Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
BA To Hire A/c In The Event Of Strikes.  
User currently offlineSPEEDBIRD174 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 22 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11566 times:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Bus..._Peace_Talks_With_Unite_Break_Down

The above article from Sky News website states "BA chief executive Willie Walsh says BA would hire 23 fully-crewed planes from charter companies to help run flights from Heathrow in the event of industrial action".

Does anyone have any information on what types would be hired, surely these a/c won't have BA's interiors and therefore be lacking in IFE and further on-board comforts that passengers would have payed extra for/expected. Why can't BA simply hire flight & cabin crews to crew BA's birds rather than another companies?
Thank you.

SPEEDBIRD174.

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinerobffm2 From Germany, joined Dec 2006, 1117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11531 times:

I'm already surprised that there are 23 fully-crewed planes availalble at short notice...

User currently offlineFCAFLYBOY From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2006, 599 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11523 times:

One very simple reason for that - Training!

How many Charter companies are flying 777/747'S, in the UK at least - None.
It's not as simple as just walking onto a 777 and cooking dinner, the exits are different,
they need to know the location of emergency equiptment, etc etc.

It would be much easier, but it's just no possible, perhaps that's why BA are training up some of their
own Ground Staff onto their OWN a/c??

They will not have BA interiorsor seating, at best perhaps Premium Economy, although Titan (a Private UK charter)
does have a 757/767, not sure which, that does have an all-business layout - still not 100% comparable though.

Most Charters will be 757/767/A330 for Long Haul at least.

Hope this helps!


User currently offlinedc10bhx From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 11475 times:

Can you imaine paying a full fare (first or business class) and ending up on someone like FR/BE/WW for your British Airways flight.

How much do you care to bet MOL at FR has been rubbing his hands waiting for Willie to call (or go online) to book some tickets.   



I'm lucky my job is my hobby
User currently offlinebastew From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 1028 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 11465 times:

This is pretty old news.

Willie Walsh said it in his broadcast to staff last Wednesday.

Whether its 737's or 747's.....fact or fantasy....who knows.


User currently offlineAAMDanny From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2008, 359 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 11432 times:

Quoting SPEEDBIRD174 (Thread starter):
flight & cabin crews to crew BA's birds rather than another companies?
Thank you.


I'm pretty sure that it is not as simple as that.

If You were to take, e.g. MT (Thomas Cook) 757-200 crew (Flight Deck and Cabin) and place them in a BA 757-200;
You would be faced with the following problems;

a) They are currently trained to MT's standards, which will almost certainly have simular but different proceedures and practises

b) They are licensed/trained under MT's AOC.

c) BA's aircraft may have different safety equipment, slide configurations (Slide Lanes/Slide Rafts differences) Different fire fighting equipment, different first aid/emergancy medical care equipment which MT's crew will not be trained on.

d) MT's cabin crew are trained to understand that all safety equipment is in the same place on each aircraft (there are a few exceptions) however safety equpment may come in different configs, locations, quantity etc onboard a BA 757-200

I'm sure there is also a lot more legal contraints too this...

So in ther long-run. It would just be easier to get the Aircraft + Crew.

Quoting SPEEDBIRD174 (Thread starter):
Does anyone have any information on what types would be hired, surely these a/c won't have BA's interiors and therefore be lacking in IFE and further on-board comforts that passengers would have payed extra for/expected

To be brutally honest most PAX would just be happy they got to get to were they want to be. They wouldnt care if they had primitive IFE such as having to watch a set sequence of entertainment on communal cabin TV screens.

They have paid for a seat to get them from A to B. BA will obviously supply Catering, Drinks, Snacks, Ammenity Packs, they will still get there FFP points, they can still make onward connections, etc etc etc.

Many Pax dont just book because of an airlines service standards they book because of times etc or if there employer is paying for the travel it isnt likely they have a choice.

AAM Danny


User currently offlinebastew From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 1028 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 11394 times:

Again, no details were given as to companies to be used, aircraft types etc.

The only details quoted were:

- 23 aircraft fully crewed for airlines across europe.

I guess you can have a look at the fleets of the main players in wet leasing to get an idea of likely candidates though. Air Atlanta Icelandic, Astreus etc


User currently offlinePacifique75 From Portugal, joined Oct 2006, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 11365 times:

Quoting robffm2 (Reply 1):
I'm already surprised that there are 23 fully-crewed planes availalble at short notice...

It might not be exactly the same aircraft type and configuration as BA use, but there are quite a few airlines
dedicated in ACMI deals at short notice.


User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3602 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 11342 times:

I think the 23 planes are shorthaul, thus the only thing that will be missing is the drop down screens with the moving map.

As to hiring in extra staff to operate BA planes, this is probably illegal under UK employment law.

