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Boy Talks To Pilots From JFK Airport Tower  
User currently offlinewerdywerd From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 584 posts, RR: 1
Posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 30622 times:

Quote:

MYFOXNY.COM - The Federal Aviation Administration is investigating an air traffic controller who apparently let a child speak to pilots over the radio from the control tower at John F. Kennedy Airport.


VIDEO/TEXT HERE:
http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/traffic/t...ts-from-jfk-airport-tower-20100302

[Edited 2010-03-02 20:21:51]

312 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineYYZRWY23 From Canada, joined Aug 2009, 561 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 30586 times:

I can already see people blowing this out of proportion saying everyones lives were at risk and such.

My opinion: This should not have happened. Letting a child communicate with an aircraft is unacceptable and does pose safety concerns if he were to say the wrong instruction or instruct the wrong call-sign. The controller needs a good talking too and put him back up there as he is probably a good controller, but made a bad call. I don't see how the supervisor didn't catch this and end the activity immediately.

My 2 cents.....

YYZRWY23

Just to add: Kid seemed to know what he was doing, maybe we will hear his voice again in 15 years (albeit a bit lower :-P).



If you don't stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them.
User currently offlineNWADC9 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4898 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 30576 times:

"In fact, only FAA-licensed controllers are supposed to communicate with airplanes."

In a way, he did. The most probable scenario is the controller would tell his son what to say, who would then relay that phrase to the aircraft.



Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 30513 times:

I don't think anyone would have noticed or cared if this occurred at Macon, Georgia but JFK? Really? I almost want to say this was a positive (key words there being "almost want to") in that the pilots being given clearances from a child got a kick out of it but it was still dumb IMO, especially for an airport as busy as JFK. If an emergency were to arise (such as a US 1549 incident), seconds count and the time required to get the kid of the line and get the trained professional back on line would take away crucial seconds. Not sure how I would discipline this guy if I was his supervisor.

Quoting YYZRWY23 (Reply 1):
I can already see people blowing this out of proportion saying everyones lives were at risk and such.

Thankfully none were that day. But if you read (or have read) Sully's book "Highest Duty", look at how much he recognizes how quick Air Traffic Controller Patrick Harten was in contacting various airports, including Teterboro and going back and forth from US1549 to the airports.

[Edited 2010-03-02 20:41:42]

User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 30328 times:

Quoting YYZRWY23 (Reply 1):
My opinion: This should not have happened. Letting a child communicate with an aircraft is unacceptable and does pose safety concerns if he were to say the wrong instruction or instruct the wrong call-sign. The controller needs a good talking too and put him back up there as he is probably a good controller, but made a bad call. I don't see how the supervisor didn't catch this and end the activity immediately.

   The FAA shouldn't do anything severe. The ATC shouldn't have let the kid do it, but he seemed to have it under control for the most part. But emergencies do happen. The worst they should do is reprimand him for it.



2013 World Series Champions!
User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9153 posts, RR: 76
Reply 5, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 30299 times:

Not a smart career move on the part of the controller, and I would not have accepted an instruction form a kid.


We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineFX1816 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1400 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 30228 times:

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 4):
But emergencies do happen.

Emergencies do happen BUT and it's a big but, the controller most likely was still plugged in with his headset while his child most likely had the handset thus the controller would have easily been able to override the kid if something happened. I mean that's what goes on during our training, when on position your OJTI has full capabilities to be able to jump in over you as they are plugged in simultaneously with you. I agree with FlyDeltaJets, if this were almost anywhere other than JFK or one of the other larger airports it wouldn't have even made the news. It's really blown waaaaaaaaay out of proportion.

FX1816


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21679 posts, RR: 55
Reply 7, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 30169 times:

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 3):
If an emergency were to arise (such as a US 1549 incident), seconds count and the time required to get the kid of the line and get the trained professional back on line would take away crucial seconds.

He was right there, he was plugged in, and he was talking to the aircraft as well (which the Fox clip conveniently leaves out). There would have been no delay whatsoever.

I like sites like LiveATC as much as the next guy, but sometimes I wonder whether putting the feeds out on the internet is really a good idea - too many people out there who are somehow primed to panic about the first thing that they hear that doesn't sound right. This is really not a big deal, and I hope the controller involved keeps his job - he's one of the better ones in that tower.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21679 posts, RR: 55
Reply 8, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 29983 times:

Quoting FX1816 (Reply 6):
I mean that's what goes on during our training, when on position your OJTI has full capabilities to be able to jump in over you as they are plugged in simultaneously with you.

Excellent point. This is really little different from having a trainee controller talking to airplanes while under supervision. Let's not pretend that the controller wasn't very cued into what was going on, and wasn't ready to step in at a moment's notice if things got the slightest bit out of hand.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineAviationbuff08 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 346 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 29886 times:

Is this the same controller that is on the youtube videos, recordings rather of JFK tower? He certainly sounds familiar, although I do listen to JFK tower when NYC has some severe weather so that might by why the controller sounds familiar..

Quoting FX1816 (Reply 6):
The controller most likely was still plugged in with his headset while his child most likely had the handset thus the controller would have easily been able to override the kid if something happened. I mean that's what goes on during our training, when on position your OJTI has full capabilities to be able to jump in over you as they are plugged in simultaneously with you. I agree with FlyDeltaJets, if this were almost anywhere other than JFK or one of the other larger airports it wouldn't have even made the news. It's really blown waaaaaaaaay out of proportion.

I would have to agree with this statement, this is the most likely what happened.

Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
This is really not a big deal, and I hope the controller involved keeps his job - he's one of the better ones in that tower.

  


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5624 posts, RR: 29
Reply 10, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 29824 times:

That must have been a blast for the kid, and the pilots seemed to enjoy it as well.

Having said that, what a really stupid thing to do. Not because of the "danger" aspect - he was obviously well-supervised - but because of what it says about the professionalism of the controllers. I'm sure you can say that I'm being too "uptight" or whatnot, but I'm not the one calling myself a professional air traffic controller either.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8634 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 29759 times:

Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 2):
The most probable scenario is the controller would tell his son what to say, who would then relay that phrase to the aircraft.

That's very much like saying, the pilot told his son which buttons to push, so it's okay that a 10 year old boy was flying.

It's really, really not!  
Quoting Mir (Reply 8):
Excellent point. This is really little different from having a trainee controller talking to airplanes while under supervision. Let's not pretend that the controller wasn't very cued into what was going on, and wasn't ready to step in at a moment's notice if things got the slightest bit out of hand.

