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CO Starts SNA/LAX-Maui And SNA-HNL  
User currently offlineyazoo From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 487 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 6282 times:

Continental Airlines begins new flights from Los Angeles and Orange County to Maui and a flight between Orange County and Honolulu on Sunday, March 7.

http://empirestatefx.com/airtravel/c...n-california-and-hawaii-on-sunday/


Purple Pride!
14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26150 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 6261 times:

Yes reported many moons ago;
CO Launches Hawaii Expansion (by STT757 Oct 7 2009 in Civil Aviation)
New - CO Announcing SNA-OGG (by AznMadSci Dec 4 2009 in Civil Aviation)



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineplatinumfoota From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 556 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 6236 times:

Together with UA, how many daily flights does *A have on LAX-OGG now?


Never forget United 93
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26005 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6146 times:

Quoting platinumfoota (Reply 2):
Together with UA, how many daily flights does *A have on LAX-OGG now?

4 daily (2 UA 763, 1 UA 752, 1 CO 738).


User currently onlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1653 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6093 times:

Hope it works well AQ showed everyone the way, and CO needs to make some money...737NG Great airplane !! can fly HNL/OGG-SNA then re-fuel and fly SNA-EWR

User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5603 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5859 times:

As pointed out, this news has already been well discussed.

Ever since this new CO SoCal-Hawaii service was announced last year, I was hoping to see CO move south from John Wayne another 80 miles or so and continue their pro-Hawaii thinking!

(Hint: we down here at Lindbergh Field could sure use a permanent OGG-flight again! Yeah, it's real nice that HA temporarily has an extra 767 or two and is flying one of them between SAN and Maui for 2 months this summer... AQ flew their 737s daily and continually for over 3 years on the route and did well in the market.)

How about it CO? If you can fill a daily flight from SNA to OGG, you sure could fill another from San Diego!

bb


User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2727 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5640 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 5):
Ever since this new CO SoCal-Hawaii service was announced last year, I was hoping to see CO move south from John Wayne another 80 miles or so and continue their pro-Hawaii thinking!

(Hint: we down here at Lindbergh Field could sure use a permanent OGG-flight again! Yeah, it's real nice that HA temporarily has an extra 767 or two and is flying one of them between SAN and Maui for 2 months this summer... AQ flew their 737s daily and continually for over 3 years on the route and did well in the market.)

How about it CO? If you can fill a daily flight from SNA to OGG, you sure could fill another from San Diego!

bb

That's a great idea. CO must think SNA-OGG route could be monopoly at least for a while as cannot be flown by AS due to equipment issues 738 won't work and 73G's aren't ETOPS. The question is whether HA would come back to SAN-OGG with a widebody and superior timings vs. a CO dinnertime west and read-eye east. Would their new A330's free up some 763s or will they be sold or retired?
All of these CO Hawaii routes are being done with free over nighting aircraft except the second LAX-HNL. One overriding factor would be aircraft performance out of SAN. CO must have found out the 739ER doesn't cut it from and unrestricted runway at LAX and has gone to the 738. The 738 is fine LAX-OGG and 73G must be used SNA-HNL. The question is whether the 738 can get off RW27 at MGTOW. I don't think a 73G would cut it on that route as it would mean 30 seats are lost and that it would require a 73G coming into SAN about 4pm and leaving about 7am - these flights are pretty full and need the 738.


User currently offlineadxmatt From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 954 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5590 times:

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 6):
All of these CO Hawaii routes are being done with free over nighting aircraft except the second LAX-HNL

The SNA-HNL is a 0900 dept and the return leaves HNL at 1pm

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 6):
CO must have found out the 739ER doesn't cut it from and unrestricted runway at LAX and has gone to the 738.

The B737-900ER does not have a runway limit at LAX and is still used LAX-HNL


User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4050 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5460 times:
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the SNA-OGG flight is already holding 32 seats per flight for weight. So we'll see how it performs once it starts going this month.


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5603 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5264 times:

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 6):
That's a great idea.... The question is whether HA would come back to SAN-OGG with a widebody and superior timings vs. a CO dinnertime west and read-eye east. Would their new A330's free up some 763s or will they be sold or retired?

The available 763s that are providing the 2-month SAN-OGG flight (as well as a 3-month OAK-OGG "seasonal"one) are due to the first couple of A330s arriving in-fleet and entering LAX-HNL service. However, the schedules from fall on are a question mark as of now, partly due to the application by HA for HNL-HND service: (From HA P R page.)

Quote:
Hawaiian Eyes Honolulu-Tokyo Service
HONOLULU – February 16, 2010 - Hawaiian Airlines today took a significant step toward expanding its international route network by filing an application with the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) for approval to introduce nonstop flights between Honolulu and Tokyo’s Haneda International Airport. If approved, the new service would start in late October....Hawaiian is proposing twice-daily flights on the new Honolulu-Tokyo route.


HA has made no implication that anything beyond this temporary 2-month resumption of SAN-OGG is to be expected. And I can assure you that if HA has any need for a/c anywhere, they will pull it from SAN-OGG; it's happened more than once before and I see no reason to think the future will be any different.

(And, btw, HA's OGG-SAN flight will be a red-eye so CO could do no worse...)

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 6):
All of these CO Hawaii routes are being done with free over nighting aircraft except the second LAX-HNL. One overriding factor would be aircraft performance out of SAN.... The question is whether the 738 can get off RW27 at MGTOW. I don't think a 73G would cut it on that route as it would mean 30 seats are lost and that it would require a 73G coming into SAN about 4pm and leaving about 7am - these flights are pretty full and need the 738

The new DL flight SAN-HNL r/t is using an otherwise RON-in SAN a/c so a 5-6pm SAN departure for OGG with a red-eye return would not only make sense, but would probably be fine and successful.

