777KLM From China, joined Apr 2005, 481 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 26437 times:
Even with low visabilty the pilots must be able to take off from the correct runway... but what was the weather like at the moment of the incident (not "accident")?
Strangely enough something similair happened only two weeks ago to a KLM 737 here in AMS.
LAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5085 posts, RR: 48 Reply 2, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 26434 times:
Would it make sense to color the concrete on runways to differentiate it from taxiway?
Hmm surely the signs and ground markings should be enough for a pilot to realise where he is at. I find it rather disturbing that the color of the runway and taxiway being the same could be used as an excuse lol. Funny I can't read Norwegian but the picture is of an Aeroflot Cargo DC10.
LAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5085 posts, RR: 48 Reply 6, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 26278 times:
Quoting Giancavia (Reply 3): I find it rather disturbing that the color of the runway and taxiway being the same could be used as an excuse lol.
If runways were bright green and taxiways were bright red, it is likely to reduce these type of incidents. The SQ flight at Taipei would have avoided the accident if some concrete barrier was placed at the begining of the closed runway.
pnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2045 posts, RR: 12 Reply 7, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 26211 times:
If a pilot needs specially colour paved taxiways to prevent them from taking off, I don't think I want to be on that plane! Was ATC not paying attention? Does OSL not have ground radar?
I understand the point you are making however I stand by my opinion that if the pilot requires bright contrasting colors to be sure of where he is .. it isnt really a plane I want to be flying on.
LAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5085 posts, RR: 48 Reply 9, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 26035 times:
Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 7): If a pilot needs specially colour paved taxiways to prevent them from taking off, I don't think I want to be on that plane! Was ATC not paying attention? Does OSL not have ground radar?
You are making my point. Errors do happen, and coloring runways will reduce errors--and perhaps eliminate them.
Aaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 7619 posts, RR: 28 Reply 10, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 26004 times:
This kind of error is just mind-boggling - how does one not see that there are no touchdown zone marks, no piano keys, and no big white *numbers*?? (yellow as the case may be in OSL).
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
kaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 11948 posts, RR: 37 Reply 12, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 25515 times:
Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 10): This kind of error is just mind-boggling - how does one not see that there are no touchdown zone marks, no piano keys, and no big white *numbers*?? (yellow as the case may be in OSL).
That's all very well, but what was visibility like? If it was snowing at the time and they weren't that familiar with the airport, then it may be easier to understand. The one big difference here, compared with the KLM 737 at AMS, is that the taxiway on which they departed could have been used by an aircraft taxying back after landing (do they use one runway for landing and the other for takeoff?). I don't think 36C is used for landings - at least not that often?
Of course, it has to be said that SU pilots are (should be) well used to operating in snow.
oly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6177 posts, RR: 11 Reply 15, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 25192 times:
The overhead view shows 2 parallel taxiways and presumably they came down the eastern one and turned straight onto the western one.
I still can't see how one was mistaken for the other unless the crew were distracted or just in a hurry.
Does the report in the link actually say who noticed this? If it wasn't ATC was it someone on the ground or another aircraft?
And from acars it was probably AFL212 SVO-OSL-SVO, VP-BWM, and flightstats has the flight leaving 22mins late from OSL.
Man City p3 w3 d0 l0 f4 a0 P9 - hey it may never happen again!
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21448 posts, RR: 24 Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 24042 times:
Quoting oly720man (Reply 15): The overhead view shows 2 parallel taxiways and presumably they came down the eastern one and turned straight onto the western one.I
MHO From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 209 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 23179 times:
Well, the markings are different colors (at least here in the US) - taxiway lines are yellow, runway lines are wider, and white. Entry to a runway is clearly indicated by white on red signs, taxiways by yellow on black;
runways are numbered, taxiways are lettered. Adding one more scheme won't help at this point, I don't think, Fortunately this is a rare enough event.
Someone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 2778 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 22971 times:
Quoting oly720man (Reply 15):
The overhead view shows 2 parallel taxiways and presumably they came down the eastern one and turned straight onto the western one.
Yes, it was the western one, taxiway M that he took off from. A plane from Pegasus tried the same a few years back but the error was discovered before the plane took off
LAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5085 posts, RR: 48 Reply 19, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 22904 times:
Quoting MHO (Reply 17): Well, the markings are different colors (at least here in the US) - taxiway lines are yellow, runway lines are wider, and white. Entry to a runway is clearly indicated by white on red signs, taxiways by yellow on black;
runways are numbered, taxiways are lettered. Adding one more scheme won't help at this point, I don't think, Fortunately this is a rare enough event.
Thanks for clarifying. It does seem that there is a good scheme in place to avoid confusion.
ManchesterMAN From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 1192 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 21263 times:
Quoting MHO (Reply 17): Well, the markings are different colors (at least here in the US) - taxiway lines are yellow, runway lines are wider, and white. Entry to a runway is clearly indicated by white on red signs, taxiways by yellow on black;
IIRC, in OSL runway lines are in yellow (presumably something to do with snow being white). Perhaps this was somehow confusing for pilot??
Oshkosh1 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 95 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 19059 times:
I suppose you could paint the runways international orange...the taxiways green etc...but at what point do you just start getting too carried away? Obviously a mistake was made, it is not a rampant problem and does not require anything above and beyond the individual being reprimanded.
25 hugoandres1984: hey somebody has the metar of the station ? you always need to have the airport diagram chart. If you dont know or you are kind of lost why dont ask f
26 AA61Hvy: Anyone know the width of the rwy vs the taxi way? One would think either the pilot or co-pilot could see the difference?
27 KaiGywer: One would also think two professional pilots should be able to read signs...apparently not the case..
28 rwessel: It looks like M is about two-thirds the length of 1L/19R, so in the ballpark of 8000ft, which ought to be more than enough for an A320 for a 700ft ai
29 stevenlee505: I've watched videos 77W/A340 takeoff vids and there's a computer telling you 'on runway XX' when you're turning onto the runway and lining yourself up
31 Someone83: It's more than long enough for a A320 Correct. All the runways in Norway are painted yellow due to snow in the winter
32 Byrdluvs747: Im wondering if there is an electronic solution to this problem. Maybe something embeded in the concrete of runways/taxiways that tells a pilot if its
33 Giancavia: I Dont think the length was the biggest problem, what if an aircraft who was follwing the correct directions taxi'd out into the path of the A320 depa
34 Navigator: This would make them very slippery...
35 SASDC8: Totally agree with you here. The lengt/width of the taxiway is not the biggest problem here. Another plane or truck (snowmoving equipment uses this t
36 giopan1975: Has anyone questioned the crew for vodka consumption before flight?
37 USAir330: I'm not a real world pilot but I've never done that in flight sim. This is something that really needs to be taken seriously by all airportst and air
38 Mortyman: This was my first thought too. However such issues are usually stopped before the crew even gets near the plane. If not then, atleast some passengers
39 KiwiRob: Next time my boss asks why I don't fly Aeroflot to Russia I'll send him the link to this article. Crazy, I fly through OSL a couple of times a month,
40 Daysleeper: As some have already mentioned, this happened at AMS the other week, being new around here im persuming its just a co-incidence that its happened twic
41 YYZALA: This is a serious event. Not only could an airport vehicle entered the "active" taxiway but also the length of the taxiway matters. For all you know,
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