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AMS: Pilot Arrested, Without License For 13 Years!  
User currently offlinekl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5195 posts, RR: 15
Posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 23867 times:

http://www.nu.nl/buitenland/2197443/...-vliegt-13-jaar-zonder-brevet.html

Dutch only, sorry.

A 41 year old Swedish co pilot was arrested at AMS yesterday when planning to fly to Ankara with 101 passengers. The man's license expired 13 years ago and was not valid for commercial jets anyway. He made a fake license himself it seams.

All those years he worked for airlines in Italy, The UK and Belgium.

[Edited 2010-03-03 05:57:36]

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSevernaya From Russia, joined Jan 2009, 1416 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 23640 times:

Pfff, 13 years! This guy is the better version of mr. Frank Abagnale Jr. 

He was to fly AMS-ESB according to the article. Yesterday two airlines were flying the route: TK and Corendon airlines.



Всяк глядит, да не всяк видит.
User currently offlineNWADC10LUVER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 23237 times:

GOOD JOB AMS! You are doing your job congratulations!

User currently offlineMSYPI7185 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 710 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 23196 times:

Is this a sequel to "Catch Me If You Can"?

Make being a co-pilot sound like being VP of the USA!   

I wonder who figured out is license was not valid and that the one in his possession is a fake?
Amazing that he worked in all these places and he was able to get away with it, make you wonder how often they really checkout these things.

MD


User currently offlineSevernaya From Russia, joined Jan 2009, 1416 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 22975 times:

So it was Corendon.

Quoting MSYPI7185 (Reply 3):
I wonder who figured out is license was not valid and that the one in his possession is a fake?

Even more interesting that the airline knew it as they had flown in a replacement co-pilot.  



Всяк глядит, да не всяк видит.
User currently offlinekl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5195 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 22869 times:

Quoting Severnaya (Reply 4):
Even more interesting that the airline knew it as they had flown in a replacement co-pilot.

The Swedish authorities found out and contacted the Dutch police. Before arresting the guy they did advise corendon to send a replacement pilot. ( Dutch police is too polite...)


User currently offlinefaro From Egypt, joined Aug 2007, 1556 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 22699 times:

Playing the devil's advocate here but he must have passed umpteen 6-monthly check rides with those airlines in 13 years. Unless he also falsified his type ratings, he may also have passed his type ratings "validly". I wonder how much of a real safety hazard he was with 13 years' line flying experience. Of course if he had little or no experience that would be a different matter...

Faro



The chalice not my son
User currently offlineBrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 985 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 22605 times:

Amazing story. Was he a captain or an F/O by the way?

Quoting kl911 (Reply 5):
Dutch police is too polite

I don't understand what you mean, please elaborate? What does this have to do with being polite?



Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
User currently offlineSevernaya From Russia, joined Jan 2009, 1416 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 22223 times:

Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 7):
Was he a captain or an F/O by the way?

F/O



Всяк глядит, да не всяк видит.
User currently offlinekl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5195 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 22043 times:

Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 7):
I don't understand what you mean, please elaborate? What does this have to do with being polite?

A bit off topic, but in general I find the Dutch police way to 'polite', like in accepting verbal and physical abuse and not hitting those who do it with a club on the head. I'm Dutch and have seen it a lot in Amsterdam and The Hague.

On-topic:

It was a co-pilot, having flown ten of thousands hours in the last 13 years, and somehow he always past all tests.
So i don't think anyone was in real danger, but still....

Do you think he flew for Corendon all the time? Would be nice to know which airlines he flew for in The UK, Belgium and Italy.


User currently offlineSevenHeavy From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 1156 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 21080 times:

Is it just me who's never heard of Corendon  

I'm clearly not the "spotter" I thought I was  



So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2432 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 21080 times:

Quoting faro (Reply 6):
I wonder how much of a real safety hazard he was with 13 years' line flying experience.

I am thinking no further risk compared to other pilots. It must be a lot of hours in his logbook. He's probably got more real world experience than most other pilots. But of course everyone must follow the rules.


