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Horizon Air And The CR7  
User currently offlinecaleb1 From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 364 posts, RR: 3
Posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7728 times:
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I know that Horizon will sooner or later eliminate the CR7 from their fleet. I wonder however, if this is still such a good idea. I 'm no technical expert, but it seems as though the CR7 is a great aircraft for longer, thinner routes such as PDX-LGB. Is it still in Horizon's best interest to remove this aircraft time from its fleet?

49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5910 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7567 times:
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Quoting caleb1 (Thread starter):
I know that Horizon will sooner or later eliminate the CR7 from their fleet. I wonder however, if this is still such a good idea. I 'm no technical expert, but it seems as though the CR7 is a great aircraft for longer, thinner routes such as PDX-LGB. Is it still in Horizon's best interest to remove this aircraft time from its fleet?

Unfortunately, QX is dropping the PDX-LGB route, but adding to the PDX-BUR and somewhere else. I'm hoping that QX retains their remaining CR7's to keep their longer routes. I'm pretty sure QX will not be ordering more or try to get 2nd-hand CR7's in the future. In a way, I wish they would order something that's a little wider than the CR7's...I miss those Fokker F28's. How about E-170's? I know...pipe dream...ain't gonna happen.


User currently offlineSuperDash From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 574 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7235 times:

I would love to see them keep about 15 birds (they have 18), upgrade the interior to at least a trimmer seat. I find SkyWest's CRJ-700s much more comfortable than Horizon's. And fly the CRJs on those Portland-Cal type routes. Those routes just aren't going to be big enough for all Alaska jets anytime soon. But I don't think that or anything Wedgetail737 said are going to happen.   

User currently offlineAirport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7201 times:

The problem is that QX has been having a lot of trouble finding buyers. I think the CRJ-700s will be around for a lot longer than people expect, perhaps for the next 5 years. The CRJ-700 fills some niche routes that the Q400 can't do effectively, such as the Santa Barbara routes, PDX-SFO (which they're not allowed to do period), as well as PDX-LAX area (which I strongly doubt they could compete effectively against WN).
AS doesn't have enough planes to fill all these gaps if the CRJ-700 leave. And while yes, the Q400 is a more fuel efficient airplane, jet fuel prices have gone down significantly since it was announced the CRJ-700 would be leaving. There's plenty of reason to believe that the CRJ-700s will be around until jet fuel prices sharply rise again.

So, in short, I think they will be around for some time longer than people think. Unless they have a buyer that's ready to give them a price they're looking for, which they don't, and I doubt they will for a while. In fact, I've heard that they've taken the CRJ-700s off the market entirely, but I don't know how reliable that information is.

And, interestingly enough, there's a rumor going around that QX is taking back 12 furloughed CRJ-700 pilots. Can anyone comfirm or deny?


User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2760 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 7067 times:

Quoting Airport (Reply 3):
And, interestingly enough, there's a rumor going around that QX is taking back 12 furloughed CRJ-700 pilots. Can anyone comfirm or deny

I've heard the rumor of 12 recalls as well. I've heard nothing about which aircraft they will be put in.



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineAEroc From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 7043 times:

If they get rid of the CR7's will they be dropping SBA or have a tag on route like they have now with the Q's? PDX-SMF-SBA.

Its been a few years since I have been to SBA and remember them having PDX/SEA-SBA direct on the CR7's but now PDX stops in SMF and I'm not sure if they have SEA-SBA anymore.


User currently onlineridgid727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1129 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7034 times:

the upstart California Pacific Airlines based in Carlsbad California, which is being formed by Ted Vallas, the former owner of Air Resorts, has shown interest in the QX fleet of CR7's. They currently have the opening page of a website up at iflycpa.com.

User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5910 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6948 times:
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Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 6):
They currently have the opening page of a website up at iflycpa.com.

I'll believe it when I see it.

Quoting AEroc (Reply 5):
I'm not sure if they have SEA-SBA anymore.

Yes...they still have 1X daily SEA-SBA.


User currently offlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2116 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6773 times:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 1):
but adding to the PDX-BUR and somewhere else.

They're adding one extra PDX-ONT segment.

