DTWLAX From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 684 posts, RR: 0 Posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 10725 times:
Both LH (from FRA) and KLM serve LAX daily with B747 and B747-Combi respectively.
Both have no IFE in Y.
I was under the impression that LAX was an important route for the respective airlines and would warrant atleast an aircraft with IFE.
LH is atleast adding an A340 for the summer but nothing from KLM.
At the same time, both BA and AF are operating 3x daily in summer.
I agree that KLM would not want to compete with AF but is it so difficult for them to fill up a B777 or an A332 (if it can make it)?
What about LH with just a single B747 to LAX except for the summer months?
Is there not much traffic from AMS and FRA to LAX?
Or is LAX not that important to their operations?
LAXintl From United States of America, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 22063 posts, RR: 51 Reply 1, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 10712 times:
LH actualy is 2x daily year-round with 3rd flight during summer most years.
KLM similarly has operated a 2nd flight in the past, as recently as summer of 2007 with a 772.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
DTWLAX From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 684 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 10695 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1): LH actualy is 2x daily year-round with 3rd flight during summer most years.
Is it 2x daily from FRA? I know there is a daily from MUC.
I should have been more clear.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 22063 posts, RR: 51 Reply 4, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 10599 times:
Lufthansa winter is 1x MUC, 1x FRA. Summer usually is 1x MUC, 2x FRA.
Regardles the flights work hand in hand. Neither Frankfurt nor Munich are huge O&D markets like London for example, and both LH flights carry a high percentage of connections into the greater LH network. Also dont forget, LH also has its subsidiary Swiss at LAX which provides yet another flight that opens up additional beyond connections via ZRH.
And no, I dont see having or not having IFE in Y having any relations to the importance of a market or not.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
CARST From Germany, joined Jul 2006, 706 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 10487 times:
LH is at least installing PTVs in one 744 in April. According to sources like muc-forum this will be a test.
I think we can assume that if no problems occur LH will be installing PTVs in all 744s not leaving the fleet in coming years when A380s and 748s come online.
So in one or two years LAX will have PTVs in Y on LHs A380s, 744s or 748s.
OA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4980 posts, RR: 25 Reply 7, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 10469 times:
Quoting DTWLAX (Thread starter): Both LH (from FRA) and KLM serve LAX daily with B747 and B747-Combi respectively.
Both have no IFE in Y.
There is more to whether or not an airline considers a market important than whether or not the aircraft serving that market are equipped with PTVs.
DTWLAX From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 684 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 10305 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4): Also dont forget, LH also has its subsidiary Swiss at LAX which provides yet another flight that opens up additional beyond connections via ZRH.
The timing of the Swiss LAX-ZRH makes it very difficult to get decent connections via ZRH beyond Europe.
Quoting seemyseems (Reply 5): KLM is currently installing IFE on the 747 Economy Class.
I did not know about that. Are any of the 74M's already installed with PTVs?
LAXintl From United States of America, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 22063 posts, RR: 51 Reply 9, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 10248 times:
Quoting DTWLAX (Reply 8): The timing of the Swiss LAX-ZRH makes it very difficult to get decent connections via ZRH beyond Europe.
ZRH-LAX 1310-1645
LAX-ZRH 1925-1545
Whats wrong with those timings?
I've flown SR/LX over the years and happily connected around Europe, the Middle East and Africa with ease.
Anyhow you are free to mix/match connections using LH FRA and MUC hubs also.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
JRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4598 posts, RR: 51 Reply 10, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 10191 times:
Quoting DTWLAX (Thread starter): Is there not much traffic from AMS and FRA to LAX?
There is from AMS.... horses, that is. I don't know the exact numbers, but there are very few flights that don't have horses on board... and they pay well!
Quoting DTWLAX (Reply 8): I did not know about that. Are any of the 74M's already installed with PTVs?
PH-BFN which is used for certification which should be done soon, then the rest of the fleet will receive it as well!
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
DTWLAX From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 684 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 10027 times:
Whats wrong with those timings?
I've flown SR/LX over the years and happily connected around Europe, the Middle East and Africa with ease.
I tried CAI, TLV, JED, RUH, AUH, DXB from LAX for random dates this summer... May 07 to June 02.
If you are traveling from LAX via ZRH, except for TLV, none of the other destinations have connections the same day from ZRH.
Unless these are recent changes (which I am sure they are not), not sure how you happily connected to the Middle East without having to spend the night at ZRH.
If you read carefully, I said the timing of the LAX-ZRH sector was not good.
I did not mention the ZRH-LAX sector.
AA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5341 posts, RR: 11 Reply 13, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 9917 times:
Having flown the KLM route (LAX-AMS), I can tell you that on the day I flew it, she was loaded to the gills. Full Y, full J, and seven pallets in the tail. I watched them get loaded myself.
And yes, without a PTV, it was a VERY LONG 11 hours, particularly as KLM's 747 Y seat is very uncomfortable after 2.5 hours. I got off of that plane swearing I'd never do another long haul trip again.... even though I love flying.
AirlineCritic From Finland, joined Mar 2009, 612 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 9850 times:
Quoting JRadier (Reply 10): There is from AMS.... horses, that is. I don't know the exact numbers, but there are very few flights that don't have horses on board... and they pay well!
