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Norwegian And Finnair Talk Alliance  
User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1764 posts, RR: 2
Posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5687 times:

Finnair is in talks with Norwegian Air Shuttle regarding a possible commercial pact between both carriers. The point of it is to connect NAS' intra-Scandinavian network with Finnair's long-haul flights (mainly to Asia) from HEL. Finnair currently owns ~ 5% of NAS.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=20601109&sid=ajpfh_FG484k&pos=15

The pact would allow Norwegian Air, which has no inter- continental routes of its own, to boost occupancy on Finnair services to nine destinations in Asia.

“We are discussing different forms of cooperation with Norwegian, including the possibility to feed into our Asian traffic,” Finnair Chief Executive Officer Mika Vehvilaeinen said in an interview yesterday. “It sometimes makes sense for other people to fly into our ‘waves’ into Asia.”

SAS, Finnair’s biggest Nordic rival, has reduced its global network after racking up 9.25 billion kronor ($1.3 billion) in net losses over the past two years. The tri-national carrier no longer provides long-haul services from Oslo, Norwegian Air’s main hub, and offers Asian flights only from Copenhagen.


22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently onlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2924 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5611 times:

Which leads me to wonder: could this mean Norwegian joins oneworld at some point?

User currently offlineba319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8539 posts, RR: 54
Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5577 times:
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Seems like a good idea, extra feed for AY longhaul routes.

Let's see how this pans out.



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User currently offlineAAEXP From Brazil, joined Jul 2005, 424 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5520 times:

So now it's clearly OW against Star in Scandinavia (eventhough Finland is technically not part of Scandinavia).

User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17066 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5511 times:

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 1):
Which leads me to wonder: could this mean Norwegian joins oneworld at some point?

Does OneWorld accept LCC?



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User currently offlineAAEXP From Brazil, joined Jul 2005, 424 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5491 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 4):

AA codeshares with G3 in Brazil and the dating is getting hotter by the hour.......


User currently offlinetimboflier215 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1336 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5462 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 4):
Does OneWorld accept LCC?

Up until recently, OW has been busy trumpeting the 'exclusivity' of the alliance, basically quality over quantity. That may have changed though, as Star and Skyteam have expanded so massively over the last few years.


User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17066 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5193 times:

Quoting timboflier215 (Reply 6):
OW has been busy trumpeting the 'exclusivity' of the alliance, basically quality over quantity.

Yeah, that is what I mean. DY doesnt really fit OW's "exclusivity".



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User currently offlineAndaman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5061 times:

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 1):
Which leads me to wonder: could this mean Norwegian joins oneworld at some point?

Hardly tomorrow but who knows about the future... I wouldn't be suprised if AY and DY get even closer. New moves are expected in the northern skies.
AY also got a feeder/partner from Italy recently, Meridiana flying FLR-HEL and code sharing on MXP-HEL and FCO-HEL.


User currently offlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3385 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5026 times:

No, they are not talking about an alliance. What they are discussing, or more are rumours about they discussiong, is a possible feed by Norwegian into Helsinki and AYs long-haul routes.....which is far far away from an alliance

User currently offlineAndaman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4987 times:

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 9):
No, they are not talking about an alliance. What they are discussing, or more are rumours about they discussiong, is a possible feed by Norwegian into Helsinki and AYs long-haul routes.....which is far far away from an alliance

Yes, 'alliance' is too strong word here, but they really are in serious talks, it's not just a rumor. Finnair's CEO hardly whispers rumors to Bloomberg   Of course a different question is what really comes out of this, but I believe DY and AY will actually make a deal.


User currently offlineju068 From Vanuatu, joined Aug 2009, 2640 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4978 times:
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Does that mean they are going to codeshare on some route?

User currently offlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 3931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 4193 times:

Quoting OP3000 (Thread starter):
Norwegian Air, which has no inter- continental routes of its own

I beleave Morocco and United Arab Emirates is on a different continent...


User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1764 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 3982 times:

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 1):
Which leads me to wonder: could this mean Norwegian joins oneworld at some point?

No. Integration would be way too costly for what Norwegian could get out of it. This kind of a deal with AY (and/or another European carrier with long-haul) would be more than enough.

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 9):
No, they are not talking about an alliance.
Quoting Someone83 (Reply 9):
Yes, 'alliance' is too strong word here, but they really are in serious talks, it's not just a rumor.

That's taking the term "alliance" way too literally, when its simply meant to denote a commercial partnership. Plenty of media outlets used the same term to describe the similar B6- LH and UA- EI agreements.

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 12):
Quoting OP3000 (Thread starter):
Norwegian Air, which has no inter- continental routes of its own

I beleave Morocco and United Arab Emirates is on a different continent...

