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Pilots-"ADIOS" In Support Of Suspended Controller  
User currently offlinenetjetsintl From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 593 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 18133 times:

Pilots are rallying behind Glenn Duffy, the air traffic controller suspended after allowing his kids to issue instructions to airliners at JFK airport, by ending their transmissions the same way Duffy’s son did — by saying “adios.”

a Delta pilot said- “Thoughts going out to your co-worker there. I think it’s BS what he’s going through.” Other pilots are finishing their transmissions to the tower by saying, “Adios,” according to the New York Daily News. That’s how Duffy’s 9-year-old son ended his communication with the pilot of an AeroMexico flight — who, by the way, responded with an “adios” as well


Read More http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/03...uspended-controller/#ixzz0hgOu3I7r

62 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineP3Orion From United States of America, joined May 2006, 544 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 18144 times:

I don't know? Those pilots are being grossly unprofessional. They just don't realize that using non ICAO Level 87 terminology at a busy International airport, like JFK, could lead to mass confusion and chaos. There will be aluminum showers for sure.   


"Did he say strap in or strap on?"
User currently offlineNateSantiago88 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 34 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 17961 times:

Quoting P3Orion (Reply 1):

Have you ever listened to 5 minutes of LiveATC? Quite normal.


User currently offlinetheredbaron From Mexico, joined Mar 2005, 2191 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 17934 times:

Quoting P3Orion (Reply 1):
I don't know? Those pilots are being grossly unprofessional. They just don't realize that using non ICAO Level 87 terminology at a busy International airport, like JFK, could lead to mass confusion and chaos. There will be aluminum showers for sure.   

LOL.

I did not even respond to the original thread, because as 99% of what the media reports, its blown out of proportion.

I hope this guy (the controler) doesnt loose his job and everyone return to their senses.

Adios amigos!



The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
User currently offlineJetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2763 posts, RR: 33
Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 17898 times:

Quoting NateSantiago88 (Reply 2):
Have you ever listened to 5 minutes of LiveATC? Quite normal.

I'm sure he has heard his fair share of ATC communications, he is an ORD Tower controller afterall. Looked like a sarcastic post to me.

Quoting theredbaron (Reply 3):
99% of what the media reports, its blown out of proportion.

   It's not like the kid was sitting up there by himself, with the supervisor and the dad in the break room sucking on a cigarette and drinking coffee. The father was plugged in on the frequency with him, if anything bad happened, the dad was there to respond and he had situational awareness too. I really am failing to see what the big deal is. I'm glad the young kids are interested in this job, bring them up to the tower more often.

Adios!



No info
User currently offlineajd1992 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 17815 times:

While letting his kids talk over a busy ATC freq. was wrong, I don't think he deserves to lose his job. A warning with instant termination if he does it again, maybe.

I thought Spanish was one of the ICAO languages anyway? I know English isn't the only one, German, French and Russian are a few others as well.


User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4488 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 17803 times:

Quoting NateSantiago88 (Reply 2):
Have you ever listened to 5 minutes of LiveATC? Quite normal.

He was being sarcastic.

Quoting theredbaron (Reply 3):
I did not even respond to the original thread, because as 99% of what the media reports, its blown out of proportion.

Agreed.

My grandfather was the president of a regional bank and he used to take me to work with him when I was little. He'd always let me sign my name under his signature on legal documents. AFAIK, everyone else just thought it was "cute." Should he have done it? Likely not. But what harm did it cause with him looking over my shoulder?

Technically I shouldn't even say "good morning" to ATC. But does it happen?   

Adios.



I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently offlineGlom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2815 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 17766 times:

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 4):
I'm glad the young kids are interested in this job, bring them up to the tower more often.

I'd like to go up to the tower more often. I'd love to be able to visit the tower at LHR. I see it every day, standing there all tall and such with its panoramic views. Who can get me in?


User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2241 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 17732 times:

Quoting Glom (Reply 7):
I'd love to be able to visit the tower at LHR

If you're ever in the Southampton area and have the time, go see the Area and Terminal control centre at Swanwick. Very impressive to me, and I'm a controller. It makes the US facilities look like dumps.



