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New Frontier/Midwest #6  
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25269 posts, RR: 85
Posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 13188 times:
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At the start of the last thread I wondered if they had much slack left in the fleet to add frequencies, of even routes, for the summer.

Some of that has happened, with the addition of the second flight to ANC and the extension of MCI-CUN.

They're changed the time of MCI-CUN, so that it will be possible to connect from MKE. That connection doesn't appear on the website yet, but they only just have the DOT authority for the Mexican code shares.

I guess we might see a couple more frequency additions or season extensions, but I don't think we'll see any more new routes announced - my dream of MCI-CRP (and/or OKC-CRP) dashed again. LOL.

Obviously, there's still a lot of debate about the name for the unified brand. They have hired Ian Arthur for all that - old timers may remember that he was involved in the development of "A Whole Different Animal."

I don't think is any kind of a hint as to his preference for the name, and I'm not holding my breath. I'm quite happy for it to come as an interesting surprise on - they say - April 13. Happily, the 13th isn't a Friday.



mariner


aeternum nauta
256 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineYXwatcherMkE From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1003 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 13129 times:

I was pleasantly surprised to see that Lan Arthur has been retained once again to do the marketing campaign for the new "Brand". Hopefully the New Brand will be a familiar name and that there will be minimal change if any in the animal livery. The only thing that has been bugging me was the C-Series C-300 jet rendering was in the plain Jane Republic Livery. I am only hoping that it was done that way to "hide" the New Brand until it is announced. Any thoughts out there?

Quoting mariner (Thread starter):
At the start of the last thread I wondered if they had much slack left in the fleet to add frequencies, of even routes, for the summer

I had the same thought and concern about new routes and increased flight frequencies, are there any additional a/c coming other than the 3 A320's? I would like to see a little more expansion at MKE yet this year to keep ahead of FL. And why I am thinking about the subject, why is SAN and SEA from MKE seasonal during the summer? I can see these two routes year round service.



I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
User currently onlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6570 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 13073 times:

Just to make it official, DEN-MSY will be starting with A318 aircraft as opposed to E90. Flights are bookable in the system. Not earth shattering news by any means, but news nonetheless. So that means MSY will join TPA, FLL, PHF, PHL, CUN and SDF as being cities which see or will see single daily Airbus service by the time June comes around....have I missed any? I've been curious about DEN-PHL for a while....sort of surprised by only one frequency on that one, but then again, it is served by three other carriers...so it might not be a huge shock after all. On the positive since I assume the costs of operating out of PHL are now less since F9/YX are sharing the same space.

User currently offlinefl787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1541 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 12991 times:

Does anyone know if F9 is still adding a pilot crew base in MKE? It doesn't even seem like they need it with the April schedule only having 11 Airbus flights out of MKE (and 3 of those to DEN). The summer schedule isn't much busier with only 13 Airbus flights (with 4 of those to DEN).


717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlineYXwatcherMkE From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1003 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 12966 times:

Quoting fl787 (Reply 3):
Does anyone know if F9 is still adding a pilot crew base in MKE?

There was some talk of a Airbus Crew base back in February But have not heard anything since.



I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
User currently offlineFRNT787 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1324 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 12918 times:

Quoting YXwatcherMkE (Reply 1):
I am only hoping that it was done that way to "hide" the New Brand until it is announced. Any thoughts out there?

That is my thoughts. Even if the Republic name is chosen, I do not believe they will necessarily utilize the livery they currently have. I would expect that to remain with the spare aircraft.

Quoting YXwatcherMkE (Reply 1):
had the same thought and concern about new routes and increased flight frequencies, are there any additional a/c coming other than the 3 A320's?

7 E190s were to be introduced in the first two quarters. Some of them are already entering the fleet, so I am not sure of the exact numbers.



"We have a right to fail, because failure makes us grow" --Glenn Beck
User currently offlineJetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2788 posts, RR: 32
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12853 times:

Quoting mariner (Thread starter):
I guess we might see a couple more frequency additions or season extensions, but I don't think we'll see any more new routes announced - my dream of MCI-CRP (and/or OKC-CRP) dashed again. LOL.

If they kept the Dash 8 fleet I think MCI-OKC-CRP and return would perform well. It would help connect the dots a little bit and allow some F9 market share to the north and east out of OKC, instead of going all the way to DEN. But with Lynx leaving, we might not get that, unless it was on E170's.



No info
User currently offlinesideflare75 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 613 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 12676 times:

So continuing on from the last thread I was wondering where the F9 mechanics were that came to MKE and it seems they are in training, or to be more exact, in Republic orientation as it seems they will soon be working for Republic and not F9. This just gets more interesting everyday.

User currently offlineAirport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 12566 times:

I honestly wouldn't mind a brand change, if it weren't for the fact that there are so many recent brand changes (not necessarily related to the airline industry) that I've completely despised. I'm really disliking where marketing trends are going, especially in the airline industry. Frontier and Midwest were two brands that I loved, because they had both a modern and yet a classic feel to them. The animals were great because they made every aircraft unique. It prevented their aircraft from ever looking boring, unlike other airlines which have a unified livery across every aircraft. Frontier's brand is consistent, fresh, modern, quirky, classy, and all of the above.

I guess I don't mind livery changes and logo changes and brand changes provided the updated brand is simply a better done brand. But with such a strong brand, I feel like that's going to be next to impossible to achieve. And considering where marketing trends are going, I just have a bad feeling that if they overhaul the brand, the results will not be as good as the current brand.

All right, rant over.  


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3149 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 12241 times:

Quoting Airport (Reply 8):
The animals were great because they made every aircraft unique

Concur, a few years ago I had a four hour layover in DEN. Watching all of the F9 activity in the early afternoon. I was able to visit the zoo without leaving the airport.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 12196 times:

Quoting sideflare75 (Reply 7):
I was wondering where the F9 mechanics were that came to MKE and it seems they are in training, or to be more exact, in Republic orientation as it seems they will soon be working for Republic and not F9. This just gets more interesting everyday.

