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Day 1 JFK Runway Project  
User currently offlinecontrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8837 times:

Well seemed like business as usual for us today. Today of course marks day 1 of the JFK Runway Project. Of course I work the morning shift so whats to say of the evening but I don't think any major delays will come just yet. Test will come as we're suppose to get little more snow this week.


Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2881 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8806 times:

Got to see a few departures on 31R which is exciting as hell for us over here in H81 since we really only get to see planes landing/taking off when 13L is in use...otherwise we don't see that much. I was soooooo    I was on    !!!


"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlinesectflyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 359 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8647 times:

Are we going to see this project on one of those engenering shows on the discovery channel later this year?

User currently offlinecontrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 8541 times:

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 1):
Got to see a few departures on 31R which is exciting as hell for us over here in H81 since we really only get to see planes landing/taking off when 13L is in use...otherwise we don't see that much. I was soooooo    I was on    !!!

I put up a thread about using 31R last week. I was working gate 14 when they were doing duel take offs using 31R and 13R. That was a sight to see, not to mention really noisy. They have been doing practice runs the last couple weeks and all seem to be working out pretty well.

Quoting sectflyer (Reply 2):
Are we going to see this project on one of those engenering shows on the discovery channel later this year?

I haven't seen anything but who knows. Would be somewhat interesting I would think.



Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineAAJFKSJUBKLYN From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7692 times:

It was not business as usual. My flight 1090 from MIA-JFK on 3/1, was delayed by ATC because of runway construction. This flight, regardless of the higher than normal winds at JFK, was delayed almost 1 hour because of this scenario. All LGA flights departed on time.

Here we go!


User currently offlineontime From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 64 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7556 times:

It was definitely not a good first day:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...JOglmWnjj-57ThaQCHtdageLgD9E61UK04

As maybe to be expected, the Post was a bit more sensational about it:

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/p...ster_at_jfk_LS0h1xXTWYk1hUBPFhI0iL


User currently offlinedeltaguy767 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 663 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5754 times:

Well if they run into delays finishing the project later in the summer, there should be some pretty interesting diversions. BDL and HPN might end up bearing some of the brunt along with SWF. On a personal note, I'm avoiding JFK like the plague until at least a month after the project is completed. My employer even has me using HPN for domestic and EWR for international trips.

Cheers from BDL,   
DeltaGuy767



A Good Landing is one you walk away from!
User currently offlinedivemaster08 From Cayman Islands, joined Jul 2008, 334 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5656 times:

question, why dont they just close the runway during the late hours of the night and make the work go on during the quieter periods at JFK?
E.G. close the runway from 11pm till 5am and work a 100ft (or more at a time). That would at least keep the delays down to a minimum, no?



My dream, is to fly, over the rainbow, so high!
User currently offlinecontrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5547 times:

Quoting divemaster08 (Reply 7):
question, why dont they just close the runway during the late hours of the night and make the work go on during the quieter periods at JFK?
E.G. close the runway from 11pm till 5am and work a 100ft (or more at a time). That would at least keep the delays down to a minimum, no?

There really is no good time although I hear what your saying. I'm guessing money and I see it like this. The night diverential that you would have to pay the workers I'm guessing alone would be extremely expensive as oppose to them working during the day and giving out overtime as needed. Now this is me assuming it isn't a 24hr operation which I don't think it is. Of course this is me just guessing but if the Port Authority has anything to do with it, its gonna have to do with money.



Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlinejneel43 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 17 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5108 times:

This isn't just a patch job, they are rebuilding the entire runway and changing the surface from asphalt to concrete.


WAL - The only way to fly
User currently offlinegregarious119 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 532 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4938 times:

Quoting divemaster08 (Reply 7):
question, why dont they just close the runway during the late hours of the night and make the work go on during the quieter periods at JFK?
E.G. close the runway from 11pm till 5am and work a 100ft (or more at a time). That would at least keep the delays down to a minimum, no?

From the article I read, doing it this way would cause a significant inconvenience for 2-3 years, where as the current method will be much higher inconvenience, but only for (hopefully) 4 months.

Better to just get it over with than let it drag out....


User currently offlinedragon6172 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1202 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4896 times:

Is this project funded by the American Recovery Act? Do they have all those stupid ass wasteful signs posted around the project, and on the taxiways so you know why you are being delayed?


Phrogs Phorever
User currently offlineCorinthians From United States of America, joined May 2008, 340 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4837 times:

Quoting contrails15 (Reply 3):

I put up a thread about using 31R last week. I was working gate 14 when they were doing duel take offs using 31R and 13R. That was a sight to see, not to mention really noisy. They have been doing practice runs the last couple weeks and all seem to be working out pretty well.

31R and 13R? Or don't you mean 31R and 31L?


User currently offlinecontrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4808 times:

Quoting Corinthians (Reply 12):
31R and 13R? Or don't you mean 31R and 31L?

I actually meant to say 31R and 22R. Sorry bout that.



Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineAV8orWALK From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 180 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4718 times:

I can't wait to see Tim Gunn in a hard hat. "Ok....Runway Project designers...make it work! GO GO GO!"

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Cheers!
Drew MCO



The safest place to be in an airplane crash is on the ground.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21558 posts, RR: 55
Reply 15, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4497 times:

Quoting jneel43 (Reply 9):
This isn't just a patch job, they are rebuilding the entire runway and changing the surface from asphalt to concrete.

   This isn't something you can do in bits and pieces - this is serious work, and the fact that they're able to get it done in four months is pretty damn good. It sucks, but better now than in the winter, when you'd get the strong winds more often.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineRobertS975 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 940 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4215 times:
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Quoting divemaster08 (Reply 7):
question, why dont they just close the runway during the late hours of the night and make the work go on during the quieter periods at JFK?

