it even though it's smaller. Great runway views and ok food too. It's also one of the cheapest in the Commonwealth of Virginia. I find lower fares with PHF compared to ORF.

For locals, I live in Suffolk, so PHF is more convenient for me than ORF. Nicer staff and people there. Quicker security lines too  .

I'll take PHF over ORF any day.



Roar, lion, roar
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25292 posts, RR: 85
Reply 11, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6249 times:
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Quoting StarAlliance38 (Reply 10):
For locals, I live in Suffolk, so PHF is more convenient for me than ORF. Nicer staff and people there. Quicker security lines too  

I believe Frontier is to use the new concourse at PHF?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineStarAlliance38 From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1445 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6203 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 11):
I believe Frontier is to use the new concourse at PHF?

Yes. The new concourse will house AirTran and Frontier.



Roar, lion, roar
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25292 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6161 times:
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Quoting StarAlliance38 (Reply 12):
Yes. The new concourse will house AirTran and Frontier.

I meant to ask you this in the previous post - I believe the new concourse will have a Customs and FIS facility for international flights?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineMtnWest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2461 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6114 times:
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Quoting vctony (Reply 8):
Interesting that both DL and US also serve ORF

Back in early 200s when UA served both and printed their 1000 page schedules, they would actually list a ORF-PHF connection via IAD. Reminds me of some of the expedia routings they come up with lol.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently online1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6541 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6084 times:

Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 14):
Back in early 200s when UA served both and printed their 1000 page schedules, they would actually list a ORF-PHF connection via IAD. Reminds me of some of the expedia routings they come up with lol.

Also, I remember seeing that US had ORF-PHF service on Dash-8 turboprops.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 16, posted (4 years 7 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5944 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 2):
True, but aren't you jealous that he has been able to remain completely out of that thread-o'-drama

You got a valid point there. Ain't debating that!   By all means....discuss!  
Quoting mariner (Reply 3):
It has for been upgraded to A318 for the first month, going to the bigger A319 for the summer.

That's the first time I heard that. If that is true, that's awesome!   



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5582 posts, RR: 29
Reply 17, posted (4 years 7 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5913 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 3):
It has for been upgraded to A318 for the first month, going to the bigger A319 for the summer.
Quoting mariner (Reply 13):
I meant to ask you this in the previous post - I believe the new concourse will have a Customs and FIS facility for international flights?

Hmmm....As always, there is backstory to any decision we are presented with. Are you simply pondering the possibilities, or are the dickie birds singing again?  

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25292 posts, RR: 85
Reply 18, posted (4 years 7 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5874 times:
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Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 17):
Hmmm....As always, there is backstory to any decision we are presented with. Are you simply pondering the possibilities, or are the dickie birds singing again?

LOL - the only birds are me getting my ducks in a row.  

When this was announced, I didn't know much about PHF/Newport News. I'd been there a couple of times to get on cargo boats, but I had never spent any time there.

So I've been on a learning curve - hence my suggestion that Frontier should be making goo-goo eyes at the USAF.

It's just a process. I've been doing it with BKG as well.

That said, and in the absence of dickie birds, I do wonder what potential traffic there would be from PHF. Do the snowbirds there think of the Caribbean or Mexico - SXM or CUN? SJU or SJO?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineBuddys747 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 527 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (4 years 7 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5724 times:

Good news for PHF! I wonder if the A319 will be the better choice over the E190? It seems quite a few like the E190 better as far as comfort ?.

Now if they would ditch there PHL run and just move it to MDT!


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3154 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (4 years 7 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5644 times:

Quoting StarAlliance38 (Reply 10):
In my opinion, PHF is a better airport. I love it even though it's smaller

Going back a handful of years. Minimal traffic allowed the military to do a-lot of touch and goes at PHF. I' dont know if they still do



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3154 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (4 years 7 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5626 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 15):
I remember seeing that US had ORF-PHF service on Dash-8

I don't remember PHF-ORF service. They use to offer Dash-8 service PHF-PHL (the PH factor) several times daily. They also brought in one larger jet, once a day. I want to say the size of a 717 or E190 I think it also flew to PHL but it may have been CLT.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3154 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (4 years 7 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5590 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 18):
I do wonder what potential traffic there would be from PHF. Do the snowbirds there think of the Caribbean

Well at least through yesterday, had the E190 remained on the route I read something which lead me to believe E190 are ETOPS-120 equipped at the factory and certified by the FAA. ETOPS-120 allows the airframe to fly for 60 minutes over water from a airport capable of landing it. As prognostication where would 60 minutes from PHF or say Key West South and Eastward take us?



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineflyusairways From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 178 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (4 years 7 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5580 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 21):
I don't remember PHF-ORF service.