Interesting, indeed. It is puzzling how unionized F9 mechanics who elected to relocate to MKE are now being told that they are RW employees and non-unioned. How can they automatically go from being a F9 unionized employee to a RW non-union employee? I do not think the law or union rules permit that to happen.

I wonder if there is more to the story than what's really going on. I'm no fan of unions, but if I went from a F9 union shop and transferred to a place where there is really no F9 presence (mx-wise) and found out that I am no longer in a union after the fact, I'd be pretty peeved.... I mean, really peeved.

Now, if RW said "If you relocate to MKE, you will not be in a union", then I doubt that those 35-40 mechanics would have made the trek. Like I said, there has to be more to the story than what we are seeing now. Something is up.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3149 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 12048 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 10):
I wonder if there is more to the story than what's really going on. I'm no fan of unions, but if I went from a F9 union shop and transferred to a place where there is really no F9 presence (mx-wise) and found out that I am no longer in a union after the fact, I'd be pretty peeved.... I mean, really peeved.

I have a hunch this is why the IBT filed their grievance against RAH. I have a hunch the mech types are on sabbaticle until a judge, administrative law or otherwise rules. Courtesy Associated Press AP and USA Today http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fligh...republic-frontier-mechanices_N.htm IMO turbulence would have been a better choice of word in lieu of "speed bump".



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25392 posts, RR: 49
Reply 12, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 12028 times:

Republic appoints a new VP Marketing.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/rep...ng-2010-03-15?reflink=MW_news_stmp

From reading the press release it touts his previous branding experience including F9 where he was at 2001-2003.
So sure sounds like a new brand is on the way.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineFRNT787 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1324 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 11992 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):
Republic appoints a new VP Marketing.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/rep...ng-2010-03-15?reflink=MW_news_stmp

From reading the press release it touts his previous branding experience including F9 where he was at 2001-2003.
So sure sounds like a new brand is on the way.

Hasnt someone repeated on these threads unendingly that RAH would not replace SM because they "dont want another voice to disagree with them?"



"We have a right to fail, because failure makes us grow" --Glenn Beck
User currently offlinekingcavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 1306 posts, RR: 17
Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 11976 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):
From reading the press release it touts his previous branding experience including F9 where he was at 2001-2003.
So sure sounds like a new brand is on the way.

I believe a new brand is on the way, but I'm not yet convinced there will be a new name. I thought it was interesting that this latest appointment helped create the "Whole Different Animal" campaign.



Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25269 posts, RR: 85
Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 11947 times:
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The DOT approval of the Mexican code shares has one immediate benefit.

The timing of MCI-CUN has been changed, delayed by about three hours, so that it can now collect pax from MKE. It is now possible to book MKE-CUN (through MCI), which wasn't so last week.

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 6):
If they kept the Dash 8 fleet I think MCI-OKC-CRP and return would perform well.

CRP - from either OKC, MCI - is one of the three destinations I'd like to see on the map, if not necessarily daily.

I've been to Corpus Christi and, surprisingly to me, loved it - I'm intrigued it doesn't get more service. I'd sell it as Oklahoma Beach or Kansas Beach. LOL.

It warmed the cockles of my heart when I discovered that it is a junction for the Kansas City Southern Railroad, on it's way to Mexico.

Follow the railway, I say.  

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineboydatageek From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 127 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 11841 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 15):
I've been to Corpus Christi and, surprisingly to me, loved it

As we speak, I am at the Pool on the Beach condo I live in on Padre Island, " Toes" by Zac Brown Band playing on my computer. "Life is good Today."

Mariner, you are welcome to come visit your Oklahoma Beach anytime. Bring CRP-MCI, CRP-DEN, or CRP-MKE air service with you.

PS, don't you ever sleep? Isn't New Zealand on the other side of the Earth?


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25269 posts, RR: 85
Reply 17, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 11683 times:
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Quoting boydatageek (Reply 16):
Mariner, you are welcome to come visit your Oklahoma Beach anytime. Bring CRP-MCI, CRP-DEN, or CRP-MKE air service with you.

In a heartbeat, if I could - I'm slightly green with envy. LOL.

People dismissed Corpus Christi as a Texas Redneck Riviera before I went there, but I had a great time and found some wonderful food.

And people sometimes forget that redneck dollars are still green.

Quoting boydatageek (Reply 16):
PS, don't you ever sleep? Isn't New Zealand on the other side of the Earth?

The timing works out great. I can't function without a couple of double espressos in the morning and I use voyages on the internet to wake up - which is when it's all going on in the US.  

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25269 posts, RR: 85
Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 11570 times:
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Tiny, beleaguered Sun Country Airlines had just thrown down a gauntlet - or a cat among the pigeons - by announcing service to London.

http://www.suncountry.com/hometools/releases/LondonService.shtml

It's summer seasonal, flying MSP-STN - with an intermediate stop (I am told) at YQX, Gander, Canada. Fares starting at $399.

It's a bold move, but I wish them well. I assume - hope? - they have their butts covered by arrangements/deals with travel houses.

Someone was going to do it, eventually. Who'd a thunk it would be Sun Country?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinekingcavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 1306 posts, RR: 17
Reply 19, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 11563 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 18):
Someone was going to do it, eventually. Who'd a thunk it would be Sun Country?

Not me that's for sure. Maybe F9/YX could partner up with SY and connect passengers in MSP to the new flight to STN.



Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
User currently offlineLRDC9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 610 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 11556 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 18):
It's summer seasonal, flying MSP-STN - with an intermediate stop (I am told) at YQX, Gander, Canada. Fares starting at $399

Way outa left field. It is exciting though. Almost makes me want to Fly IAD-MSP-YQX-STN  . Except really. LOL.
On a seperate note - I am currently thinking that the F9 branding will stay but that the Frontier name will be replaced by Republic to represent the new kind of network they are working at - if not to give them a new-ish branding slate to work with. Or at least this is what I am hoping. Seeing the po'ed reaction of F9 loyalists at the potential of losing the F9 brand I think it is prudent to keep the majority of it intact. Especially since the YX key markets seem resigned and indifferent to the potential of losing the YX brand.



