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CX Set To Offer Premium Economy Cabin  
User currently offlineLondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1494 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10426 times:

According to Business Traveller, Cathay Pacific is seriously considering the introduction of a premium economy class. The new seating could be fitted as early as 2012.
It would seem that Cathay Pacific's decision has been influenced by the fact that more of its competitors are installing premium economy seating. Already the likes of AF, BA, JL, NH, NZ and QF offer such a cabin on their longer flights.

http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/cathay-warms-to-premium-economy

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePacific From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2000, 1051 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 10241 times:

I wonder if this would mean 10-abreast on their 77Ws for the 'standard' Economy in the future.

User currently offlineLondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10148 times:

Quoting Pacific (Reply 1):
I wonder if this would mean 10-abreast on their 77Ws for the 'standard' Economy in the future.

That must be the worry with any B777-operator which is planning to either upgrade or launch a premium economy prooduct. Two examples which spring to mind are AF and NZ.


User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1767 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10043 times:

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 2):
That must be the worry with any B777-operator which is planning to either upgrade or launch a premium economy prooduct. Two examples which spring to mind are AF and NZ.

Probably. I personally think premium economy is a good revenue generator, but not much of a market share driver. So sacrificing the quality of standard economy would probably make them less competitive.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9835 times:

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 2):
That must be the worry with any B777-operator

..you mean adding extra seats and potential revenue without having to change to a larger plane..  



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineaquariusHKG From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2010, 94 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9756 times:

There was a survey a couple months ago going to some Asia Miles (in case you don't know, CX's frequent flyer program) members asking what to expect and what sorta price one is willing to pay

The description on the survey is a 38" pitch 19" wide seat. Not sure what's the outcome of that survey goes, but probably convinced CX to go ahead with the plan.


User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9706 times:

Is it too much to ask for 777 operators to fly 9 abreast in economy, and 8 abreast in premium economy? That way they're not killing Y passengers with 10 abreast. Unless Boeing redesigns the cabin of the 777 with thinner sidewalls to increase some seat width, 10 abreast will remain agonizing.

Anyone have an idea of about what a Y+ seat will cost vs. Y?



We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
User currently offlineLondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9668 times:

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 6):
Is it too much to ask for 777 operators to fly 9 abreast in economy, and 8 abreast in premium economy?

Look at the new NZ layout on its B777-300ERs (these enter service next November and will initially be used on the AKL-LAX route) and that plane features 10-across in Y but only 6-across in Y+


User currently offlinetrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4769 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9668 times:
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Quoting Pacific (Reply 1):
I wonder if this would mean 10-abreast on their 77Ws for the 'standard' Economy in the future.

oh the joys of the days of the 9 abreast Tristars!


User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12476 posts, RR: 37
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 9603 times:

I wonder if CX will introduce a new three class layout with the introduction of its new J Class, which is also expected later this year; this would be (a) a new J Class to replace F and the current C class, (b) a Premium Economy service, and (c) standard economy.

There is always the risk that CX will go for 10 abreast in Economy, but I sincerely hope it doesn't; I knew PR has gone for this in its 77Ws, but most regional competitors are sticking to nine abreast and if CX still wants to consider itself as "up there with the best", then it will stick with nine abreast. However, how valuable an accolade that is, in financial terms, I don't know; better to be profitable than to be the best?


User currently offlineViveAF From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2001, 198 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 9561 times:

Interesting... we had a presentation from CX recently and I brought up the subject of how much middle-management traffic they were losing by not having an Econ+ cabin on the LHR/HKG... most of our traffic has migrated to BA VS QF NZ who all offer this... The reaction, at that time, was that CX had 'no plans' for such a venture as they considered their Economy offering was superior to that of the other carriers' - may be true, but these pax have been told that business class is no longer an option for them, so premium economy cabin travel has become their new holy grail! Would like to see CX introduce this as what they say is true, their economy class does take some beating...

