VC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2420 posts, RR: 9 Posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 14992 times:
On the new 747-8F hump I see the 3 windows like the very first 747 over 40 years ago. I assume that it is a small space for the pilots. How nice do the cargo companies make it up there for them?
Do they just put in some old, used recliner from UA circa 1988, or are there now decent lie-flat? Showers? Gally of sort? Is there an FA to help? A workspace?
One last question: does both the 747-8F & 747-8i have the new larger windows like the 787?
Thanks!
The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 81 Reply 1, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 14912 times:
Quoting VC10er (Thread starter): . I assume that it is a small space for the pilots.
Pilots, extra crew, cargo handlers if necessary, etc.
Quoting VC10er (Thread starter): How nice do the cargo companies make it up there for them? Do they just put in some old, used recliner from UA circa 1988, or are there now decent lie-flat?
Depends on the cargo company...I'm sure Boeing will put in whatever seats the customer asks for.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21460 posts, RR: 24 Reply 2, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 14872 times:
Quoting VC10er (Thread starter): How nice do the cargo companies make it up there for them?
Do they just put in some old, used recliner from UA circa 1988, or are there now decent lie-flat?
Crew rest seats on a Cargolux 747-400F. The door at the rear leads to a compartment with 2 bunks.
VC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2420 posts, RR: 9 Reply 4, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 14633 times:
I know they need not look like a BBJ, but I would sauce it up a bit with IFE! Throw pillows and a pool table!
Thanks for speedy response
The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 14315 posts, RR: 26 Reply 5, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 14616 times:
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 1): I'm sure Boeing will put in whatever seats the customer asks for.
Have any 747BCF/SF customers just left whatever seats were on the fore part of the upper deck when they got the plane?
Quoting VC10er (Reply 4): but I would sauce it up a bit with IFE!
I would guess that there is nothing stopping the crew from bringing a laptop or DVD player with them.
Yes, but they have to do the cooking themselves. I read a story years ago of a pilot on a cargo flight who wanted to chill some drinks in a cooler that was in the galley. This required removing some ice, which he disposed of by dumping it in the toilet. The problem was that the ice was actually dry ice, which caused the toilet to erupt.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
pnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2045 posts, RR: 12 Reply 6, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 13995 times:
The small hump still is a huge amount of room for two pilots, one extra crew and any deadheading pilots and crew. It isn't desiged to be an apartment on wings. Well maybe a NYC apartment . Remember crew still have duty day restrictions so have layovers etc. whereever they fly.
N328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6222 posts, RR: 3 Reply 8, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 13827 times:
Quoting gr8circle (Reply 7): The cost of such equipment on pax planes is recovered from pax fares over a period of time....how would a cargo carrier justify such costs....?
They wouldn't. It would be much easier to tell employees that it's OK to bring their iPods and laptops.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
kanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2460 posts, RR: 21 Reply 9, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 12662 times:
didn't one of the cargo carriers try a courier service that utilized these seats as well. I think one even applied for a permit to carry non company couriers as paying passengers.. never heard how that turned out.
7673mech From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 632 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 11354 times:
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 5): Have any 747BCF/SF customers just left whatever seats were on the fore part of the upper deck when they got the plane?
The ones I have flown as a flight mechanic - 100's and 200's looked like the pictures about - however yes - the seats were left over from the original operator.
There is a galley, lav, bunk room on newer jets, matresses thrown on the floor on older ones. The seats are for spare crew, loadmaster, couriers, mechanics etc.
Ferroviarius From Norway, joined Mar 2007, 177 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 11307 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 2): Crew rest seats on a Cargolux 747-400F. The door at the rear leads to a compartment with 2 bunks.
I beg your pardon for my ignorance, Viscount 724 and all others, but who are the non-flight crew persons, who would travel on a freighter?
I see that there are as many as six seats shown in the pictures you have presented, in addition to the bunks.
Also, I recall from A.s webpage that there were planned so called "Courier seats" on the 380F.
What is a courier? How does she or he get a ticket? Or do they travel without any ticket? How do they pass security at the airport, possibly at freight only airports without passenger terminals?
thrufru From Marshall Islands, joined Feb 2009, 188 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 10257 times:
A courier is a person that accompanies valuable cargo. Horses generally travel with several individuals that see to their welfare during a flight. Artwork is another example. The group sending the cargo is responsible for the cost to transport the courier as well.