Just say NO to scabs.
User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1541 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 11531 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 18):

I think these flights have something to do with SY trying to bid for military charters. I hope they don't think it's economically viable.

Quoting kingcavalier (Reply 19):
Maybe F9/YX could partner up with SY and connect passengers in MSP to the new flight to STN.

We're only talking about a total of 10 flights to London. IMO, it would not be wise of RAH to even mildly displease DL so they could codeshare on 10 flights out of MSP.



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlineFRNT787 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1324 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 11520 times:

Quoting LRDC9 (Reply 20):
On a seperate note - I am currently thinking that the F9 branding will stay but that the Frontier name will be replaced by Republic to represent the new kind of network they are working at - if not to give them a new-ish branding slate to work with. Or at least this is what I am hoping. Seeing the po'ed reaction of F9 loyalists at the potential of losing the F9 brand I think it is prudent to keep the majority of it intact. Especially since the YX key markets seem resigned and indifferent to the potential of losing the YX brand.

Honestly, I do not think it would be too hard to create a solid unified brand with the Republic name. If they keep a lot of the Frontier branding in tact, I am certain Denver will rally to it. Ian Arthur has proven himself before, so I am glad to see him on the RAH team now. The excitement around Republic just wont go away, will it.  



"We have a right to fail, because failure makes us grow" --Glenn Beck
User currently offlineboydatageek From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 127 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 11365 times:

Quoting LRDC9 (Reply 20):
Especially since the YX key markets seem resigned and indifferent to the potential of losing the YX brand.

I think that you are seeing stuff that in general isn't there, certainly not the indifference. The resentment and backlash from losing the Midwest Brand is most likely huge. Many view it as the LAST legacy of the Midwest Express pride. Without it, people will just as well fly AirTran and Southwest.

You saw some of that dynamic when Daykin wrote about BB's branding statement a few weeks back. None of his other anti-BB or anti-YX articles caused this severe of readers reactions.

[Edited 2010-03-15 19:37:49]

User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5434 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 11295 times:

Quoting YXwatcherMkE (Reply 1):
And why I am thinking about the subject, why is SAN and SEA from MKE seasonal during the summer? I can see these two routes year round service.

I certainly agree with you! Both of these MKE-routes are also served by FL; SEA-MKE is served year-round by FL and SAN-MKE, flown by FL only between Memorial Day and Labor Day, has just been increased from 1 to 2 daily flights. I've said it before and I'll stick by it here: if F/Y/R goes year-round with MKE-SAN, even with only 1 flight, and FL doesn't, I would bet they (F/Y/R) would "own" the route.

So yes, from a competitive standpoint, it seems that it would be advantageous for F/Y/R to convert both MKE-SAN and MKE-SEA to permanent year-round service. We'll see what happens later this summer....

