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Nighttime At Airports  
User currently offlineA380US From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2358 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7964 times:

I got into a discussion with a friend about night time operations regarding airport personal so I know regarding an airport such as JFK there has to always be ATC, CBP, security etc. because they are always opperating.
But I was wondering in smaller airports with commercial service (domestic or international) if they do not operate past say 10 until 7 am is there always someone in the tower, does there always need to be CBP present in case of an emergency?
And whats the most active airport without 24 hour tower.

PS. this question is based on the US

thanks,
A380US


www.JandACosmetics.com
35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12242 posts, RR: 35
Reply 1, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7959 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Many towers shut down at night, making it unicom traffic advisory only. CBP is usually only there for scheduled flights


911, where is your emergency?
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25161 posts, RR: 46
Reply 2, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7890 times:

Even at a big airport like LAX CBP is not 24/7. If an unforeseen international diversion would occur then flight would have to wait till the morning and staff come in.
Also don't forget many airlines and vendors are not 24/7 either. Once the last flight of the night it worked many go home.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinePilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7854 times:

Quoting A380US (Thread starter):
smaller airports with commercial service
Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 1):
Many towers shut down at night, making it unicom traffic advisory only

You say many but what exactly are you referring to?

Yes, many airports in general shut down at night. But most airports that handle commercial service don't. In fact, I'd say very few do. I mean lets take DAB, for example, because I know it well. It doesn't have more then 20 commercial movements any given day, yet the tower remains open 24/7. At nighttime they do consolidate and usually one 1 or 2 controllers is there. Anything smaller then DAB may see nighttime closures. But anything bigger is most likely open 24/7.

In regards to CBP: they are going to only be on duty when international flights are scheduled. For example, at MCO, if everything's on time, they can be walking out the door by 8-9PM on certain days.

And security: If you mean TSA, then it's pretty much the same as CBP, but instead it's not limited to international flights - it's about all flights. However, even at most airports TSA is open 24/7 even if at nighttime it goes down to just 1 line. At DAB they close TSA once all scheduled flights have departed. But in MCO you can get through any day, any time.

If you mean basic airport security: if there's any security assigned to an airport (other then local police/sheriff), it's most likely 24/7. I would find it odd to have security to protect the airport grounds but not have them there 24/7. For example, at DAB someone from Ops is there 24/7 and also the sheriffs are on property 24/7.


User currently offlineC767P From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 886 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7612 times:

Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 3):
Anything smaller then DAB may see nighttime closures. But anything bigger is most likely open 24/7.

This would depend on the airspace of the airport, not the size of operations. DAB would stay open because it is a class Charlie.

Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 3):
However, even at most airports TSA is open 24/7 even if at nighttime it goes down to just 1 line.

San Diego will close up after all departures are gone for the night. No reason for them to be there. I would think it would have to depend on scheduled departures.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31679 posts, RR: 56
Reply 5, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7393 times:

Out here on non 24x7 airports...Security is always 24x7.

regds
MEL.

[Edited 2010-03-05 02:41:35]


Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinenkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2662 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7373 times:

ACY (which is smaller than DAB) has a 24-hour tower operation.... TSA goes home after the last departure is airborne, and opens 2 hours prior to first dept in the morning. CBP is M-F here, so any int'l diversions on weekends or outside of 9-5 cannot de-plane unless it's an emergency.


I have no association with Spirit Airlines
User currently offlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1619 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7277 times:

Guam is 24/7 365 one of the few US airports operating round the clock....

User currently offlineFlyMIA From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7147 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7106 times:

Quoting COSPN (Reply 7):
Guam is 24/7 365 one of the few US airports operating round the clock....

There are plenty of 24/7 airports out there. Most commercial airports are 24/7 and I have never heard of an airport that is not opened 365 days a year.

Quoting nkops (Reply 6):
ACY (which is smaller than DAB) has a 24-hour tower operation....

Here is a question. What do these guys do in the tower all night long. How much traffic can DAB or ACY get at that time. A few 135's and a random private flight or two?

At major airports TSA will close after the last flight leaves, also some stores will stay open until the last flight leaves also. I was in BOS in January when LHR at the big snow storms and my BA flight was delayed 5 hours and we did not leave until around 1am. The last schedule departure from BOS international terminal is 10:30 but a few of the stores and TSA stayed opened until my BA flight started boarding.

