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AirTran: DL Has Been Able To 'take Back Customers'  
User currently offlinejetboy2 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 46 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 13015 times:

I found this rather interesting.

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fligh.../item.aspx?type=blog&ak=82899.blog

"Today, Delta is much stronger than the Delta we saw four or five years ago," AirTran CEO Bob Fornaro is quoted as saying by the paper at a Tuesday investment conference in New York. "They've been able to ultimately take back customers that we actually borrowed for a couple of years. They are a tough competitor."

83 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23225 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 12904 times:

Quoting jetboy2 (Thread starter):
"They've been able to ultimately take back customers that we actually borrowed for a couple of years. They are a tough competitor."

I wonder whether the problem is DL or FL. Seemingly forever, FL has had a very short-term focused mentality that does not breed customer loyalty - when you cut flights that business passengers need because those flights aren't making money, that helps the bottom line short term but may not be as smart long term. Objectively, they have a product that should be very attractive to business passengers, but they often don't get the same yields competing carriers do.

Is DL stronger? Sure, but that shouldn't have caught FL with its pants down.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6633 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 12842 times:

Quoting jetboy2 (Thread starter):
I found this rather interesting.

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fligh.../item.aspx?type=blog&ak=82899.blog

"Today, Delta is much stronger than the Delta we saw four or five years ago," AirTran CEO Bob Fornaro is quoted as saying by the paper at a Tuesday investment conference in New York. "They've been able to ultimately take back customers that we actually borrowed for a couple of years. They are a tough competitor."

Which leads to the question: Could AirTran be a buyout target? Perhaps Southwest might have some interest in acquiring AirTran. Of course, they probably won't keep the 717s.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineAtlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 12721 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 2):
Which leads to the question: Could AirTran be a buyout target? Perhaps Southwest might have some interest in acquiring AirTran. Of course, they probably won't keep the 717s.

Actually it really doesnt. The article said in essence that FL is reevaluating and building strengths elsewhere. It did not say Airtran is destroyed and bleeding money and doomed. The problem is FL doesnt have the Aircraft to get into a match for match battle with DL thats why its picking its battles carefully. Why is it always people think FL is a target for southwest? If anything its shoring up itself. 2011 forward is when they will get back the fighting spirit and expansion drive it had.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7554 posts, RR: 23
Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 12572 times:

Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 3):
Why is it always people think FL is a target for southwest?

While maybe not a direct target per say; but one can't deny that for several years now WN has made some moves that have either beaten FL to the punch or caused them (FL) to pause and even contract.

Examples include:

1. WN making their PHL service announcement 2 months to the day that the local paper lists FL as having the highest percentage growth out PHL for 2002-2003. Today, FL non-stop service out of PHL is reduced to just ATL and MCO. Many former-FL PHL routes (BOS (starting this summer), FLL, PIT, TPA, RSW) are now (in the case of BOS, will be) flown by WN. WN's PHL expansion is one reason why FL's been offering (and expanding) service at ABE and ACY.

2. When TZ entered Chapter 11, FL seemed to be the winning bidder for TZ's MDW assets (HP withdraw a bid for an outright merger) until WN comes out of nowhere and outbids FL and the rest is history.

3. When FL started expanding service at DFW, WN broke its long silence and legally challenged (& won) the Wright Ammendment.

4. WN announces that it's coming to MKE shortly after FL starts to expand there.

There's probably a few others; but nonetheless one can clearly see a pattern here.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineTommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6844 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 12475 times:

AirTran is one of those budget airlines where they get the job done and thats it. If you want to upgrade to business class, expect free snacks, booze and a bigger seat for a cheap price. In your in coach, expect a free drink and thats it. XM is a nice touch to have fleet wide. I can't say I've ever heard anyone be loyal to AirTran or hate on them either. They are certainly not a loyalty airline. And I'm not surprised that DL has won back customers especially from their ATL base. DL was different 5 years ago compared today. AirTran was more or less the same.

One initial sign is how they pulled out of EWR. DL now owns ATL-EWR along with CO (DL has a larger market share by between 11-15%)



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6360 posts, RR: 34
Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 12408 times:

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 4):
While maybe not a direct target per say; but one can't deny that for several years now WN has made some moves that have either beaten FL to the punch or caused them (FL) to pause and even contract.

