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Spirit Applies For FLL-Barranquilla  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25441 posts, RR: 49
Posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4761 times:

Spirit has requested DOT authority to commence service between Ft. Lauderdale and Barranquilla, Colombia.

Spirit proposes to operate daily 144-seat A319 service commencing June 24, 2010.

Proposed schedule:
NK551 FLL-BAQ 2330-0110 A319
NK552 BAQ-FLL 0200-0545 A319

DOT-OST-2010-TBA


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8376 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4690 times:
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This is NOT a flight to EZE or GRU, what us Spirit thinking ? Not Avianca, AeroCondor, Aerotol, Pan AM, Eastern or AA have ever operated anything but a daylight schedule from Miami to BAQ. No matter how cheap it may be, there is no way i would take this flight. AA where are you, please when the new BAQ/Cartagena airport gets built come back.



Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Proposed schedule:
NK551 FLL-BAQ 2330-0110 A319
NK552 BAQ-FLL 0200-0545 A319


User currently offlinebiggsfo From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2926 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4666 times:

The times suggest that they plan to utilize an aircraft that was going to sit around FLL overnight anyway. So from that perspective, it is a good use of an asset. Whether the times will be a detriment to the success of the flight - well I guess that remains to be seen.

User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2561 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4645 times:

I think it is a clever schedule by Spirit. It may not be the traditional business schedule, but I am sure will not put off too many potential passengers. In fact, the fact that it allows for a whole working day at each origin is an advantage,

Also, it is good for optimisation of fleet usage with a 2 hour flight each way, and that allow for connections from and to such points as New York (LGA), Boston, Washington and Orlando as the main ones.

Aires will start flying daily to BAQ from the end of March, originating in Medellin. Flight schedules are midday departure from BAQ (mid afternoon arrival and departure in FLL), and evening arrival on the return to BAQ.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8376 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4618 times:
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a schedule to allow a full business day could be:
NK551 FLL-BAQ 1830-2110 A319
NK552 BAQ-FLL 2200-0045 A319

a 10PM out of BAQ is still lousy but getting to FLL at 1am can be lived with.


User currently offline757MDE From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 1753 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4577 times:

If this is granted we'll have to see how the loads and yields behave with three Airlines serving the BAQ - South Florida market (Avianca to MIA, Aires and Spirit to FLL)

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 1):
please when the new BAQ/Cartagena airport gets built come back.

You are set for a long wait, I don't see that new Airport being built anytime soon and honestly I don't think there's a need for it.
If AA stopped serving BAQ it sure wasn't about the Airport.

[Edited 2010-02-26 12:33:17]


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User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32799 posts, RR: 71
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4526 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 4):
a schedule to allow a full business day could be:

Why is a business day schedule needed a nearly pure-VFR market?

If anything, though, this might bring AA back to BAQ.



a.
User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2561 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4526 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 4):
a 10PM out of BAQ is still lousy but getting to FLL at 1am can be lived with.

But a 1 am arrival in FLL does not allow immediate onward connections. I bet quite a few pax will be destined to NY. A dawn arrival in FLL allows for that. Same for BOS, MCO and IAD among others. In fact, it is travellers between these points and Barranquilla that should be especially happy, as they will have easy connections available, whereas now the options are limited and expensive (Copa via PTY, AV to MIA and another airline there, or lengthy backtrack and not great connections at BOG).

Quoting 757MDE (Reply 5):
If this is granted we'll have to see how the loads and yields behave with three Airlines

As BAQ is an "open skies" destination, DOT should issue a prompt approval. It will indeed be interesting how the market behaves.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8376 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4413 times:
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Quoting mah4546 (Reply 6):
Why is a business day schedule needed a nearly pure-VFR market?

I agree, it is VFR by a long shot.

Quoting 757MDE (Reply 5):
You are set for a long wait, I don't see that new Airport being built anytime soon and honestly I don't think there's a need for it.

From my coastal connections, I have heard," the government has been buying farm land between Cartagena and BAQ for a regional airport. The BAQ airport is fine, its the CTG that is landlocked with no taxiway surrounded by slums. One airport would save duplication on flights from Bogota to the coast and have a bigger encatchment for more international flights. JFK daily, Miami 3 or more times daily, Atlanta, Houston, and Madrid could be reached with no BOG or Panama connection, I talking nonstop. CTG no has a LAN flight to LIMA, hey Sao Paulo could be flown and so could Toronto, Canada. The options of one regional coast airport are much better then two. Its not rocket science.


User currently onlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5279 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4376 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 8):
I agree, it is VFR by a long shot.