Nonetheless. This is one of those jobs (like surgery) that just can't be in the wrong hands. If the boy says something stupid it could cause confusion.


User currently offlineWestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2134 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 29666 times:

As Zeke noted above - pilots would normally be hesitant to accept instructions from a kid's voice. But, in the Fox clip, the JBU171 crew appear to acknowledge the takeoff clearance right away. I'm guessing the adult controller may have - just before that clip - prepped (alerted) aircraft monitoring tower that the boy was going to be on frequency.


The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
User currently offlineFX1816 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1400 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 29597 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 11):
Quoting Mir (Reply 8):
Excellent point. This is really little different from having a trainee controller talking to airplanes while under supervision. Let's not pretend that the controller wasn't very cued into what was going on, and wasn't ready to step in at a moment's notice if things got the slightest bit out of hand.

Nonetheless. This is one of those jobs (like surgery) that just can't be in the wrong hands. If the boy says something stupid it could cause confusion.

Not really, I mean it is a tough job requiring hard work and real good attention to detail but if the boy were to have said something wrong then the controller, as I said before, would have most likely been plugged in too and would have stepped in immediately to quickly amend the situation.

Quoting WestWing (Reply 12):
I'm guessing the adult controller may have - just before that clip - prepped (alerted) aircraft monitoring tower that the boy was going to be on frequency.

Nope he wouldn't have alerted the crew that his son would be on frequency. Everything we say on a "hot" line gets recorded and unless you don't care or don't think ahead, you would never make that kind of announcement over the freq. Now if my son were at work with me I would never let him do something like this even during the most downtime we get, during the middle of the night.

FX1816


User currently offlineWestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2134 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 29508 times:

Quoting FX1816 (Reply 13):
Nope he wouldn't have alerted the crew that his son would be on frequency.

Interesting. If the flight crew were expecting to hear the tower to issue "Jetblue 171, Runway Four Left, Cleared for Takeoff" and instead - without expecting it - they heard a kid's voice say "Jetblue 171 cleared for takeoff", I would think the flight crew ought to have asked for a confirmation, just to be safe. It would be interesting if we could hear an unedited voice recording made during those few minutes (not just an edited clip on the news).



The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
User currently offlinesasd209 From British Indian Ocean Territory, joined Oct 2007, 642 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 29431 times:

Wow, cool!!! I was listening that day on liveatc.net, and I never thought it would become this issue. I was somewhat suprised when I heard the childs voice, but all went according to plan and the aircrafts went about their business. In the states they have a 'take your child to work day', I assumed this was it. At the worst, this man should get a reprimand if he violated his policies and procedures, but that should be it, in my opinion.

User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 16, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 29366 times:

If you are going to take your kid to any ATC tower, and let him start talking on a frequency - may as well make it the busiest and most stressful of any in the world lol

All a harmless bit of fun - nothing to get worked up about as long as the controller was plugged in the whole time - its all good.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineFX1816 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1400 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 29326 times:

Quoting WestWing (Reply 14):
Quoting FX1816 (Reply 13):
Nope he wouldn't have alerted the crew that his son would be on frequency.

Interesting. If the flight crew were expecting to hear the tower to issue "Jetblue 171, Runway Four Left, Cleared for Takeoff" and instead - without expecting it - they heard a kid's voice say "Jetblue 171 cleared for takeoff", I would think the flight crew ought to have asked for a confirmation, just to be safe.

I would probably guess they knew which runway they were talking off from because ,at some point that we didn't get to hear, they were most likely told to which rwy and "position and hold". That is just an assumption on my part not that I work at JFK ATCT or anything.

FX1816


User currently offlinecuban8 From Kiribati, joined Sep 2009, 273 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 29245 times:

At least the boy is more clear and have a better pronounciation than for instance a bad crew from Air China (or other countries/carriers for that part). If you look it this way, this is a safety detail compared to the poor english level of some of the crews uses in big airports.

[Edited 2010-03-03 00:44:32]

User currently offlineGothamSpotter From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 29190 times:

Controllers make enough mistakes without the distraction of a kid around.

Towers should remain "sterile" just like the cockpits they're talking to.


User currently offlinegocaps16 From Japan, joined Jan 2000, 4347 posts, RR: 21
Reply 20, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 29200 times:

Relax all. All the kid was saying is "cleared for takeoff" and contact departure" only. Yea, not smart, but no harm to the airplane was done. I thought the clip was rather cute and funny.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 16):
All a harmless bit of fun - nothing to get worked up about as long as the controller was plugged in the whole time - its all good.

A harmless bit of fun. Only in the USA.  



SIX T'S!......TURN. TIME. TWIST. THROTTLE. TALK. TRACK.
User currently offlineLtbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13138 posts, RR: 15
Reply 21, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 28851 times:

The ATC personnel all violated rules, including letting an unauthorized person into a highly secure area at one of the busiest airports in the world. The supervisors at the time as well as the ATC person who directly allowed this should all face at least a month of suspension without pay, maybe even fire a few people to make the point. Sorry, I have little tolarance for any such violations of something as critical as ATC.

User currently offlineAndyEastMids From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 1018 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 28665 times:

Quoting Ltbewr (Reply 21):
The ATC personnel all violated rules, including letting an unauthorized person into a highly secure area at one of the busiest airports in the world. The supervisors at the time as well as the ATC person who directly allowed this should all face at least a month of suspension without pay, maybe even fire a few people to make the point. Sorry, I have little tolarance for any such violations of something as critical as ATC.

  

Fully agree... The crass stupidity of allowing this beggars belief, and would lead me to question the judgement of those who let it happen. All it takes is a chain of minor events... A mistaken instruction followed by an r/t failure - minor failings linked together have the potential to become more serious incidents. Remember the Aeroflot A310 that crashed when the pilots let their kids sit in the front seats during the cruise? This had the potential to be the ATC equivalent, had things gone wrong. When I fly as a passenger or a practicing pilot, I want to be sure ATC is trained, licenced and competent 100% of the time, and not have to be concerned or thinking about whether the transmission was genuine and appropriate.

Andy


User currently offlineDELTAJFK From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 16 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 28605 times:

Its already all over the news. Today Show Etc.
also saw that when he cleared an Aeromexico plane for take off he said adios   


User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9153 posts, RR: 76
Reply 24, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 28522 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 16):
All a harmless bit of fun - nothing to get worked up about as long as the controller was plugged in the whole time - its all good.

That maybe the case, ATC would be the first to report you if it was a kid making a transmission on the other end of the radio.