There is still room for consolidation in the industry... among majors and LCCs. As you say, FL may not be a direct target but it is a target nonetheless. DL will only get stronger as they progress along their merger integration and that doesn't bode well for FL.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlinedl767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 12367 times:

I've seen the problem more as Air Tran for my flights. I usually fly SAN-ATL and SAN-CHS, Air tran started this route for a while and delta dropped prices to meet the same price for the route which i found nice since I wanted to fly delta anyways. then airtran turned SAN into a seasonal operation I guess. Either way when DL and Air Tran were the same price DL still offered me the ability to pick my seat, and AVOD which was a big plus, and better times personally. DL has really turned around and has become a really great airline.

User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3304 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 12266 times:

Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 5):
AirTran is one of those budget airlines where they get the job done and thats it. If you want to upgrade to business class, expect free snacks, booze and a bigger seat for a cheap price.

You sound like someone who has never flown FL. Have you? Yes, its a decent, but not fancy product. It's good quality. I've never had a moments problem. They don't overpromise or underdeliver.

Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 5):
One initial sign is how they pulled out of EWR.

Really? You are not aware of the slot deal they cut with CO at EWR? FL gave up their EWR slots for CO slots at DCA and LGA.

http://www.caller.com/news/2009/aug/...-laguardia-reagan-airtrans-newark/

Might want to do a little research before you post.....


User currently offlineAtlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 12185 times:

Quoting planemaker (Reply 6):
DL will only get stronger as they progress along their merger integration and that doesn't bode well for FL.

As ive said as Airtran continues to make money and be profitable and majorly so they only strengthen and solidfy themselves. Why people continue to discount(no pun intended) Airtran is beyond me. If anything they will continue to grow and expand in the Caribean, probably also go to Hawaii as rumblings have been saying though if that was to happen it wouldnt be before 2011 also Canada isnt out the realm as well. If anything Airtran is in a great position just for the simple fact that they can sit back and watch the consolidation happen, and pick and act on routes planes etc they could want. Southwest is not the Be all end all low cost carrier as so many want to believe. There is DEFINITELY room for Airtran. Delta has definitely come such a long long way and im so so glad because its cool to have a strong Delta here in Atlanta but also a strong Airtran here to is good and yes it is strong. 2011 will be a very interesting year for FL  



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15812 posts, RR: 27
Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 12134 times:

Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 3):
The article said in essence that FL is reevaluating and building strengths elsewhere.

It looks like my suspicions that FL was increasing "Allegiant type" flying as a way of hedging their bets against DL may have been correct.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4514 posts, RR: 34
Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 12053 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 1):
I wonder whether the problem is DL or FL. Seemingly forever, FL has had a very short-term focused mentality that does not breed customer loyalty - when you cut flights that business passengers need because those flights aren't making money, that helps the bottom line short term but may not be as smart long term. Objectively, they have a product that should be very attractive to business passengers, but they often don't get the same yields competing carriers do.

I wondered when someone was going to post a thread about this topic...it has appeared in at least two related threads.

I've long thought the same thing about AirTran. They've got a good LCC product, a solid hub at Atlanta, they have good potential, especially at medium-size markets, to go after more business traffic. The fact that Delta is a "tough competitor" hasn't prevented AirTran from making money. I think they could have made even more.

Southwest certainly recoginzes that AirTran is a "tough competitor," or they wouldn't have gone out of their way to do the things PHLBOS mentions. Back at the time, I criticized AirTran here, for not going after MDW. They could easily have had a "parallel hub" there alongside WN just the way they do at BWI. WN's moves at DFW and MDW indicate how seriously they take FL as a competitor. It wasn't in response to AA that WN went after the Wright Amendment!

AirTran's short-term strategy has certainly worked as a reliable way to make a small profit. But I would argue that with their product and airports, they could do much more. For one thing, to maximize their usefulness to business people in their spoke markets, they need to maintain three dailies into ATL. At ROC, they had 3x daily ATL during the DL bankruptcy period. But now they've had 2x daily year round for a few years. DL typically has 5-6 daily on ATL-ROC, including 2 MD-88's.

I don't buy that AirTran needs to talk about having "borrowed" passengers from Delta during the bankruptcy period. They need to be talking *keeping* passengers. And take simple steps necessary to do it, like keeping a third flight on ATL to spoke markets, for business travelers. I find it difficult to believe most markets can't support at least three.