Then why worry about the schedule? VFR markets tend to be price driven, not schedule driven.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offline757MDE From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 1753 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4376 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 8):
From my coastal connections, I have heard," the government has been buying farm land between Cartagena and BAQ for a regional airport. The BAQ airport is fine, its the CTG that is landlocked with no taxiway surrounded by slums. One airport would save duplication on flights from Bogota to the coast and have a bigger encatchment for more international flights. JFK daily, Miami 3 or more times daily, Atlanta, Houston, and Madrid could be reached with no BOG or Panama connection, I talking nonstop. CTG no has a LAN flight to LIMA, hey Sao Paulo could be flown and so could Toronto, Canada. The options of one regional coast airport are much better then two. Its not rocket science.

What your connections say may or may not be true, but again, that airport and its benefits vs the current infrastructure (perceived or otherwise) are still very far to become a reality. All those destinations you mention could be already be served if there was the demand, it's not like CTG (the most congested of the two) can't accomodate 4 or 5 more flights if that was the case, again, it's got nothing to do with the Airport (remember Air Madrid used to fly to CTG anyway).

It may not be "rocket science" if everything was ideal, the money wasn't needed elsewhere and there was a manifest need for the new Airport (again, I am aware of the current shortcomings but still not enough to warrant a whole new Airport). Things as they stand it looks more complicated to me than you want to portray, and I don't see it happening soon, but it's just my opinion.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 7):
As BAQ is an "open skies" destination, DOT should issue a prompt approval. It will indeed be interesting how the market behaves.

Had forgotten about this... we'll have to wait and see then. Thanks for reminding.



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User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8376 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4365 times:
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Quoting 757MDE (Reply 10):
It may not be "rocket science" if everything was ideal, the money wasn't needed elsewhere and there was a manifest need for the new Airport (again, I am aware of the current shortcomings but still not enough to warrant a whole new Airport). Things as they stand it looks more complicated to me than you want to portray, and I don't see it happening soon, but it's just my opinion.

The Cartagena airport is a disgrace, if Cartagena is going to become the international tourist destination it wants to be that crucial infrastructure need has to be addressed. The current airport gives people an awful impression of CTG, a far more important airport for Colombian tourism then BAQ or BOG.


User currently offline757MDE From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 1753 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4318 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 11):
The Cartagena airport is a disgrace, if Cartagena is going to become the international tourist destination it wants to be that crucial infrastructure need has to be addressed. The current airport gives people an awful impression of CTG, a far more important airport for Colombian tourism then BAQ or BOG.

Again, I know the shortcomings of the current Airport, even though it's gone through some improvements lately but, in my opinion again, the proposed new Airport given the current circumstances and priorities is just a white elephant.

And even though a touristic gateway could use a better Airport, most people going to Cartagena go to Cartagena, and not to Cartagena's airport.



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User currently offlineSOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2497 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4288 times:

Quoting 757MDE (Reply 12):
Again, I know the shortcomings of the current Airport, even though it's gone through some improvements lately but, in my opinion again, the proposed new Airport given the current circumstances and priorities is just a white elephant.

Exactly.

Let's take the Manizales case. They have an airport with severe limitations, and it took ages for them to get a new one.

Obviously Cartagena is a different case being so important for national tourism, but as long as the current airport gets its job done, we better keep our feet in the ground and open our eyes: it's not happening anytime soon.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8376 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4115 times:
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Quoting 757MDE (Reply 12):
And even though a touristic gateway could use a better Airport, most people going to Cartagena go to Cartagena, and not to Cartagena's airport.

And most people going to Singapore go to Changi, a very nice airport.

The reason for a new airport, white elephant or not is economic development, something a country like Colombia needs. With a new airport and highway contruction (improvements) comes more development along the coast from Cartagena to Barranquilla which is the Critical issue I am trying to address. I really don't care very much about teh CTG airport but I do about teh economic situation on Colombia's coast. Maybe some tourists wil even discover Barranquillam which they could easily go to for teh day if they heard about it. Imagine the Hotel del Prado's poolside full of tourists, what a concept.


User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4505 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4098 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 1):
Not Avianca, AeroCondor, Aerotol, Pan AM, Eastern or AA have ever operated anything but a daylight schedule from Miami to BAQ. No matter how cheap it may be, there is no way i would take this flight. AA where are you, please when the new BAQ/Cartagena airport gets built come back.

In my view, this is the difference:
NK FLL-CTG: Tourism = Daylight schedule.
NK FLL-BAQ: Business and VFR markets = Red-eye schedule.




.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 9):
Then why worry about the schedule? VFR markets tend to be price driven, not schedule driven.

