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UK Border Agency Strike - 8th & 9th March  
User currently offlineBALHRWWCC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4413 times:

The PCS union that represents workers at the UK Border Agency have called a 48 hour strike starting this Monday at 0700 GMT.

The strike is expected to affect all passengers arriving at UK ports and airports. Passengers have been advised to travel as normal but to expect delays at immigration.

The chief executive of the agency has said " We have robust plans in place to ensure that the essential work of the UK Border Agency is maintained and the border remains secure. UK border security will not be compromised by this industrial action. We expect that people traveling into the country may experience some delays at border control l, but we will work hard to keep these to a minimum and hope that passengers will welcome the commitment of those staff who will be working despite the strike action to ensure they are seen as quickly as possible"

http://www.articleant.com/gen/14153-...r-delays-due-to-strike-action.html

It is not just UK Border Agency staff that will strike from Monday. Up to 270,000 civil servants in England and Wales and 30,000 civil servants in Scotland are to take part in the strike over cuts to public sector redundancy terms. The walkout will involve Job centre staff, tax workers, coast-guards, courts staff, driving test examiners and other government departments

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8537408.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8538444.stm

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJL418 From Italy, joined Jun 2009, 493 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4367 times:

I am flying to Stansted on Monday, but on an European route, do I have to expect any trouble? Thanks for the information anyway.

User currently offlineoa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27115 posts, RR: 60
Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4327 times:

Quoting BALHRWWCC (Thread starter):
UK Border Agency have called a 48 hour strike

It should be illegal to strike just like the Army and Police force. Any member striking should go to jail.


User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4276 times:

How the hell is it possible that in the UK, border control can strike? In Germany, this is unthinkable, as it would be completely illegal for any policemen (e.g. Federal Police, which handles passport control) to strike.

User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2090 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4269 times:

Quoting oa260 (Reply 2):
It should be illegal to strike just like the Army and Police force. Any member striking should go to jail.

It reminds me of the air controlers stike in the U.S. durng the early 80s. Reagan gave them a day or two to get back to work or they would be terminated. Sure enougn, those controlers who did not return to work were fired.



John@SFO
User currently offlineevomutant From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 503 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4269 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 3):
How the hell is it possible that in the UK, border control can strike? In Germany, this is unthinkable, as it would be completely illegal for any policemen (e.g. Federal Police, which handles passport control) to strike.

Its not like it leaves an open border. No one is put at threat by this, just inconvenienced. The only people prohibited from Strike action in the UK are police officers and military personnel. Even firefighters and prison offers can and have taken strike action.

Banning it achieves nothing. You just get widespread cases of "blue flu", which is far harder to plan for.


User currently offlineoa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27115 posts, RR: 60
Reply 6, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4213 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 4):
Reagan gave them a day or two to get back to work or they would be terminated. Sure enougn, those controlers who did not return to work were fired.

Thats exactly what should happen now . Many things I didnt like about Reagan or Thatcher but they had the balls to crush the unions. Thats what they need in Greece also ATC there think they are god, they should be fired. And if somone is fired for striking their state benefits should be frozen for a year.


User currently offlineBALHRWWCC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4165 times:

Quoting oa260 (Reply 2):
It should be illegal to strike just like the Army and Police force. Any member striking should go to jail.

It's not illegal because the union have given the government the required 7 days notice. It's not the first time they have striked. The striked in 2009.

Quoting JL418 (Reply 1):
I am flying to Stansted on Monday, but on an European route, do I have to expect any trouble? Thanks for the information anyway.

Possibly because you still have to pass through passport control. Last time this happend the average delay at LHR, LGW and STN was just over 10 mins.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 3):
How the hell is it possible that in the UK, border control can strike? In Germany, this is unthinkable, as it would be completely illegal for any policemen (e.g. Federal Police, which handles passport control) to strike.

If the police ran passport control they wouldn't be able to strike.

Quoting evomutant (Reply 5):
Its not like it leaves an open border. No one is put at threat by this, just inconvenienced. The only people prohibited from Strike action in the UK are police officers and military personnel. Even firefighters and prison offers can and have taken strike action.

Banning it achieves nothing. You just get widespread cases of "blue flu", which is far harder to plan for.

Very true. If they weren't unionised then they wouldn't give the required 7 days notice. They would just not turn up or call in sick, as happens in a lot of european countries. Which in turn sees the country plunge into chaos. . This way the government can plan how they are going to deal with the strike.

If required and in severe circumstances the army could be called in to protect the UK's borders


User currently offlineoa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27115 posts, RR: 60
Reply 8, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4131 times:

Quoting BALHRWWCC (Reply 7):
It's not illegal because the union have given the government the required 7 days notice

I meant they should not be allowed to strike at all. Crazy situation, they are a national service that needs to be working all the time.