Jim

[Edited 2010-03-11 16:49:37]

[Edited 2010-03-11 16:50:29]


Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 12052 times:

If WN and B6 don't have bag fees, why did FL decide to follow US and NK type model?

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 2):
Which leads to the question: Could AirTran be a buyout target? Perhaps Southwest might have some interest in acquiring AirTran. Of course, they probably won't keep the 717s

It'd just bring a lot of debt on the merged company, a lot would be divested and lost, and the best case scenario synergies might not go smoothly implemented or be fully realized.

If it was a huge airline purchasing a tiny airline for some synergy...or they really had little overlap but a lot in common, it's another story, but here you have two profitable airlines with quite a big overlap of reach, with the exception of ATL and AirTran's international.


User currently offlineTommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6844 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 12030 times:

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 8):
Might want to do a little research before you post.....

Forgot about that my bad.



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6694 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11877 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 1):
Seemingly forever, FL has had a very short-term focused mentality that does not breed customer loyalty - when you cut flights that business passengers need because those flights aren't making money, that helps the bottom line short term but may not be as smart long term.

But that's not really true of FL in ATL. They've stuck it out in most markets in ATL. There's no way FL will ever compete with DL's frequencies, particularly when DL can flood the market...as they do in most FL cities.

This is not unique to FL. WN has routinely struggled to make headway in any of the legacy carrier fortress hubs. They've done nothing with SLC in over a decade, DTW and CLE have gone no where. PHL is struggling. MSP won't expand much. Now, in markets like HOU, DAL and MDW, they've faired better because they use a different airport and can tap into those markets differently.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 1):
Objectively, they have a product that should be very attractive to business passengers, but they often don't get the same yields competing carriers do.

Not really....especially when compared to DL. FL has a weak FF program, small network, no airport clubs and a Business class product that is mediocre at best (particularly on long flights).

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 11):
They could easily have had a "parallel hub" there alongside WN just the way they do at BWI.

Sorry, but Chicago just isn't big enough for four hubs. BWI is different because the Washington/Baltimore area is very fragmented and doesn't have as much carrier loyalty. There's no fortress hub in the DC area.


User currently offlineAtlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 11730 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 14):
Not really....especially when compared to DL. FL has a weak FF program, small network, no airport clubs and a Business class product that is mediocre at best (particularly on long flights).

They have a smaller network comparatively to DL and US on the east coast but they still are in the major biz centers and can connect people to those centers. Some of the markets they offer very good frequency. FF program definitely I think is a BIG area that could be retooled and has potential for growth but its fairly straight forward to get a free ticket or upgrade. I dont think the airport club thing hurts or benefits FL. I think it would be an asset but really would only make sense in maybe 5 cities at best 6.

The Biz product continually is retooled and they offer the most beverage options of any domestic carrier plus the snacks are being changed out and the old seats are being replaced, plus there is other things service wise that are being looked at to be introduced into Biz and the airline in general.I mean what do you want from a lowfare bizclass. You get free drinks to your hearts content a choice of some snacks a usually quite cabin to do work or sleep. I cant think of to to much more that can or should be done except maybe offer a Bizclass code for Gogo.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
User currently offlineisitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 11552 times:

Starting next month, DL puts the nine-50's back into FNT with three NS round trips to ATL to compete with airTrans 717's.
DL will also have a 700 on that route.
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4514 posts, RR: 34
Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 11500 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 14):
Sorry, but Chicago just isn't big enough for four hubs. BWI is different because the Washington/Baltimore area is very fragmented and doesn't have as much carrier loyalty. There's no fortress hub in the DC area.

Chicago is fragmented too; there are three hubs there now, and no one has complete dominance. Also, by the industry definition of market percentage of 60 percent, neither of Chicago's legacies have a fortress hub. I'd have to look at numbers, but even in 2005 WN probably barely had a fortress-percentage operation at Midway. The Chicago metropolitan population is bigger than the DC-Baltimore metro population as well. I don't see why FL couldn't have had a 50-60 daily Chicago operation going within a few years.