Actually, up until a couple of years ago ZW ran a PHL-PHF flight on Sundays (or Saturdays, I can't quite remember) that had a tag-on to ORF. You could purchase the PHF-ORF section for something like $200 one way.

At any rate, I've booked my ticket on the inaugural F9 flight! Can't wait!



All nonstop flights are direct, but not all direct flights are nonstop!
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6608 posts, RR: 24
Reply 24, posted (4 years 7 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5497 times:

One thing I noticed when looking at DOT data is how well PHF responded to stimulation by Airtran. Here's the O+D traffic in 3Q09:

ATL-PHF: 519 passengers
ATL-ORF: 159 passengers

Now, given the population distribution of the region, clearly PHF is stealing a lot of ORF's ATL bound traffic. We see a similar pattern in BOS.

BOS-PHF: 369 passengers
BOS-ORF: 169 passengers

But, if we switch to a market where ORF has the LCC nonstop (WN to MDW) and PHF doesn't, things totally flip around which is the case of CHI (MDW+ORD).

CHI-PHF: 58 passengers
CHI-ORF: 437 passengers

In the case of DEN, ORF is currently still the winner even though you have one-stop LCC service for both airports (WN via MDW and FL via ATL). I'm guessing this is also because ORF has other carrier options (UA, AA) that PHF doesn't offer.

DEN-PHF: 36
DEN-ORF: 187

So, the big question is can F9 profitably stimulate PHF the way FL has? The two things going against F9 are the distance of the flight and the poor frequency of the offering. I understand why F9 is cautious in terms of capacity, but by offering the flight only 4x a week, you offer little flexibility for business/gov't travel. It almost guarantees that most of F9's customers will be leisure travel.


25 mariner : I'm not sure why distance is a problem. If anyone wants to go to the west, it's a distance. It's quite a long distance for Southwest's ORF-LAS, too.
26 hjulicher : Snowbirds in Hampton Roads? Does it even snow there? and does it last? Snowbirds come from places like New England, PA, Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Chic
27 mariner : I lived in Alexandria, VA, for a year and it sure as heck snowed there. But not to nitpick - let's call the them WTISOWP - Winter Travelers in Search
28 SANFan : One thing I wanted to mention regarding military air traffic is that we must factor in which carrier has the govt contract. I've been thru that when
29 mariner : There are other considerations, of course. One of the largest employers at Newport News is Northrop Grumman - one of the world's biggest shipyards. N
30 GentFromAlaska : The city pairs program being a "contract" there were three reasons which allowed government travelers to sidestep the contract. Only one of three nee
31 FlyPNS1 : I'm sure there is some contact between them, but with F9's low-frequency service I doubt most will use F9. Given the low frequency that F9 is offerin
32 mariner : That may be true, but I can think of several examples where is has worked darn well - especially on leisure routes. Frontier's DEN-SJO (very long dis
33 Post contains links GentFromAlaska : For those who may want to know the GSA city do's and don'ts are discussed in the Federal Travel Regulation Part 301-10.107 http://www.gsa.gov/Portal/
34 staralliance38 : I don't remember a US mainline coming into PHF in the last couple years or so. US ops in PHF are all CRJs adn Dash-8s. Back in the day though, US sen
35 mariner : LOL. I've already abandoned the word "snowbirds" and replaced it with: But the question remains - in the cold winter weather where do the good people
36 discoverCSG : Virginia is a geographically diverse state. Alexandria and other parts of NOVA are basically the southern end of the northeast corridor, where multip
37 flyusairways : BTS records indicate that US mainline left PHF in 1995. ValuJet began service to PHF around that time and probably had something to do with US' retre
38 doug_Or : Piedmont (USX Dash-8s) and now Air Wisconsin (USX CR2s) had/have MX and crew bases in ORF, so the PHF-ORF sector was probably more for crew and a/c re
39 vatveng : These flights come and go, and are continuations of inbound flights from PHL and CLT.
40 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : This sounds like the next fare sale idea for Spirit. -Dave
41 Post contains images enilria : This must be the most well-attended duplicate thread I've ever seen. Are we going to have a DEN-SBA thread too?
42 FlyASAGuy2005 : Not much traffic at PHF now-a-days as far as the military goes. NGU is usually pretty quiet save the new helicopter port they just built on the south
43 DeltaRules : Are they looking to expand to any other cities the F9 or YX brands don't serve yet?
44 AirframeAS : 10 cities in 2010 is a bit much for a size of our new company. If we expanded more, IMO, I don't know where we are going to get the aircraft to do al
45 mariner : For the summer? I doubt it. I wouldn't be surprised if there is another announcement or two (or three?) but I would be surprised if there are too man
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