Our industry unfortunately no longer has room for "harmless bit of fun", the fun police (lawyers) saw to that.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
25 Post contains links and images BlueElephant : http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/35684506#35684506 NBC reporters compare this with an Aeroflot crash in which a pilot gave his kids control of
26 Mir : He was giving the position and hold instructions to each aircraft. -Mir
27 pilotdude09 : What and you've never made a mistake or a wrong judgment in your line of work?? Everyone makes mistakes........get over it. To me this was harmless.
28 Post contains images Mir : There is a difference between separating aircraft and talking to aircraft. Someone who does one is not necessarily doing the other, as was the case h
29 contrails : When I heard on the radio this morning that a child had issued instructions to pilots from a control tower I thought it must have been in some country
30 redflyer : I'm really stunned at the number of people standing up for the kid and the controller. This was a really stupid move. And whether or not safety was at
31 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Are there even anymore flights out of Macon, Georgia anymore? .....I know DL was ending flights there back in 2008 when I stayed in Macon for about a
32 glideslope : I listened to this live that day. The aircrews were having fun for a change. I've never heard so many happy "see ya's" out of JFK. Had a smile on my f
33 Post contains images deltaguy767 : Nobody is condoning the behavior of the controller here, as others have said it was a stupid move but at the end of the day no harm was done. I don't
34 WPIAeroGuy : I first took the controls of a 152 when I was 7. I had a very experienced pilot right there and I made a few easy turns and that was that. It was noth
35 lukeyboy95 : Its really good to see a humanised sense of humour down on the ground... enthusiastic pilots etc. I feel bad for the kid - what seemed like an innocen
36 Post contains images mauiman31 : And in our media obsessed, litigious, over-reactive society here in the US -- what dream world were these folks living in that they thought this woul
37 redflyer : I don't necessarily think the guy should lose his job over this incident; however, unlike others I don't chalk this up to an "it's just a little fun
38 Post contains images SPREE34 : Please reference the specific Order that you believe states this. Absolutely. A little stress relief in a stressful game. NOT even close. A kid with
39 EGPH : Just my two cents after listening the the audio on YouTube. I am very surprised the pilots accepted clearances from a kid. Call me a fun killer but ha
40 sandyb123 : This reminds me of when I was a kid when I was taken into the railway signal box at York, England. I was allowed to set signals, level crossings, junc
41 DenverDanny : I don't believe that because no harm was done, it's ok. Could be an indication that attention is not on the job at the tower. Certainly is a distracti
42 SVO767 : I wish I could be that kid. He didn't have to go into the military, AT-CTI or go through the FAA hiring process to do my dream job.[Edited 2010-03-03
43 Giancavia : I love the "adios" for Aeromexico lol and the pilot she says it back.
44 MSYPI7185 : I agree with the above, however I have my concerns. Here is a what if and I know we can do this all day long, but just a thought. I have a scanner/ra
45 September11 : Was it a job shadowing day for the boy?
46 Post contains images DashTrash : I'll self disclose I only read 5 or 6 replies, but all seemed negative towards the offending controller and situation. Let's get a grip guys. If this
47 JFKLGANYC : It's all good and fun . . . what a joke you guys are making out of this. Guess what? Our age of innocence ended on 9/11. The days of fun and jokes lik
48 Post contains links chris7217 : Read the radio traffic here: http://www.avherald.com/h?article=4281b0e5&opt=0
49 futurepilot16 : Just saw a guy on MSNBC reacting as thought the Controller went and had a beer while his son was directing traffic. The pilots didn't seem to have a
50 DWController : I agree that letting the child talk on the radio is wrong but i'm confused by this statement. I'm an AT-CTI graduate waiting to get hired by the FAA
51 797 : I can't believe how much deal you guys are making out of this. I see it as a refreshing note for a stressful environment, that's all. The kid's voice
52 MSYPI7185 : Not the same at all, you are comparing apples and oranges. But if you were to get on the mike and give instructions to flight crews whether you were
53 RJ111 : You reckon? I see no difference. Cleared for Takeoff is a huge authorisation and the runway and taxiways are can be very dangerous areas. As this is
54 DWController : I agree with you but my problem is that the post i originally quoted says a violation occurred by even letting the child up there which i strongly di
55 PlanesNTrains : Well, my thought was on if it's possible for someone not in an ATC facility to transmit commands to an aircraft, as a prank or otherwise? That's why
56 WestWing : I am inclined to believe that the JBU171 crew knew ahead of time that the controller had his kid with him, because the JetBlue pilot jokingly asks "Ca
57 FX1816 : I understand the need for safety but it's a severe over reaction to compare this to the Aeroflot A310 where the pilot let his kid fly the plane. Maki
58 FX1816 : It came from the local FOX website, if you click the link it's like the last line or so. It really is very different, infact apples to oranges. I ass
59 Mastermis : My 2 cents ... This guy should be sacked! With all that is going on ; PAX have to virtually strip naked at security checkpoints, have pat downs, no li
60 NIKV69 : Bad move. Put the pilot who really should have not taken that command from a kid and asked for a readback from ATC. Not very bright. Should he lose hi
61 USAir330 : To all of you that think the controller should be fired or punished, yaw are more ridiculous than the media. Like you never wanted to show your kid wh
62 Post contains links ouboy79 : Shocked it took this long to come out. This: http://liveatc-archive.s3.amazonaws.com/new-kjfk-controller.mp3 ...was out middle of last month. My opini
63 Boeing1970 : Towers aren't "sterile" for starters. Second, while it was probably a dumb move, the controller was handling departures only, so the work load was mi
64 USAir330 : Im so glad you put that link up!!!! Obviously the father was in COMPLETE control. You even hear one of the pilots say they wish they can bring there
65 USAirways787 : Congrats media for blowing it out of proportion. Putting more people into the streets for more media views. USAirways787
66 PlanesNTrains : I can't say that I prescribe to your particular viewpoint, and I don't think most here who disagree deserve to receive your insult. I don't think mos
67 BWI757 : When this was aired on WBAL this morning, the ALSO included a clip where the controller is ANNOUNCING over the frequency that a kid is about to get on
68 PlanesNTrains : I think that's a key part of the story that was missing, but seemed to be apparent to at least the JetBlue guy. The other key part is who knew this w
69 ManuCH : If I receive a command from ATC, I assume that it is legitimate, especially if it's a command that makes sense in the current chain of events. If I n
70 tvnwz : Reminds me of the button pushing scene in WAR GAMES. But, did the kid do a good job??
