Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
New Tokyo Airport Opens: Ibaraki - Govt. Waste?  
User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1763 posts, RR: 2
Posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13564 times:

Japanese officials opened up the new Ibaraki (IBR) Airport today in Northeastern Metro Tokyo.

http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/wireStory?id=10072050

For the time being, the airport only has two daily flights announced. ICN on OZ (which has had issues getting slots at NRT and HND), and Japanese LCC Skymark - which will begin flights from Kobe later in April.

OZ had the honors of the inaugural flight on an A321, and the airline is busy advertising the airport to Korean tourists as close to many of Tokyo's tourist attractions.

It becomes Japan's 98th airport, sparking criticism of bloated government public works. Perhaps when Japan's LCC market takes off the airport will have more demand - it offers free parking for example. But for the time being it seems like a waster, particularly when the regional administration only had to put up 1/3 of the cost, with the rest of the bill going being paid by the national government.

[Edited 2010-03-11 18:35:55]

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13490 times:

I know Tokyo Narita has farms and houses in the middle of the airport property forcing taxiways to go around them. Looking at Ibaraki, it looks like it also faces an obstruction with the taxiway going around it:

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=3...418&spn=0.004841,0.011362&t=h&z=17

Any idea what it is?



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9510 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13440 times:

How close is that airport actually to the city? Is there any reasonable transportation, or is this airport just for the far out suburbs to use. It seems farther than Narita which already is a long train ride after a long flight.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 3, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13400 times:

Is this airport also used by the military? It looks like there is an alert pad near the threshold of runway 21 and possibly one at the other end as well.


Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinecentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 13307 times:

The airport is only like 90 miles north of NRT. The locals were against it not in the same way Narita folks were agains NRT but because they felt that it was a major waste of money. There is nothing around the airport and Ibaraki is not famous for anything except natto (fermented beans). Most people in Japan and specifically the area cannot understand why with such a chance for being a waste, it was constructed anyways.

Some are hoping it will act as a third airport for Tokyo and attract LCCs from around asia and Japan to start operations. Now...if you could only get there easily by train...



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlinecarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2946 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 13269 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
Is this airport also used by the military?

Yes.
Not exactly a complete waste. If and ever a shooting war breaks out, one has to crater two runways instead of one.

The terminal is a complete waste though.
At least the Ibaraki airport takes the honors for being an international airport with just one route.


User currently offlineflyingcat From United States of America, joined May 2007, 541 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 13083 times:

It needs rail access at least then it can be served by airlines who might not be able to access HND due to slot issues or because the costs are much lower making it a lower risk route.

Carriers like US for instance.


User currently offlinecentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 12845 times:

Quoting flyingcat (Reply 6):
Carriers like US for instance.

It needs not just rail access, but High Speed rail access. Tokyo area needs a high-speed rail system that connects NRT to HND and now brings in Ibaraki. Doing so would make Tokyo far more attractive for transferring from domestic to international vice versa. If I had a choice of flying SFO-NRT-HND-outlying area or SFO-ICN-outlying area, I would take ICN in a heart beat. Same terminal and usually well timed. Not that I am ever going to fly that when I have NGO right down the road.

But when the new Shinkansen line begins operation in the next 10 years, Tokyo will be only 45 minutes from NGO. If such a train were built between HND-NRT and Ibaraki, connecting from Shinjuku to NRT would go from an hour+ to 10 minutes. Ibaraki would go from 2 hours to under 30 minutes. That would also allow NRT arriving pax to connect to HND in about 20 minutes.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1763 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 12801 times:

Here's another critical article. This airport would qualify under what they call "pork" in the USA - ie. when a region gets the federal govt. to spend money on an unnecessary or ill-timed project in its area.

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/20100308p2a00m0na009000c.html

Gov. Hashimoto decided to aim to make Ibaraki Airport a hub for LCCs at the end of 2007 because no airlines had announced that they would launch regular flights by July that year, when the ministry began to select a company to manage the airport terminal building.

However, the only access to the airport is buses from Mito and Ishioka stations, and there are no train or bus services that connect the airport with downtown Tokyo.

Moreover, overseas LCCs, such as one in Malaysia, are more interested in Haneda Airport as Maehara has declared that he wants to make the airport a hub for international flights.


User currently offlinespacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3610 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 12688 times:

Quoting centrair (Reply 4):
There is nothing around the airport and Ibaraki is not famous for anything except natto (fermented beans).

Well, and the biggest Buddha in Japan... (and previously the largest in the world)

but no, not enough to support an airport.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlinea380forana From Japan, joined Jan 2008, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 12505 times:

Air Asia X was considering this airport IIRC, for flights from KUL LCC Terminal. But apparently it is still at the stage of project.

