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SAS Scandinavian To Be Sold To Competition - CEO  
User currently offlineshanxz From Singapore, joined Apr 2006, 243 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 15594 times:

Mentioned in the latest ATWonline:

Quote:
SAS Group President and CEO Mats Jansson told Dagens Nyheter that the company likely will be sold to another airline once it recovers financially. "My understanding is that, after this crisis is over, SAS will be part of a structural deal," he said, according to Reuters. "It is tough out there and there are obvious synergies and advantages to be had from being part of a bigger entity."

Two weeks ago the Swedish government said it intends to reduce its 21.4% share in the group (ATWOnline, Feb. 19), but right now Jansson said he is focused on completing the previously announced SEK5 billion ($695 million) rights issue. SAS said it plans to unveil the subscription price on April 6, with the subscription period scheduled for April 15-29. The board will propose a reverse split in order to reduce the number of shares following the issue. "First we have to get the capital injection from shareholders and then get the cash flow positive again so that SAS will be an interesting object again," Jansson said. "From 2011 we will begin to show positive figures on the bottom line."

So, who're the likely buyers?

1. Lufthansa - because of Star Alliance synergies, and just because they have big ambitions in the region
2. airBaltic - Although originally started by SAS, the airline is now a powerhouse in the Baltics
3. BA/KL/AF/IB - Would one of the other biggies make a go for it?

[Edited 2010-03-03 23:32:53]


Airlines are in the service business, not transport. Brand matters...
52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNavigator From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1214 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 15514 times:

This is a dream of SAS CEO since he obviously has no plan for the the future of SAS on it´s own feet. I think it is time for this CEO to step out and give the market what it wants from SAS or resign. Tough words, but I think he has to do better or else SAS will be history soon. You can not survive on cutbacks only, you also have to have a good businessplan!!!


747-400/747-200/L1011/DC-10/DC-9/DC-8/MD-80/MD90/A340/A330/A300/A310/A321/A320/A319/767/757/737/727/HS-121/CV990/CV440/S
User currently offlineLarshjort From Denmark, joined Dec 2007, 1486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 15479 times:

Quoting shanxz (Thread starter):
1. Lufthansa - because of Star Alliance synergies, and just because they have big ambitions in the region

Lufthansa has already stated that they are not interested and I don't know why airBaltic would want to get their hands on SAS. If they get sold, it believe that it will either be to Airfrance-KLM or BA/Finnair

/Lars



139, 306, 319, 320, 321, 332, 34A, AN2, AT4, AT5, AT7, 733, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 146, AR1, BH2, CN1, CR2, DH1, DH3, DH4,
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7565 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 15334 times:

A pretty negitative attitude from the CEO, must work wonders for staff moral.

User currently offlinehjulicher From Liechtenstein, joined Feb 2005, 882 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 15282 times:

Don't rule out Lufthansa. Lufthansa does pretty well in the Nordic region, and if they can flow PAX from the nordic countries through FRA and MUC on the intercontinental legs, then it would do them well. I also think that there might be some unexpected interest from carriers like Aeroflot.

Aeroflot also has ambitions to expand and I think that this would be something that they would definitely consider. Now that the Russian government has forced them to take over several smaller bust Russian airlines, I don't know how many resources they will have. Just two years ago Aeroflot had 14 Long-haul jets. Soon they will have 24 if including the IL96, and in 8+ years time they will have 44. Where are all these planes going to fly?

What about FInnair taking over part of SAS? This would seriously help one-world, and it seems that One World is serious now about growing as they almost suffered a defection.



LH 442
User currently offlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3425 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 15241 times:

This is old news, and the major owners of SAS (i.e. the Scandinavian Governments) has themselves told that SAS is up for sales, so the CEO just do the job and communicates the wishes of SAS' owners

User currently offlineTreg From Estonia, joined Oct 2001, 537 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 15107 times:

Quoting shanxz (Thread starter):
2. airBaltic - Although originally started by SAS, the airline is now a powerhouse in the Baltics

You must be kidding, right?  
SAS sold BT to BTs CEO. If one can pinpoint the investors behind him, I would be happy. At the moment their business is extremely nontransparent. Even the news about possible profit or loss are contradictory.


User currently offlineNavigator From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1214 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 15022 times:

It is probably easier for an entrant or a possible buyer of SAS to start from scratch and get new planes and more motivated people rather than taking over those old planes and not so motivated staff. Give scandinavian aviation a new chance by starting all over again with a new airline. Those interested can of course apply for a position at the new airline. This new entrant could very well be a subsidiary of Lufthansa. But SAS has to go before this can be a reality. As long as SAS stays with subsidies from the governments of the scandinavian countries noone can make enough money in the scandinavian market except perhaps Norwegians. Let the passengers be the winners and start out with a new airline and forget old SAS...