71 PlanesNTrains : I questioned earlier if it was possible for someone off-site to transmit fake clearances, etc on the appropriate frequency as a prank. In this case,
72 RJ111 : I assume you are not a pilot?? The kid did not just randomly play around with the controls, I'm pretty sure that his dad told him what to do. I assum
73 FlyMIA : I do not see a huge problem. It was not like he was giving vectors or taxi clearances. Sure it was wrong and there should be some punishment a week no
74 PlanesNTrains : The only thing I could imagine would be in incorrect instruction/readback that was not caught due to a distraction within the control tower ("Hey Joe
75 NIKV69 : There are rules and protocol and he broke them. There has to be a punishment. Should a surgeon bring his kid to the operating room and hand him the s
76 FX1816 : Hey I'm no bickering "ATCer", I love my job. Besides the people on here are not ATC people that are criticizing this. FX1816
77 Post contains images FX1816 : You read any of my responses??? Nice generalization and good reading too. FX1816
78 FX1816 : Actually yes I am but only for leisure since I'm a controller. Your argument really has no basis since the SU A310 and this incident are completely d
79 Post contains images FlyDeltaJets87 : If this kid was in China, wouldn't he be getting ready for retirement at his age? No and that's why I used it as an example (Macon still has a control
80 DeltaRules : The guy who was famous for the video featuring "Jesus, jetBlue..." and "You guys should come up here sometime, you'd love it?" It sounds like the sam
81 borism : I think we can end this thread on this note - if it comes from FOX it must be equal to real FAR! What amazes me is that it took 2 weeks for media shi
82 RJ111 : Well thanks for choosing to be patronising instead of attempting to explain how these incidents are completely different.
83 Post contains images readytotaxi : Hey, love that guy, puts a human face on things. Play it often.
84 readytotaxi : Sounds on the money.
85 Post contains images BN747 : the problem would have been if the pilot didn't kn A great deal of perspective is lacking here... as 'cute' as it was (and innocuous), the point is a
86 javibi : Completely blown out of proportion. Hopefully the ATC guys do not get punished for this. A bit of fun and "human touch" if you like is very welcome in
87 marcus : On the news here in MEX they are saying a kid was "controlling" air traffic and that there is an investigation to see if the AM flight on approach was
88 707lvr : Jeez - it took 21 posts before any sense was applied to this topic! I can't believe anyone associated with aviation would think it was "cute" or "harm
89 Post contains images usa330300 : the problem would have been if the pilot didn't kn A great deal of perspective is lacking here... as 'cute' as it was (and innocuous), the point is a
90 usa330300 : There certainly needs to be an investigation and firings/suspensions. This is not something cute in the least bit. Peoples' lives are on the line, and
91 javibi : If you started a poll, I bet that a huge majority of pilots and controllers think it is cute and harmless, just the opposite you think. And no harm w
92 cuban8 : Well, according to me there is a BIG difference between both events!!! I agree with you that both cases might lead to dangerous situations (which it
93 Post contains images soon7x7 : LOL... I hardly think the ATC crew were all out at the coffee truck while this child was left alone to issue commands to active aircraft. This child m
94 Av8tor : I have never experienced so many uptight people in my life! As a JetBlue pilot who flies out of JFK reguIarly and who has countless experiences workin
95 Post contains images soon7x7 : Well put...nothing remains to be said...slow news is no news...
96 EA CO AS : Everyone is making good points, but frankly the last one above - from redflyer - is really the ultimate issue to be discussed. Regardless of whether
97 Flighty : Nobody is arguing it was unsafe what happened. For a one time laugh it's likely to work out OK. But this is not the place to play games IMO. That's a
98 FX1816 : Hardly was I patronising you but to the matter at hand. In the SU incident the kid was at the controls of the aircraft whereas in this situation the
99 Post contains images CaliAtenza : hehe i just listened to the audio clip..the kid sounds adorable . He even said "Adios Amigo" to the MEX flight for departure.
100 Post contains images AAEXP : I hope the kid in question grows up to be a top notch aviation professional and lives out his dream in real life
101 AncientPelican : Kind of reminds me of when I "flew" a passenger carrying commercial airliner over Baltimore when I was 10. I was sitting in the captain's seat with my
102 ThirtyEcho : The kid seems to be quite good at the job. That said, the controller should get a "Don't ever do this again." verbal reprimand from his supervisor and
103 eugdog : I am not sure what to make of it. I thought it was charming that the pilots acknowledged the replies with great enthusiasm but I think this sets a ve
104 rafaelyyz : A lot of commands could "make sense in the current chain of events" but can lead you to trouble if you don't have your head about you. Witness the 19
105 ArcrftLvr : Anywhere I can obtain the entire recording? I know LiveATC.net, but I'm not sure of the date or time.
106 RJ111 : Both were being told what to do! This is my point. Both were also at the controls of their respective father's profession and both had an able profes
107 Oshkosh1 : People are making a mountain out of a molehill here...I'm quite sure the contoller was in "control"...as suggested before, a dual headset was likely u
108 TheCol : We all know this is a one strike industry. Strict adherence to procedures is necessary in order to strive for 100% safety. Do I think this guy should
109 eugdog : I think I would agree with you here. Not a firing offense but a serious disciplinary sanction should be considered. But given the lack of concern fro
110 Post contains links and images FatmirJusufi : Does Liveatc have the entire database of recordings? Here's the entire recording I think http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G5xV_N8N1U
111 Post contains images FX1816 : Ok, sounds good to me then, I don't have the time to continue bantering back and forth, I see it one way with my experience and you see it another wa
112 WJ : This is pretty touchy. Although it didn't hurt anyone, I don't know how anyone cannot take this seriously. It's ironic this comes out the day that Sul
113 Post contains images RJ111 : I must say thought he ATC chap is a lot dafter because he's broadcasting his DIY apprenticeship to the whole world whereas a pilot Pre-9/11 at least
114 bkircher : I love how people are taking this out of porpotion. As stated earlier, he was probably instructed what to say first then he would broadcast it. I thin
115 FX1816 : I guess this just doesn't translate into American English for me or I'm just really tired from the lack of sleep. FX1816
116 SPREE34 : I can't understand why you don't. You apparently have never been into an ATC facility. Who told you it was a "Sterile Environment"? You say "Disgrace
117 cuban8 : The really bad thing about this story is that it came out to the public; giving a lot of bad publicity to aviation. Unfortunately, the authorities wil
118 Maverick623 : The "contact departure" call was benign, but clearing a plane for takeoff is serious business. Not to mention I find serious faults with flight crews