bb


25 boydatageek : The problem is that these (especially SEA) ARE very seasonal from the Midwest area. Below are the last years worth of DOT passenger/day statistics. I
26 Post contains images AirframeAS : SM's replacement, perhaps?? You are truly one amazing and unique A.netter here, of course!
27 SANFan : Good post and thank you for posting the data, '"geek". I had originally written a longer post here and have discussed this situation in other threads
28 FRNT787 : My thoughts. Should be interesting, he has proven himself before.
29 YXwatcherMkE : SEA-MKE and SAN_MKE routes... If Republic/F9/YX was to maintain their lead in MKE they need to keep the routes year round. If they keep cutting the se
30 Post contains images SANFan : Let's hope F/Y/R see's it the same way we do! Concerning the San Diego route, and as I've suggested before, my bet would be that F/Y/R will wait unti
31 mariner : Hmmmm. I raise a few eyebrows about that. Given that I can always be wrong, my reading is that BB is in charge, that this is all his idea, he pwns it
32 Post contains images YXwatcherMkE : Very true, I have several relatives that find SAN a great winter vacation destination ever since we had one of our nephews stationed there while in t
33 LAXintl : Not to rain on your parade SANFan, but keep in mind greater Los Angeles area serves as a gateway to San Diego especially during low traffic periods. S
34 Post contains images MostlyAir : I can tell you all with complete certainty that Ian is not SM's replacement. Ian along with the other branded VPs, Greg, Jim and Daniel, would report
35 AirframeAS : But you have to admit that the job title that SM had after the auction is pretty similar to what Ian Arthur holds not. Very, very similar..... Now th
36 mariner : There is more to the story, but I'm not sure I want to go there again - my view of it was somewhat controversial last time around. And ultimately, do
37 AirframeAS : To some, it does. It leaves a lot of bad taste in people mouthes, especially around here in DEN and curiosity killed the cat, ya know.... People want
38 F9Animal : If F9's tails disappear, then I see little branding left of F9. The Animals are a huge identifier to the eye, and it would be a total shame if it lef
39 FRNT787 : I agree with you. What I meant, was that for now, the duties Menke had that were not to be resumed by BB, are now taken over by Ian Arthur. I am not
40 AirframeAS : With this, I agree with and exactly what I was trying to say. The job titles do look very, very similar.
41 FRNT787 : Exactly. Just like United buying A350s to replace 747s, they are different, but they are both long-haul aircraft, and one can still be a replacement
42 mariner : Without going there again, and trying to avoid any more controversy, it is rare for two over-achieving people, especially men, to coexist on the same
43 Post contains images AirframeAS : I do not believe that SM has ever said why he was leaving, but he probably never will say why. And people still wonder what the real story is, or wha
44 Post contains images dfanucci : Would'nt it be something if down the line the thoughts of Rjet selling off the F9 buisness came to fruition, and the man standing there with the chec
45 Post contains images YXwatcherMkE : Why would BB be in the market to sell off F9 or YX Mainline op's when he just commited himself and his company to 40 a/c with options for 40 more. Th
46 Post contains images YXwatcherMkE : Why would BB be in the market to sell off F9 or YX Mainline op's when he just commited himself and his company to 40 a/c with options for 40 more. Th
47 Post contains images mariner : I'm not sure why people are so keen for him to lay out his plans, anymore than he has. The overview is in place, or as much as any airline. It's inte
48 AirframeAS : Does anyone here know who is going to snap up the L3 Q400's, with sources and links provided? April is only 2 weeks away.... Any buyers?
49 FRNT787 : 5 or 6 of them are leased from Wells Fargo I believe. Obviously, the bank will be taking those back, and getting them in the hands of anyone who will
50 AirframeAS : That is true, not the earlier ones, of course. The most newer ones are leased, I believe. This is a great opportunity for QX to snap some of them up
51 n7371f : QX won't touch them...unless someone wants to take their leased CRJ-700's on a one-for-one basis. QX is operating on a zero fleet growth mode in the
52 AirframeAS : If QX wants them, now is the time to get them. You snooze, you lose.
53 beryllium : This commitment might never materialize. This is not something that will by all means happen. What can be in those "cards"? What kind of competitive
54 FRNT787 : The question has been asked many a times, but why the rush??? Why not let the man sit back and create something great, opposed to rushing into someth
55 FRNT787 : Why do you seem to think the C-Series order will not happen. RAH seems pretty pleased with the deal they got. If they dont plan on taking the planes,
56 kingcavalier : Is April 13 not fast enough for you? That's when the announcement is to be made. Bedford said it would take until October to have the brand unified,
57 PlanesNTrains : It seems that QX has more planes than they want already. If the CR7's were on the way out, then yes they might be wanting to grab these props. Howeve
58 PlanesNTrains : Well, if you remember from the previous thread, Enilria seemed to have anecdotal evidence that the branding decision had already been made, but is be
59 sunking737 : Maybe Porter in Canada will take them? Who knows..........
60 Post contains images beryllium : This order would materialize not tomoroow, but several years from now. I do not think RAH branded operations will last that long. They are being assa
61 Post contains images FRNT787 : ...ok...so you are simply hoping that the airline with the lowest costs will fail against the other two. got it. I suppose my only real response is t
62 mariner : The seasonal Florida services from OKC and OMA are slated to end on April 19/20. There's been no announcement about this (that I have seen) but the bo
63 beryllium : That's you are simply hoping that I am hoping... I believe, I admitted that my prediction can turn out to be wrong. You are so sure that I am wrong?
64 Post contains images FRNT787 : ...no I like to think I can though. You said you do not think RAH branded ops will last that long, I simply stated I thought you were wrong. I just s
65 FutureFO : Our wonderful company sent a survey to all employees regarding the single branding of the operations. Which I find ridiculous as they don't listen to
66 PlanesNTrains : That was 100 people not on YX, and the erosion of pricing power on some of those routes doesn't help either. It certainly isn't DEN, though. -Dave
67 GentFromAlaska : Like most elections I suspect it is more of will he respond to the polling results of FF and or his employee groups or will will be toss out the publ
68 MCI10 : IMO, I don't think you order a 136 pax aircraft for regional flying. So I think RAH branded ops will be around for a while.
69 beryllium : That's the "Who's gonna last longer" race (between RAH and WN/FL). Of course, there is overcapacity in DEN and MKE right now, and it would come as no
70 Post contains links mariner : The A320 situation is becoming quite interesting. According to the Republic Annual report for 2009, Frontier's original previous but revised order for
