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Does CO Not Have Focus Cities?  
User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1576 posts, RR: 2
Posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6882 times:

CLE jokes aside, I don't think I 've ever seen a CO flight in any of my booking scenarios that doesn't run through a hub. For instance, here at CMH, DL, AA, and US all fly to LGA and DL to BOS. Certainly those are all focus cities and not hubs (at least not yet, if the DCA slot swap goes through), but I don't recall seeing CO routes like that.

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7780 posts, RR: 16
Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6839 times:

CO is the most hub-centric of all the legacy carriers. Though pre-9/11 they did briefly flirt with a mini-hub operation at LGA using ExpressJet ERJs. The only other routes that do not originate ex EWR, IAH, CLE or GUM are a handful of the Pacific routes that are tag ons from a GUM based flight... might still be some flights ex SPN or HNL but that would be about it.


Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1576 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6810 times:

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 1):
CO is the most hub-centric of all the legacy carriers. Though pre-9/11 they did briefly flirt with a mini-hub operation at LGA using ExpressJet ERJs. The only other routes that do not originate ex EWR, IAH, CLE or GUM are a handful of the Pacific routes that are tag ons from a GUM based flight... might still be some flights ex SPN or HNL but that would be about it.

I forgot about the Pacific ops but I guess HNL is more of a gateway to their island network than anything else.


User currently offlineTommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6769 times:

Spoke to a CO pilot in San Diego over new years and he said that last year CO flirted with the idea of opening up crew bases at LAX and MCO. Not surprising considering the gulfstream int'l feeder presence at MCO and the Hawaii flights out of LAX. IIRC, back in 2006 COEX had a few RJ flights to various resort destinations in mexico out of LAX. Not sure of the frequency or how long they ran but that was an interesting operation. Neither MCO or LAX at this point could be considered a CO focus city with the current mainline/express ops they have at each airport.

Historically in the mid-1990s MSY was considered a CO focus city. IAD was a former hub for CO in the late 1980s before EWR was a full fledged operation. Rumor has it that CO was kicking themselves for years about abandoning DEN but apparently now with WN and F9 playing cut throat with UA they would probably not want it now (or secretly maybe they still want it but are waiting to merge with UA.)

For right now CLE is a "big focus city" for CO. If CO thought outside the box I think they could pull off potential focus cities at LAX, MCO, or even FLL.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlinesurfandsnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2865 posts, RR: 30
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6750 times:

CO used to do a lot more p2p flying than it does now. In the past decade, they have tried quite a few oddball routes from LAX (AGS, SAL, etc.), HNL (NGO immediately comes to mind), MEX (I believe they flew n/s to SAT, MFE, and LRD), PTY (used to do lots of flying down to the likes of Ecuador themselves), but then again almost all of this flying was done by CO Express carriers or CO Mike, highly autonomous subsidiaries, not CO itself. You do still have quite a few Continental Connection flights down in Florida, and one of the CO Connection carriers used to have a hub in ALB! Also, new flights from SNA to Hawaii coming online soon, and HNL just got NAN service in addition to SNA. Quite a few random routes way out there in the Pacific too, not everything goes right in and out of Guam!


Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineSHAQ From Panama, joined Jun 2007, 378 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6716 times:

HNL can be considered a focus city ?
They will have flights to LAX and SNA . In LAX , they have to OGG !!! All non-hub routes !



Studying hard, for flying right!
User currently offlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2707 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6716 times:

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 1):
CO is the most hub-centric of all the legacy carriers.

Sorry to hijack this thread, but I am not sure UA is much different. Apart from a few PDX, SEA routes and other odd and end UAX California flights, all of United's routes are from one of their 5 hubs. The other exceptions would be some International Tag-ons and some NRT and HKG flights.


User currently offlineFlyingSicilian From Italy, joined Mar 2009, 1332 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6636 times:

CO now has SEA-ANC LGA-AUA on saturdays the LAX area to Hawai'i flights and some from HNL that don't go directly to Guam. Recently there was JAX to Mississippi somewhere IIRC as part of a casino funding but it is gone now IIRC.

Earlier in the decade there was SAT amd MFE to Mexico also.



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User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3969 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6623 times:
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Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 3):
Spoke to a CO pilot in San Diego over new years and he said that last year CO flirted with the idea of opening up crew bases at LAX and MCO.