I don't recall ever hearing about any performance penalties out of Lindbergh for any 737 models and we have plenty of domestic long-hauls flown on various models from here.

bb


User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5950 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5215 times:
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I still think AS still has the chance to do well on the SAN-OGG or SAN-KOA route using 737-800 equipment. Does AS have the ETOPS equipment now to start the route...I don't know.

I am a bit surprised that SAN doesn't have more Hawaii flights beyond SAN-HNL with HA. I remember UA and DL having nonstop SAN-HNL route. Didn't AQ fly to OGG and maybe KOA from SAN (more recently).

Finally, didn't AA use DC-10's on the SAN-LAX-HNL route, UA using 747-100/-200 on the SAN-LAX-HNL route?


User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8913 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5117 times:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 10):
I remember UA and DL having nonstop SAN-HNL route.

Delta is resuming SAN-HNL starting on June 3.

DL1831 Lv SAN 545p Ar HNL 845p 757-200 Daily
DL1870 Lv HNL 1000p Ar SAN 650a+1 757-200 Daily


User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2727 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5059 times:

Quoting adxmatt (Reply 7):
Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 6):
All of these CO Hawaii routes are being done with free over nighting aircraft except the second LAX-HNL

The SNA-HNL is a 0900 dept and the return leaves HNL at 1pm
Oops, I forgot - I think the original plan was for the evening departure, then CO later announced SNA-OGG with the pm departure and added an aircraft for the SNA-HNL operation.

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 6):
CO must have found out the 739ER doesn't cut it from and unrestricted runway at LAX and has gone to the 738.

The B737-900ER does not have a runway limit at LAX and is still used LAX-HNL

My wife and I got bumped along with about 20+ more standbys on the 739ER a couple of months ago. With heavy winter headwinds the aircraft can only take a certain amount of payload and with full tanks to make it with ETOPS reserves. CO didn't order any Aux tanks on the 739ER. There have been a pretty good number of blocked seats on Flight 3. I guess with winds changing the 739ER is scheduled on both flights eff. 3/7.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 9):
I don't recall ever hearing about any performance penalties out of Lindbergh for any 737 models and we have plenty of domestic long-hauls flown on various models from here.

I saw a Boeing presentation to the SD Airport Authority that showed the 739ER was weight restricted out of SAN. The 738 can go out MGTOW, but the heavier 739ER (with the same engines and 13K more GTOW) is somewhat limited and thus, has a range limitation.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5603 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5000 times:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 10):
I still think AS still has the chance to do well on the SAN-OGG or SAN-KOA route using 737-800 equipment. Does AS have the ETOPS equipment now to start the route...I don't know.

I absolutely agree. As I said about CO's announcement late last year of new HI service, and hoping they would do somethig with SAN as well, I felt the same hope when AS announced their latest round of HI service from SJC, OAK, and SMF. I sure felt optimistic that one (or both?) of the cx might show up with SAN-HI service -- outer Islands probably -- for this summer; unfortunately, neither has made a move. Thanks to Delta, we finally have competition to HNL!

I, too, have no idea of the fleet availability within AS for more ETOPS service...

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 10):
I am a bit surprised that SAN doesn't have more Hawaii flights beyond SAN-HNL with HA. I remember UA and DL having nonstop SAN-HNL route. Didn't AQ fly to OGG and maybe KOA from SAN (more recently).

Yeah, I think I remember mentioning that a few (dozen) times in the last few years!   In fact, the last official State of Hawaii traffic figures I saw verified that SAN is the 4th largest market for the Hawaiian Islands, exceeded only by LAX, SFO and SEA. Looking at flight schedules from western cities to the Islands, you sure wouldn't know it!

DL (started by WA) flew for years n/s SAN-HNL, along with competition from UA at times. Surprisingly enough, CO briefly op'd n/s between SAN and HNL as well.

Yes, AQ ran cleverly routed circle-trips during the last several months of their existence; 3x weekly they flew SAN-LIH-KOA-SNA and SNA-LIH-KOA-SAN and 4x weekly they flew SAN-KOA-LIH-SNA and SNA-KOA-LIH-SAN. They used 2 a/c to serve all those markets and although I never saw hard figures, word was the flights did well both LF- and yield-wise. (Actually, AS is doing something sort of along these lines from OAK and SJC; I have no idea why they haven't planned something like that from SAN...)

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 10):
Finally, didn't AA use DC-10's on the SAN-LAX-HNL route, UA using 747-100/-200 on the SAN-LAX-HNL route?

AA never did, no, but they made on-line wide-body connections (on both segments) via LAX very attractive and carried a good bit of Island traffic. Correct on UA.
Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 12):
I saw a Boeing presentation to the SD Airport Authority that showed the 739ER was weight restricted out of SAN.

I do know that we see 739s at Lindbergh sometimes, from both AS and CO, but, if I remember correctly, CO only flew them to IAH, not EWR. I guess 739s have not been used on the longest domestic routes out of here and I guess we now know why!

bb


User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2727 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4814 times:

[quote=SANFan,reply=13]I do know that we see 739s at Lindbergh sometimes, from both AS and CO, but, if I remember correctly, CO only flew them to IAH, not EWR. I guess 739s have not been used on the longest domestic routes out of here and I guess we now know why!

bb


There should be no problem with domestic routes out of SAN with the 739ER even though I believe CO has held some seats on SAN-EWR 739ER flights. The problem with HNL/OGG is that ETOPS requires extra fuel,the flights can be a lot longer than the East Coast and that could bring the aircraft above the MGTOW for RW 27.


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