71 Post contains images AirframeAS : I can confirm that. I just got mine today. (Or yesterday....) Well, regardless of if they listen to us or not, fill it out anyway and send it in. May
72 Post contains images LRDC9 : Low costs - built on the back of fee-for departure agreements (limited costs to cover), low crew salary, etc. While I believe they will be able to ma
73 AirframeAS : You're not the only one. I have been hoping for, since day one of my employment with F9, to see an A321 in F9 colors!!! But you are right, sooner or
74 kingcavalier : F9/YX is more than DEN or MKE now. They will not live or die by those 2 hubs. RAH will diversify beyond the 2 traditional hubs. Your arguments are ba
75 Post contains links and images mariner : I'd be happy with the swan and cygnets, too: View Large View MediumPhoto © Eppley Photography mariner
76 boydatageek : OK, I'll bite. What are they?
77 Post contains images AirframeAS : No doubt about that, sir. My! That E170's FRONTIER titles look great in the sunlight! Nice! I like the way it shines.
78 F9Animal : Fill it out, and send it in! Most importantly, encourage your coworkers to do the same. BB and team are obviously taking this seriously, or they woul
79 bjorn14 : Would you mind sharing your survey?...I'm just curious as to what BB is asking. FWIW, my sister lives in MKE and flies YX about 1x a week and she cou
80 FRNT787 : Well, F9 has lower costs than WN (comparing A319 to 73G). They are a push with AirTran with the same comparison. RAH is cheaper (by far) comparing E1
81 LRDC9 : Again I believe they will maintain industry leading costs. I am just saying not to get to settled where they are as they are likely to go up in the n
82 MCI10 : I also filled mine out.
83 beryllium : My arguments are based on what I see. As of now, there is not much of RAH anywhere besides DEN and MKE. (DEN is F9, MKE is YX). Yes, they most likely
84 FRNT787 : No one said abandon...just expansion. Look at F9s long-term Mexico strategy and the operations at OKC and OMA... IMO, that is just the beginning. As
85 beryllium : Oh, cost advantage in 2015 would be awesome. The question is what kind of cost advantage will RAH have between 2010 and 2015. The main expenses of an
86 Post contains images Airport : This is kind of an aside while we're talking about the new brand. I really love the current F9 livery, as you could judge from my posts, lol. But I do
87 viajero : Sorry in advance if this has been previously covered, but what are the proposed new names being considered for the "New Republic" as BB calls it? Than
88 FRNT787 : F9s CASM ex. fuel is lower than WN (I already said this). Seems like a cost advantage at DEN from the period of 2010-2015. With C-Series, that will o
89 FRNT787 : Other than the typical Frontier, Midwest, and Republic options, I am not sure. The surveys had "New Air" listed, but that clearly a place-filler.
90 LRDC9 : Yah I dont feel like looking it up (cause I'm lazy, and writing an english speech on BB), but could somebody post the F9, YX/RW, and WN CASMs for com
91 mariner : And I presume they call on expert advice. Since the oil price crisis began (and even before), fuel trading specialists have made big bucks as advisor
92 beryllium : No intent to insult anyone, but talent usually have choices and goes where the money is. Retention rate is a quite accurate indicator in this regard.
93 Post contains links FRNT787 : Comparing A319 to 73G: F9: 5.89 cents WN: 6.26 cents FL: 5.74 UA: 9.47 Operating Costs per Block Hour: F9 A319: $2729 FL 73G: $2831 WN 73G: $2831 UA
94 Post contains images LRDC9 : What a strange feeling. Incredible even. It's almost like I 100% agree with everything you just said. Well put!
95 FRNT787 : So then I am to assume AA has the best F.As. then. I am to assume that DL and AA pilots never make mistakes. I am to assume then the best airline CEO
96 FRNT787 : Exactly right. I presume the RAH management is just as good at seeking advice from experts as the established branded carriers. At the very least, I
97 Post contains images beryllium : Funny thing about experts/consultants... they usually tell you not the way it is, but the way you want it to hear... In the first half of 2008 we wer
98 LRDC9 : Thanks for posting that. I never realized there was such a massive disparity between the LCC sand UA. Startling they make any money at all. Seems F9
99 beryllium : You can also assume that not every RAH pilot or FA will be even considered for employment at AA or DL. Even fewer will go as far as getting an interv
100 FRNT787 : Ya, as you can see, they are lower than WN, and slightly above FL on the pure CASM figures. For block hour operation costs, though, it shows them as
101 Post contains images beryllium : Those numbers are from RAH presentation, though. It's possbile that presentations from WN, FL, or even UA sources would show somewhat different numbe
102 mariner : Oh, come on. LOL. It is extraordinarily easy to check their credentials and their track record. No one makes a reputation on lying to their clients -
103 FRNT787 : Yes it is. RAH has higher standards than many of the other regionals for pilots at least. But what you failed to do is answer my point. Pay is not eq
104 beryllium : Lucky you. Sure, some of them know their stuff... but besides experts, there are plenty of "experts" out there, too...
105 mariner : Luck had nothing to do with it. My two co-defendants, both mega corporations, were both prepared to settle, as they often do, to make the case "go aw
106 beryllium : As you like to say (post #88): "That is a completely invalid argument". The correlation between talent and pay is a lot stronger than you think. Tale
107 beryllium : You look at it all in either "black" or "white". White - for FRNT787, Airframe, and others, who always agree with every word you say. Black - for me,
108 Post contains links mariner : LOL. I was questioning your dismissal of experts and why you think Republic is not capable of finding out the reputation of an expert. If you want to
109 beryllium : I've heard that their flight crews are one of the most well-compensated in the industry. If that is true (and "other things being equal"), then there
110 Post contains images mariner : When did I say it is a surprise? I was just quoting their numbers - and, along the way, agreeing with one of your points mariner
111 Post contains images beryllium : When did I say that you said that it is a surprise? I said "there is no surprise..."
112 FRNT787 : Ok, fair enough. I do not believe it is that, to quote you, black and white. But fair enough. I see your point, and we should probably stop taking th
113 mariner : And I was making the point that I agree, and never suggested otherwise. I didn't want another "misunderstanding." LOL. mariner
114 PlanesNTrains : Yes, but in reality, you are going to attract the best talent that you can afford. Not every company can pay top dollar. It doesn't mean that you hir
115 Post contains images AirframeAS : Let me get back to you on that. I need to ask for permission to give out such info in which case I don't think I am allowed to... But let me get back
116 Post contains images Airport : Yes, but the A320 fuselage's...aspect ratio?(I don't know what you'd call it) ....is different than the E-190. While the A320's fuselage is longer, i