As for CBP I would imagine most large international airports have CBP agents on the field 24/7 due to International cargo flights.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlinetommy212 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7054 times:

in some airports during nighttime and/or christmas day, airports that have ground and tower ATC only operate tower and close ground. i know this definatly happens at STN, from around 11pm til around 5am ground and delivery are closed and all comms are sent to tower. same happens on xmas day except its the whole day as there are barely any flights 15

User currently offlinenkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2662 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 6980 times:

Quoting tommy212 (Reply 9):
in some airports during nighttime and/or christmas day, airports that have ground and tower ATC only operate tower and close ground.

During slow times, the same controller does clearance delivery, ground, and tower.... usually thru the night.

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 8):
Here is a question. What do these guys do in the tower all night long. How much traffic can DAB or ACY get at that time. A few 135's and a random private flight or two?

usually between 1230am- 5am, not much happens... a few random private flights, USCG training flights, the Saturday 1am dept to FRG and the occasional late commercial arrival. 5am usually starts the chatter with clearance delivery.



I have no association with Spirit Airlines
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16861 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 6937 times:

Quoting nkops (Reply 6):
ACY (which is smaller than DAB) has a 24-hour tower operation..

ACY supports the 177th Fighter Wing of the New Jersey Air National Guard as well as the a Coast Guard Air Station, both of which are on alert 24/7.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineA380US From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2358 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 6906 times:

But are there commercial airports that dont have any body in the tower (tower, ground etc.)


www.JandACosmetics.com
User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12242 posts, RR: 35
Reply 13, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 6900 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 3):
You say many but what exactly are you referring to?

Just a few off the top of my head, in my local area:

CWA
Attendance: 0500-2100
WHEN ATCT CLSD ACTVT MALSR RYS 08 & 35 - CTAF ACTVT HIRL RYS 17/35 & 08/26 & PAPI RY 26 - CTAF. PAPI RY 17 OPER 24 HRS.

JMS
Attendance: MON-FRI 0800-1700
48 HRS PPR FOR UNSKED ACR OPNS WITH MORE THAN 9 PSGR SEATS CALL AMGR 701-252-6466. ACR OPS INVOLVING ACFT WITH MORE THAN 9 PSGRS NOT AUZD IN EXCESS OF 15 MINS BEFORE OR AFTER SKED ARR/DEP TIMES WITHOUT PRIOR COORDINATION WITH AMGR AND CONFIRMATION THAT ARFF IS AVBL PRIOR TO LANDING OR TAKEOFF.

DVL
Attendance: 0700-1800
48 HRS PPR FOR UNSKED ACR OPS W/ MORE THAN 30 PSGRS CALL AMGR 701-662-5833.
SKED AIR CARRIER OPNS INVOLVING ACFT WITH MORE THAN 9 PSGRS ARE NOT AUTHORIZED IN EXCESS OF 15 MINS BFR OR AFT SKED ARR/DEP TIMES WO PRIOR COORD WTH ARPT MGR TO ENSURE THAT ARFF IS AVBL.



911, where is your emergency?
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25161 posts, RR: 46
Reply 14, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 6771 times:

Quoting A380US (Reply 12):
But are there commercial airports that dont have any body in the tower (tower, ground etc.)

Yes we've got at least two here in SoCal - SNA and LGB.

Any GA, helicpoter, off schedule or emergency flghts would be on their own to brodcast intentions over the frequency and can operate things like the lights themselves if they come or go.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8317 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6732 times:

Quoting C767P (Reply 4):
San Diego will close up after all departures are gone for the night. No reason for them to be there. I would think it would have to depend on scheduled departures.

I would think that flight schedules don't weight as much on the security hours at a lot of airports. I have personally slept at the gate a few times for a very early departure. It's not unsual to see this practice especially from connecting passengers arriving late at night and connecting to an early morning departure.


User currently offlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1619 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 6418 times:

I ment to say Guam is one of the few airports with flights scheduled around the clock... Flights arrive or depart every hour of every day..Most USA airports do not have arrivals after 1am or departures before 5am...

User currently offlineYYZRWY23 From Canada, joined Aug 2009, 561 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 6127 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
If an unforeseen international diversion would occur then flight would have to wait till the morning and staff come in.

Incorrect, based on a personal experience of mine. Back in 2001(?) I was on TS flying ZIH-YYZ when we lost power in the #1 and made an emergency landing in HRL. We had to wait 2 hours but customs officials drove to HRL and processed us to get off the plane. So I doubt people would have to be on the plane all night.