Spirit is operating some Latin American stations following the red-eye schedule which supposedly is better for the VFR travelers.
The model of transportation on NK FLL-BAQ would follow a resemblance as NK FLL-BQN, NK FLL-SAP, NK FLL-MGA and NK FLL-PTY.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2561 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4066 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 14):
he reason for a new airport, white elephant or not is economic development, something a country like Colombia needs. With a new airport and highway contruction (improvements) comes more development along the coast from Cartagena to Barranquilla which is the Critical issue I am trying to address.

Here is an idea: BAQ is located between Santa Marta and Cartagena. One 50 miles, the other 65. How about a fast train line that joins these 3 main coastal cities with BAQ in the middle? That would surely bring more development and more benefit to more people, and integration to the region than yet another airport!
SMR and CTG airports can stay, but BAQ, already a nice airport, can be developed to be the main international gateway to the region, and being able to reach Cartagena and Santa Marta cities by train within an hour should be a big advantage.

Unfortunately there is big money in the business of war, and what the government plans is to turn BAQ into a military base, rather than a focus of civilian development.

[Edited 2010-02-27 08:11:58]

User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11642 posts, RR: 61
Reply 17, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4058 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 6):
If anything, though, this might bring AA back to BAQ.

I'm still waiting for a daily MIA-BAQ and 5x/wk-daily MIA-CTG 738.  


User currently offline757MDE From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 1753 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3975 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 14):
And most people going to Singapore go to Changi, a very nice airport.

I don't know if you read well what I wrote.
Anyway, I'd be hard pressed to believe most people going to Singapore go to Changi. They rather go through Changi.
And yes, it's nice, I've been there a couple of times.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 14):
The reason for a new airport, white elephant or not is economic development

When there is the need or when there simply is no airport this could be a perfectly viable concept in my opinion, but again, whatever shortcomings the current airports have they still do their job and building another one when there is adequate (even if not perfect) infrastructure, when precisely the region needs money for other things as you have said is very short sighted.

The coast is no Hong Kong and their airports are no Kai-Tak, there's really not a manifest need for a new Airport and as much as the concept could be viable is no holy grail of anything, just ask the Japanese.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 15):
and what the government plans is to turn BAQ into a military base

BAQ has been a military base long ago hosting the CACOM4, I don't know if they will try to expand it or something but it's not a new concept for the Airport.

[Edited 2010-02-27 11:34:16]


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User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8376 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3896 times:
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Quoting Summa767 (Reply 16):
Unfortunately there is big money in the business of war, and what the government plans is to turn BAQ into a military base, rather than a focus of civilian development.

BAQ is already part air force base at one end of the runwway. The terminal is in teh middle and the other end is cargo on what used to be the old teriminal, walk to the plane facility.


User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2561 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3859 times:

Quoting 757MDE (Reply 18):
BAQ has been a military base long ago hosting the CACOM4, I don't know if they will try to expand it or something but it's not a new concept for the Airport.

They want to close BAQ to turn it into solely a military facility. Hence the idea for new airport has been dreamed up.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 19):
BAQ is already part air force base at one end of the runwway. The terminal is in teh middle and the other end is cargo on what used to be the old teriminal, walk to the plane facility

I know that. BOG and MDE also have military facilities. But the civilian airport (BAQ) would be made military.


User currently offline757MDE From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 1753 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3854 times:

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 20):
They want to close BAQ to turn it into solely a military facility. Hence the idea for new airport has been dreamed up.

I didn't know about that, if that plan goes ahead then of course a new Airport that fixes current shortcomings and replaces the current infrastructure would be due... somehow I don't think it would be a smooth process.

But still, as things are now and assuming no important changes I still believe it'd be a huge white elephant.

[Edited 2010-02-27 16:59:55]


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User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2561 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3526 times:

The US Department of Transport has granted Spirit authority to serve Barranquilla. This was merely a formality, but it is a step forward.
We can expect Spirit to start service to BAQ at the end of June.


User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3356 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3410 times:

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 22):
The US Department of Transport has granted Spirit authority to serve Barranquilla. This was merely a formality, but it is a step forward.
We can expect Spirit to start service to BAQ at the end of June.

Always great to see a locally-based airline expanding. Kudos to Spirit and best of luck on their new service.


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User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4395 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3335 times:

Won't this new service cannibalize on CTG? I don't know about the long-term viability of both flights, but if they can pull it off, good luck! The big difference in scheduling shoud help, but I see BAQ getting downgraded to 2-3x weekly after the launch though. This will be Spirit's 5th destination in Colombia after BOG, MDE, CTG and AXM.

How are flights to the coffee triangle doing by the way?



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