I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlinenetjetsintl From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 17727 times:

.

Quoting Glom (Reply 7):
I'd like to go up to the tower more often. I'd love to be able to visit the tower at LHR. I see it every day, standing there all tall and such with its panoramic views. Who can get me in?

I've been a pilot for 14 years, I'd love to visit several ATC towers ( specially LAX, and JFK) but I know its not possible... here in the States you almost need the governor's approval.....


User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2241 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 17589 times:

Quoting netjetsintl (Reply 9):
I've been a pilot for 14 years, I'd love to visit several ATC towers ( specially LAX, and JFK) but I know its not possible... here in the States you almost need the governor's approval.....

Nope. Just make the phone call.



I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineJetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2763 posts, RR: 33
Reply 11, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 17589 times:

That's not true. I have no license or anything. I don't even have a SIDA badge yet (1 more week!!!), and I have been in the Tinker AFB tower twice.


No info
User currently onlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4646 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 17559 times:

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 10):
Nope. Just make the phone call.

Yea good luck with that, I've been in a few towers but its all i knowing the right people and it varies from airport to airport.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 17278 times:

Quoting netjetsintl (Thread starter):

My feelings on this are somewhat split. A suspention.. yes, fired... No....and the issue is closed. This business.. especially ATC and cockpit crew is not a place for breaking the rules and doing things like this. My question though is.. is he the JFK controller that often would hand off to Center using the native language of the airline he was handling...? I heard that once and that it pretty cool and breaks no rules. I think it actually is a nice touch

[Edited 2010-03-09 06:40:29]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6097 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 17223 times:

Quoting P3Orion (Reply 1):

Guess the controllers here at SFO need to be suspended for every "Aloha" said to departing Hawaii flights!

Seriously, these are human's up there and in the ground facilities. They are 100% dedicated to a professional and safe enviroment in which they do a splended job. To take your son to work and allow him the 2 seconds of joy, who know, maybe a future controller. Respectfully I think some need to lay off and I back the controller and the pilot all the way!



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11211 posts, RR: 52
Reply 15, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 17205 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 13):
A suspention.. yes, fired... No....and the issue is closed.

I'm actually in favor of a small fine, then back on the line. No down time. A controller can correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard that JFK is one of the towers that could not stand to lose a controller right now. This is a dumb way to lose a clearly qualified controller.



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 2966 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 17135 times:

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 12):
all i knowing the right people

For sure. My dad met an FAA guy once, and 2 weeks later I was in LAX's tower. By the way, it's an amazing place. the outdoor deck is a great place to take pictures.



The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
User currently offlineLHR27C From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 1279 posts, RR: 16
Reply 17, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 17006 times:

Quoting Glom (Reply 7):
I'd love to be able to visit the tower at LHR. I see it every day, standing there all tall and such with its panoramic views. Who can get me in?

It used to be quite easy when it was landside but the new VCR is much more of a hassle as people have to get airside passes now. Incidentally it is a great view from the top - I went up before it opened and you can see most of the Central London landmarks on a good day.



Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned forever skyward
User currently offline797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1891 posts, RR: 27
Reply 18, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 16856 times:

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 5):
I thought Spanish was one of the ICAO languages anyway? I know English isn't the only one, German, French and Russian are a few others as well.

Totally true. Saying Adios to a Spanish-speaking carrier is absolutely normal and harmless. Plus, give me a break. In Italy, ATC communications are held in english. When an Alitalia plane lands in FCO, the tower goes "Alitalia XXX, Buongiorno, cleared to land..." and such. So, are they going to star flaming controllers for greeting in different languages related to the carriers? PLEASE!

Quoting as739x (Reply 14):
Guess the controllers here at SFO need to be suspended for every "Aloha" said to departing Hawaii flights!

True... the systematic way the FAA works makes me sick sometimes. It should be strict enough to allow some kind of flexibility. I foresee robots taking over aviation one of these days... this way we won't have to deal with the stupidity of getting a great controller out of his seat for showing his boy how cool his future could be.

ADIOS!



Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
User currently offlineGlom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2815 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 16818 times:

Quoting LHR27C (Reply 17):
It used to be quite easy when it was landside but the new VCR is much more of a hassle as people have to get airside passes now.

I know how to get airside. Depart from Wycombe, call up Heathrow and ask for special VFR clearance to enter the zone and land. Shouldn't be a problem to get it, surely.   

Alternatively, I could walk into terminal 3, shout "bomb!" and while everyone is evacuating in a panic, I can then stroll through the terminal to the tower.

The latter is actually probably more likely to work.


User currently offlineusa330300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 16752 times:

Glenn Duffy needs to be permanently removed from his position and his credentials revoked. It is that simple. There is absolutely NO room for any error in an ATC environment. The fact that some pilots are supporting him is ludicrous. It certainly begs the question of their professionalism as well. I certainly don't want to be in the flight deck with one of these derelicts, and be given instruction from a child in ATC.

User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4913 posts, RR: 43
Reply 21, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 16741 times:

It appears the big error here is not the actual act, it is that the act became public. And the FAA is obliged to "do something" about it for public consumption.

When one reads these message strings, you see a large difference in the reaction of pilots and controllers, vs. the reaction of "Joe Public". Only a pilot well experienced in operating out of busy controlled environments, or a controller who controls that busy environment would truly understand that in no way was safety compromised, nor was any harm done.

But someone on the outside would have a hard time understanding that. "Non-standard" phrases and expressions are used all the time in passing, either thanks for a favour done, apology for an error, respect for another carrier's home country, or lately Olympic Hockey scores. It doesn't take any extra time, it is not dwelled upon, it is quickly acknowledged and everything continues normally and safely.

I fly over JFK all the time on Caribbean flights, I will most certainly "Adios" the controller out of respect and compassion for one that got caught in the beaurocratic mesh.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineGlom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2815 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 16607 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 21):
But someone on the outside would have a hard time understanding that. "Non-standard" phrases and expressions are used all the time in passing, either thanks for a favour done, apology for an error, respect for another carrier's home country, or lately Olympic Hockey scores. It doesn't take any extra time, it is not dwelled upon, it is quickly acknowledged and everything continues normally and safely.

Standard phraseology is important to allow the efficient passing of important information and instructions. If everyone was just winging it on passing their details over a possibly static filled frequency, there would be a lot of "Was that heading 180 or flight level 180 or Cessna 180?" That's a good thing. It is also a good thing to have a general policy of sticking to the business to avoid clogging the channel with inanity. However, there is still reform for brief informality. It is one of the highlights of RTF. Controllers are generally really nice guys... except for that one at Elstree... or that one at Luton, but then I did have it coming that time.

I for one don't change frequency without giving a quick courtesy thank you.


User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21522 posts, RR: 55
Reply 23, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 16514 times:

I noticed this as well - nice way for the pilots to show their support should they choose to do so.

Quoting NateSantiago88 (Reply 2):
Have you ever listened to 5 minutes of LiveATC? Quite normal.

I think you missed the sarcasm inherent in his post.

Quoting usa330300 (Reply 20):

Take it to the other thread if you want to have a debate on the rights/wrongs of the event - let's try and keep this one on topic.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineAv8tor From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 16414 times:

Quoting P3Orion (Reply 1):
I don't know? Those pilots are being grossly unprofessional. They just don't realize that using non ICAO Level 87 terminology at a busy International airport, like JFK, could lead to mass confusion and chaos. There will be aluminum showers for sure.

You're joking right? If not, lighten up a little.