User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4088 times:

Quoting oa260 (Reply 2):
It should be illegal to strike just like the Army and Police force. Any member striking should go to jail.
Quoting LTU932 (Reply 3):
How the hell is it possible that in the UK, border control can strike? In Germany, this is unthinkable, as it would be completely illegal for any policemen (e.g. Federal Police, which handles passport control) to strike.

But this is not Germany, and they are not police. Thus you are very incorrectly 'comparing' very different roles.

Quoting oa260 (Reply 8):
I meant they should not be allowed to strike at all. Crazy situation, they are a national service that needs to be working all the time.

I have to completely disagree. By your reasoning nurses, doctors, fire service, ambulance service should also not 'be allowed' to strike. Is this what you are saying?


User currently offlineoa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27115 posts, RR: 60
Reply 10, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4050 times:

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 9):
I have to completely disagree. By your reasoning nurses, doctors, fire service, ambulance service should also not 'be allowed' to strike. Is this what you are saying?

I have alot of sympathy for nurses and they dont get half the respect or pay they should , I am not a fan of strikes and even myself I would not and I would cross the picket line.

ATC and other well paid jobs that are a ''security'' ''national protection'' should not be allowed to strike and thats always been my view.


User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3998 times:

Quoting oa260 (Reply 10):
I have alot of sympathy for nurses and they dont get half the respect or pay they should , I am not a fan of strikes and even myself I would not and I would cross the picket line.

ATC and other well paid jobs that are a ''security'' ''national protection'' should not be allowed to strike and thats always been my view.

Then your reasoning is flawed because you firstly argued that they are are 'national service'.......so are nurses, doctors, fire service and ambulance service. That is entirely different from what you've now said above. Surely it cannot be argued that the United Kingdom public are more in need, at any given time, of nurses etc., so I fail to fully understand why you seemingly don't have any problem with those professions going on strike, or taking whatever action they deem necessary.


User currently offlineoa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27115 posts, RR: 60
Reply 12, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3954 times:

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 11):
so I fail to fully understand why you seemingly don't have any problem with those professions going on strike, or taking whatever action they deem necessary.

Sorry with due respect you misunderstand. Where did I say I supported anyone going on strike? I said I have sympathy with a certain sector of the public work force I didnt say I supported them striking so what is your point?


User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3905 times:

Quoting oa260 (Reply 12):
Sorry with due respect you misunderstand. Where did I say I supported anyone going on strike? I said I have sympathy with a certain sector of the public work force I didnt say I supported them striking so what is your point?

Then, with equal respect, I will be most happy to admit if I am misunderstanding something and hence would appreciate a clarification in order that I am straight on your meaning. You clearly state that as a 'national service' the United Kingdom Border Agency should not be allowed to strike. So I am thus asking if your reasoning applies equally to the likes of nurses, doctors, fire service, ambulance service, refuse service etc.......they are equally a 'national service', and in many ways even more so. Thu, quite simply, my point is....is that what you are saying? You are correct in that you did not openly state that you agreed with nurses striking, but yet 'sympathy' for their cause plus stating you would not cross their picket lines is a clear de facto implication that you do. However, having 'sympathy' is irrelevant to my question and such is entirely completely a matter for yourself. I am merely trying to understand the basis of 'national service' as it pertains to the thread topic.


User currently offlineoa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27115 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3874 times:

Quoting oa260 (Reply 10):
I am not a fan of strikes and even myself I would not and I would cross the picket line.

Quoting myself and maybe it would be better to seperate the above sentance to avoid confusion.

''I am not a fan of strikes ''

''Even myself I would not strike ''

'' I would cross the picket line'' ( even if other co workers were striking ).

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 13):
I am straight on your meaning.

So I did not say I wouldnt cross the picket line I stated I would . I dont agree with strikes full stop. I can say I support the Nurses in a pay rise and I do because I believe they are under paid for the things they do. Getting assaulted,dealing with the scum that come of Britains streets after a Saturday night out etc..etc.. I could not support a strike by Nurses or anyone as I am opposed to strikes full stop. I can have personal sympathy with anyone I like yet still oppose their right to strike. For the record I have no sympathy with ATC / Border protection or Cabin Crew. Having been through redundancy myself last October I am lucky to have my job and grateful for it. These people should be the same. Maybe they need to see what its like being without a job.


User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 15, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3824 times:

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 9):
But this is not Germany, and they are not police. Thus you are very incorrectly 'comparing' very different roles.

Here's the thing, in Germany, police are considered state employees (a state employee is what we call a Beamter), just as teachers and people working for government offices are considered state employees. State employees are outright banned from striking. And even if passport control was branched out to a different division of the German government, the passport control agents would still be barred from launching a strike because of their status as state employees.

