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AA 757 Engine Change At IAD  
User currently offlineFlyIGuy From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1117 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 9432 times:

As I was working yesterday I noticed that AA has one of it's 757's with winglets on the R-Ramp. Later in the day I noticed UA maintance working on removing the #1 engine. My question is why is UA doing the engine change and not AA? Also where is or was the aircraft flying from or to when it had engine problems? I will try to get the a/c reg when I work today to see if anyone can get somemore information on this...

Thanks in Advance


The opinions I post are of mine and mine alone, not of the airline I work for.
21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePackcheer From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 333 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 9394 times:

A couple days ago, an AA 757 made an emergency landing at RDU with Engine trouble, I believe it was AA1114 MIA - LGA

don't know if it's related or not, but that'd be a pretty short ferry flight from RDU to IAD, but if they ferry it somewhere, why not to one of their bases?

Here's the flight I was talking about
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...4/history/20100304/1140Z/KMIA/KLGA

[Edited 2010-03-06 09:18:30]


Things that fly, Girls and Planes...
User currently offlinebohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2705 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9258 times:

Quoting FlyIGuy (Thread starter):
My question is why is UA doing the engine change and not AA?

It is very common for one airline to do MX work on another airlines' plane. UA has line MX facilities at IAD. AA does not. It is only logical for AA to contract with UA for the work. For a major MX issue like an engine change there might also be an AA mechanic present as well. At IAD UA does a lot of contract work for many airlines operating there. Also if a UA plane has a problem in an major AA city like DFW, it is likely that AA woild do the MX on the UA plane.


User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2891 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9183 times:

Quoting bohica (Reply 2):
It is very common for one airline to do MX work on another airlines' plane. UA has line MX facilities at IAD. AA does not. It is only logical for AA to contract with UA for the work. For a major MX issue like an engine change there might also be an AA mechanic present as well. At IAD UA does a lot of contract work for many airlines operating there. Also if a UA plane has a problem in an major AA city like DFW, it is likely that AA woild do the MX on the UA plane.

Yup. UA has performed mx for us (B6) at IAD, SFO and ORD before.



"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3474 posts, RR: 47
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9121 times:

Acft is 5CC/N655AA. Diverted to IAD due to low oil quantity. From the electronic maint. log it appears TULE was well aware of an oil "consumption" problem with the left engine, was tracking and troubleshooting the problem with complete oil servicing prior to every flight. On this particular flight [2016/04 MIA-LGA] the oil quantity went to "1" in under 2 hours so they've been doing significant troubleshooting since. No indication of an actual engine change being ordered, but there is no oil "leaks" so I would not be surprised if TULE simply gave up on trying to "fix" this problem on the line and has that engine ground shipped to the engine shop for a complete "teardown."


*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5843 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8965 times:

Quoting Packcheer (Reply 1):
A couple days ago, an AA 757 made an emergency landing at RDU with Engine trouble, I believe it was AA1114 MIA - LGA

don't know if it's related or not, but that'd be a pretty short ferry flight from RDU to IAD, but if they ferry it somewhere, why not to one of their bases?

If you've had engine trouble, and had to shutdown and divert, you're NOT gonna be making a ferry flight. The FAA won't approve the ferry permit, most likely.

So I suspect that those are two separate incidents.


User currently offlinePackcheer From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 333 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8870 times:

Based on the news report, they didnt' shut down the engine, they were just concerned with it and chose to divert. I understand you wouldn't ferry a 757 on 1 engine.


Things that fly, Girls and Planes...
User currently offlineboeing767mech From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1027 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8725 times:

Quoting FlyIGuy (Thread starter):
Later in the day I noticed UA maintance working on removing the #1 engine. My question is why is UA doing the engine change and not AA? Also where is or was the aircraft flying from or to when it had engine problems?

Those are 5 mechanics from DCA and a Tech Crew Chief from BOS and ALL OF THEM are AA employees. The engine is being changed because it blew out 16 quarts of oil in 2.4 hours. The engine came from RDU since it was not needed on the airplane with problems in RDU.

David

[Edited 2010-03-06 14:25:12]


Never under-estimate the predictably of stupidty
User currently offlineflylku From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 810 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7616 times:

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 3):
Quoting boeing767mech (Reply 7):
The engine is being changed because it blew out 16 quarts of oil in 2.4 hours.

What is normal oil consumption per hour on that engine?