119 wolflair : This has been blown out of proportion now. Let's put things into perspective (again): Shortly after the ATC allows the Aeromexico into position and ho
120 scbriml : Frankly, I'm astonished how many people think this was OK. In a profession that requires the highest imaginable levels of good judgement, at least two
121 Maverick623 : I don't care if it makes people "feel good". You don't put a kid at the helm of the busiest airspace in the country. Remember the Russian pilot some
122 Mir : I'd say he did, yes. If we're going to talk about not being silly, how about not comparing apples to oranges? A more analogous question would be "sho
123 AndyinPIT : I'm not fully checked out at my facility...so should I not be allowed to talk to planes? You haven't read any of the posts before posting that, did y
124 wolflair : Sometimes good judgement requires seeing the whole picture. In my experience dealing with regulators and a number of customers in the industry I work
125 Maverick623 : Oh, I dunno. Classroom training? Studying the rulebook? Knowing FAA and FCC regs? Maybe you should read before you post. Had this been some Class D a
126 Post contains images Mir : He didn't. I don't know how many times we have to keep saying this. -Mir
127 DWController : Just heard from an FAA tower controller that all tower tours have been suspended, can anyone confirm / deny.
128 contrails15 : I don't think this will cost anyone there jobs. Suspension for sure but they are so few qualified to work towers like JFK I don't see them throwing th
129 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : I was actually thinking about that one earlier today. I used to listen to that one (and watch the simulation) just for an interesting few minutes of
130 oa260 : Shouldnt have happened but the kid did do a good job . Maybe one day he will be an ATC
131 Maverick623 : Who actually issued the instructions over the radio?
132 AndyinPIT : The tower airpsace is actually a pretty small piece of that puzzle, but, as to avoid getting in a pissing match with you, sure I agree. And I'm glad
133 Mir : I think it's a very safe bet that the kid said nothing without being prompted to. So unless the controller was in a rush to get people out (at which
134 p3orion : Did I miss some training? What are you talking about? The child was "parroting" the controller. Developemental's do it all the time when they first s
135 Post contains images AndyinPIT : Pushing the button on your handset?
136 Post contains images CharlieNoble : Being a father I can COMPLETLEY see why the controller would want to do this. Unfortunately it's the kind of thing that can turn into "grabass" before
137 johnboy : I agree completely. I think it's humorous that the people who think this was no big deal say in the same breath that they'd never let their kid do it
138 MSPNWA : It wasn't a wise thing to do, but as usual the media is completely blowing this out of proportion. It's sad to see them do that everytime something ne
139 c5load : If somebody hadn't disclosed that this was a kid, it could've come across as just some high-pitched trainee who was under supervision, and no one woul
140 JoePatroni : Very interesing discussion going on here. While I totally agree that this is being blown completely out of proportion and this controller is probably
141 contrails15 : It was a bad choice in judgement. The only problem I have with this is that its unprofessional. Lives were not a stake here. The controller should be
142 Post contains images B757LVR : msnbc reporting that "...air traffic controller lets kid run the show." Really?? Is that what really happened? These guys in the media are really stre
143 p3orion : A lot of people are saying this controller is unprofessional. I do not agree with that. Being unprofessional is yelling at pilots or using bad phrase
144 PlanesNTrains : Well, I can only speak for myself, but if I am going under for a procedure, I want to know that 100% of the focus is on me. If I found out later that
145 Mir : The kid did. Now how does that equate to him being at the helm of the airspace? I'm not a controller, and I don't have a kid, but I have let my young
146 MtnWest1979 : Well MCN still has scheduled Carvans to ATL via LW.
147 Flighty : Lives are never "at stake" with simple events. Everything has redundancy. The point is it is unprofessional to start taxing the redundancies just for
148 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : Well, what is "professionalism"? If having your kid read back instructions to aircraft at JFK is "professional" then I really wonder at which point y
149 jflchantha : What if this were someone older? I def feel it was ok and people are taking it over the top and yes the controllers were there and it was only one air
150 peterjohns : Well Guys, I am a controller, and I have a kid. I work at FRA. What happened is a very easy mistake to make. I am often tempted to let a visitor say s
151 Highflier92660 : No doubt there will be some obligatory head shaking, indignation and perhaps a temporary FAA imposed suspension for the ATC dad, but darn it was cute.
152 Post contains images TristarAtLCA : I don't think anyone can argue it was professional conduct from the father but I struggle to define what happened as dangerous. There must have been a
153 NIKV69 : If the child sat there and didn't know what tool was what as time went by and the nesthesiologist kept pumping and pumping then what? I am not saying
154 SPREE34 : Who cares? The ATIS is transmitted by a robot. This is a non event folks.
155 live2fly83 : ok, as long as the guy has a clean record-reprimand him and let him back to the tower on probation but imagine if the child cleared jetBlue and they w
156 SPREE34 : Do you believe a Pilot Deviation should be pursued? Don't tell Fox,NBC,etc, they will have JetBlue grounded in 2 days.
157 Post contains images USAir330 : You're right there are rules and protocol for a reason. And I agree maybe he should receive a week suspension. But don't compare it to surgery. Befor
158 LAradar : Don't you remember when the pilot of a European commercial airliner let his kid sit at the controls at cruise altitude and then the plane crashed and
159 sancho99504 : Why don't we fire baggage handlers who put connection bags on the wrong aircraft? Or fire the guy who put 400lbs over the requested amount of fuel? W
160 Post contains images PC12Fan : I cannot for the life of me understand why this is getting the coverage it has. I've never been a fan of the media when it comes to coverage in aviati
161 goldenshield : I'm not sure if anyone noticed (I haven't read all off the replies yet), but judging by how the controller sounds, I'm assuming this is the guy who we
162 PC12Fan : Comparing apples to oranges. No where near the comparison you're trying to make it out to be.
163 Post contains images N766UA : Not news. The controller was right there, headset on, plugged into the override. I hope the agency doesn't try to hang this guy over this. Are you ser
164 Oshkosh1 : Fire the father immediately, (I'm sure McDonalds needs someone with good communication skills)...take the kid down to the nearest pier and keel haul h
165 p3orion : When I was a controller in the Navy, at NHZ, I allowed my fiance to clear a P3 to land. I suppose I should've been flogged and then thrown in the Brig
166 Oshkosh1 : The DAD at least gave a $@it enough about his son to actually spend time with him, take him to work, and BE A FATHER...Probably more than I can say fo