MCO, I dont think that was being talked about, as for LAX, the only base that had been rumored was for flight attendants, not pilots.



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User currently offlineTommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6598 times:

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 8):
MCO, I dont think that was being talked about, as for LAX, the only base that had been rumored was for flight attendants, not pilots.

IIRC, I think thats what he meant. MCO gets a lot of 757s from EWR and IAH plus the large MX base so when he said that I wasn't at all surprised. If they ever merge with UA I could see UA/CO opening a crew base at MCO as they will have IAD, EWR, IAH, DEN, LAX, SFO, ORD, CLE plus the gulfstream ops.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3969 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6521 times:
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over the past 10 years this is some of what CO has had:

LGA: almost 20+ cities (plus RIC/ORF - MCO/TPA)
LAX: SAL, SAT, MSY, MTJ, AGU, DRO, BJX, MLM, QRO, and I think 1 more....
MEX: MFE, LRD, SAT
HPN: CLE, DCA, YYZ, BOS, EWR



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User currently offlineTommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6438 times:

Wait who can forget about CO's focus city at GSO back in the Mid-1990s?!?! Totally blanked on this one. They had some 6-8 gates in a corner of one of the terminals and flew mainly to Florida but I think also served BWI and a few other northeast destinations. I flew EWR-GSO-MCO in 1996 on 731/732.


"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 6272 times:

A few years ago Continental Connection had a lot of flights out of BOS to places like Scranton, PA and other small cities throughout the Northeast, but I can't remember which ones. Those are gone now, unfortunately.

There was also a "Commuter hub" in ALB for a while also.



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User currently offlinesurfandsnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2865 posts, RR: 30
Reply 13, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 6269 times:

Quoting United787 (Reply 6):
Quoting United787 (Reply 6):
Sorry to hijack this thread, but I am not sure UA is much different. Apart from a few PDX, SEA routes and other odd and end UAX California flights, all of United's routes are from one of their 5 hubs. The other exceptions would be some International Tag-ons and some NRT and HKG flights.

Very true. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see all of those oddball intra-California flights (as well as LAS-FAT/PSP) and all of the non-hub Pac NW flights go once Skywest gets rid of its last EMB-120s. That would just leave SEA/HNL-NRT and the remaining intra-Asia tags as the last non-hub flights.

US is also streamlining its network so that 99% of flights involve either PHL, DCA, CLT, or PHX. I think all of the p2p routes to Florida and intra-Florida routes are already gone, and neither LAS, PIT, LGA, or BOS will likely keep any service beyond the 4 hubs. That will leave AA and DL as the only legacies that have any substantial p2p ops.



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6385 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 6209 times:

Also, ELP was a focus city for CO up until the late 1980's...


Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5111 posts, RR: 21
Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 6078 times:

Gordon Bethune turned CO around by focusing on the core strengths of the CO network at the time: EWR, IAH, and CLE. GSO was a CALite hub and was dismantled, DEN was basically gone by then.

No remaining legacy carrier has had such a dramatic geographic shift in network since deregulation than CO. From a western US airline with HQ in LAX and hubs in DEN, IAH and the ELP minihub, to EWR, IAH and CLE. GUM has been built up of course, but the South Pacific routes are a distant memory, DEN is gone, ELP is an IAH spoke now. Where Houston and Chicago were as far east as CO once operated, IAH is now thier westernmost hub, and really that's in the southern CENTER of the country.

CO tried hubs/focus cities thru the Lorenzo and immediate post-Lorenzo years at LGA, MSY, IAD and the aforementioned GSO. The high cost of the new DEN scared them off as CO was a major money loser at the time so bye bye DEN. Bethune got it right, CO is the dominant player at their remaining 4 hubs and are playing second fiddle to no one there.



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1576 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 6047 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 15):
Gordon Bethune turned CO around by focusing on the core strengths of the CO network at the time: EWR, IAH, and CLE. GSO was a CALite hub and was dismantled, DEN was basically gone by then.

No remaining legacy carrier has had such a dramatic geographic shift in network since deregulation than CO. From a western US airline with HQ in LAX and hubs in DEN, IAH and the ELP minihub, to EWR, IAH and CLE. GUM has been built up of course, but the South Pacific routes are a distant memory, DEN is gone, ELP is an IAH spoke now. Where Houston and Chicago were as far east as CO once operated, IAH is now thier westernmost hub, and really that's in the southern CENTER of the country.