Jim



Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlineelbandgeek From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 759 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 11446 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 14):
Sorry, but Chicago just isn't big enough for four hubs. BWI is different because the Washington/Baltimore area is very fragmented and doesn't have as much carrier loyalty. There's no fortress hub in the DC area.

Didn't stop us from having 4 hubs for years. Even now, WN has pretty much filled in anywhere TZ left off so there hasn't been any real significant loss in capacity since they've been gone.


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13704 posts, RR: 61
Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 11420 times:
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Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 2):
Could AirTran be a buyout target?

Actually, I'd love to see FL become a wholly-owned subsidiary - with complete with codesharing, passenger flow-through and schedule harmonization - of Alaska Air Group.

Of course that would require a complete strategy re-think regarding the long term DL partnership, so it will never happen.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23225 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 11391 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 14):
There's no way FL will ever compete with DL's frequencies, particularly when DL can flood the market...as they do in most FL cities.

If DL has 9 or 10 frequencies, 4 or 5 FL flights come much closer to competing than 2 do.

FL can compete on frequency without matching frequency.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineJetJeanes From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1431 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 11173 times:

As much a I do Like Airtrans, a Hub in Mci would be a better choice than Atl, with their equipment the could cover the US
from a better logistics standpoint utilizeing the 717,s west coast and still going east. East coast to West coast could connect in Mci and still serve the cities it does now.



i can see for 80 miles
User currently offlinewn700driver From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 11127 times:

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 8):
You sound like someone who has never flown FL. Have you? Yes, its a decent, but not fancy product. It's good quality. I've never had a moments problem. They don't overpromise or underdeliver.


Interesting. My experience (while limited to about 30 cycles with them), has been quite the opposite. Aside from having the worst seat pitch in the industry (Which matters to anyone over 5'10...), there has been some snag on almost every run I've had with them. Some their fault, some not. But even on the things that were beyond their control (e.g. WX), there "recovery" was hardly impressive.

My overall impression was that they were a Very disorganized group. Admittedly, I haven't flown with them since '07, but my finding was that this industry is simply too competitive to continue to fund an airline that has difficulty executing more than two or three flawless flights out of thirty.

As far as being a target for WN, if that were true, Southwest would have turned last summer's energy in that direction instead of Frontier's. Just my two cents.


User currently offlineflyingcat From United States of America, joined May 2007, 546 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10984 times:

I know Worldtraveler is going to hate this, but as much as FL may be ceding passengers to DL they have so far outperformed them in terms of profitability.

What use is being king of Atlanta if you lose money on the passengers you take?

Another worry for DL is that if FL has ramped down as many flights as stated WN might be able to snag enough gates from the airport authority. I seem to recall that unlike DL's exclusive gate agreements FL has only preferential terms and the airport authority can reassign them during unused times to other carriers.

This scenario would ruin DL revenue outlook and could cause fundamental changes to DL's strategy in ATL.


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6694 posts, RR: 24
Reply 24, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10986 times:

Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 15):
I mean what do you want from a lowfare bizclass.

I understand what you are saying, but if DL is matching fares, offering higher frequencies and has better inflight F service, why would you choose FL over DL?

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 17):
Also, by the industry definition of market percentage of 60 percent, neither of Chicago's legacies have a fortress hub. I'd have to look at numbers, but even in 2005 WN probably barely had a fortress-percentage operation at Midway.

While its true there are no fortress hubs in Chicago, all three of the hubs in Chicago are larger than any hub in the DC area. And almost every major market has at least 3 carriers serving it from Chicago...so there's not a lot of low hanging fruit to be had.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 20):
If DL has 9 or 10 frequencies, 4 or 5 FL flights come much closer to competing than 2 do.

True, but 4-5 FL + 9-10 DL will be too much capacity for many of these markets...particularly right now when traffic volumes are down due to the economy.

Quoting elbandgeek (Reply 18):
Didn't stop us from having 4 hubs for years.

And how'd that work out?

Quoting elbandgeek (Reply 18):
Even now, WN has pretty much filled in anywhere TZ left off so there hasn't been any real significant loss in capacity since they've been gone.

As a whole, the Chicago market is down substantially in terms of capacity. While WN has backfilled some, AA/UA have made substantial cuts and much of that capacity won't be coming back anytime soon.