167 FlyDeltaJets87 : Here's the problem though and it's something we're reminded of constantly in the military (and this isn't directed at just but all who share your opi
168 N766UA : If people knew real reality, I guarantee they'd forget this nonsense story immediately. A kid making 5 radio calls is the least of the agency's conce
169 Post contains images DUALRATED : I totally get why its a big deal, and why it was probably not the smartest things to do, however I think the point has been made by the FAA, which wi
170 BlatantEcho : You guys all sound like a bunch of Nancys, my god. Everyone can sit at home and make their judgment about something they had nothing to do with. Hoora
171 Post contains images N766UA : Hey, don't make it look like I said that! And it's sad that they're now going to crack down on this. I think a lot of parent controllers have enjoyed
172 Oshkosh1 : EXACTLY my point...I'm relatively new to this site...but I gather that some here spend more time on their computers playing "pilot"(or controller), a
173 p3orion : I have been told, by more than one person on Airliners, that just because I was a controller does not mean I know about ATC. Don't you just love it.
174 Ltbewr : As I suggested, this boy was someone who was not authorized by FAA or Homeland Security law to be there in itself. We do not want anyone without the
175 p3orion : What? You ever hear of a tour? The boy was a child of a JFK controller. Homeland Security has ZERO to say about this. But hey, I'm just a controller,
176 N766UA : You clearly don't know what you're talking about. I guarantee you this kid was authorized to be there, probably with weeks of notice, by the tower ch
177 Post contains images EA CO AS : Playing Devil's Advocate here, but what if it were a surgeon who brought his kid to work and let him perform the initial incision? I mean, he was ins
178 Post contains images OB1504 : As an intern in gate control at a major international airport, I was once given the chance to clear an inbound aircraft to its gate. Even I knew it w
179 sasd209 : If anyone wants to bring up the archives, a pilot just told the tower (JFK) he thinks of the ATC controller: "the guy is a hero for spending time with
180 N766UA : I disagree. Poor judgment would be to go on break and leave his kid in charge. Clearly this didn't happen. Hell, that kid did a great job, too! The l
181 Post contains links and images andrewuber : I haven't read the entire thread to see if anyone mentioned it, but kids and aviation don't go too well together: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroflo
182 canoecarrier : I think the FAA response is ridiculous. There was never a safety issue here. I worked at a regional airport with an ATC controller that could recite t
183 N766UA : But it wasn't! You really think a 10 year old, touring work with his dad, is more dangerous and distracting than an errant trainee, or a group of col
184 PC12Fan : Good post, and I agree with what you are saying. The thing is.... And there you have it. If the media took the responsible path of educating accuraci
185 PC12Fan : Again, apples to oranges. If it's that simple, please explain to us what the distraction was. Clearly it wasn't with the controllers or the pilots. A
186 N766UA : I agree 100%. They'd also be out of a job! Unfortunately, we live in a world full of reactionaries who love a good sensationalized story to really ge
187 PlanesNTrains : Well, as a member of this site, I hope you're not implying that those of us who aren't controllers should put our opinions away. I think most of us r
188 WestWing : From the media frenzy in reporting the story today has emerged one additional newish report that the controller's 8-year-old daughter was also allowed
189 N766UA : Agreed, and I think your post is perfectly reasonable. The thing that bothers me, though, is when I hear "This WAS dangerous. There WERE lives at ris
190 andrewuber : So you really don't think this caused ANY distraction at all??? I should have been more specific - Let's be clear - I'm NOT suggesting that the media
191 Oshkosh1 : As a kid, I used to ride my bike to the base of the local(KCYS) tower. There was an intercom there, and I would politely ask if I could come up and wa
192 moose135 : No, not really. While I've never been through training for air traffic control, I assume that before a trainee talks to live traffic, he has received
193 N766UA : Does anyone who's taking a swipe at this poor controller know the rules? Anyone have a 7110 sitting on their bedside table?
194 PC12Fan : Nope. We wouldn't have known this even happened if it weren't for the media. After bending to the all knowing media. Very much agreed.
195 gunsontheroof : Seems like this is the hot topic of discussion around the cockpit water coolers today...I was listening to the SEA tower stream on liveatc earlier tod
196 Oshkosh1 : Opinion is the operative word...SOME here seem to be a little to "preachy", and tend to be unable(or unwilling) to discern fact, from fiction. Not ne
197 Mir : Obviously, it's dependent on the surgeon making sure that the kid could handle whatever task he wanted him to do. If he's not going to be able to han
198 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : Yep, I think we can agree. True. Of course, the same could be said for Watergate, stained blue dresses, etc. I'll just have to defer to your experien
199 Oshkosh1 : Happened to me when my kids were in the right seat all the time...and the ex, WAS the management...now THATS tough llmao!![Edited 2010-03-03 19:33:28
200 N766UA : If it's possible to differentiate the two anymore, at least those stories were broken by reputable news sources. This was local news, which is barely
201 Post contains images Oshkosh1 :
202 USAir330 : If you listen to liveatc.net sounds like the father is in the tower right now lol.
203 WESTERN737800 : As far as I'm concerend nothing wrong happened here. My dad is an airplane mechanic and I went to work with him as a little kid, largly because of th
204 corksta : I actually listened to this live through the LiveATC app on my iPhone. I had literally just tuned in just before it started, and I wondered what the h
205 Mir : Okay. Supposedly. It's the government, so one never knows what the quality of the training is. And, if the postings of several pilots and controllers
206 rafaelyyz : Excellent comment and that's exactly the point. I would add that stories like this are not what this industry needs at the moment. Why add more stres
207 nycbased : I think that this IS a smart boy...learned what his father does everyday...learned key terminology...was coached by his father...It's not like some st
208 Mir : Just out of curiosity, what sort of stories does this industry need at the moment? -Mir
209 Maverick623 : And that's all good and well..... I just find fault with doing it at JFK.
210 Post contains images soon7x7 : Fist fights by flight attendents are fairly amuzing...
211 Oshkosh1 : Bad move...they're PAX... Rule #1 of command(as in Pilot In Command)...is to COMMAND!!! Opinions, debate, discussion with the crew/staff is encourage
212 Mir : "Cleared for takeoff" means the same thing at JFK as it does at any other airport. I understand your point, though I respectfully disagree. I don't w
213 FX1816 : I agree with you 100%!!! Not completely, at my facility there is one simulator but it is not in use as we don't have staffing for it so it's straight
214 Maverick623 : Indeed it does, however 60 aircraft per hour is a lot different than 15.
