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787 Side Of Body Modification Time  
User currently offlineUAL747-600 From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 593 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 11833 times:

I apologize if this has been brought up before but how long does it uaually take for Boeing to complete 787 side of body modifications. It appears that the most recent one N6066Z took almost 2 months (Jan. 12 - Mar. 9) to complete. Have all the modifications taken this long? I wonder how much longer until all that need it are completed?

Thanks

UAL 747-600

12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31259 posts, RR: 85
Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 11801 times:
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Well it depends on the frame.

Boeing have developed a design change so the new planes being built should have the fix already in place.

For those aircraft that have not yet had the wingbox attached to the fuselage, they have plenty of space to work, so those fixes do not take very long.

The longest delay was for the planes already assembled because there was limited space to work. At least three of those have completed (N787EX, N787BA and N7874) and I expect the rest are well underway by now.


User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11225 times:

Quoting UAL747-600 (Thread starter):
It appears that the most recent one N6066Z took almost 2 months (Jan. 12 - Mar. 9) to complete.

That's about right.

Quoting UAL747-600 (Thread starter):
Have all the modifications taken this long?

In that range, yes.

Quoting UAL747-600 (Thread starter):
I wonder how much longer until all that need it are completed?

They're getting faster...they should all be completed long before the flight test program ends.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
At least three of those have completed (N787EX, N787BA and N7874)

N787BX as well.

Tom.


User currently offlineDan23 From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11184 times:

N787FT and N787ZA are also complete. 787's from LN16 onwards will be complete with modified SOB when they roll out of the factory.

So only Line Numbers 7, 8, 10-15 are left to be modified. I believe LN7 and LN8 are being worked on now and LN10 will move into the tent once LN9 is removed. The usual suspects on the scene may be able to confirm this.

With 3 frames being modified concurrently it would appear there is 5-6 months work left to complete them all.


User currently offlinepetera380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 354 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 10701 times:
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LN9 is also complete, waiting to be moved out of the tent.

User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3756 posts, RR: 27
Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7863 times:
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consider that with the flight test a/p's done, there really is no rush to do the others on a 3 shift basis... other than the rental cost on the tent.

User currently offlineWarpSpeed From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 595 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 6026 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 2):
Quoting UAL747-600 (Thread starter):
It appears that the most recent one N6066Z took almost 2 months (Jan. 12 - Mar. 9) to complete.

That's about right.

Does this time frame take into account the restoration of access doors, systems, seals and fasteners that are removed for SOB Mod? From what I gather, this is no simple task as when Boeing announces completion of an SOB Mod, the subject plane is diverted for a while to another area to be properly buttoned-up.

Quoting Dan23 (Reply 3):
787's from LN16 onwards will be complete with modified SOB when they roll out of the factory.

but only through aircraft 49. Beginning with aircraft 50, all 787's will incorporate a redesign of the area that lacked structural strength and, thus, eliminate the need for SOB Mods of any kind.



DaHjaj jaj QaQ Daghajjaj !!!!
User currently offlinekilltherabbit From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5810 times:

In response to WarpSpeed:

After Boeing makes a change to the wing box area like they are doing from frame 50 on, do they have to test that change on the test jig and pull the wing to 150%, or is finite analysis good enough?

To me this seems like a major change, and the FAA would want them to test it.


User currently offline7673mech From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 736 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5276 times:
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Quoting kanban (Reply 5):
consider that with the flight test a/p's done, there really is no rush to do the others on a 3 shift basis... other than the rental cost on the tent.

And the rental cost of two Hangar bays at the ATS facility.
This is costing A LOT.


User currently offlineWarpSpeed From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 595 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4624 times:

Quoting killtherabbit (Reply 7):
After Boeing makes a change to the wing box area like they are doing from frame 50 on, do they have to test that change on the test jig and pull the wing to 150%, or is finite analysis good enough?

To me this seems like a major change, and the FAA would want them to test it.

Good question and I had wondered the same...however, while I do not know the answer, I would not be surprised if someone else chimes in. IIRC, Airbus had some structural issues with the wing of its A380; the fix to which was "paper certified" rather than having verification via full scale testing. While not the same situation here, it could be that Boeing could do small scale testing and/or computer modeling to prove that the update is A-OK. Once again, I defer to those more knowledgeable.



DaHjaj jaj QaQ Daghajjaj !!!!
User currently offlinedynamicsguy From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 883 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3965 times:

Quoting WarpSpeed (Reply 6):
Beginning with aircraft 50, all 787's will incorporate a redesign of the area that lacked structural strength and, thus, eliminate the need for SOB Mods of any kind

You sure about that line number? It doesn't make sense to incorporate a change like that at a line number other than one of the blockpoints.

Quoting killtherabbit (Reply 7):
To me this seems like a major change, and the FAA would want them to test it.

The likelihood of Boeing building another static test airframe just to test this is vanishingly small. Like any other structural change it will certainly be certified by analysis, with the possibility of some small-scale testing.


User currently offlineWarpSpeed From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 595 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3887 times:

Quoting dynamicsguy (Reply 10):
You sure about that line number? It doesn't make sense to incorporate a change like that at a line number other than one of the blockpoints.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-body-mod-into-787-production.html

Flightglobal noted "program sources" in citing plane 50 as the introduction point of a new wing join. So, take it for what its worth.



DaHjaj jaj QaQ Daghajjaj !!!!
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3784 times:

Quoting WarpSpeed (Reply 6):
Does this time frame take into account the restoration of access doors, systems, seals and fasteners that are removed for SOB Mod?

Yep.

Quoting WarpSpeed (Reply 6):
From what I gather, this is no simple task as when Boeing announces completion of an SOB Mod, the subject plane is diverted for a while to another area to be properly buttoned-up.

Most of the mods have been restored in place.

Quoting killtherabbit (Reply 7):
After Boeing makes a change to the wing box area like they are doing from frame 50 on, do they have to test that change on the test jig and pull the wing to 150%, or is finite analysis good enough?

Although the FAA could always insist, it's very unlikely they'd require a full scale test for something like that.

Quoting killtherabbit (Reply 7):
To me this seems like a major change, and the FAA would want them to test it.

They would...but "test it" and "do a full scale ultimate strength test" are very different things. By the time line 50 rolls around, they'll have oodles of test data from the existing static airframe, probably some loads and structural data from the flying frames, and all the work they did on design/test/analysis during the side-of-body mod. I'd be very very surprised if they don't have enough fidelity in the loads and models to certify the change without another full ultimate load strength test.

Keep in mind that they don't even redo the ultimate strength test for major derivatives, and the change between, say, a 777-200 original and a 777-300ER is a whole lot larger than between the different side-of-body blockpoints of the 787-8.

Tom.


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