I think FL will be ok in ATL over the long-term. As traffic slowly rebounds, there will be more room for FL to grow and DL simply won't be able to accomodate it all as their planes are already quite full. Not to mention that DL will have its own challenges as it struggles to replace hundreds of aircraft over the next decade (both mainline and regional), plus face labor that wants huge pay increases.


25 Post contains links Flighty : OK... then in 2009 I guess Delta, CO, American and United should have all disappeared, because FL was more on-time for the year than any of them. htt
26 Atlwest1 : Very disorganized? not exactly. I fly them extremely frequently and 99 percent of the time the flights leave early and or get in early or ontime. The
27 wn700driver : Lol, you think I just started flying last week? In practise I like to allow about 1.30 or more between flights. They may be better now. I said this w
28 Cubsrule : By which measures is WN/MDW larger than UA/IAD? Why did the TZ hub fail? Most agree that overcapacity wasn't the cause. Sure, but DL isn't flying 10
29 DCA-ROCguy : I've flown FL 8-9 times a year since 2002, and my experience has been that their operation is as well-organized as any other of the 12-14 airlines I'
30 Atlwest1 : Wasnt meaning you. Several who fly with FL and other carriers do this. Well you cant say better if your still going on 2005 06 and 07. FL continues t
31 FlyPNS1 : In terms of available seats, WN (@MDW) has recently passed UA (@IAD). It's not by a lot, but it's there. And if you focus on domestic competition (wh
32 Cubsrule : Most of the smaller markets do not have 10 daily flights between the carriers, though. Some group that includes you, apparently (sorry, couldn't resi
33 MSPNWA : Good points. The bottom line is that making money is the goal, not numbers like total flights and passengers. FL seems to be doing well where it coun
34 usdcaguy : This goes without saying. The idea of making Kansas City a viable hub seems quaint to me. While it is true Southwest has always had a large presence
35 CharlieNoble : I'm a big fan of the TRAN! I lived in northern Wisconsin for awhile so they were my way out to anywhere else (from KMKE). Love the rocket-ship 717s. I
36 worldtraveler : Anyone who fails to recognize the viability of FL as a competitor to a major network carrier fails to appreciate how much FL has turned themselves aro
37 OzarkD9S : Our "friends" in Dallas had the right hub in the wrong network. Not saying STL is ATL or Chicago, but there was simply no need for that hub in the AA
38 RL757PVD : Lets look at the Delta of 5-6 years ago: Horrid regional staffing for customer service functions at ATL (6 flights per gate with 1 agent) Delay ridden
39 Post contains images Jacobin777 : 85.15% of passenger share can be considered a fortress operation...
40 CitationJet : I have always heard that AirTran does not have ticketing or baggage agreements with other airlines. Is that true? In other words, if AirTran cancels a
41 EMB170 : I too flew FL a great deal awhile ago (mainly on ATL-PHL and back) and I have to agree with the comment that they "got the job done". Actually very s
42 drerx7 : While true, if WN comes into CLT or ATL it will be to give access to Southwest's large domestic network, not to take over ATL/CLT like they did BWI.
43 ScottB : An outright purchase of AirTran by Southwest really wouldn't result in that much debt for LUV; AAI's current market capitalization stands around $725
44 Cubsrule : If in Y, yes - but it's a lot easier to get into the front cabin on FL than on DL.
45 worldtraveler : ouch. But it still doesn't change the fact that a significant portion of CLT and ATL flights have connecting passengers; WN's business model is not b
46 Cubsrule : But you must pay much more on Delta - even though the value added by Delta and Airtran is similar. It's not an issue of perceived value on the passen
47 ScottB : Given equal fares, though, the front cabin on DL is generally a better value (in terms of product received) than on FL. The upgrade process is also m
48 Tommy767 : Now THAT is an interesting idea.
49 TVNWZ : I actually chose airTran when I was flying between TPA and MKE almost twice a week a couple of years ago. And what you have listed..among other reaso
50 Post contains images Atlwest1 : The seat pitch isnt that bad especially on the 737 and im 6'1 and change and i sit in those seats all the time. The seats on the 717s are being gutte
51 vatveng : AirTran's bag fee announcement baffled me. They could have really had a competitive advantage over DL if they had not joined the bag fee bandwagon. U
52 USAirways787 : Working here in DFW, I'd love to see FL pick up more service and create some more jobs around here. AA is the fierce dog around here, and they know th