215 Post contains images FlyDeltaJets87 : Save it for Non-Av. Thanks. Especially when the New York airspace is one of the most stressed out systems as it is. How often do you have ATC delays
216 jhooper : Probably not the wisest thing to do given the PR impact; JFK tower is a 'high-vis' operation. But... Was safety of flight compromised? No. Should he l
217 live2fly83 : your missing the point, the child is not licensed nor trained and therefore shouldnt have been able to interject in anyway again, imagine if the chil
218 live2fly83 : give the flying public a choice and I bet a good majority would vote to have their controllers free of distraction and no children (or non essential p
219 Sankaps : A typical xenophobic, America-centric view. JFK is used by many foreign airlines. The kid's delivery was not all that clear, especially for those les
220 Post contains images slinky09 : Agree - I find it inconceivably stupid for people to behave like this and then for many to laugh it off as harmless.
221 RJ111 : I think we all agree that this probably didn't compromise safety. But the fact that this thread has made it over 200 pages suggests that regardless, i
222 SPREE34 : You speak the truth. Unfortunately, nobody is interested in the truth. Yep. I love all of the ones saying "Regulation, Law, Procedure, Sterile Area",
223 SPREE34 : Where are you a Controller? L, K, Swanwick, other?
224 sprout5199 : This is SO blown out out of proportion. The compairsion to a surgen is wrong. What if the father was an mech. and working on an engine and let the kid
225 jcf5002 : For me, here's the bottom line. I think its pretty clear at this point that most of the people who have posted against the controller have never exper
226 FX1816 : Yes because if the kid gave a clearance without being told to from his father and the pilots began their take off roll, the other controllers and the
227 B757LVR : Thanks for that perspective, many are just calling for this controller and his supervisors head, complete HYSTERIA has taken over this story apparent
228 JFKLGANYC : "A typical xenophobic, America-centric view" Actually, in NYC there is outrage over this. It is the lead story on very newscast and would be front pag
229 Kaiarahi : How did the kid get into the cab anyway? Is there no security at JFK?
230 N766UA : None whatsoever! In fact, if we dig deep enough, I bet we find the kid was linked to Al Qaeda. Sheesh. It's called a tour, which, up until today, was
231 FX1816 : Yeah a typical knee-jerk reaction to the whole thing!!! To the person who questioned why some of us on here would state that this was not a big deal
232 MarkTPA : The thing is, the kid sounds like he was doing a better job than most of the controllers in CLE on a daily basis
233 CaliAtenza : Its not even on the NY Times's website's front page...i had to go into the NY section then look to the side...
234 707lvr : I do hope this was meant sarcastically, though I have an awful fear it was not. "Professional" eight-year-olds directing traffic at JFK. Somebody sho
235 Kaiarahi : Yeah, and until 9/11 kids regularly went on tours into the cockpit during flight. I often used to jumpseat across the Atlantic. Things changed.
236 san747 : How many times does it have to be clarified? The kid wasn't directing traffic, he was parroting what his father (who was present in the room, plugged
237 TWAMD-80 : Yeah seriously, it's a complete knee-jerk reaction. Considering it's the FAA, that's not a shocker. I suppose I won't get to visit the tower at my ba
238 Flighty : What if a policeman said "go out there, son, get those people out of their car and arrest them. Daddy is watching so it's OK." Get real, people
239 Post contains images contrails15 : I can't believe this is still going on. In my talks at work today from pilots, to tech ops guys, ops people and even couple buddies in the P.A here at
240 Post contains links Mir : Listen very carefully to the pilot in this clip - he's got the right idea: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...04251#35704251 Well, if you listen t
241 N766UA : Things changed because 3,000 people died, not because a kid made a radio transmission.
242 N766UA : Agreed. Your analogy isn't even close. I guess it's proof, though, that no matter how many pilots, controllers, and people in the business say it was
243 RJ111 : How can you claim anyone but himself put him in the hot-seat? The reason people are saying this was unprofessional (and it was unprofessional) is bec
244 Post contains images SPREE34 : Go figure. Outrage in NYC. Did you think about this at all before you posed it? I vote that senseless post of the hour. This would be more like the c
245 Kaiarahi : I'd care that he was in the car of an on-duty cop in the first place. He's not a cop and in many situations he's going to impede his father's ability
246 Kaiarahi : OK - so security is in place and enforced for pilots, pax, airside workers, etc., but ATC are free to ignore it whenever they feel like bringing famil
247 SPREE34 : The entrance is not in the airside of the terminal. The above does not apply. Did you have any fun as a kid?
248 B757LVR : I am listening to JFK tower right now and have heard a few pilots switching over to departure saying "adios" ! I love it..some of these guys are showi
249 FX1816 : And rightly so, his actions caused the death of the people on the plane and helicopter because he wasn't paying attention at all. Since you are NOT a
250 Kaiarahi : No, I'm not a controller. So let's put this in my context. Suppose I'm defending you in court. I show up one day when I'm supposed to cross-examine t
251 peterjohns : Hello to all readers again! I had posted my opinion in post 150- but have to write again. Who are you people seeing evil in the controllers doing? Wan
252 AndyinPIT : People would be shocked at how things actually work in towers/tracons/centers. Everyone seems to think we're nose to the glass for 8 hours, sweat drip
253 Kaiarahi : Such an open mind ... you stay away from my courthouse too. We lawyers know what is best for you, so don't comment on my work even if you're my clien
254 FX1816 : That's a terrible example. What you should have said was that you had your daughter cross examine the witness with your assistance. That would make m
255 SPREE34 : You might want to take a look at the NTSB report on that one. Neither aircraft was RADAR identified or participating in ATC services at the time of t
256 WestWing : Uh-oh. That's going to give the media something more to foam at the mouth about. Expect 24x7 news coverage: "At one of the busiest airports in the wo
257 HAWK21M : Its ok to take your Kids to work,but its not ok to get your kids to do your work. regds MEL.
258 SPREE34 : I love it! And, not far fetched at all. "Film at eleven."
259 Post contains images AAEXP : Sounds like some secret chamber of odd-fellows.......
260 FX1816 : Oh I did not know that. I had heard that they were receiving flight following and thus should have had a traffic call but I guess if they were not ra
261 Mir : There was stuff he could have done, but it's very debatable as to whether it would have had any effect. -Mir
262 FX1816 : Yeah if both of them or at least one was on his frequency he could have called traffic or if either was monitoring 121.5 on their aircraft he could h
263 spacecadet : Rules are rules. What would you consider a fireable offense? Purposely directing two airplanes into each other? Anything short of that just demands a
264 Mir : That, or alerted EWR (whose jurisdiction the aircraft were in) about it. Like I said, it's no sure thing that doing either of those would have preven