117 AirframeAS : They've got professionals who probably have that all covered already. They know what they need to do.
118 Post contains images mariner : Not a frog. Not a swan. N205FR is the return of another old friend, the orca. mariner
119 MSYtristar : Great to see "Ozzie" make a comeback! (They used the name I suggested when they had the employee "name the plane" contests)
120 Post contains images AirframeAS : They have not announced that to employees yet. That sucks how you guys get the info before the employees do. Even if 205 is the Orca, it might have a
121 mariner : Friends in low places. LOL. I woke up to a message about it. There is a photo of if on another website, but it won't load for me. I was surprised at
122 Post contains images kingcavalier : That's cool.
123 FRNT787 : Aren't some of them built in Hamburg as well?
124 Post contains links mariner : I guess they must be now. I see on the production list that a few of them get a D rego. http://www.planespotters.net/Product...0Family/index.php?sort
125 AirframeAS : Yeah, I remember reading about some drawing to go pick up an F9 airplane somewhere early last year. I cannot remember where.... It listed Hamburg as
126 beryllium : I thought, D-AXAB registration was actually for one of the A380s (which currently flies for Emirates under Reg A6-EDB)... Reg Aircraft Type Airline E
127 LRDC9 : I thought manufacturers reuse reg's? I'm almost positive embraer and boeing do.
128 Post contains links and images mariner : It was. View Large View MediumPhoto © Alejandro Espinoza They do. At least - I know Airbus does. mariner
129 Post contains links UAL747DEN : Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 125):Yeah, I remember reading about some drawing to go pick up an F9 airplane somewhere early last year. I cannot remember w
130 PlanesNTrains : Boy, one hopes that they keep these tails through the branding decision. Stunning! -Dave[Edited 2010-03-19 19:00:56 by srbmod]
131 MCI10 : I hope it is Ozzie. That was my favorite tail.
132 mariner : It is Ozzie and the photo of it is up on another website of airline/aircraft (Jet) photographs. The photo shows the full tail and part of the fuselag
133 NZblue : Beautiful! My favorite tail is making a comeback! Can't wait to work on her!
134 FRNT787 : That production line has been there a while. I am not sure if was formally an outfitting line or something else. But it seems A320s roll out of 3 fac
135 MCI10 : Awesome! Its the best tail out there, now. Hopefully she will make an appearance in MCI.
136 Post contains links mariner : Ah - foolish moi. I forgot they had shifted some A320 final assembly to Finkenwerder. Thanks. I see that N206FR - MSN 4272 - is listed for Toulouse:
137 beryllium : Bedford will keep the animal theme... and, being a real adventurer, will name it "SkyZoo"...
138 Post contains images FRNT787 : GOOD! That was a joke. (That is why I added the smile). It was apparently lost in type, so I apologize for that. I am not sure you are wrong. I just
139 Post contains images FRNT787 : So F9 gets the Airbus tour . (I dont think they will get a Tianjin bird though. I think those all go to Chinese airlines.)
140 Post contains images F9Animal : Remember the good old days of F9? Employee names would be drawn, and winners of the drawing would get a trip to Airbus to pick up the next airplane!
141 AirframeAS : I didn't know you were a F9 employee back then. No, I don't think we do that anymore.
142 KDEN : Hello all, I've been following the F9/YX rebranding debate since it started, and I understand whatever happens will be done in the best interest of Re
143 LRDC9 : Well they probably had to commit o a certain livery for this a/c a few weeks back. At that time they may not have come to a final decision. They stil
144 enilria : Me, but Arthur is not an airline guy. He does one thing. He creates brands. If you met him you'd understand that he isn't going to present any strate
145 KDEN : I agree. It would be a terrible decision to paint a plane in the new brand/livery and *hope* that nobody sees it until the official announcement next
146 Post contains links and images mariner : I agree, sort of, with your assessment of Mr Arthur's place in the scheme of things, but I'm not sure about your conclusions. Rebranding, in itself,
147 timf : Republic sent an E190 to GLH for paint yesterday. I assume this is one of the ex-US aircraft. Maybe this aircraft will provide some insight into the n
148 FRNT787 : Ok. Makes sense. I like the way they have been splitting up what was to be Menke's job into other positions. Arthur will handle the branding as you s
149 sunking737 : My question is if the "animals" on the tail are a big decal, could the "FRONTIER" be too. If it is and they keep the white fuselage would it be faster
150 AirframeAS : Animals are decaled but the FRONTIER is glitter paint. That is the cheapest way to do it, IMO. If, a big IF at that... If the new livery is in ther w
151 Post contains images enilria : Unless you have a source that says otherwise, all of my connections at all three airlines say it will be Republic or something else entirely. Let's b
152 Post contains images mariner : I don't count on anything until it happens. I can imagine why BB would want it to be Republic and I can see many very good reasons for it becoming Re
153 Post contains links and images LRDC9 : On that basis alone they should establish something for the gay community similar to what AA has done. Somebody mentioned earlier that FRONTIER and R
154 enilria : I want the F9 brand to survive. I don't report what I *want* to happen, but rather what I understand is going to happen. My point is that you don't g
155 mariner : Okay. I'm not sure what that has to do with what I wrote. I don't know what name it is going to be. I've heard rumors, but that's all I've heard. If
156 Post contains images LRDC9 : I don't really understand what the problem is. Why would they be unable to run a self branded airline or else rename 'Republic' so that the brand wou
157 mariner : It is something else, a tad further down the track. They can call it whatever they want - and will - and I don't have any problem with the name Repub
158 Post contains images AirframeAS : Any of those on YouTube? I have never seen these commercials. I believe that was KingCavalier that said something about that. That's a good point the
159 Post contains images mariner : It is certainly the simplest way of handling it. It is not the only way. They could call the branded operation anything else - "Mariner Airways" - an
160 Post contains images FRNT787 : I am going to call BB right now to make that suggestion.
161 Post contains images AirframeAS : I second that motion!!! We all bow to Mariner! *bows*
162 mariner : LOL. It goes to the heart of the Republic Airways Holdings structure. Example: immediately after the acquisition (about October 2, 2009) word reached
163 LRDC9 : Sarcasm my lad. I third that. Hooray for covering your @$$.
164 Post contains images YXwatcherMkE : And Who says that Mr. Bedford does not know what he is doing or how to run an airline. So SM is gone but BB has brought in people to take on SM's res
165 beryllium : Bedford is considering naming it "Republic" just because it is the name of his holding company, and therefore his "pride and joy". But I don't think