53 TVNWZ : Too late for me. Don't care. They tout it. They then have to suffer it. Maybe for you. I met CSA's who could hardly speak English, and many who just
54 PHLBOS : Because they could. FL implemented the frist bag fee within a week after DL did. IMHO, had WN been already at ATL; FL wouldn't have implemented at le
55 Cubsrule : Absolutely agreed, but that's generally not the situation. An upgrade to J on FL is almost always significantly cheaper - does DL even do space-avail
56 Atlwest1 : well cest la vie If its a problem with the provider which Airtran is not then how do they have to suffer for it? I deal with them on a daily almost m
57 LHCVG : Yes it would. Are their cost structures compatible enough to make it work vs. the potential legacy merger hurdles?
58 TVNWZ : The Average Joe holds airTran accountable. They pitch and advertise the service. If the chicken is bad I do not take it back to the chicken rancher,
59 Post contains links knope2001 : Curious where the numbers in that link came from, because if you go to the raw DoT report, for calendar year 2009 AirTran was at the very bottom of t
60 cessna2 : WN won't ever try to acquire FL as long as they have big operations in ATL. Like people have pointed out WN doesn't do too well in legacy carrier mark
61 Post contains images Atlwest1 : Im not arguing that but the fact is that XM has had issues as it integrates with Sirius. Not to mention even the ife on Delta isn't infaliable. Airtr
62 ScottB : They do, but not on the lowest fare classes. The gate upgrades are a bit rare at Delta since usually there are plenty of Medallions to take those sea
63 as739x : Was thinking the same thing.......!
64 Cubsrule : That has been my experience.
65 Post contains images DCA-ROCguy : For comfort, I'd much rather be in an AirTran 717 than a Delta CRJ or CR7, which is exactly what ROC, for one, could look forward to if AirTran wasn'
66 Post contains images Atlwest1 : Im sure all the 9000 Airtran crew members appreciate you recognizing there hard work. One thing they are extremely prompt with customer complaints wh
67 Cubsrule : No, that's the market share without TZ, in Calendar 2009 (other carriers were FL with 5.78%, DL with 3.09%, F9 with 1.96%, and others with 4.02%). In
68 TVNWZ : I would like to think things improve, and they may have. But, there is evidence they may not have... All airlines are late from time to time. All bre
69 Atlwest1 : Staffing issues have been are being dealt with. frequency is an issue that is there but will be remedied when the new planes come in. They have inter
70 airmalejum : UNITED AND AIRTRAN SHOULD MERGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
71 ScottB : My guess is that the question of market share would probably only be a potential issue at MCO and BWI. Given that the combined operation at both airp
72 Atlwest1 : Customer complaints if many effect the bottom line and the perception that everything is fine. Once again if enough people complained they would do s
73 worldtraveler : DL and FL are competitive on every type of published fare, including first class. DL may offer a lower percentage of their FC cabin to those types of
74 Cubsrule : How, exactly, does letting a seat go empty generate more revenue than charging someone $50 for it? With respect to those J seats not filled by paid p
75 FutureUScapt : Sorry, I'm confused as to what you are suggesting. Are you referring to selling upgrades at the gate just prior to departure?
76 Cubsrule : Let's say within 24 hours of departure, but basically yes.
77 FutureUScapt : Ok, that's what I thought but I wasn't sure. I'm actually surprised that DL doesn't have something like this in place for their domestic F product, s
78 brons2 : Wow, 30" seat pitch? That's pathetic. I used to think I might like to fly on F6 but it's not too likely considering that. I am *very* tall and that's
79 worldtraveler : In fact, DL has far more passengers trying to get into FC than there are seats available. DL has no shortage of passengers willing to pay first class
80 CitrusCritter : I'm 6'8, and I do fine in coach in an aisle seat. Not so swell in a window or middle seat. The ability to bend your knee out into the aisle is enough
81 FutureUScapt : OK, that makes sense. Does that extend to BizElite or is it just for domestic F? I know that US has a program in place where you can pay for an upgra
82 fl787 : Getting back to the original topic, here is how BWI and MKE look this summer after gaining from ATL's losses: BWI will have a schedule of 63 flights p
83 Cubsrule : That may be true on the network level, but it is most certainly not true on every flight.
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