There are a number of courier services that will hire a person for a single trip. Ie: I have an important package to deliver from BOS to LHR. It must be hand delivered. It is cheaper to pay for a ticket on a commercial airline and entrust this type of service than it is to hire a freight company.
pnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2045 posts, RR: 12 Reply 13, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9985 times:
And deadheading crew can easily take up three or more seats. Given the late flights that sometimes are necessary for cargo flights - it is sometimes more convenient than flying on a commercial flight.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21460 posts, RR: 24 Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9934 times:
Quoting Ferroviarius (Reply 11): Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 2):
Crew rest seats on a Cargolux 747-400F. The door at the rear leads to a compartment with 2 bunks.
I beg your pardon for my ignorance, Viscount 724 and all others, but who are the non-flight crew persons, who would travel on a freighter?
Quoting thrufru (Reply 12): A courier is a person that accompanies valuable cargo. Horses generally travel with several individuals that see to their welfare during a flight. Artwork is another example. The group sending the cargo is responsible for the cost to transport the courier as well.
Cargo carriers also often permit their own employees to travel non-rev.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21460 posts, RR: 24 Reply 15, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9667 times:
Quoting thrufru (Reply 12): Horses generally travel with several individuals that see to their welfare during a flight.
Photo below of seats installed at the rear of an Air Transport International DC-8-71/73 freighter for attendants accompanying horses (the yellow object in the foreground is a life raft).
Diagram showing the horse boxes and the attendant seats which are in the area once occupied by the galley and rear lavatories when the aircraft carried passengers many years ago. http://www.airtransport.cc/Charts/CourierSeatingDiagram.pdf
VC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2420 posts, RR: 9 Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9333 times:
If I owned my own cargo airline, i would treat my pilots well and give them some comfort and frills. Happy pilots are good pilots!
The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
gr8circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 2986 posts, RR: 5 Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4305 times:
Quoting VC10er (Reply 16): If I owned my own cargo airline, i would treat my pilots well and give them some comfort and frills. Happy pilots are good pilots!
Certainly....but they don't necessarily need IFE as some above have suggested.....if they're resting, they need to rest, not watch movies.....and if they have to travel in the seats and cabin pictured above
Aaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 7626 posts, RR: 28 Reply 18, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3964 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15): Photo below of seats installed at the rear of an Air Transport International DC-8-71/73 freighter for attendants accompanying horses (the yellow object in the foreground is a life raft).
Now that's traveling in style - LOL. Sheesh, count me out.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
pnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2045 posts, RR: 12 Reply 19, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3344 times:
Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 18): Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15):
Photo below of seats installed at the rear of an Air Transport International DC-8-71/73 freighter for attendants accompanying horses (the yellow object in the foreground is a life raft).
Now that's traveling in style - LOL. Sheesh, count me out.
And if you saw what it costs to ship a horse you would think they would be giving the animal a spa treatment while they were at it. Not to mention replace the circa 1960 seats for the trainer that accompanies it.
FXRA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 679 posts, RR: 3 Reply 20, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3235 times:
Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 19): And if you saw what it costs to ship a horse you would think they would be giving the animal a spa treatment while they were at it. Not to mention replace the circa 1960 seats for the trainer that accompanies it.
The animals are usually treated well, the couriers/grooms/handlers are an after thought.
Quoting Ferroviarius (Reply 11): I beg your pardon for my ignorance, Viscount 724 and all others, but who are the non-flight crew persons, who would travel on a freighter?
As mentioned above, employees are sometimes allowed to ride space A. Positioning crew, deadheads, dispatchers, loadmasters, and mechanics can ride on personal trips.. And other airline crew members can ride jumpseat. I'm taking a freighter to HKG next week for a vacation. It's usually a lot less hassle than pax airlines, lots of space to stretch out, and the price is right.
JetJeanes From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1415 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2996 times:
Most of these extra seats are for company personell. If i didnt want to ride in a jump seat in the cockpit i could choose
one of the seats just outside the cockpit door Depending on the aircraft and the way they load the freight i have seen nothing but a Fa seat on a dc-9 where on take-off your looking straight down the fuselage hopeing your belt is tight.
Many cargo carriers strip out as much unecssary weight as possible removing some galleys and i have seen lavs gone as well. There have been many nights I have crashed out on the floor. the seats i have seem are usually left over from the former carrier as most of these are used. The 747 has some kind of small compartment behind the pax seats in the "hump" but appears very small.
lowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 11 Reply 22, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2834 times:
Quoting N328KF (Reply 8): It would be much easier to tell employees that it's OK to bring their iPods and laptops.
And that is exactly what we do. In addition, most crew members leave books. and magazines behind, so each aircraft acquires its own library over time. Skip any IFE, and just give me clean, comfortable bunks and seats any time.
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