Could AA have used UA mechanics even though UA 757s have Pratts and I thought AAs do not (or is it a mixed fleet)?



...are we there yet?
User currently offlineboeing767mech From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1027 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 7280 times:

Quoting flylku (Reply 8):
Quoting flylku (Reply 8):
Could AA have used UA mechanics even though UA 757s have Pratts and I thought AAs do not (or is it a mixed fleet)?

Why would we have someone else work on our own airplanes when we have mechanics in the next town. But yes if a mechanic has been to our training on the airplane and is under contract to do work for us then yes they can work on our airplane. Most of the time it is an FBO that is contracted to do work if needed at outstations. I don't know of any station where the enemy (UAL,DL, or any other airline) does work on our airplanes in the US overseas will will have airlines in the OneWorld Flag do some work (oil a engine or fill a tire) but all major stuff like engine changes we will send a field trip.

Our limit is 1.6 pints per hour for the RB211's if I remember right, will look tomorrow at work to make sure of number.

David



Never under-estimate the predictably of stupidty
User currently offlinehamster From United States of America, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 202 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5986 times:

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 3):
It is very common for one airline to do MX work on another airlines' plane. UA has line MX facilities at IAD. AA does not. It is only logical for AA to contract with UA for the work. For a major MX issue like an engine change there might also be an AA mechanic present as well. At IAD UA does a lot of contract work for many airlines operating there. Also if a UA plane has a problem in an major AA city like DFW, it is likely that AA woild do the MX on the UA plane.

How do they know how to charge each other? Who buys the new engine? Who lays out the money and how is it paid back? Can these multi-million dollar engines be financed? Who coordinates how the engine gets from the factory to the plane?How does the engine get from the factory to the plane?


User currently offlinewjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5190 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5185 times:

They charge just like they would for any contract maintenance. And all the majors do a lot of it.

Less likely that anyone buys a "new" engine. Most airlines maintain a fleet of overhauled spares just for this purpose. There are also companies that lease spare engines to you. There are also "care" agreements with manufacturers where they are responsible for providing X hours of engine time per year for a fixed price, including overhauls, and if an engine quits, they pay to change out the engine with a new or overhauled engine.

The engine is usually sent on a tractor-trailer from the nearest site that has one from whomever is providing it. Some can also be flown in.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 12, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5144 times:

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 4):
oil "consumption" problem with the left engine, was tracking and troubleshooting the problem with complete oil servicing prior to every flight.

What was the oil loss attributed to.Was it Bearing leak or a line component at fault.

Quoting flylku (Reply 8):

What is normal oil consumption per hour on that engine?

On RB211-535 approx 1qt/hr average.

regds
MEL.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinemovingtin From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3636 times:

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 3):
Quoting boeing767mech (Reply 9):
Our limit is 1.6 pints per hour for the RB211's if I remember right, will look tomorrow at work to make sure of number.

2.2 PPH is the limit


User currently offlineFlyIGuy From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3476 times:

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 4):
Acft is 5CC/N655AA

The aircraft in question preformed a test flights last night and then was parked at the AA gates for an am departure. So i'm assuming that the engine change was a sucess...

Just my 0.02



The opinions I post are of mine and mine alone, not of the airline I work for.
User currently offlineMax777geek From Italy, joined Mar 2007, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3433 times:

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 3):
Quoting Packcheer (Reply 6):
I understand you wouldn't ferry a 757 on 1 engine.

Would that even be possible, assuming someone would dare ?


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25512 posts, RR: 50
Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3428 times:

Quoting boeing767mech (Reply 9):
I don't know of any station where the enemy (UAL,DL, or any other airline) does work on our airplanes in the US overseas will will have airlines in the OneWorld Flag do some work (oil a engine or fill a tire)

US airlines frequently cover each other at various stations particularly at smaller spokes where not every airline staff's support personnel.
You realize even AA does line contract work on behalf of other carriers including United.

Quoting FlyIGuy (Reply 14):
The aircraft in question preformed a test flights last night

  Test flight for an engine change? Engine power run yes, but test flight I dont think so.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3385 times:

Samller carriers will typically contract with someone else when it comes to things like engine changes at an out station. A couple years ago AA did an engine change for Ryan International on one of their 757's at ORD. Once a carrier gets to be certain size they tend to want to have their own people do it.

User currently offlinewjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5190 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3372 times:

Interesting to see an AA maintenance guy refer to the competition as "the enemy".