My point is that since the people working for the UK Border Agency are state employees (whatever the definition for that may be in the UK), they should IMO NOT have th right to strike, because as state employees, they perform a vital function in the government of their region or whole state. In any case, I also believe that border protection and control should fall into the duties of the police, not a separate branch, but that's just how I see this job. I mean, would you e.g. like to see teachers go on strike, with the effect that our kids have to miss school over this? Or would you like a government office to go on strike, just as e.g. you're trying to apply for permanent residence in a foreign country? Think about it.


User currently offlinevv701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7619 posts, RR: 17
Reply 16, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3641 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 15):
in Germany, police are considered state employees (a state employee is what we call a Beamter), just as teachers and people working for government offices are considered state employees. State employees are outright banned from striking.

Here in the UK all state employees except the police and the military can strike provided they have a secret ballot and give a minimum seven days notice. Indeed these days most strikes are by public sector employees like, for example, postmen. It could even be argued that the likely BA FA strike reflects working practices established before BA was privatised and all BA employees were state (public sector) employees.

Although I am not a great advocate of strikes I would certainly always defend the right to strike. And it seems to me to be divisive for it to be illegal for public but not private sector workers to strike.


User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3629 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 15):
Think about it.

Thanks for your explanation, but I certainly I certainly don't need to think about it. What I'm saying is that thankfully the United Kingdom is not Germany.......in the context of it not being permissable for what you term as state employees to strike. You are thus, by your own opinion, stating that such should not have the right to strike despite many of who you state having no vital function in the day-to day running of the country. Let's be honest, is Germany going to collapse because a dept of it's 'government' is on strike? I've been well used to teachers and suck like going on strike, and it certainly has no lasting effect on anyone, much less bring the country to it's knees.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 15):
I also believe that border protection and control should fall into the duties of the police, not a separate branch, but that's just how I see this job.

I would certainly disagree with that completely. Many seem to forget that police are a merely law enforcement agency, and which is an entirely separate role from Immigration. In the United Kingdom the police only have jurisdiction when a crime has been committed within the United Kingdom. A police force should have no role whatsoever in denying/judging entry into a country...it is essentially the role of the Home Office (or whatever the equivalent is in foreign countries), through Immigration Officers, to determine if one meets it's policies. It's certainly not the role of a police officer.....who's sole job is simply to enforce the law of a country.

oa260

Cheers for the explanation and that makes it a bit clearer. I think a certain misunderstanding by me came from the way you originally wrote/worded it.

Quoting oa260 (Reply 14):
the scum that come of Britains streets after a Saturday night out etc..etc.

Have you spent much time in Limerick, Dublin, Dundalk etc. etc.?   


User currently offlineoa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27115 posts, RR: 60
Reply 18, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3613 times:

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 17):
Cheers for the explanation and that makes it a bit clearer. I think a certain misunderstanding by me came from the way you originally wrote/worded it.

No probs I was quite surprised as I rarely disagree with what you say .  
Quoting AirNZ (Reply 17):
Have you spent much time in Limerick, Dublin, Dundalk etc. etc.?

Dublin sometimes, Dundalk and Newry are my local areas and IMHO Newry is worse especially around the bus station and Canal court hotel. Last week after getting the bus from Dublin Airport to Newry I got to Newry at 1am and it was your typical Saturday night urinating on the streets girls on the floor eating take away food. 35 mins up the road in Botanic Avenue and QUB area its the same story.   Id be in favour of the pubs going on strike lol...


User currently offlineJL418 From Italy, joined Jun 2009, 493 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3444 times:

Quoting BALHRWWCC (Reply 7):

Possibly because you still have to pass through passport control. Last time this happend the average delay at LHR, LGW and STN was just over 10 mins.

Ouch, I forgot Britain isn't part of Schengen. Thanks for the informations anyway.


User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3309 times:

Quoting oa260 (Reply 18):
Id be in favour of the pubs going on strike lol...

Kinda agree with you there, lol!!


User currently offlinesignol From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2007, 3017 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3303 times:

Quoting JL418 (Reply 19):
Thanks for the informations anyway.

If you have a biometric ID national ID card or passport, you can use the automatic passport gates at STN. These should be less affected by staff striking  

signol



Flights booked: none :(
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 22, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3197 times:

Quoting signol (Reply 21):
These should be less affected by staff striking

Yes, but what if the automatic passport gates don't work (e.g. maintenance, or if your information doesn't check out and/or something goes wrong during the biometric scan of your face)? Then you'd have to go to an immigration officer for a standard passport control, and with this strike, it could mean you're SOL.


User currently offlinereadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3318 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (4 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2751 times:

Anyone arrived in the UK this morning care to give us an update of there experience?


you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
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