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Indian Pilots Threaten To Stop Kabul Flights  
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5867 posts, RR: 4
Posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5763 times:

"Air India pilots have threatened not to operate flights to Kabul if the national carrier does not give "clear-cut guidelines" for flying into Afghanistan as it directly affects the safety of crew and passengers.

The Indian Commercial Pilots Association (ICPA) has said that if the pilots do not get any suitable reply, it would be 'forced to ask our members not to operate flights in these unsafe conditions' to Kabul."

http://news.rediff.com/report/2010/m...ia-pilots-fear-flying-to-kabul.htm

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 2003, 14078 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5669 times:

Well, I´ll be flying into Kabul tomorrow as a flying spanner on a freighter. My boss told us that we won´t get danger pay, but we would be free to refuse to fly there. In any case, unless the aircraft goes AOG, we´ll only be there for 3 hours maximum.

Jan


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5222 times:

I should think the Airport area should be secured.The problem is outside that zone.


Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineFN1001 From Moldova, joined Sep 2008, 234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5209 times:

Does AI fly to Kabul with a 747 like in the picture?


Mai bine să-ţi fie rău decît să-ţi pară rău.
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 2003, 14078 posts, RR: 62
Reply 4, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5209 times:

From what my colleagues told me, there are several safe compounds within the airport security zone (which is being secured by several perimeters of Afghan, UN and NATO soldiers). Direct attacks are practically impossible. And in case of mortar attacks, the buildings are built like bunkers, having re-enforced walls and roofs. There are also sandbag walls all over the place to take cover behind should you get caught in an attack while being in the open.
If the aircraft would go AOG, we would stay in one of these secure houses within the airport security zone and certainly would not go roaming around Kabul town..

Jan


User currently offlinegr8circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3116 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5029 times:

Quoting FN1001 (Reply 3):
Does AI fly to Kabul with a 747 like in the picture?

Haha....I'm sure it must be an A320 or something....newspapers and websites usually just put in the first pic they can lay hands on....the guy who selected that pic probably doesn't even know that it's a 747...


User currently offlineMudboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1167 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4999 times:

I am sure they do the combat spiral, which is awesome, but it makes quite a few people nervous corkscrewing down that fast. I miss doing that in Iraq. If you are on the low-side window, you are looking straight down. The biggest threat is from RPGs. If you are in the open and mortars or rockets come in, just hit the deck and cover your head and your ears. If you are down flat, it would take a direct hit to get you.

[Edited 2010-03-06 06:30:36]

User currently offlinethrufru From Marshall Islands, joined Feb 2009, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4359 times:

My company flies to Kabul and Bagram as well as Iraq with some regularity. We don't get hazard pay or supplemental insurance (most policies don't cover war zones), but we must be on the volunteer list anyway. Surprisingly the trips go pretty senior. The approaches aren't terribly unusual either.

All the procedures that we have at my airline are appropriate for flying into any of these fields. If the Air India pilot group doesn't feel the appropriate actions have been taken by their company, I could see their concern. I would think, however, that their SOP would already account for this.


User currently offlinemascmo From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3765 times:

haha I wouldn't fly into their unless I had military orders!

User currently offlineFly2YYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 1046 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3426 times:

AI do fly their A320s into KBL. There is no corkscrew manouvers flying into KBL.... well not htat I've experienced and have been here for more than a few months. Many of the airlines that do fly into KBL do have security pay, so I'm surprised that many do not offer this.

But anyway I doubt that AI will discontinue flights into KBL to match or better PIAs flights into KBL(from ISB with 733s and there are ATR flights too, but not sure as to where they fly) as well as soon to be introduced flights offered by Safi Airways in a few months to DEL.


User currently offlineairtran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3705 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3362 times:
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Quoting thrufru (Reply 7):

If you are flying for the DOD and you aren't getting hazard pay then your company is witholding it from you. At my company we get hazard pay for AAD, KBL, and OAA. Loadmasters and mechanics get $200 for the round trip, the pilots get $400. Our life insurance is also increased to $1,000,000 for the flight as well.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 4):

Heard that same song and dance before, and it is all well and good until you're standing on the main deck and two mortars drop about 100 yards from the aircraft. If they want to lob a mortar to the airfled, they are going to do it.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 1):
unless the aircraft goes AOG, we´ll only be there for 3 hours maximum.

Pretty standard, but when you do go AOG it sucks. Went AOG for 23 hours with a #2 hydraulic flilter leak once, and it was no fun. OAA has a DVQ that you can stay in if it available, not sure about KBL



Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2971 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3296 times:

The reason Indian pilots are a bit frightened of operating into KBL is to do more with regional geopolitics than anything else. Explaining that in a post here would get it banned for being inflammatory even though it is true.


A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineFly2YYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 1046 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3249 times:

Quoting Cricket (Reply 11):
The reason Indian pilots are a bit frightened of operating into KBL is to do more with regional geopolitics than anything else. Explaining that in a post here would get it banned for being inflammatory even though it is true.

Good call! Right on.