I doubt that this is the attitude that folks expect when entrusting their aircraft to AMR for service.

What they expect is a Joe Patroni-like professionalism, where all aircraft deserve to be treated equally, because the job in maintenance is not to win the competiton among carriers, but rather to do the job right, on time.

In the old days, each guy would happily give the other guy a hand, because tomorrow the situation could be reversed. They would not look at the crew, workers AND PASSENGERS flying on someone else's aircraft as "the enemy".

It is very unfortunate (and something the media would have a field day with, particularly after an accident or incident), to see the loss of professionalism in the attitude of maintenance folks and the creeping into what used to have been a cocoon of profesionalism the forces of competition.

What's next? Letting a little oil drip so the other guy has to take a delay? Saying you don't have a part when you really do? Sitting around drinking coffee rather than working on the aircraft so the other guy doesn't get a competitive advantage? Sabotage? If they are "the enemy", all this conduct could be seen by lower-downs as acceptable.

If Allegiant is "the enemy", were its aircraft safe in AA's hands? Are they safer to go to a third-party maintenance facility like AAR for that very reason?

That's a management failure, and one that needs to be addressed quickly, because the logical extension of that attitude is very unfortunate.


User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3348 times:

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 18):
Interesting to see an AA maintenance guy refer to the competition as "the enemy".

I think he meant it in a lighthearted way.


User currently offlinehamster From United States of America, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 202 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3343 times:

Quoting FlyIGuy (Reply 14):
i'm assuming that the engine change was a sucess...

What happens if an engine change isn't successful?

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 17):
Once a carrier gets to be certain size they tend to want to have their own people do it.

Why is that?

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 16):
You realize even AA does line contract work on behalf of other carriers including United.

Has an AA mechanic ever spitefully put sugar in the gas tank of a UAL plane?


User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3474 posts, RR: 47
Reply 21, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3196 times:

Quoting boeing767mech (Reply 9):
Why would we have someone else work on our own airplanes when we have mechanics in the next town. But yes if a mechanic has been to our training on the airplane and is under contract to do work for us then yes they can work on our airplane. Most of the time it is an FBO that is contracted to do work if needed at outstations. I don't know of any station where the enemy (UAL,DL, or any other airline) does work on our airplanes in the US overseas will will have airlines in the OneWorld Flag do some work (oil a engine or fill a tire) but all major stuff like engine changes we will send a field trip.

These type decisions are, IMHO, based strictly on costs. I have had numerous repair work performed by "the enemy" [that is an industry-wide term used in a FUN way]. I recently had a USAir mechanic watch me repack a door-slide because, as he said it: "if I touch the logbook AA will have to pay The Enemy 250 bucks." When I finished he looked it over (without touching anything), said "nice job," shook my hand and went merrily on his way. But I believe the majority of out-sourced line maintenance work is done by independent (non-airline) maintenance companies. Primarily because "the enemy" has its own priorities which will usually place a competitor airline at a disadvantage compared to how a third-party contractor would prioritize its work loads.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 12):
What was the oil loss attributed to.Was it Bearing leak or a line component at fault.

I don't think TULE will know that until they tear apart the engine. All the tests showed no external/internal leaks... at least that I can decipher from the electronic logbook.

Quoting FlyIGuy (Reply 14):
The aircraft in question preformed a test flights last night and then was parked at the AA gates for an am departure. So i'm assuming that the engine change was a sucess...

No test flight, but it was ferried to DFW last night and is flying the line today.

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 18):
Interesting to see an AA maintenance guy refer to the competition as "the enemy".

I can't speak for management, but us "line pukes" call each other "the enemy" all the time. It's just a fun term since we're all "line pukes" anyway.   

Quoting hamster (Reply 20):
Quoting LMP737 (Reply 17):
Once a carrier gets to be certain size they tend to want to have their own people do it.

Why is that?

Used to be due to $$$. Today, it is more about "control" than dollars & cents. At least in AA's case. When you contract out something, you lose (at least) a little bit of the control on when/how something will get done. AA management has always valued control highly which is why you see AA keeping the vast majority of its maintenance "in-house" while the vast majority of its competitors have moved a large majority of their maintenance "out." AA's Maintenance Dept. is under (has been for many years) extreme pressure to keep its costs "close enough" to the "out-sourced" competition to justify the higher costs with the increased "control" of the process.



*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
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