As to being surprised that 23 planes would be available, the time of year probably helps, we are still a little way away from peak holiday season, but in the time frame where operators will be crewing up ready. If the strike were 2 months later it would probably be more difficult.
In the present economic climate, I'm surprised they can't find more.


User currently offlinegkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24938 posts, RR: 56
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 11299 times:

What's the bet that the first flights to be chopped are the UK domestics  


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineAAMDanny From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2008, 359 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 11257 times:

To name a few carriers that can be fully crewed at short notice:

Astraeus
Titan
Luz Air
Euro Atlantic
Air Atlanta Icelandic

Lets not forget we are sill have not started the Summer Season and Thomas Cook, Monarch, Thomson Airways aircraft are all on a lot of downtime


User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3602 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 11149 times:

Quoting gkirk (Reply 9):

What's the bet that the first flights to be chopped are the UK domestics

Of course they will be the 1st, as BA can at least suggest a half reasonable alternative of using the trains.


User currently offlineFeroze From India, joined Dec 2004, 794 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 11104 times:

From ba.com - an extract of a message from the CEO with tentative plans in the event of a strike:

Quote:
I wanted to update you on what we propose to do in the event that a strike does go ahead.

A strike will not ground British Airways, we have had nearly 6,000 volunteers to support our flying programme, including nearly 1,000 who have trained as cabin crew and the number is growing.
We have been putting plans into place and although we cannot announce the precise schedule we will operate until we know for sure what Unite would do, I can tell you what our plans are.

* We will operate all our flights from London City airport, including long-haul services to New York.

* We will operate all our long-haul flights at London Gatwick, and about half of our short-haul flights.

* At London Heathrow, we will operate a substantial proportion of our long-haul flights and a good number of short-haul flights too, assisted by chartered aircraft with crews from a number of UK and European-based airlines.

All BA CityFlyer, codeshare and franchise flights will continue to operate as normal.

We have also arranged to secure seats from other carriers, so thousands more of you can reach your chosen destinations.


User currently offlineSPEEDBIRD174 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 22 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 11012 times:

Thanks for all the information.
So what's this roughly costing BA for each a/c and a full compliment of crew? Plus fuel, perhaps the leased a/c may be less fuel efficient, even in the slightest degree, thus adding to the cost.

SPEEDBIRD174.


User currently offlineLHR380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 10822 times:

Who cares what type of plane it is, and what service training the charter crews have, it will be getting BA passengers away on their trips with as minimal disruption as there can be.

User currently offlinegkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24938 posts, RR: 56
Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 10729 times:

Quoting LHR380 (Reply 14):
Who cares what type of plane it is, and what service training the charter crews have, it will be getting BA passengers away on their trips with as minimal disruption as there can be.

Aye, but they'll all be booking Ryanair and Virgin Atlantic next time  



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineAAMDanny From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2008, 359 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 10699 times:

Quoting LHR380 (Reply 14):
Who cares what type of plane it is, and what service training the charter crews have, it will be getting BA passengers away on their trips with as minimal disruption as there can be.

   Exactly my point.


User currently offlineoa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27027 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 10663 times:

Looks like they will need to get some baggage handlers also as they are threatening to strike and Union is going to ballot them for industrial action !

User currently offlineLHR380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 10586 times:

Quoting oa260 (Reply 17):
Looks like they will need to get some baggage handlers also as they are threatening to strike and Union is going to ballot them for industrial action !

And where are you getting this from?


User currently offlineoa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27027 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 10568 times:

Quoting LHR380 (Reply 18):
And where are you getting this from?

Breaking Sky news  

Union Threatens To Ballot BA Baggage Handlers

British Airways is facing second potential dispute, with the Unite union threatening to ballot baggage handlers over proposed changes to working practices, Sky sources say.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Bus...lers_As_Strikes_By_Cabin_Crew_Loom


User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2501 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 10513 times:

Quoting oa260 (Reply 19):
British Airways is facing second potential dispute, with the Unite union threatening to ballot baggage handlers over proposed changes to working practices, Sky sources say.

I think BA is dead already... WW, close down the whole operation, sack that bunch of lazy and gready people and start afresh... It does not make any sense now...



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlinegkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24938 posts, RR: 56
Reply 21, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 10475 times:

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 20):
I think BA is dead already... WW, close down the whole operation, sack that bunch of lazy and gready people and start afresh... It does not make any sense now...

If they done that, just think of the bloodbath of slots at LHR  Wow!



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineLHR380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 10469 times:

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 20):
I think BA is dead already... WW, close down the whole operation, sack that bunch of lazy and gready people and start afresh... It does not make any sense now...

EXCUSE ME!!!!

I work there, im not crew, I work very hard, as do crew, if you wanna have a go, have a go at the unions!!!!!!!