Again way too literal an interpretation. Nobody goes around arguing that U2 has "inter-continental routes" just because they fly to Marrakech or AGA.


User currently offlinejoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3169 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 3735 times:

Quoting AAEXP (Reply 3):
So now it's clearly OW against Star in Scandinavia (eventhough Finland is technically not part of Scandinavia).

No, it isn't.

Of course, StarAlliance has by far the largest market share in the Nordic countries, mostly because of the presence of SAS and Blue1. Also LH has quite a network to the region (next to CPH/ARN/OSL/HEL, they fly to GOT, BLL, BGO and SVG), and there are CO and TG flying into CPH, ARN and OSL, SQ to CPH, and the seasonal PHL-flights by US. (And of course the routes from CPH/ARN/OSL/HEL by the other European Star-carriers).

Now, for the Oneworld and Skyteam-carriers, it depends on how you want to see it.

BA only flies to the 4 capitals.
AY is of course big in Finland, but their network to the Scandinavian countries is quite limited: they only fly to ARN, HEL, CPH and OSL year-round. BGO is flown as a tag-on on the ARN flight 3x weekly during the summer-season - hardly an important destination in the hub-and-spoke network. BLL-HEL is flown by Sun-air, in BA-colors, and carrying the AY code - 6x weekly using an FRJ; although the times are coordinated with AY's long-haul network.

IB only flies to CPH and ARN. HEL is codeshared with AY, OSL is unserved. Malev flies to CPH, ARN, GOT and HEL, but not OSL. That's it when it comes to Oneworld.

Now, take a look at the Skyteam carriers:
KLM has an extensive network. Next to the 4 capitals, they serve BLL, GOT, KRS, BGO, SVG, TRF, TRD and LPI. LPI, TRD, TRF and KRS are served 2x daily year-round; the other destinations even more frequent.

Long-haul, DL flies into ARN and CPH.

And then there are the flights from AF (ARN/GOT/OSL/CPH), SU, OK, AZ (not sure if they still fly into the Nordic countries), etc.

I wouldn't say that it's Oneworld vs Star; StarAlliance is defenitely the market leader. In terms of seats flown, Oneworld will rank higher due to Finnair. But for long-haul connecting traffic, I'd say Skyteam carriers are even better positioned in the market than Oneworld carriers.


User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17066 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 3682 times:

Quoting joost (Reply 14):
AZ (not sure if they still fly into the Nordic countries), etc.

Unfortunately they dont.



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User currently offlineMYT332 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 9112 posts, RR: 70
Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 3321 times:

Quoting OP3000 (Reply 13):
Again way too literal an interpretation. Nobody goes around arguing that U2 has "inter-continental routes" just because they fly to Marrakech or AGA.

Well it is the meaning of 'inter-continental' to be fair and Dubai is quite along way, it's not like it's just on the border a la Turkey! When I see Emirates or Etihad knocking around at MAN I don't think, hmm, there's a local European carrier. Norwegian should have credit albeit don't ever think for one minute you'll catch me on one of their 738's down there!   



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User currently offlineVadheim From Norway, joined Jul 2000, 623 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 2415 times:

SK, KL and LH are the 3 big network carriers out of Norway.

Amsterdam (KL) has just overtaken Copenhagen (SK) as the most important hub outside Norway for Norwegian travellers. More than 300.000 Norwegian passengers transfer annually via AMS.


User currently offlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3385 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 2392 times:

Quoting Vadheim (Reply 17):
More than 300.000 Norwegian passengers transfer annually via AMS.

It's much higher!


User currently offlineju068 From Vanuatu, joined Aug 2009, 2640 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 2378 times:
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How often does KL fly to OSL and what planes do they use?

User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17066 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 2371 times:

Quoting ju068 (Reply 19):
How often does KL fly to OSL and what planes do they use?

They fly up to 5 daily rotations with 737s



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User currently offlineAndaman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 2285 times:

Quoting joost (Reply 14):
AY is of course big in Finland, but their network to the Scandinavian countries is quite limited: they only fly to ARN, HEL, CPH and OSL year-round.

Also GOT and NRK (FinnComm) but yes relatively limited.


User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17066 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 2282 times:

Quoting Andaman (Reply 21):
Quoting joost (Reply 14):
AY is of course big in Finland, but their network to the Scandinavian countries is quite limited: they only fly to ARN, HEL, CPH and OSL year-round.

Also GOT and NRK (FinnComm) but yes relatively limited.

Maybe AY's network in Scandinavia is limited, but they have a big presence in ARN stealing a lot of pax from SK and other competitors heading to Asia.



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