Only 3 regular flights for an aiport! What a waste of money! They could do a lot of things to improve life of the people living in Ibaraki instead. On more example on how bad Japan budget is managed...


User currently offlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2362 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 12139 times:

Can't wait for Japan to make it to 100 airports.   

Quoting centrair (Reply 7):

But when the new Shinkansen line begins operation in the next 10 years, Tokyo will be only 45 minutes from NGO. If such a train were built between HND-NRT and Ibaraki, connecting from Shinjuku to NRT would go from an hour+ to 10 minutes. Ibaraki would go from 2 hours to under 30 minutes. That would also allow NRT arriving pax to connect to HND in about 20 minutes.

Now 10 minutes NRT Shinjuku Station would be amazing. Why don't they spend money on that? (I know it'd be too much.) Or at least speed the line up to 200 km/h, at least.



[Edited 2010-03-12 04:26:30]


oh boy!!!
User currently offlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2362 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 12128 times:

Quoting BA (Reply 1):
I know Tokyo Narita has farms and houses in the middle of the airport property forcing taxiways to go around them. Looking at Ibaraki, it looks like it also faces an obstruction with the taxiway going around it:

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=3...418&spn=0.004841,0.011362&t=h&z=17

Any idea what it is?

Hilarious. Looks like someone's little hut who didn't want to bother moving. Glad for them at the same time. I'm going to make a giant poster out of this and the NRT farm and put "PROPERTY RIGHTS" across the bottom of it in blood red.



oh boy!!!
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 13, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 12106 times:

How close is it to the existing rail?

Quoting centrair (Reply 4):
The airport is only like 90 miles north of NRT.

Only?  
Quoting centrair (Reply 4):
famous for anything except natto (fermented beans).

Yum (I'm not joking either)



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlinespacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3610 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 8943 times:

Ibaraki's also got the best green tea in Japan and one of its most famous micro-breweries (Hitachino Nest)

 



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 15, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 8855 times:

Quoting flyingcat (Reply 6):
It needs rail access

The first two years I was stationed in Yokosuka, we hated NRT because the closest rail access was JNR to the city of Narita, then a bus to the airport. The bus ran every half hour in the busy part of the day, and every hour during the rest of the day. Of course neither the train nor the bus ran from 2300 to 0600 local time.

Eventually the train directly to the airport was completed and it was possible to get there easily.

Quoting BA (Reply 1):
Looking at Ibaraki, it looks like it also faces an obstruction with the taxiway going around it:
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
Is this airport also used by the military? It looks like there is an alert pad near the threshold of runway 21 and possibly one at the other end as well.

The image on Google Maps/ Google Earth is from March 30, 2006.

At that time the airport was known as Hyakuri Airfield and was a military base. The first airport was built in 1937, but unused after WWII. In 1956 the Japanese military came back. There are still at least two fighter squadrons and other units based at the airport.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyakuri_Airfield

A new runway has been constructed parallel to the existing military runway and a terminal area - with various services. I would guess the new runway is west of the existing runway.


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8023 posts, RR: 26
Reply 16, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 8855 times:

This place is an absolute disgrace - the government again shows it knows no bounds with wasting public money and contributing to the highest per capita national debt in the world. This airport and about 25 others will never pay for themselves and will be on the public dole for generations. Once built, they can't actually close anything here, you see. The most outrageous thing is the local prefectural governors demand all kinds of false projections for justifying their construction - Ibaraki originally claimed 800,000 pax per year would use the facility, and for this year it's looking more like 200K, if that.


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offline413X3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 8614 times:

That's what happens when the government is so tied into organized crime. Corruption to a level American politicians will blush at

User currently offlinepetera380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7390 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

But does it have a viewing terrese so you can at least watch the JSDF F4's flying around?  

User currently offlinecentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6353 times:

One other aspect of Ibaraki that I guess could make the airport attractive to LCCs is that the are has tons of outlet malls! Shopping spree?

As for the japanese government ties to the yakuza, I have a feeling that is not so true anymore. It is more about old relationships that need to be kept. The Japanese leadership is basically a bug fame of volleyball. They just "rotate". Many current politicians are the children of post war politicians who were the children of pre-war politicians whose grandfathers were daimyo. The construction companies are the same companies that built Meiji japan, post-war japan and the bubble. Their great-grandfathers were also daimyo. So it is not yakuza but old relationships that if broken cause bad blood. It is all about "wa".

So Ibaraki aiport is more about appeasing an old relationship than hustling by the underworld.