User currently offline7673mech From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 731 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 20663 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 7):
I don't understand what you mean, please elaborate? What does this have to do with being polite?

They warned the airline so they could fly in another pilot.


User currently offlineSolarFlyer22 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Nov 2009, 1109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 20609 times:

I think something similar happened in India with pilots that had bribed for a legitimate license and received it. It was several dozen pilots too. Very scary stuff. Airlines need to check this upfront.

User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4451 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 19481 times:

Quoting SevenHeavy (Reply 10):
Is it just me who's never heard of Corendon

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paulo Santos - Azores Spotters


Corendon a Turkish charter company, started ops in 2004 with 2 734s. 2 more 737 added last year. My sister flew with them few years back to Eindhoven. It is your typical small fleet LCC.


User currently offlinemaxpower1954 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 1106 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 14267 times:

Back in the 1960s, an Eastern captain who was transitioning from the Lockheed Electra to the DC-9 got found out - the only pilot certificate he actually held was Private Pilot, single-engine land! He had been flying for EAL for over 15 years and was a highly regarded airman by the company and his peers.

Of course, he got fired (as my mother used to say, you can't buy publicity like that.) After a high-profile stint as a garbage man for the City of Miami, he got all of his ratings in something like six weeks, landed a job as a corporate pilot and vanished into history.


User currently offlineavt007 From Canada, joined Jul 2000, 2132 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 13260 times:

Competence is not the issue, rather integrity and character is. My doctor may not have killed me yet, but i'd be some upset to find out he was really a veterinarian.  

User currently offlineAV8orWALK From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 186 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 12012 times:

I think it has to do more with the mental stability of the guy trying to fly the plane (knowing he has no license) than the physical act of him flying the plane.

Cheers
Drew MCO



The safest place to be in an airplane crash is on the ground.
User currently offlineNavigator From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1213 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 11425 times:

Quoting faro (Reply 6):
Playing the devil's advocate here but he must have passed umpteen 6-monthly check rides with those airlines in 13 years. Unless he also falsified his type ratings, he may also have passed his type ratings "validly". I wonder how much of a real safety hazard he was with 13 years' line flying experience. Of course if he had little or no experience that would be a different matter...

The airlines involved say he is a good pilot and has done well on all tests. I think he should get a second chance after a proper grounding period and after passing the proper exams.



747-400/747-200/L1011/DC-10/DC-9/DC-8/MD-80/MD90/A340/A330/A300/A310/A321/A320/A319/767/757/737/727/HS-121/CV990/CV440/S
User currently offlinefaro From Egypt, joined Aug 2007, 1556 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 11311 times:

I think it has to do more with the mental stability of the guy trying to fly the plane (knowin

Quoting Navigator (Reply 18):
The airlines involved say he is a good pilot and has done well on all tests. I think he should get a second chance after a proper grounding period and after passing the proper exams.

  

Absolutely, perhaps with a little sit-down with a quack too.

Faro



The chalice not my son
User currently offlineNavigator From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1213 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 11259 times:

I would rather go with a skilled pilot without papers than with a pilot lacking skill and with all possible papers and exams... There is a debate about this out there after some pilot handling errors resulting in some recent crashes... But then again there is really no excuse for flying without proper documentation.


747-400/747-200/L1011/DC-10/DC-9/DC-8/MD-80/MD90/A340/A330/A300/A310/A321/A320/A319/767/757/737/727/HS-121/CV990/CV440/S
User currently offlineSevernaya From Russia, joined Jan 2009, 1416 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10209 times:

Quoting kl911 (Reply 9):
Would be nice to know which airlines he flew for in The UK, Belgium and Italy.

Luchtvaatrnieuws is reporting Air Sweden, Apollo Airlines, Air One en Jet2.com



Всяк глядит, да не всяк видит.
User currently offlineAAEXP From Brazil, joined Jul 2005, 424 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10065 times:

Quoting Navigator (Reply 18):
The airlines involved say he is a good pilot and has done well on all tests. I think he should get a second chance after a proper grounding period and after passing the proper exams.

