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Why Is Wet Lease Called "wet"  
User currently offlinespiPLANE From UK - England, joined Jan 2005, 126 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 14872 times:
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I know what a wet lease is, but have been wondering for a while where the term comes from.

Could not find the answer, so why not try the most educated forum worldwide?

Thanks, Paul


A380 fan
23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29680 posts, RR: 84
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 14879 times:
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As I understand it, a "wet lease" includes the aircraft and a flight crew. It might also include maintenance, spares and such from the leasing airline. Essentially the leasing airline operates the airplane for you, just under your Operating Certificate.

A "dry lease" I believe is just the airframe and engines. The airline leasing the plane provides everything else necessary to operate it.


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 14847 times:

See: http://www.globalplanesearch.com/vie.../aircraft/aircraft-leasing-def.htm

Generally:

Dry = Aircraft only

Wet = Aircraft, Crew, Maintenance, Insurance



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlineCokePopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1167 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 14824 times:

Could it mean the "paint isn't dry yet" ?

User currently offlinespiPLANE From UK - England, joined Jan 2005, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 14773 times:
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Thanks for response, but just to make sure, I know what it is. But why the terms "wet" or "dry"?


A380 fan
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 14732 times:

The terms originated in ocean shipping. A dry lease, also called a "bareboat charter", was the ship only, with dry fuel tanks. A wet lease included wet components, such as crew and initial bunkers of oil.


Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlineSTEELHEAD From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 14732 times:

May be because "wet" is including the fuel ?

User currently offlinec152driver From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 14734 times:

When you "wet" lease a GA aircraft, that means it includes the fuel (fuel being wet). In commercial ops, I think the term has simply been extended to include everything you need to operate the aircraft.

User currently offlinespiPLANE From UK - England, joined Jan 2005, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 14611 times:
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Thanks MasseyBrown, the best explanation (and the first ..) I have seen so far. Other options?


A380 fan
User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3698 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 14463 times:
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Quoting spiPLANE (Reply 9):
Other options?

I can't vouch for the maritime term itself, but I do believe that first wet leases were indeed equivalent to what could otherwise be called a long-term full charter contract.

Over time, the terminology evolved as different forms and lengths of leases appeared, to give us wet, dry, damp, managed, etc...

Eventually, the tanks of wet lease aircraft became "dry" as lessors didn't want to assume the risk of fluctuating oil prices anymore.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineSTEELHEAD From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 14327 times:

We were talking about the origin of the "wet" term (inclusive fuel) - I think we all know, this has changed in the meantime.

User currently offlinespiPLANE From UK - England, joined Jan 2005, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 14135 times:
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Is this all we can come up with? This seems to be one of the most obvious questions ever posted, there must be a definete answer out there! (or have we seen it already) ...


A380 fan
User currently offlineIAirAllie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 13957 times:

Quoting spiPLANE (Reply 12):
Is this all we can come up with? This seems to be one of the most obvious questions ever posted, there must be a definete answer out there! (or have we seen it already) ...

Masseybrown gave you your answer about the terms origination. What more are you looking for?


User currently offlinePacNWJet From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 919 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 13930 times:

Quoting spiPLANE (Reply 12):
Is this all we can come up with? This seems to be one of the most obvious questions ever posted, there must be a definete answer out there! (or have we seen it already) ...

Well, I spent some time searching the Internet and it seems like the consensus is that the "wet" aspect comes from the inclusion of fuel (which typically is wet) in the lease. No website I found gives any other derivation than this.


User currently offlineCVG747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 18 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 12365 times:

In general aviation, it means it includes fuel

User currently offlinevv701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7256 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 12151 times:

Quoting STEELHEAD (Reply 7):
May be because "wet" is including the fuel ?

The web site "moneyterms" seems to confirm this origin. It says:

"The wet lease of an aircraft is an arrangement whereby the lessor provides at least some crew, maintenance and fuel. The last of these is now uncommon despite being origin of the term."


User currently offlinewilld From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 223 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 9055 times:

As an aviation lawyer I can tell you that the term comes from shipping. The two areas of law work side by side (ie: most of us specialising in aviation have at some stage worked in shipping law or still do) so as other have posted the term "wet" lease originates from shipping law.

Today the term does not really include the provision of fuel.

Of course as well as wet and dry leasing there is also the option of damp leasing as well.


User currently offlineBreiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1892 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 6823 times:

Quoting willd (Reply 17):
Today the term does not really include the provision of fuel.

Of course as well as wet and dry leasing there is also the option of damp leasing as well.

"Dry" seems to originate from "no fuel" (for boats) as indicated earlier.
In addition to dry, damp and wet, you have also ACMI.
"Damp" may mean "wet" w/o cabin crew, or w/o fuel.
"ACMI" is everything included, save for passengers  


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5214 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 6793 times:

The crew are wet - under sufficient compression.  


Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4611 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6115 times:

I thought "wet" mean't the booze was included   

User currently offlinewjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 4970 posts, RR: 18
Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5869 times:

Quoting STEELHEAD (Reply 6):
May be because "wet" is including the fuel ?

Just so we're clear, wet lease is also called ACMI, and it can only legally be done in the US from one certificated carrier to another. Fuel is not included, nor is ground handling, so reply 17, for example, has it slightly wrong.

"Everything included, save for passengers", means a full-service charter.


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7345 posts, RR: 32
Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5557 times:

Quoting spiPLANE (Reply 11):
Is this all we can come up with? This seems to be one of the most obvious questions ever posted, there must be a definete answer out there!

A great many of the terms used in aviation do not have definite answers as to where the term originated.

Aviation is a field where terms are borrowed and evolve over time into a unique aviation term. When the need for a term first becomes apparent, quite often a term for something similar from another industry is borrowed. Then the definition of the term evolves over time to represent a unique aviation set of conditions.

A great many terms in the aviation industry come from maritime sources. Others come from railroads. Both were in the business of moving passengers and freight long before airlines were invented.

Wet and Dry leases have unique definitions depending upon the level of avaition. As noted above - a wet lease or wet rental in the GA world in the US includes the fuel.

But no one can say 'This is the document where the term originated'


User currently offlinerichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4199 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5362 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 5):
The terms originated in ocean shipping. A dry lease, also called a "bareboat charter", was the ship only, with dry fuel tanks. A wet lease included wet components, such as crew and initial bunkers of oil.

Great answer and undoubtedly what the OP was looking for!
I would have guessed the terms had their roots in the maritime industry (so much of the aviation industry does) but I could not imagine what wet and dry referred to.



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineBreiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1892 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5312 times:

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 20):
Just so we're clear, wet lease is also called ACMI, and it can only legally be done in the US from one certificated carrier to another. Fuel is not included, nor is ground handling, so reply 17, for example, has it slightly wrong.

Your comment is correct when a US carrier is involved. It does not necessarily apply to the rest of the world.
"Wet" lease would loose some of its background compared to "dry" lease, if the fuel is not included.
But again, definitions vary.


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