CO tried hubs/focus cities thru the Lorenzo and immediate post-Lorenzo years at LGA, MSY, IAD and the aforementioned GSO. The high cost of the new DEN scared them off as CO was a major money loser at the time so bye bye DEN. Bethune got it right, CO is the dominant player at their remaining 4 hubs and are playing second fiddle to no one there.

I do have to give credit to CO there. I could see where this type of strategy might save a good bit of money, which certainly doesn't hurt the bottom line. DL certainly learned it's lesson with DFW that you can't force a large operation to work.


User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7780 posts, RR: 16
Reply 17, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 6047 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 15):
CO tried hubs/focus cities thru the Lorenzo and immediate post-Lorenzo years at LGA, MSY, IAD and the aforementioned GSO

I suppose there is some irony that both the IAH and EWR hubs are legacies of the Lorenzo era. Prior to the merger with Texas International, Continental's core route was from ORD to LAX via DEN in the pre-deregulation era. The growth at IAH and in Texas came from TI. EWR come from the purchase of People's Express. So while Frank may have been a rat bastard he did secure assets that in the long-term turned out to be very beneficial for the modern Continental Airlines.



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5111 posts, RR: 21
Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5987 times:

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 17):


So while Frank may have been a rat bastard he did secure assets that in the long-term turned out to be very beneficial for the modern Continental Airlines.

Yes, EWR and for what it contributes, CLE. But for all the other people's money Texas Air spent on Continental, Eastern, People Express, Frontier and the former in-house network of New York Air, there is really about half of what the network could have been, domestically speaking. I've always wondered what the landscape would look like if Texas Air had suceeded in buying National. Or TWA for that matter...



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10427 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5735 times:

Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 13):
once Skywest gets rid of its last EMB-120s.

Which is still a few years off, for one reason or another, from what I hear.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineBRJ From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 264 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5636 times:

Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 11):
Wait who can forget about CO's focus city at GSO back in the Mid-1990s?!?! Totally blanked on this one. They had some 6-8 gates in a corner of one of the terminals and flew mainly to Florida but I think also served BWI and a few other northeast destinations. I flew EWR-GSO-MCO in 1996 on 731/732.

Wasn't this the Continental 'Lite' operations? They also flew to MSY I believe out of GSO, on the DC-9-32s. I believe the 'Lite' operations were centered around the 732s and DC9s.


User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5608 times:

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 10):
over the past 10 years this is some of what CO has had:

LGA: almost 20+ cities (plus RIC/ORF - MCO/TPA)
LAX: SAL, SAT, MSY, MTJ, AGU, DRO, BJX, MLM, QRO, and I think 1 more....
MEX: MFE, LRD, SAT
HPN: CLE, DCA, YYZ, BOS, EWR

And oh, the ALB "microhub" brings back memories!

ALB flew to BUF,SYR,ROC,PWM,BOS,BGR,ACK,LGA,HPN,ISP,BTV,BDL,MHT,PVD,SLK,ITH,ELM,BGM,ABE,YUL, YOW, HIA, PLB, and RUT.



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineTommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5575 times:

Quoting BRJ (Reply 20):
Wasn't this the Continental 'Lite' operations? They also flew to MSY I believe out of GSO, on the DC-9-32s. I believe the 'Lite' operations were centered around the 732s and DC9s.

GSO had the Lite operation but when I flew EWR-GSO-MCO in April 1996 the operation was largely 732s from to florida and probably MSY as well. IIRC, CO lite might have discontinued by then as mainline flights to GSO were largely discontinued by 1997-1998 with CO.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineCLEpirate From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 78 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5556 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 21):

I loved the Albany Micro hub!!!!


User currently offlineSlcDeltaRUmd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3462 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5244 times:

CO has a focus city its called CLE  

25 jflchantha : HNL, LAX and I remember reading a post a few days ago about them doing a single service from LGA to somewhere
26 Josh32121 : It's AUA on Saturdays. This thread highlights how really oddball that route is.
27 CODC10 : The GSO hub was pulled down in 1995-96, and CO Lite was officially discontinued in 1995. For a while, GSO flights were operated by CO mainline (DC-9s
28 jflchantha : yes
29 klwright69 : Besides SEA-ANC, LGA-AUA as point to points... CO has always had an interest in Hawaii. They have always been looking for opportunities there even aft
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