User currently offlineevomutant From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 499 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 10443 times:

Quoting oa260 (Reply 17):
Looks like they will need to get some baggage handlers also as they are threatening to strike and Union is going to ballot them for industrial action

But I thought the whole rest of the company were dead against the cabin crew, and they were out on their own while everybody else understood reality. Or some such BS.

Shown up, if the baggage handler thing is true.


User currently offlineAnshuk From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2009, 485 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 10422 times:

The first time we'll see a bunch of non BA aircraft at T5, isn't it? I'd like to see some photos of that  
Its great that BA is taking all these steps to ensure that they cause pax minimum inconvenience. There's only so much the management can do, unfortunately.


25 Post contains images Jacobin777 : I agree, I think the United needs to get in touch with the realities of today.....I can't say I'm too happy about this, as its pax like my wife and I
26 LHR380 : Looks like you fit in it, im too tall lol. Just flown round trip in club, fantastic crew, especially the upper deck staff on the way to LAX. Did ever
27 AIR MALTA : I am sorry for this comment but I said it out of dispair... If you know me, you would know I am one of the most passionate of BA. It is sad to see BA
28 Vasu : Which airlines do BA have a recent track record of utilising for operations? Titan springs to mind as one of the more frequent ones...
29 Post contains images gkirk : Titan, I suppose they could also use BMI seeing as they are whoring themselves out to anyone and everyone thse days
30 GDB : And BA are the only airline to have threats, not any actual yet, of strikes hanging over them? Close down LH too then by that logic. And plenty more
31 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Actually, I think the angle of the photograph made the space look smaller than it was. There is a lot of room past my feet. The staff on my ORD-LHR f
32 Vasu : Haha... nice way of putting it!
33 Post contains images Sketty222 : I might book a ticket if I can get on a LuzAir L1011 Yeah, Titan have operated a few domestic flights as well as some into Europe. Did Astreus not do
34 Post contains links and images bwaflyer : That was XL!! View Large View MediumPhoto © Dave Chapman Astraeus did operate a line of flying out of LGW for several months using a variety of 757s
35 AirNZ : Because it is a violation under United Kingdom law to employ/hire anyone to replace striking employees. It's as simple as that, and can't be done.
36 Post contains links and images vv701 : From late November 2007 to the end of March 2008 BA had a shortage of cabin crew at LGW. They addressed this by wet leasing a number of aircraft. The
37 virgin747 : World Airways would be another operator. But they are busy gearing up for world cup...
38 EDICHC : For those that have booked already, probably so. I just wonder how many are now booking with other carriers who would otherwise have booked BA. Even
39 eugegall : I’m from the UK and live 20 minutes from Heathrow and 30 from Gatwick. I fly at least 5 return flights a year. Let’s say 3 long haul and 2 mid hau
40 Bennett123 : Personally, I have always been happy to fly BA. However, there is no way that I would book a flight with them until this has been resolved. There are
41 1peter : I'm lead to believe that ZB and HV will/could operate some services for BA.............!
42 Post contains images fca767 : Would be quicker to get from London City to Manchester (2 Hours) than to take 1 hour Subway to Airport, the 1 hour to get through to other side of ai
43 steve6666 : Information now on BA website....next two weekends are the strike dates. And to confirm, it is the short hauls being operated by wet leased aircraft.
44 MilesDependent : Would it be possible to simply shut down the airline and create a new shell? A la what Swiss did. They could dismiss all the striking crew and rehire
45 Bongodog1964 : Chimps and baboons have the ability to make a noise and scratch their posteriors simultaneously, I doubt from the actions of the past three months th
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
MSP And DTW In The Event Of A NW/US Merger posted Tue Jul 18 2006 17:33:42 by Incitatus
USEx Carriers In The Event Of US Shutdown posted Mon Jan 17 2005 03:15:24 by AA737-823
Kuwait Airlines & Routes In The Event Of War posted Wed Jan 22 2003 19:20:52 by Virgin744
AA: Support Of Wright Continues To Build In The Heartland posted Fri May 19 2006 04:46:11 by MrSTL
BA To Fly 5 Times A Week To Shanghai In The Summer posted Sat Apr 30 2005 14:00:42 by Buckieboy
Air NZ To Play Key Role In The Design Of The B7E7 posted Wed Jul 21 2004 10:59:18 by 777ER
Varig To GEO In The 80's, What Type Of A/c? posted Sun Jul 11 2004 08:22:49 by Airfrancejfk
BA Equipment To Oslo In The 80's posted Fri Aug 16 2002 22:43:11 by Tg 747-300
Airport In The Middle Of The Ocean In So.Cal posted Sat Oct 24 2009 21:36:53 by SuseJ772
Air Travel In The Days Of Segregation posted Mon Mar 9 2009 13:49:50 by Yflyer