Do airlines hire pilots with criminal convictions?


User currently offlinefaro From Egypt, joined Aug 2007, 1556 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 9407 times:

Quoting AAEXP (Reply 22):
Quoting Navigator (Reply 18):The airlines involved say he is a good pilot and has done well on all tests. I think he should get a second chance after a proper grounding period and after passing the proper exams.
Do airlines hire pilots with criminal convictions?

Very good point; probably that is a question of airline policy although in some countries it may be codified in law.

Faro



The chalice not my son
User currently offlinethrufru From Marshall Islands, joined Feb 2009, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 9045 times:

Quoting AAEXP (Reply 22):

Do airlines hire pilots with criminal convictions?

They do. I did something silly/stupid in college and as a result have a record. I've disclosed it at every airline interview I've had. After the laughter subsided, I was always offered the job. I'm often asked why I disclose it. Well, as minor as the infraction was, failure to disclose is grounds for termination.

Quoting avt007 (Reply 16):
Competence is not the issue, rather integrity and character is. My doctor may not have killed me yet, but i'd be some upset to find out he was really a veterinarian.

avt007 said it right. Interity and character are the issue.


25 Musang : In the UK any airside worker has to pass a Criminal Records Check. There is a list (several pages) of various offences which would preclude issuance
26 Post contains images PanHAM : [quote = MSYPI7185, la r as the Romans say, "pecunium non olet" (money does not stink) , so, he might get a pardon. Quite amazing that it took that lo
27 Post contains images AAEXP : Well, perhaps my question should have been, "do airlines hire pilots with prior criminal convictions for pilot license fraud" Your stunt in college p
28 Post contains images FN1001 : Offtopic: Real doctors treat more than one species! Our topic: I think he was mentally ill when he started it and later found no exit of this situatio
29 SEPilot : Ernest Gann tells a tale of an impostor in "Fate is the Hunter", and it caused him to realize that in his airline career no person had ever asked to s
30 PanHAM : Presumption and assumption are the mothers of all f...-ups. each time you hire a car, you have to show the drivers licence. Now, pilots hiring at an a
31 Voar : Despite him passing his check rides, this constitutes a very very serious offence. A check ride does not necessarily check all possible aspects of fly
32 PanHAM : I doubt that he will go to jail at all. If he has no previous records, this will be a probation sentence. Both possible countries of jurisdiction, Hol
33 kl911 : On a sidenote, the article said he had 10000+ hours in his log. Out of interest, what counts as an hour? Working hours, or hours in the air?
34 bjorn14 : Anybody remember who Frank "Catch Me If You Can" Abingale flew for?
35 maxpower1954 : Frank Abingale didn't actually perform any duties as a pilot, he just did the charade for jumpseat and travel privilages. It was Pan Am in the mid-196
36 Musang : Brake release for pushback, to brakes on after parking, is the time we log. If we should return to stand (tech problem perhaps) the time is still log
37 F9Animal : No kidding. This guy should be hung by his testicles! There is absolutetly no excuse for his behaviors. Impersonating a pilot is fine, good for Hallo
38 Post contains links Voar : I am not in favor of harsh sentences either, but playing with peoples lives for over 13 years is absurd. Thousands and thousands of people lives were
39 shamrock604 : Only if the crime was commited in the UK - They dont care what you do in your home country as I recently found out when applying for a UK airport ID.
40 Post contains images Bennett123 : Just who would have juristiction. IMO, if he is flying for a Turkish carrier, then it should be Turkey. Could be a re run of Mdnight Express
41 FN1001 : How did the authorities find out that he was flying without license?
42 EDICHC : I don't know about elsewhere, but in NZ you need to prove you are of good character including a police record check before you can receive even a PPL
43 PanHAM : well, technically it was fraud, in Germany we have something like "endangering of transport", the fact that he did this over 13 years is certainly co
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