166 YXwatcherMkE : Keeping the F9 Brand would be a smart move. Even though YX is better known here in MKE the way the YX advertising is being done on TV and Radio the Fr
167 Post contains images mariner : You got it. BB may yearn to have the branded operation flying as Republic, its his creation, his colors, his banner, but his primary priority is to p
168 enilria : Can I take credit for being the first to post the legal problems? BTW, I'm told they are now resolved to BB's satisfaction and that the hiring of Art
169 MSYtristar : I was at the Denver Zoo for the inaugural presentation of the "Whole Different Animal" brand. It was quite a show. No one knew what to expect. I was
170 enilria : NEWS My sources say that WN will announce another salvo of DEN flights tomorrow afternoon. I'm hearing some will start as early as Memorial Day, which
171 ScottB : There are advantages and disadvantages to this sort of structure, of course. The big advantage, as you stated, is that obligations of the subsidiary
172 USPIT10L : What about the potential between Republic and US Airways? The eastern operation would dovetail nicely with the DEN and MKE hubs, giving US the midcont
173 Post contains images mariner : Hmmm? It happens a lot. Working in reverse, Mesa has kept Go!!/Mokulele quite separate from its own bankruptcy. I thought you said the legal problems
174 Post contains images AirframeAS : Duly noted, my friend! Thanks for the background on that. Too bad there are no commercials on YouTube. If Mesa owns Mokulele, then what does RAH have
175 enilria : I said BB is satisfied there are no legal problems. That only means he's no longer concerned. ALPA, OTOH, should lob a grenade just for fun. Although
176 FRNT787 : Mesa owns 75% of the Go!/Mokulele joint venture. RAH and the other owners of Mokulele own 25% of the j.v.
177 Post contains images mariner : Sure. I assume we are talking about a CEO who has the wit to keep these things in line. So I'm amused about the new Airbus Line of Credit and the rea
178 Post contains images beryllium : They are serious about growing in DEN, and grabbing more and more of a market share. (Something tells me, though, that DENBKG will not be in that lis
179 FRNT787 : I am quite confused as to how you arrived at that conclusion.
180 mariner : "As we all know"? I don't know that. mariner
181 Post contains links FRNT787 : http://denver.bizjournals.com/denver...story4.html?b=1269230400%5E3059821 the DBJ had an article which has several quotations from Mr. Arthur discussi
182 Post contains images dfanucci : Heh.... That little blurb is telling. It's down to either Midwest or Frontier. or It's one heck of a way to throw off the dogs until a new Airline na
183 FRNT787 : My thoughts exactly. But I have learned to let the cards fall before I try to figure out what RAH is holding. Generally, when they fall though, it al
184 Post contains images enilria : Sure. There is now another thread confirming what I'd reported earlier. WN will have a schedule change announcement tomorrow. There will at least be
185 USPIT10L : Parker has been rambling about future airline consolidation even before the ink dried on his acquisition of US Airways out of BK in 2005. Tilton has
186 mariner : That much I know (and agree with). But that is a long way from he is "desperate to sell." mariner[Edited 2010-03-22 15:04:19]
187 Post contains images mariner : It is my understanding that the Fat Lady ain't sung on that yet. mariner
188 beryllium : That's my assumption, based on what I see is going on. Certainly, it can turn out to be incorrect. But, I do not give RAH more than two years of figh
189 UAL747DEN : The CO presidents club is an interesting thing in DEN right now. It is very nice and very expensive so with CO moving out it was something that had D
190 Post contains images enilria : It's clearly a matter of opinion, but if the DL brand only resonates in ATL as you posit, that's a failure for the world's largest airline. I guess n
191 PlanesNTrains : I would wait until the outcome of their grievance was known before tossing BB to the curb. I don't really follow him much, but his way of doing busin
192 sunking737 : I would rule out Midwest, sounds too regional. I know what most will say. They say re-branding...does that mean changing name or new marketing campaig
193 Post contains images mariner : Bingo. That seems to me to be entirely missing from the debate - that these over-achievers actually enjoy what they do, that they thrive on challenge
194 FRNT787 : WN is by some accounts number 2 at DEN right now, yet F9 is not doing badly at all. It really seems that UA is suffering the most. F9s market share h
195 Post contains images LRDC9 : I fervently disagree. I think F9 has a greater than fighting chance in DEN. They have been more than holding their own against WN and all indications
196 FRNT787 : The entire team there gives me the same impression. BB is obviously the leader, and the company is his to run so to speak. From everything I have see
197 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : Well, again, I really am not a student of BB, but from everything I've seen and read here, that is how he sounds. The flip side, though, is that some
198 beryllium : According to me they will be driven out. But that's according to me... According to them the expectation, I suppose, is different... That's why they
199 PlanesNTrains : Unless, of course, they are actually profitable in DEN. I don't know whether they are or aren't, but if they are - even modestly - then they have tim
200 beryllium : DEN is a bloodbath. I don't think anyone is profitable there. There is a combination of overcapacity and low yields in that market as of today. Capac
201 RJ777 : What about ressurecting the National name (again)?
202 Post contains images AirframeAS : Thanks to you both for this info. I learned something new. Like I have been saying for awhile now. The name is important. How so? Care to explain in
203 PlanesNTrains : Branded ops in the 4th quarter lost $18million. Talk here (that's all I have to go by) was that Midwest likely was responsible for the majority, with
204 Post contains links AirframeAS : Here is a video I stumbled upon the "Keep The Frontier Brand and Animals" on Facebook.... Funny nonetheless.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpNLdEW
205 Post contains images LRDC9 : That was for my personal fancy. No body said it makes sense. Like I said if I could really name it anything I wanted F9 and YX would be known from he
206 knope2001 : On the conference call for Q4 2009 they stated that loss on branded operation was $18.5m, however that number has a lot of "noise" in it. When things
207 enilria : That's a fallacy. F9's market share is down about 4 points in Denver which is about 20% of what they had. That's significant. I've posted the exact n
208 MSYtristar : Only if they find a way to bring the "Sun King" back. That was a great logo. I doubt WN will be flying nonstop to JAX and PVD from DEN. Both are long
209 GentFromAlaska : Concur, I went back and looked at some of the RITA data a month or so ago. The enplanement data dictates the same thing quarter over quarter. With th
210 Post contains images enilria : Once again my sources were pretty accurate. 11 more DEN flights. So F9 added a bunch of DEN flying that doesn't overlap WN, but WN added 11 more flig