  


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 2003, 14078 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2954 times:

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 6):
I am sure they do the combat spiral, which is awesome, but it makes quite a few people nervous corkscrewing down that fast. I miss doing that in Iraq. If you are on the low-side window, you are looking straight down. The biggest threat is from RPGs. If you are in the open and mortars or rockets come in, just hit the deck and cover your head and your ears. If you are down flat, it would take a direct hit to get you.

I´m just back from my trip. The approach into Kabul was pretty unspectacular (with a 747-400F). We staid there for about two hours while we were unloading some cargo. The airport perimeter is being secured by Dutch and Belgium soldiers, who look as if they know their stuff, there are concrete barriers around the perimeter and all over the place inside with armed guards and armoured cars, where possible intruders would get stopped fast. the problrm is that Kabul is sited in a valley surrounded by high mountains. Sometime apparently the Taliban manage to sneak a mortar or some Katyusha rockets into the mountains and launch them into the direction of the airport.

Acc. to one of our pilots, the main problems are strong side winds during summer, which get nozzled through gaps between the mountains. Then Kabul is a VERY busy airport with a mix of civilian and military traffic plus lots of helicopters thrown in. The departure towards north is also quite spectacular, since there is a mountain ridge just north-west of the airport. With a 747 engine out procedure you´ll barely clear these mountains. Then there is another, much higher ridge north of there. We had to climb and cirle over KBL first to get enough altitude to cross this mountain range.

Lots of interesting aircraft though, and even a DC-3 still in commercial service. Not bad for an aircraft type, which first flew in 1936!

Jan

[Edited 2010-03-08 06:39:38]

User currently offline413X3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2903 times:

Any pictures to share with us on trips like that would be greatly appreciated  

User currently offlineFly2YYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 1046 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2822 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 13):
Lots of interesting aircraft though, and even a DC-3 still in commercial service. Not bad for an aircraft type, which first flew in 1936!

This is a Department of Defense aircraft... so not really in commercial service. But you're right you see a lot of interesting aircraft types!


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5867 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2784 times:

Aircraft, both pax and freighters fly into Kabul on ai

Quoting FN1001 (Reply 3):
Quoting Fly2YYZ (Reply 9):
But anyway I doubt that AI will discontinue flights into KBL to match or better PIAs flights into KBL(from ISB with 733s and there are ATR flights too, but not sure as to where they fly) as well as soon to be introduced flights offered by Safi Airways in a few months to DEL.

ATR fly from Islamabad and Peshawar.

Quoting 413X3 (Reply 14):
Any pictures to share with us on trips like that would be greatly appreciated

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © JPC van Heijst - AirTeamImages


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © JPC van Heijst - AirTeamImages

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 13):
I´m just back from my trip. The approach into Kabul was pretty unspectacular (with a 747-400F).

This one?


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Stefan Stolk

Quoting Cricket (Reply 11):
Quoting Cricket (Reply 11):
The reason Indian pilots are a bit frightened of operating into KBL is to do more with regional geopolitics than anything else. Explaining that in a post here would get it banned for being inflammatory even though it is true.

And rightfully so, there has to be a balance.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 2003, 14078 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2766 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 16):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 13):
I´m just back from my trip. The approach into Kabul was pretty unspectacular (with a 747-400F).

This one?


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Nope, another one. But i don´t know if my boss would appreciate it if I would identify the company I´m working for here on this site. I took some pictures, but I´ll have to sort them first. KBL was just one leg on a thre day trip all over Asia, with PVG being the most distant point.

Jan


User currently offline413X3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2657 times:

Can you share the airplanes routing? If not I understand

User currently offlineUshermittwoch From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2965 posts, RR: 16
Reply 19, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2616 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 17):

Nope, another one. But i don´t know if my boss would appreciate it if I would identify the company I´m working for here on this site. I took some pictures, but I´ll have to sort them first. KBL was just one leg on a thre day trip all over Asia, with PVG being the most distant point.

Jan

So, you've taken on a new job?



Where have all the tri-jets gone...
User currently offlinelowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2588 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 1):
but we would be free to refuse to fly there.

We also do trips into Afghanistan, and we are free to refuse them as well, and then we will have lots of time to look for our next job. Most of our pilot group isn't thrilled about it, but it has recently been event free, and people are getting used to it.



Proud OOTSK member
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 2003, 14078 posts, RR: 62
Reply 21, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2346 times:

Quoting Ushermittwoch (Reply 19):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 17):

Nope, another one. But i don´t know if my boss would appreciate it if I would identify the company I´m working for here on this site. I took some pictures, but I´ll have to sort them first. KBL was just one leg on a thre day trip all over Asia, with PVG being the most distant point.

Jan

So, you've taken on a new job?

No, still the same company, but we have added some new customers. The cargo airline in this case is our sister company, owned partly by the same guy who is part owner and CEO of our maintenance company. We provide most of the maintenance for it (including flying spanners for routes to places where the airline doesn´t have maintenance agreements with local companies). It was in fact a big Asia trip: Germany-France-Kabul- Almaty-PVG- Karagandy-Germany. Almost 40 hours of living on the aircraft.

Jan


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