User currently offlineCX flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6605 posts, RR: 55
Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9242 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 9):
I wonder if CX will introduce a new three class layout with the introduction of its new J Class, which is also expected later this year; this would be (a) a new J Class to replace F and the current C class, (b) a Premium Economy service, and (c) standard economy.

The intention has always been that the 77W fleet would be divided into two configurations and that the later aircraft would have no first class. So, at the moment it looks like eventually we will have both 3 and 4 class 77Ws.


User currently offlinetrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4769 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 9093 times:
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Quoting trex8 (Reply 8):
oh the joys of the days of the 9 abreast Tristars!

actually I meant 10 across!!
it was more fun in the Convair 880s!!


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6431 posts, RR: 38
Reply 13, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 8891 times:

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 7):

That's semi due to the fact that NZ has no F cabin. So in effect, you could nearly align it with more of a business class style seat for a Y+ price.


It'd be interesting to see if they do implement it and how it'd affect configurations. J already takes up a massive chunk of the plane leaving 238 seats for Y. How many seats would they include?



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineCysafan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 8115 times:

NZ new B777-300ER Premium economy class looks like a great idea but sadly it is too expensive!! Ouch!!!  

User currently offlineLondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7564 times:

Quoting ViveAF (Reply 10):
The reaction, at that time, was that CX had 'no plans' for such a venture as they considered their Economy offering was superior to that of the other carriers' - may be true, but these pax have been told that business class is no longer an option for them, so premium economy cabin travel has become their new holy grail! Would like to see CX introduce this as what they say is true, their economy class does take some beating...

This is the standard response trotted out by SQ to a similar question. It's an outdated response when you consider how premium economy products have changed recently.


User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1767 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6763 times:

Related to the CX move, here's an interesting article on how airlines are reducing capacity in F and J while increasing Y+ offerings:


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601209&sid=a85EOHkX_2Jc

March 15 (Bloomberg) -- Qantas Airways Ltd. is scrapping first-class cabins complete with sheepskin-covered mattresses, while Air France-KLM Group is ripping out some of its cheapest seats as airlines reconfigure planes to win downgraded business travelers.

Air France-KLM charges $2,218 for an April 2 premium- economy return ticket from Singapore to Paris, less than half the price of business class. An economy ticket costs $1,432, according to its Web site.

Air New Zealand is adding more premium-economy seats, where couples can relax together and dine at a common table. The Auckland-based carrier also plans to fit the new “Skycouch” in economy, which converts three seats into a bed for two. Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd. and Malaysian Airline System Bhd. have also said they may add premium-economy seats on some planes.

“The number of premium-economy products is likely to carry on growing,” said Peter Morris, chief economist at London-based aviation consultant Ascend. “It will become more and more common because people are realizing that they will miss out on a revenue stream if they don’t put it in.”

AirAsia X, Asia’s only long-haul discount carrier, plans to install some seats that recline 180 degrees to lure budget- conscious business travelers. The carrier can make a profit from those seats even at a third of the price of standard business- class fares, said Chief Executive Officer Azran Osman Rani.


User currently offlinejustloveplanes From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1057 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6567 times:

787 8 abreast might be a nice premium economy base to build on. How wide would those seats be vs some of these other offerings from CX, NZ, AF etc.

User currently offlineindio66 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 475 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6542 times:

A good idea in my view, as many companies will pay a little more for business travel for mid and lower level employees, but will not pay the 7-10X fare for full business over economy. These seats seem to pick up affulent leisure travelers as well.

Is is fare to say that Qantas A380 has the most "premium" premium eco? What would be next, VS?


User currently offlineLondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6471 times:

Quoting justloveplanes (Reply 17):
787 8 abreast might be a nice premium economy base to build on. How wide would those seats be vs some of these other offerings from CX, NZ, AF etc.

As noted above, CX has not yet installed a premium economy so no details are available. But I do feel that 8-across on a B787 will not match the higher standards about to be set for by the new premium economy products from NH and NZ.

NZ's new premium economy, which will first appear on a brand new B777-300ER in November, will be configured only six-across 2-2-2.