The work is far too extensive to do it piecemeal and part-time. They are changing from asphalt to concrete, and widening the runway and some of the taxiways. This means completely ripping out the old runway before installing the new. Although they may well do it in sections, it cannot be done during the overnight hours and expect to operate on the runway during the day.

Quoting dragon6172 (Reply 11):
Is this project funded by the American Recovery Act? Do they have all those stupid ass wasteful signs posted around the project, and on the taxiways so you know why you are being delayed?

There are other funds which go towards airport intrastructure improvements. This will not be funded by Stimulus money.


User currently offlinespacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3624 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4005 times:

Quoting contrails15 (Reply 13):
I actually meant to say 31R and 22R. Sorry bout that.

I was wondering about that myself, but didn't want to sound stupid questioning it... dual takeoffs on 13R and 31R would have been a sight to see indeed! Just as long as it wasn't 13R and 31L  
Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 16):
There are other funds which go towards airport intrastructure improvements. This will not be funded by Stimulus money.

Yeah, because god forbid the stimulus money gets put towards something useful!

[Edited 2010-03-03 22:10:25]


I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineAAJFKSJUBKLYN From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3886 times:

The reason it is being done now is because this is Stimulus money and all funds must show some sort of movement by the end of March. If it had not begun, they would have lost the funding.

The PA as always, botching up schedule and progress, then blaming the private sector (thoise doing the work) for the delays. It is the WTC site all over again...wait, watch....4 months...never...more like 6.


User currently offlinerjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3758 times:

Flew into JFK last night around 11:30 local. Landed on 4R...Saw lots of bright lights and activity on 31L/13R...I assume they are working around the clock?

User currently offlinemysterzip From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 167 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3733 times:

Apparently, what they're supposed to do for departures is the same thing as they do in bad weather: take-off slot allocations at the gate/stand, not out in the field (at least that's the case with international departures). I know that domestic arrivals process is the same - a slot is allocated and the plane is allowed to take-off from the departure airport. International arrivals process is a little bit tricky because I don't think FAA can ground a plane at, say, LHR because JFK is stuck, since they have no jurisdiction over international departures. I've heard a story where passengers were stuck on BOS-JFK flight, where the passengers were stuck at the gate in Boston for three hours because JFK wouldn't give them a landing slot (and they missed their connection). The flight itself is 1 hr, at best.

The slot allocation is done throughout the day, but most of the flights between 6-9 am and pm will have gate delays on top of taxiway delays because of the heavy traffic. International flights have more "rights" than a domestic flight due to FAA rules, so a JBLU flight to MCO at 8am may not depart at 8 because there is also a BA flight at 8am. This probably causes lots of frustrations among the domestic carriers and probably partially is the cause for some domestic delays. Furthermore, the slot is taken away if the airline misses its departure window and can wait a while for the next slot to open up.

So if I was on a short-haul flight, I would definitely take Amtrak over any of the airlines into JFK from BOS and WAS, but that's always what I recommend. There may be so many problems with the short-haul flights than what people know.

PANYNJ realises it's a time-sensitive project and has impact worldwide, so it has penalties in place for the contractors, should they go overschedule and incentives, should they finish early.

Edit to additional info.

[Edited 2010-03-04 08:25:54]

User currently offlinecontrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3637 times:

So we have ETT. (Est. Time to Taxi) which is leading to planes not leaving at their block off times. Did two flights today that both left 15mins and 20mins later then scheduled. This I'm told is to help out with the back up of traffic I guess they are having to deal with on the taxi ways due to the construction. But my question is, are we the only ones doing this? This is Jetblue btw.


Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlinehardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 22, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks ago) and read 3335 times:

Anyone knows why they will change the runway from asphalt to concrete?

Thanks,


User currently onlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2881 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks ago) and read 3302 times:

Quoting hardiwv (Reply 22):
Anyone knows why they will change the runway from asphalt to concrete?

Concrete needs less mx and lasts longer.

EDIT:
You can see some information from the ACPA website: http://acpa.org/

[Edited 2010-03-06 12:11:40]


"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlinespacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3624 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3005 times:

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 23):
Concrete needs less mx and lasts longer.

So here's what I'm wondering - if concrete needs less mx and lasts longer, why aren't all runways made of concrete?? I mean, JFK is a big airport, surely they would have thought of this in advance and had the money to do it.

Serious question, and I'm sure there's a real answer. I've wondered this of roads too, especially given the pothole problems we've had in NYC the last few weeks (after several big snowstorms and then melts). NY area highways are always asphalt, whereas CA highways are almost always concrete. I used to think it must be something about expansion, that asphalt can expand and contract with the weather whereas concrete will crack when it shrinks. But if that were the case, then why not just repave this runway in asphalt again? The weather may be getting warmer now, but it's gonna get cold again next winter...

I guess I'm wondering why the change, and why they built the runway in asphalt to begin with if concrete is better.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
25 N92R03 : Generally speaking, concrete is more expensive, but lasts longer than asphalt. Was on B6 21 last night, had about 45 minutes of taxi time.
26 Post contains links flybywire777 : Here is a link from the PA on the project. http://www.panynj.gov/airports/jfk-facts-info.html http://www.panynj.gov/airports/pdf/JFK-Runway-Project.pd
27 B6JFKH81 : I am pleased with the performance this week. I was on a total of 8 flights into or out of JFK to perform station visits. All my flights pushed back ea
28 contrails15 : On morning departures yesterday 3/11 they were using 31R and 4L. Made for a very interesting morning. Today I had 3 flts two of which blocked off 15 l
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