265 FX1816 : Please show me where it says he "should" be fired for this. Is it in the 7110.65??? If you read some of the posts between myself and Spree just befor
266 PC12Fan : Oh for God's sake, would you think about what you're going to say before you say it?! What's the saying? Better to have people think you are a fool t
267 peterjohns : I don´t quite get what you mean? When working in ATC one often hears things not meant for the public. For instance a low on fuel call. Now that mean
268 Mir : US law is different on this subject. It's not nearly as restrictive. -Mir
269 N766UA : Not so in the US. It's perfectly legal to have a scanner and listen to pretty much anything on it, so long as it's unmodified.
270 ATCGOD : I have no idea why I'm posting this, but your analogy is completely ridiculous. First off, everyone of the older people I work with at BOI say they h
271 contrails15 : I wonder what Boston John has to say about this????
272 Post contains images SPREE34 : Actually, that is the correct way to sequence the Finals. You turn the Downwind guy directly at the other guy on Final. Yes, I am serious. If you kne
273 Post contains images soon7x7 : Exactly...not like the controllers were out at the coffee truck while these kids were running amuck...JFK has some of the most well seasoned ATC's in
274 FX1816 : Umm you're preaching to the choir on this one since all I told spacecadet was that it wasn't the controllers fault in the mid-air in NY if they were
275 757luver : For all the ones who are saying they don't see any harm in this, why not just go ahead and let the little fellow fly the planes next time. ATC is in m
276 peterjohns : I suppose everything has been said about this and everyone has made their point. Luckily it seems the majority think the controller should be allowed
277 WESTERN737800 : [quote=757luver,reply=275]For all the ones who are saying they don't see any harm in this, why not just go ahead and let the little fellow fly the pla
278 Post contains images soon7x7 : I did not fly it, I taxiid the thing, taxis like anything else...been flying for 23 years...my guess is you would rather have a go at it rather than
279 SPREE34 : How about you come up with a reasonable comparison. Had this been in a cockpit vs the tower, it would have been the same thing. Pilot hands kid mic,
280 Post contains images peterjohns : Was just making up what the tabloids would make of it!!... Your guess is correct
281 gr8circle : Got in a bit late and don't have the energy to read all the 280 odd replies to this thread, so don't know what opinions people generally have on this
282 peterjohns : You should take the time to read the opinions more closely. Nobody´s suggesting to let Kids do ATC anywhere in the world. A lot of A.netters (and me
283 Kaiarahi : Preceded by several hours of ground school and, at least in Canada, the student passing the test for a radio licence. But what would I know - I'm not
284 FX1816 : Wow how open minded you are. Us (the controllers) on here are giving our points of view and facts based on our knowledge of the job and why this whol
285 Kaiarahi : Thank you for making my point so eloquently.[Edited 2010-03-06 10:04:34]
286 N766UA : Questions and comments are always welcome. And you know where WAS the best place for those questions and comments? On a tour of an air traffic facili
287 goldenshield : In the U.S., ground school is not required to start lessons in an aircraft. It's only required if you want a structured classroom environment to pass
288 Post contains images peterjohns : Your right , kids do not have radio licences. But they have an open mind and a voice. Some people forget that they used to be ten years old... Have y
289 DiamondFlyer : Ground school, as in a formalized classroom training, is never required for a pilot certificate. All you have to do is convince an instructor that yo
290 Post contains images goldenshield : I only said it was required IF the student wanted a structured classroom environment. And that's a big IF (i.e., books confuse the person.) My, how t
291 Kaiarahi : Thanks - I'd look forward to that. As far as I know, the next time through FRA will be June, on my way to visit parents-in-law in Geilenkirchen.
292 DiamondFlyer : Just went up $50 this month. FAA decided that they needed to add that price to the previous $100, in order to ensure better proctors at the testing s
293 Post contains images Mir : Not a fair comparison, as has been explained MANY times in the thread. This New Yorker isn't putting JFK on any sort of pedestal. It's no different f
294 PC12Fan : Or just let that same little fellow pass on information from you on that CB. Yes, two much different scenarios but the point is very much the same.
295 Maverick623 : That was me who made said that earlier in the thread, and I didn't quite mean it like that. Let me clarify: I used the stats from airnav.com for dail
296 Aerosol : I wonder how many of the people here who say how many lives were in danger or how distracted the ATC was use their cell phone while driving....
297 SPREE34 : Now you're talking dangerous! Or how about this, how many of those cars have KIDS in them. OMG! KIDS in cars. Someone could get hurt. What if the kid
298 WESTERN737800 : I'm sure the controller and his supervisor are two of the best in the industry. In crowded airspace like New York great controllers are a necessity to
299 rafaelyyz : If something had gone wrong however, would the investigative authority (NTSB or whoever) ignore the kid because, as you say, the controller was in con
300 Mir : Only position and hold in this case. This was a takeoff-only runway, no crossings required. The only three things needed are "cleared for takeoff", "
301 soon7x7 : What is more amazing about this story is that it generated 301 responses in the forum...
302 c5load : Mods, can we make a second part for this for some of us that don't have the fastest servers?
303 Maverick623 : Understood. I'm not looking for anybody to be crucified because of this, but it shouldn't have happened. I think that the dad understands this now, a
304 Post contains images FX1816 : Hey come on now, yeah they are great in NY but if you came to my facility you might change your mind. FX1816
305 757luver : And hopefully said student has at least had some training before going up for that first flight. Yeah I can agree with that one, but if and I say if
306 Post contains images cuban8 : Give me priority to a Lufthansa aircraft (for a change) will be more than enough
307 WESTERN737800 : I'm sure I would. There are great controllers all over the place, they've all been great to me. I'm pondering driving big rigs someday. I'm not sure
308 peterjohns : Give me priority to a Lufthansa aircraft (for a change) will be more than enough We honestly do not give LH priority. We work the sequence that gives
309 Kaiarahi : Understood. I don't think I've ever had an LH flight from DUS or CGN to FRA that hasn't had a hold.
310 757luver : I don't drive your typical truck and trailer, my line of work is considered specialized actually. I don't know where you are from but you might have
311 peterjohns : Clearly you don´t quite get my point. This is not about me and I didn´t get personal against anyone. I am against the comments suggesting to immead
312 Post contains links scbriml : Given the length of this thread, please continue discussion here: Boy Talks To Pilots At JFK - Part 2 (by scbriml Mar 7 2010 in Civil Aviation) Any po
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