Sad bit...a school in my community was forced to close one gymnasium as it is considered too dangerous and there is no funding locally or federally to replace it. As a result graduation and matriculation at the school must take place at the local government office. Yet...an airport was built. Politicians would be more respected if they did projects that benefit all in the long run instead of short term big wow projects.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlinecarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2946 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4927 times:

Quoting petera380 (Reply 19):
But does it have a viewing terrese so you can at least watch the JSDF F4's flying around?

Sure does, but make sure to bring a five step ladder, as the terrase appears to be enclosed in glass.
There are one squadron of each F-4s, RF-4s and F-15s based there.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 16):
A new runway has been constructed parallel to the existing military runway and a terminal area - with various services. I would guess the new runway is west of the existing runway.

Correct.


User currently offlinetradewinds From Japan, joined Jun 2008, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4795 times:

It's so ridiculous I can't understand how anyone can put a positive spin on it. The idea that they're hyping it as a good way to access Tokyo is absurd -- why spend 85 minutes or more on a bus to get to Tokyo when you can fly into HND and be in Shinagawa in 15 minutes, or NRT and be in Tokyo Station in what, 30 or 40? And even if they get the Kobe flight, it makes much more sense to take the train from the Kobe area to ITM and fly into HND than it does to take a bus all the way into Tokyo from Ibaraki after arriving.

I lived in Ibaraki for a year, and there is nothing there that makes me thing they could sustain any sort of regular capacity.

The idea that taxpayers such as myself who live far away have to foot 2/3 of the bill for this complete waste of money is insulting, moreso when you consider the terrible state of school buildings in this country (as another poster hinted at). Our schools are filthy, crumbling heaps of asbestos and concrete, and yet we're building a 250 million dollar airport for a single flight per day.

Sorry to be so emotional, but this strikes right at the heart with what is wrong with both Japanese aviation and Japan in general.



Tradewinds
User currently offline2707200X From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 8463 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4726 times:

Ibaraki is a good relief airport for HND and NRT since they are nearly at their limit, very good for a future boom in budget airlines.


"And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by." John Masefield Sea-Fever
User currently offlinetraindoc From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 348 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4634 times:

I was in Tokyo this week when the new airport was announced in the media. The airport is no frills, i.e., no jetways, just basic services. The idea is to provide a low cost alternative to NRT and HND. However, it is 2+ hours from Tokyo and I don't believe that their is a dedicated roadway, let alone rail service. The Japanese Transport Ministry is reported to have said that the airport and local community are on their own--meaning no help for operating costs from Tokyo.

User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1763 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4614 times:

Quoting traindoc (Reply 24):
The Japanese Transport Ministry is reported to have said that the airport and local community are on their own--meaning no help for operating costs from Tokyo.

Maybe they should have let the local community on its own in terms of the construction costs too.


25 Aaron747 : Utter nonsense. HND is being expanded and NRT is on a slow gradual decline thanks to ICN, other regional centers, and the de-emphasis of VLA hub/spok
26 Grude1087 : I think calling this a "Tokyo" airport is like calling MRY or SMF a "San Francisco" airport. It's great for folks who live out in the Mito area and do
27 as739x : Well we know where Ryanair-Japan will be flying to....!
28 ua76heavy : Without knowing the general development plan for the region, it's difficult to judge if this is a waste or not. If the general plan calls for the even
29 Aaron747 : Ibaraki's industrial base is already substantially developed.
30 carpethead : Who wants to build a factory close by a military airfield? Granted a shooting war with Japan is about likely as someone launching an ICBM, still it's
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
New Metro Atlanta Airport Opens Friday posted Tue Nov 11 2008 08:21:57 by RL757PVD
New Airport Opens In Tibet posted Mon Sep 4 2006 19:21:23 by 777way
Why No New Huge Tokyo Airport? posted Sun Feb 26 2006 22:47:05 by CityAirline
New Tawau International Airport Opens... posted Sun Dec 2 2001 01:30:42 by OdiE
Pudong Airport Opens New Hangar posted Thu Apr 26 2001 11:10:18 by United Airline
New YTZ Terminal Opens posted Mon Mar 8 2010 07:37:10 by airceo
New SGU Airport Runways Being Paved posted Sun Mar 7 2010 18:19:57 by ridgid727
Rumour: Bmibaby 4 New Routes + New Uk Airport posted Wed Feb 24 2010 20:15:15 by Ammunition
LCY, BA's New Holiday Airport?! posted Fri Jan 22 2010 05:16:35 by Jpiddink
Merging Op's At TXL, SXF Into New BER Airport posted Fri Jan 8 2010 12:30:11 by Tobias2702