211 PlanesNTrains : Thank you for clarifying. It would seem logical to offer "unique" destinations - ones not offered by soemone else - as part of their business plan. H
212 AirframeAS : I don't consider WN flying to IAD as competition to F9 flying to DCA. Two totally different animals, no pun intended. They are not the same market.
213 mariner : Rationally, I agree, but - anything's possible. But I sure hope Frontier/Midwest doesn't add them. Three or four years ago, Jeff Potter described DEN
214 boydatageek : On this board, Frontier is more pupular than Midwest, however if you go to boardsw that are more Frequent Flyer focused than airliner focused, Midwes
215 FRNT787 : BB has said he does not to the point he is still profitable. As Mariner has often pointed out, F9 was most profitable when it was smaller. I dont car
216 beryllium : Explanation is in my previous posts. They are in English. Yes, it is my second language, but normal people (with healthy reactions) usually have no t
217 FRNT787 : They also had major one-time losses....too....so the branded ops did not do as badly as you think
218 beryllium : Compare major one-time losses with major one-time gains in their income statement (annual report), and you will see what was smaller and what was big
219 mariner : I agree, but that's tough for some to accept. Southwest, or maybe it's just some Southwest supporters, seem obsessed with Frontier and DEN - mighty S
220 MSYtristar : As would I. There's only so much that can realistically be added from DEN. And I think most...the vast majority...of the routes which can reasonably
221 Post contains links knope2001 : Sure...here goes. The discussion of the branded operations results *specifically excluded* the $94.5 million ($109.2 million negative from goodwill i
222 Post contains images dfanucci : Hmmmm Just got my EarlyReturns email with the headline "It's a whale of a sale" with a shot of the Orca tail... Interesting timing. -D
223 mariner : I'd go even further. I'd say there has to be more than DEN - and there has to be more than MCO. It's hardly an original thought of mine, SM said it,
224 sunking737 : Does anyone know where SM is, or he sitting counting his money and waiting until he can get hired again by another airline.
225 AirframeAS : Exactly! As long as we are profitable, I could care less if we were # 10 in DEN. If BB was smart, he would keep the F9 name. His legal issues would b
226 ERJ170 : I agree.. although MKE is looking very good.. Are you thinking more Point-2-Point? More international? More spokes? More focus cities? Just wondering
227 Post contains images LRDC9 : Weel when you put it that way, it is a best a skew. Try including all of the hubs and focus cities. So like : MSP,DTW,CVG,IND,DCA,LGA,ATL,SLC,SEA. An
228 sunking737 : When I worked for the original REPUBLIC in MSP, I was told there was a route map showing all the places that RC had route authority. I believe it was
229 AirframeAS : Does anyone remember when SJC is supposed to end?
230 Post contains images mariner : No, I'm just trying to blast it wide open, although I suppose i'm back on my old hobby horse - connect the dots. Example: When they started DEN-JAX,
231 kingcavalier : I thought it was JAX-SJU?
232 ERJ170 : There's another route that I know of that has 202 ppd that is not served either.. highly sought after route and proved somewhat successful for 2 airl
233 mariner : Yes, it was. My bad. I tried to edit it, but it got too hard. JAX to San Juan, Puerto Rico, which makes a lot more sense. LOL. mariner[Edited 2010-03
234 Post contains images AirframeAS : Rico, sir.
235 mariner : Now I wonder where that could be - LOL. But I agree. I think it make s a deal of sense, it's an exact example of what I mean and there is always the
236 mariner : That, too. As you can see, I am still in Costa Rica today. Gender confusion. LOL. mariner
237 beryllium : You are right. I mistakenly thought that the results for branded ops took into account one-time gains... Thanks for clarifying... (I guess, I confuse
238 mariner : I guess that's a point of view. But - as I said - maybe it is some Southwest supporters whom seem obsessed by DEN. You keep saying "elimination" - ab
239 AirframeAS : Then explain the mega expansion that they have been doing in the last 3+ years or so over any other WN city in their history..... And adding more fli
240 Post contains images LRDC9 : They aren't obsessed, they are neurotic . It seems strange to me that they would dump such resources when they aren't winning, and likely wont be for
241 AirframeAS : With that in mind with advertising, why isn't RAH advertising here in DEN?? (Excluding the emails for FF'ers)
242 MKENut : Midwest does a lot of radio advertisements in Milwaukee and some TV ads too. The TV ads are usually during a sporting event. I am glad they still use
243 Post contains images AirframeAS : But here in DEN, all I see is the FF email for F9. There are no billboards or TV ads as of late. My question is why? It is good to see MKE getting so
244 MKENut : There must be a reason why Midwest gets a bigger advertising budget. I'm not sure I am willing to guess in here and make it public. LOL
245 Post contains images GentFromAlaska : My DEN is the perfect geographical hub, (alright focus city) the Contential Divide is the perfect launching point to fly East, West and South.
246 Post contains images enilria : I would fully agree with that statement. They didn't do the appropriate amount of internal cheerleading necessary to get the needed focus on the new
247 Post contains images mariner : That was one of my great concerns - the lack of pizzaz. There were other puzzles. LAX-SFO was supposed to be the keystone of a full-on western strate
248 beryllium : WN is going after the weakest link. They know that right now it is easier in DEN than anywhere else to defeat or even eliminate the competitor, becaus
249 mariner : I thought I was discussing the attitude of certain Southwest supporters, whom seem quite obsessed with Frontier's potential failure. Still, it's good
250 beryllium : Why obsessed? I thought we were discussing pros and cons of different aspects related to RAH/F9/YX. If someone thinks that RAH branded operations wil
251 Post contains links and images mariner : If the cap fits, but you are very far from being the only Southwest supporter who has proclaimed - loudly and harshly - Frontier's death at DEN over
252 Post contains images beryllium : Denver does have seasons... But it also has F9 as a hub carrier, which WN wants to get out of the way... That's why WN is applying more pressure and
253 PlanesNTrains : I'm sure that's true. However, I was replying to someone who feels otherwise. "Agree with what?" Hmmm, it seems pretty clear what I was saying. If yo
254 Post contains images mariner : They had the chance. They should have raised the price by about $100 million. Then it would al be over. mariner
255 PlanesNTrains : True. Either WN grossly under-estimated Bedford, or they are grossly whipped by their pilot's union. Or, I suppose, it was all a cat-and-mouse game t
256 Post contains links mariner : I dunno. My own view is the former, because I think many people underestimated what BB had set-up - certainly many here did. Mr. Kelly pretty much co
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