747-400/747-200/L1011/DC-10/DC-9/DC-8/MD-80/MD90/A340/A330/A300/A310/A321/A320/A319/767/757/737/727/HS-121/CV990/CV440/S
User currently offlineju068 From Vanuatu, joined Aug 2009, 2695 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 14911 times:
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If Lufthansa is not interested in buying SAS then it's bad news for them. If SAS is bought by some thrid party other than a Star Alliance member (that is Lufty) and eventually switching alliance, could we see Lufthansa and Star getting Norwegian? I know they are a low cost carrier but isn't BMI as well?
Please correct me if I am wrong  


User currently offlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3425 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 14856 times:

Quoting ju068 (Reply 8):
could we see Lufthansa and Star getting Norwegian?

No. But if Star looses SAS, we'll most likelt rather see slightly increased presence in Scandinavia from LH with more flights and maybe some new destinastions compared to today

And BMI and Norwegian can be compared....other on their pitch in economy


User currently offlineju068 From Vanuatu, joined Aug 2009, 2695 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 14825 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Well i suppose if SAS is bought by let's say Aeroflot or Air France it will move to SkyTeam... So why not get Norwegian? What is wrong with it?

User currently offlineshanxz From Singapore, joined Apr 2006, 243 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 14575 times:

Quoting ju068 (Reply 10):
Well i suppose if SAS is bought by let's say Aeroflot or Air France it will move to SkyTeam... So why not get Norwegian? What is wrong with it?

Do you really think Aeroflot can buy another airline? Do they have the Roubles?

Though, Air France is certainly a possibility.



Airlines are in the service business, not transport. Brand matters...
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7565 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 14557 times:

I'd personally like to see SAS bankrupted and a new leaner meaner airline (still in Star Alliance) emerge from the ashes.

User currently offlineAndaman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 14353 times:

Quoting hjulicher (Reply 4):
What about FInnair taking over part of SAS? This would seriously help one-world, and it seems that One World is serious now about growing as they almost suffered a defection.

A couple of years ago AY's former CEO said they could be interested in SAS's long haul operations, but I don't believe they would be able to make moves like that in the near future, without some bigger partner(s).

Quoting Larshjort (Reply 2):
it believe that it will either be to Airfrance-KLM or BA/finnair

Perhaps BA/IB/AY + SK in some form could be the answer, competing against AF/KL and the LH group?

[Edited 2010-03-04 04:00:40]

User currently offlineMotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3225 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 14237 times:

Aside from all this speculation of potential ownership, is SK a good airline?

What would be on offer for sale? Do they have a strong following and loyal clientele? Do they have a product that's right for their market? Is their route network right, frequencies etc? Do they have the right fleet?

I've always believed SK to be a Blue Chip airline, what's gone so horribly wrong and can it be remedied?

Regards
MH



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineSKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1749 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 13441 times:

I doubt that Lufthansa will be able to buy SAS even if they wanted to.

SAS is a large airline and if Lufthansa purchased them, the European Union would probably step in to block the deal as they would have an unfair share of the market with Swiss, Austrian, Brussels Airlines and the various regional airlines.

One airline that seems to punch below its belt in Europe is British Airways. When/if they emerge from their troubles they may be interested in buying into a big stake of the European market by way of purchasing SAS or part of SAS.

AF/KL could also be interested but could stumble across the same problems as Lufthansa would. I.e. EU competition laws.



Next Flights: LHR-OSL (319-BA), OSL-LHR (319-BA), LHR-CPH (320-BA), VXO-BMA (S20-TF), ARN-CPH (738-SK), CPH-LHR (320-BA)
User currently offlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3425 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 13366 times:

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 15):
I doubt that Lufthansa will be able to buy SAS even if they wanted to.

SAS is a large airline and if Lufthansa purchased them, the European Union would probably step in to block the deal as they would have an unfair share of the market with Swiss, Austrian, Brussels Airlines and the various regional airlines

EU would easily approve it as it wouldn't change the competitive landscape. FYI SAS and LH already cooperate closely. Not only in Star Alliance, but thay have a JV and revenue sharing between Germany and Scandinavia


User currently onlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 3995 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 11323 times:

I guess Norwegian won't be able to buy SAS ?


Another option that has been mentioned in Norwegian media is that one of the governments buys out the other 2. Not the best solution, but better than being owned by 3 governments . So far the Norwegian government atleast has made it clear that it does not see this as an option.


User currently offlineseemyseems From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 970 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 11298 times:

Quoting ju068 (Reply 8):
I know they are a low cost carrier but isn't BMI as well?

No.