User currently offlinejustloveplanes From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1057 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 6298 times:

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 19):
NZ's new premium economy, which will first appear on a brand new B777-300ER in November, will be configured only six-across 2-2-2

Interesting commment, as there seems to be a wide variety of the description "premium economy" Six abreast in a 777 is roomier side to side than UA's old business class. UA's current B class (though lie flats) is 8 abreast.

Thai premium economy was 7 abreast on an A340-500 as was Singapores (flew one trip on each).

I think NZ's new stuff is really "business economy" rather than "premium economy"... and I like it!


User currently offlineLondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 6271 times:

Quoting justloveplanes (Reply 20):
I think NZ's new stuff is really "business economy" rather than "premium economy"... and I like it!

I agree. The only problem is that ordinary Y pax will eventually lose out. Once NZ's "business economy" arrives on its first B777-300ER the carrier will start to downgrade normal Y class from 9-across to 10-across (on the B777s).


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15745 posts, RR: 27
Reply 22, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 6267 times:

Quoting justloveplanes (Reply 20):
I think NZ's new stuff is really "business economy" rather than "premium economy"... and I like it!

It is interesting to see how different airlines do premium economy differently. Some are more of a business class light product while others are little more than increased seat pitch. I am curious to see how Y+ will evolve in the future.

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 6):
10 abreast will remain agonizing.

Not agonizing enough for people not to fly it, apparently.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently onlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25346 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5903 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 22):
Quoting EA772LR (Reply 6):
10 abreast will remain agonizing.

Not agonizing enough for people not to fly it, apparently.

Fortunately for the airlines operating 10-abreast 777s, and similarly uncomfortable aircraft like 9-abreast A330s operated by some charter/leisure carriers, 99% of passengers are unaware of such seating differences and are only interested in obtaining the lowest fare.


User currently offlineMarcoPoloWorld From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 639 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5712 times:

I've been suggesting that Cathay add a Y+ cabin for quite some, so this might be good news!

Quoting kaitak (Reply 9):
I wonder if CX will introduce a new three class layout with the introduction of its new J Class, which is also expected later this year; this would be (a) a new J Class to replace F and the current C class, (b) a Premium Economy service, and (c) standard economy.

So does this mean that they'll finally ditch the fishbone config in longhaul Business?


25 CX flyboy : Indications are that yes they will go although the new seats might still be slightly slanted although I have heard slanted towards the windows like t
26 GayStudPilot : DL is in the early stages of discovery on a potential premium economy offering on their 77Ls and 744s.
27 slinky09 : All good, but don't forget on their current 777s NZ's PE is 9 abreast! Agreed, while BA's may be at the bottom of the rank, being basically a bigger
28 LondonCity : At least one scheduled carrier has also adopted 9-across on the A330. Air AsiaX, which can be considered a scheduled carrier targetting both leisure
29 MarcoPoloWorld : Thanks for the update - that's great news.
30 JoeCanuck : What's the word on the Thompson seats? Is anybody in the pipeline to play guinea pig? Too me, they would seem to be a great possible solution to 10 wi
31 trex8 : IIRC DL were supposed to get the thompson seats but they dumped the idea due to bad feedback during preliminary pax showings
32 MD-90 : You know, the next time I go to New Zealand I'd really like to fly NZ but a 13 hour flight on a 10-abreast 777 does not appeal to me at all.
33 jfk777 : Hmmm ? J/C/ Y+ and Y sounds like an ambitious plan to out do Virgin Atlantic ? What would be the difference from C to J ? Y+ to C? Cathay is a very g
34 JoeCanuck : I did an 11+ hour flight from DXB to Perth on EK....absolutely terrible. The main problem, though, was not the width of the seats or even the legroom
35 BMI727 : That is the thing. Manufacturers can design their planes with more space, but the airlines that actually have to make money flying them will almost a
36 Kaiarahi : NZ's layout has much more to do with the new skycouches in Y than its Y+.
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