Pay well and do not demand an IFE? The other airlines should get on this market, too.
azncsa4qf744er From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 671 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 9176 times:
Quoting CARST (Reply 6): So in one or two years LAX will have PTVs in Y on LHs A380s, 744s or 748s.
Oh god, not another A380 operator at LAX. Seriously, LAX cannot handle the A380 and lets not forget arrivals into TBIT. If anything LH would bring in the B748 before they bring in the whale.
laca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3749 posts, RR: 2 Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 8837 times:
Quoting azncsa4qf744er (Reply 15): Oh god, not another A380 operator at LAX. Seriously, LAX cannot handle the A380 and lets not forget arrivals into TBIT. If anything LH would bring in the B748 before they bring in the whale.
I don't think we'll see LH bring the 380 to LAX in the near future. Perhaps LAX will become a 748 destination. I think people like the preference of being able to choose between and afternoon and evening departure over one flight a day during the busy summer season.
I was hoping KL would bring the 77W into LAX but that probably won't happen as they do very well with the 74E(M) because of the amount of money they make on the cargo with that flight. I thought KL would eventually bring in a 74F to LAX and then use an all passsenger 744 or downgauge to the 772 and have two flights.
When KL had added the second flight in 2007, it didn't do as well as expected. I feel the flight left LAX too early in the day 1200 noon.
jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7348 posts, RR: 7 Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8751 times:
LAX is the most important west coast destination for European airlines. San Francisco is the second west coast destination the European airlines and if they serve a third its usually Seattle.
aaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1443 posts, RR: 14 Reply 20, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7098 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1): LH actualy is 2x daily year-round with 3rd flight during summer most years
Quoting DTWLAX (Reply 2): Is it 2x daily from FRA? I know there is a daily from MUC.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4): Lufthansa winter is 1x MUC, 1x FRA
MUC is 5x p/wk until April.
Quoting JRadier (Reply 10): There is from AMS.... horses, that is. I don't know the exact numbers, but there are very few flights that don't have horses on board... and they pay well!
I know I prefer watching Ferraris get offloaded from the LH-FRA flight. At least one every other day. Nice beast with a lot more horsepower!
With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
CARST From Germany, joined Jul 2006, 706 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6447 times:
Quoting AJO (Reply 18): That's incorrect: both do have IFE in Y. Aircraft are equipped with overhead TV monitors, and with a radio-like device in the armrests.
Come on, you know what the thread starter was talking about. The thread is about "modern IFE", read PTV with AVOD, not overhead monitors.
LHPII From Croatia, joined May 2009, 179 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6216 times:
Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 13): particularly as KLM's 747 Y seat is very uncomfortable after 2.5 hours. I got off of that plane swearing I'd never do another long haul trip again.... even though I love flying.
I don't think there is any economy class seat that is comfortable after 2.5 hours of sitting. Only leg room makes difference in economy!
dalce From Netherlands, joined Feb 2007, 1582 posts, RR: 7 Reply 23, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5569 times:
Quoting DTWLAX (Reply 12): I tried CAI, TLV, JED, RUH, AUH, DXB from LAX for random dates this summer... May 07 to June 02.
If you are traveling from LAX via ZRH, except for TLV, none of the other destinations have connections the same day from ZRH.
Basically,
CAI is a no go, since this flight departs ZRH at 09.45 LT
TLV double daily, LAX flight connects to LX 256 departing 22.45hrs LT
JED & RUH and AUH are not served by LX on LX metal.
DXB leaves at 12.45hrs so also a no go.
Out of the 6 destinations you mentioned only 2 are valid.
This LAX flight does however connect to almost all European destinations as well as flights to for example DME and JNB.
Also some far east destinations such as BKK & HKG can be made ( althougha flight over the pacific from LAX to BKK&HKG are far far more convient ).
Just my € 0.02
flown on : F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,319,320,321,AB6. Next flights AMS-ZRH-AMS on
airbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 6890 posts, RR: 7 Reply 24, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5281 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4): And no, I dont see having or not having IFE in Y having any relations to the importance of a market or not.
Well, to some extent it does. LH's 744 destinations are heavy leisure destinations which typically have lower yields. The same goes for AF for example.
25 PHKLM: KLM is equipping all 747's with AVOD in Economy class, currently a number of planes if re-fitted already with the rest scheduled to be completed this
26 NicoEDDF: Exactly...so why waste money for a super cost conscious leisure pax in Y when the next time he/she's flying the choice of cheapest price will be the
27 DTWLAX: [ Only 1 is valid. What is the second one? The poster above mentioned easy connections to the Middle East. That is why I chose the airports around tha
28 CARST: From US East-Coast it is shorter to fly via Europe to BKK than via LAX. Not considering hypothetical non-stop flights here; NYC to BKK >7500nm. ht
29 airbazar: That's true. I myself have traveled to SIN and NRT via Europe (I much prefere it that way) but that's getting off topic. The issue at hand is from LA
30 DTWLAX: Do you know how many have been fitted with AVOD in Y? What dates does this schedule start?
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get offloaded from the LH-FRA flight. At least one every other day. Nice beast with a lot more horsepower!
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