AF-KL stated interest in taking over SK last year:

link



seemyseems
User currently offlineRobbie86 From Sweden, joined May 2006, 541 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 10870 times:

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 17):
Another option that has been mentioned in Norwegian media is that one of the governments buys out the other 2. Not the best solution, but better than being owned by 3 governments . So far the Norwegian government atleast has made it clear that it does not see this as an option.

The Swedish government would like to sell their share of SAS and have told both Norway and Denmark that they will as soon as an appropriate buyer comes around.

http://www.thelocal.se/25084/20100219/



Next flights: ARN-ORD-MCO, MIA-ORD-ARN
User currently onlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 3995 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 10690 times:

Quoting Robbie86 (Reply 19):

The Norwegian government says the same thing. However I am not convinced they will stick with it.


User currently offlineB777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1389 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 10623 times:

No chance of Aeroflot or any other airline from a non-EU country buying SK - non-EU carriers are not allowed to hold a majority share of an EU airline. Well, they are, but then it won't be an EU airline anymore.

Back in 1993 then SAS CEO Janne Carlzon was talking about the near-immediate (ha ha) restructing of European airlines, resulting in mergers and only 5 remaining carriers. His slogan was "One of 5 in '95". Yup, I said to myself, and SAS will become LufthanSAS.

There are really only 2 options open to SAS: One is to allow it to go bankrupt and build a new airline from the ground up. The second is selling it to Lufty. There should, by all logic, be a third option available, namely restructuring the existing airline. But that would require boldness, vision and a businessplan built on the traditional Scandinavian values of quality, innovation and service.

Fact of the matter is, though, nobody at SAS seems capable of formulating or executing such a plan, instead they're consistenly striving to reducing the airline to the lowest common denominator, trying to sell at full-service prices and with full-service cost levels what is nothing but a low-cost product.

The hull is leaking, the engines are misfiring, the rats have fled - time to let the ship sink.



From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
User currently offlineOryCdg From France, joined Jun 2009, 23 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 10155 times:

That could be difficult for the whole LH owned system, since all north and central Europe would ne ruled by one board. In terms of free competition, would be pretty hard to justify.

Perhaps, it could also be a problem for AF/KLM, but at a lower level. KLM would be the happiest with it, with their strong ties with Scandinavia.

But after several takeover, increase in Capital (AF with Alitalia for example), would any of these two groups be able to bring enough money ? I mean, the SAS group is made of three different airlines, and even in some troubles, the buyer should spend quite a lot of money...


User currently offlineaffirmative From France, joined Jul 2009, 352 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 10005 times:

This is a game of not who is the biggest but about who will likely profit the most from a takeover..

Looking at it I think that the most likely "buyers" (I'm not sure one can talk about buyers since there's really nothing substantial to buy.) is LH and, I never thought I'd say this, Norwegian.

Why?

Norwegian is making a killing, literally.. Maybe not enough to buy SK just like that. But compare it to Spyker Cars takeover of SAAB, where a significantly smaller company bought a big car manufacturer. I'd say is possible. Likely? Who knows.. But Norwegian has a viable business model, just what SK lacks, and they might just be able to clean up SK and make it profitable again. They have stated quite recently that they would like to expand with longhaul..

Lufthansa stated a while ago that they were "not interested at the moment".. These things can change, and will.. I think LH is the most viable candidate for a takeover of SK. It's fairly easy to integrate into LH as is. SK and LH has had cooperations for quite some time now so they do understand each other. There are some hurdles though, like the EU antitrust and such.. That can prove to unsurmountable..

AY - Very unlikely.. They are on their needs after the slump..

AF/KL - They might be a tiny bit interested. But they difference in culture between SK and AF/KL would crash the deal. That I am sure of.

BA - This is not totally unlikely. With SK under their belt and cooperation with AY this could actually work. Moneywise I'm not sure they could handle it. Culture wise I would say the scandinavians and the Brits work better together than the Scandinavians and the South europeans.. It would also be a kick in LHs a**..

Disclaimer: I have no substatiated info that I build this upon, it's just my own opinion. Like it or not.  



I love the smell of Jet-A1 in the morning...
User currently offlineQazar From Canada, joined May 2006, 338 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9283 times:

DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF LUFTHANSA....!!!!!

SWISS had 1 foot inside OneWorld when LH miraculously convinced it to switch alliegence.

BMI: Everyone said the deal wouldn't happen when the feud started between LH and SMB, but somehow Lufthansa renegotiated their option price and brought the loss making airline at a discount versus what everyone thought it would pay for it.

AUSTRIAN: The deal was in the coffin and the nails were already hammered in when the EU refused the deal on anti-competitive basis, but somehow today Austrian is part of the LH group...

DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF LUFTHANSA....!!!!