25 peterjohns : Of course he is! If you read the other thread you will notice the controllers there had to take a lot of hits. Adios , Muchachos!!
26 HotelDJRomeo : If you've ever listened to 5 minutes of LiveATC for ORD, you've probably heard him. Without getting too far off topic - sure there is room for error.
27 N766UA : Have you ever heard of sarcasm? Good for them! I listened to a few minutes of liveatc the other night, and I picked up a few Adioses, as well as that
28 Post contains images bohica : I can't think of a better way to get arrested.
29 FX1816 : It is fitting that the pilots and controllers out there support him unlike some "know alls" on here. Adios/FX1816
30 N766UA : Another one who just doesn't have a clue.
31 Fly2HMO : Kudos to the pilots showing support for the controller.
32 RP TPA : Aside from the fact that the "kid in the tower" thing is being blown waaaaaaay out of proportion, the use of foreign phrases and greetings is not unco
33 Speedbird128 : Somebody with zero clue of ATC. I wish LiveATC never existed. Misinformed, ummm, ummm, persons (i had to be careful there otherwise i'd get deleted)
34 2H4 : I'd just like to reiterate this, as a reminder:
35 borism : Arabic, Chinese, English, French, Russian and Spanish Nice one! Adios Amigos!
36 rolfen : If pilots and ATC were to follow perfect terminology and whatnot all the time, pilots will start dying out of boredom in midair, and planes will cras
37 Post contains images IAHFLYR : Awesome P3Orion was totally joking. Adios' Mi Amigos!
38 borism : Boy, ATC sarcasm is really hard to crack for most of the people, even on a.net...
39 Sankaps : The issue is not the use of harmless non-standard phrases like "adios" or transmitting hockey scores, which is perfectly fine if the exchange is betw
40 Lowrider : I wish I had know about this when I flew into JFK a few days ago. Until I hear otherwise, I'm in. Don't worry, pilots have a parting phrase for peopl
41 airproxx : Agreed a 100% !!! You guys in USA have sincerely some high quality controllers (who actually should show some tricks to our so called "aiguilleurs du
42 Post contains links TOLtommy : So is that your opinion on all jobs or just this one? Dad standing by isn't always the best way to do your job.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerof
43 Post contains images P3Orion : "See you next time." perhaps?
44 AirCalSNA : Seems to me the biggest issue here is the lack of professional judgment demonstrated by letting your kid talk on ATC. Or at least the perception of a
45 MCOflyer : While I may not be associated with the airline industry anymore, I agree with the pilots and other people supporting this guy. I support him too. C'mo
46 FX1816 : I would be surprise if his job didn't survive. Adios/FX1816
47 Post contains images AAEXP : Yes, openness in government is a really bad thing. It would be much better if we could cover everything up and keep the general public ignorant of un
48 Post contains images Maverick623 : Fully agree! While it's more difficult to get into your busier towers unless you know someone, going down to any run-of-the-mill class C or D facilit
49 SPREE34 : Don't fly. If this gets you upset, the real safety issues might cause you serious emotional issues. I am NOT slamming you. I am serious. You should n
50 2H4 : Unfortunately, if anything can put an end to that, it's kneejerk reactions from people (and media) who are unwilling to educate themselves before spo
51 Maverick623 : Why? You said it yourself: So how could you be certain one way or another how tower managers, specifically the one at JFK, think about this?
52 juicejones : Like everything else in our hyper-sensitive world these days, this issue has also been grossly blown out of proportion. Kudos to both the pilots and A
53 SPREE34 : I agree with you %100. In this particular case, there is nothing to hide, or anything unpleasant. Just people who have taken media hype, hook, line,
54 Mir : Openness is great, but openness combined with a sensationalist media is a recipe for trouble. -Mir
55 D L X : Sounds like a problem with the media.
56 SPREE34 : I shall drink a toast to you, Sir. On the other hand, my actions my be questioned, leading to a thread on alcoholism in pilots and controllers, and h
57 Mir : I'd say you're right. -Mir
58 AAEXP : I agree, openness is good when it concerns others but not ourselves...
59 LHRspotter : This got me laughing even more than the first joke by P3Orion. Who says that guys on airliners.net don't have any sense of humour. Adios amigo.
60 airbazar : I agree with almost everything you say except the first sentence. Yes, he should be penalized. His supervisor should be penalized even more for allow
61 copter808 : usa330300 I don't think I would want to be on the flight deck with YOU either. I would however, not hesitate to fly with most of the other posters he
62 Post contains links srbmod : This should have been posted in the following thread: Boy Talks To Pilots At JFK - Part 2 (by scbriml Mar 7 2010 in Civil Aviation) This is not notewo
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