YYZRWY23



If you don't stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25161 posts, RR: 46
Reply 18, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 5870 times:

Quoting YYZRWY23 (Reply 17):
Incorrect, based on a personal experience of mine. Back in 2001(?) I was on TS flying ZIH-YYZ when we lost power in the #1 and made an emergency landing in HRL. We had to wait 2 hours but customs officials drove to HRL and processed us to get off the plane. So I doubt people would have to be on the plane all night.

And I am talking from 20 years of experience also.

Here is a recent example - TACA flight diverted to ONT and sat there for the night.
Taca Paxs Have 9 Hour Diversion In ONT (by QANTAS747-438 Dec 2 2008 in Civil Aviation)

In another story, a few years back I came into work in the morning with a international 747 that had diverted sitting on a taxiway. There was no ramp staff even to marshall the plane onto a gate, let alone staff to process the passengers.

An back to my point, LAX CBP goes home between 11pm-1am and once they are gone they are gone till the next morning.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineYYZRWY23 From Canada, joined Aug 2009, 561 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 5797 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 18):
And I am talking from 20 years of experience also.

I wasn't trying to undermine your response, just giving my experience. So what was different in my case than?

YYZRWY23



If you don't stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them.
User currently offlinepeteg913 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 5553 times:

In addition to the aforementioned personnel, most airports--mainly those with commercial service--will have at least one Airport Operations agent on duty throughout the entire night, particularly at smaller airports where Ops is also ARFF.

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25161 posts, RR: 46
Reply 21, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 5553 times:

For starters Harlingen is not currently(and suspect it was not in 2001 either) a designated international landing rights airport, so its not normally staffed anyhow so either way someone would have to come out and clear you guys. Waiting overnight would do no benefit as its not like a shift of agents would be coming in the morning.

Secondly, and great benefit is that Harlingen as a town has a good sized CBP station for land-border crossings in the sector that is staffed 24/7 with about 300 agents plus support personnel so it was likely relatively easy to send up some agents to the airport to assist with your flight on short notice.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9611 posts, RR: 52
Reply 22, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 5098 times:

I think some people think a tower is more critical than it actually is during slow operations. Commercial jets can land even if no one is in the tower. Every pilot in the US has operated into airports without a tower. It is a bit different for jets to have to share space with small GA traffic, but it happens every day and all pilots know how to do it.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineEGPH From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4711 times:

EDI sees commercial ops from roughly 5am through to 11pm, there are a number of cargo ops on weekdays only that begin at about 10pm and continue through to about 2-3am. However EDI tower is 24 hrs every day incl weekends when there are no A/C movements usually between 23:00 and 05:30. I believe this is in case there is any emergency traffic. It is also noteworthy that some shops are 24 hrs at EDI despite no pax flights 23:00 - 05:00.

User currently offlineBen175 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 5 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4235 times:

PER is 24/7 365 days a year. Infact one of the busiest peak times is between 11pm and 2:30am for scheduled commercial flights to SE Asia.

25 whiteguy : There are a lot more airports than you'd expect that have commercial service and no tower or flight service.
26 soon7x7 : Many airports also have noise curfews...the little buggers can fly all night but the transports stay put.
27 B767300ER : When I started with TWA before I becme a F/A I worked as a FIC (Flight Information Coordinator) at JFK. Terminal 5. We handles all the ground communic
28 SJC4Me : Due to the noise curfew at SJC, the tower closes at midnight and re-opens at 6am everyday. While the airport itself remains open, theres no ATC during
29 Lufthansa411 : From my experience in BOS, TSA always kept one lane in E open until the last flight of the day was off blocks. Then, a TSA agent would have to confir
30 xtoler : --will have at least one Airport Operations agent on duty throughout the entire night That's right. When I was a F/A based in RIC I knew at least the
31 josekmlb : In MLB tower closes at 2400lcl then MCO app handles everything up to final and will handle clrnc for planes on the gnd. MLB is a class D airfield but
32 RiddlePilot215 : ACY (which is smaller than DAB) has a 24-hour tower operation.... TSA goes home after the last departure is airborne, and opens 2 hours prior to first
33 P3Orion : At facilities like ALB or BUF, which operate 24 hrs, between 2300 and 0600 there is one controller up in the Tower cab and one down in the TRACON. CLE
34 Post contains images RiddlePilot215 : And the guy they have up there now is a hoot. But I'd think that they'd at least have 3 people on duty...You know, in case the guy has to use the toi
35 PSU.DTW.SCE : TVC is an example of an airport where the tower is typically closed between 11pm-6am. NW got into a disagreement with TVC a few years ago an actually
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