Lufthansa never said they were not interested in buying SAS... They said they were not interested in buying SAS.... NOW!... And "Now" was when SAS owned Spanair, 20% of BMI, Air Baltic, and Air Greenland.... "Now" was when SAS was 4 different companies (SAS Scandinavian, SAS Danmark, SAS Sverige, and SAS Norge/Braathens).... And SAS has been doing a lot of clean-up ever since "Now". They sold their ownerships in all other companies - hence concentrating on their core activities; and they have recentered the company into 1 entity - hence reducing costs.

SAS's biggest problem at the moment are the Unions and their terrible fleet strategy with Boeing, Airbus, and McDonnell Douglas narrowbodies in their fleet.

I assure you, that LH will not turn its back on Norway, Sweden and Danmark as markets for them. The disposable income (required for air travel) available in these 3 countries is quite respectable. This is also not the first time we see LH downplay its willingness to buy an airline in an attempt to keep its stockprice down... Remember, if they wish to place a bid on SAS, the price per share will have to be based on the performance of the stock over the past X period.... Speculations that SAS may be bought by LH will definitly put an upward pressure on the stock - and that is not something Lufthansa is entertained by!

DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF LUFTHANSA......!!!!


25 Post contains images AAEXP :
26 kiwiandrew : I think that BA actually have to take the "credit" for that . It was only after BA pissed LX off that LX actually called a halt to the process of joi
27 OryCdg : Taking over SAS is one thing, but on the other hand, we should keep in mind the purpose of that. I mean, that owning SAS is also owning its problems.
28 Post contains links Larshjort : SAS has never owned Air Greenland. SAS is not on Lufthansas wishlist, Aage Dünhaupt communication director Lufhansa Europe http://finans.tv2.dk/nyhe
29 kiwiandrew : Which is exactly why I cannot see the EU permitting it ( yes , I know that Norway is not in the EU )
30 MasseyBrown : What about Maersk? Would they like to try aviation again?
31 Post contains images affirmative : This is pretty much my point as well. With the reservation being the question wether Scandinavia has enough traffic to sustain viable operation for a
32 Macsog6 : I certainly do not underestimate the power of Lufthansa. But at the same time, I also do not underestimate their business acumen. It would be far bet
33 AAEXP : After they released a 2009 result with a USD 1 Billion after tax loss this week, I don't think aviation is the first thing they will be looking at go
34 Qazar : There are several potential market opportunities for LH. I believe the one LH is really waiting for is the eventual privatization of TAP Portugal, and
35 Larshjort : I don't think they will be flying assengers again, they still have Star Air. DM did make money most of the years they were operating but during the l
36 Mortyman : Say again....
37 Robbie86 : I heard that the biggest reason that LH didn't want to buy SK anymore is because the Danish unions refused to allow LH to move the IC-routes to ARN.
38 VictorKilo : One of the advantages for SAS to become a part of the LH-LX-OS-SN-BD network is the ability for the group to consolidate fleet types amongst all of t
39 prebennorholm : In any case - even if SK by some miracle should prosper again - then I think that CPH's days as a major hub are running out. When Schoenefeld rather
40 MCO2BRS : How about AB? Could they be a dark horse in this game? Nobody has mentioned them yet in this thread. I don't know what their financial standing is, or
41 9252fly : Could any of the members from Scandinavia explain why SAS is kept together and not split up into seperate airlines such as,Air Sweden,Air Norway and A
42 MillwallSean : They have a good market. Scandinavia is rich and its corporate base is huge. Problem is its a widespread area to cover and with the EU internal marke
43 affirmative : Very good reply. I do think that the elections this fall will be a tipping point. Although I think that SK will be up for sale even if there's a chan
44 airbuster : I believe i read somewhere or might have heard at work that AF-KL is the second airline in scandinavia according to pax numbers. I don't have them tho
45 EBGARN : Correct, but I don't think there will be much of a debate. The commie leader stated a few weeks ago that he would not approve of any "subsidizes of t
46 Post contains images cuban8 : Everything in SAS is too expensive compared to the competition: ground services, pilots, cabin, fleet, 3 hub system, unions and so on. The only thing
47 farzan : I believe i read somewhere or might have heard at work that AF-KL is the second airline in scandinavia according to pax numbers. I don't have them tho
48 AAEXP : Let me help you: You just copied airbusters post above..................
49 farzan : Sorry guys, Who would ever buy the present SAS? Who would like to buy an airline with huge losses, aging personel without any spirit or motivation (I
50 Post contains images MasseyBrown : They promise to do better this year. If Maersk saw an advantage to doing it, they could buy SAS out of their cash flow, profits or not. I was trying
51 OryCdg : That's the point I wanted to highlight above. Owning SAS is one thing, but the buyer will also buy its structural problems. No matter who would take
52 Larshjort : I would call Maersk an absurd candidate, they got burned badly on their own airline which turned out profit most of the years it was operating, I can
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