Quoting Airport (Reply 3):
as well as PDX-LAX area (which I strongly doubt they could compete effectively against WN).

PDX-LAX is all AS again. They've cut one flight, but have put 738s on the routes. And those flights usually go out VERY full (or at least the half dozen times I've been on recently).

Quoting Airport (Reply 3):

And, interestingly enough, there's a rumor going around that QX is taking back 12 furloughed CRJ-700 pilots. Can anyone comfirm or deny?

I know one of the furloughed RJ7 pilots. He is actually taking a year leave of absence (a voluntary furlough, I guess). I'll have to ask him next time I talk to him. I'm not sure if he'll be recalled or if he's under a different program.


User currently offlineflyPBA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6738 times:

if Horizon got E170s ... Alaska pilots would freak out.

User currently offlinehatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6534 times:

Quoting flyPBA (Reply 9):
if Horizon got E170s ... Alaska pilots would freak out.

Why? Same number of seats as a Q400 or CR7.


User currently offlineDrewski2112 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 119 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6484 times:

Quoting Airport (Reply 3):
And, interestingly enough, there's a rumor going around that QX is taking back 12 furloughed CRJ-700 pilots. Can anyone comfirm or deny?

I heard a rumor that Horizon will provide a CR7 for 2x daily BFI-PMD charter flights in the coming weeks.


User currently offlineFX1816 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1400 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6475 times:

Quoting Drewski2112 (Reply 11):
Quoting Airport (Reply 3):
And, interestingly enough, there's a rumor going around that QX is taking back 12 furloughed CRJ-700 pilots. Can anyone comfirm or deny?

I heard a rumor that Horizon will provide a CR7 for 2x daily BFI-PMD charter flights in the coming weeks.

Wow that would be nice if they did do that but I haven't heard anything or seen anything from the guys at PMD but it would be nice.

FX1816


User currently offlinehatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6456 times:

Quoting Airport (Reply 3):
And, interestingly enough, there's a rumor going around that QX is taking back 12 furloughed CRJ-700 pilots. Can anyone comfirm or deny?
Quoting chrisair (Reply 8):
I know one of the furloughed RJ7 pilots. He is actually taking a year leave of absence (a voluntary furlough, I guess). I'll have to ask him next time I talk to him. I'm not sure if he'll be recalled or if he's under a different program.
Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 4):
I've heard the rumor of 12 recalls as well. I've heard nothing about which aircraft they will be put in.

It is no rumor. 12 CR7 pilots are being recalled and 6 downgraded Q400 Captains will also be requalified as Captains.


User currently offlineABQopsHP From United States of America, joined May 2006, 851 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6427 times:

Im missing something here. Whats the significance of BFI-PMD route? I know BFI is near the boarder and PMD has Edwards AFB, but I cant make the connection.
JD CRPXE



A line is evidence that other people exist.
User currently offlineSuperDash From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 574 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6381 times:

Quoting flyPBA (Reply 9):
if Horizon got E170s ... Alaska pilots would freak out.

Not on the E-170s. Those are the same as the CRJ-700. If the CRJ doesn't work, they won't buy the 170 as both planes net out to about the same operating cost. Now the 190 on the other hand....

Alaska has a new pilot contract and I have no idea what was includeded in it for scope. But that was one of the outstanding issues. Something tells me the 190s would have to be flown by Alaska.


User currently offlinecschleic From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1249 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6240 times:

Quoting AEroc (Reply 5):
and I'm not sure if they have SEA-SBA anymore.

Yes, still do SEA - SBA. once a day.

But as a regular passenger on PDX - Bay Area/Socal trips, getting crammed into the 700's is becoming tiresome at best.

A FA recently told me that on some routes, in this case PDX - OAK, Alaska is paying Horizon to fly the route, as opposed to it being a true Horizon route (e.g. PDX - SEA).



Quoting Airport (Reply 3):
In fact, I've heard that they've taken the CRJ-700s off the market entirely, but I don't know how reliable that information is.

Would be interesting to know. Since the original plan was to go all Q400, in that case would they use those for longer routes to California, which would be worse than the CRJ's?


User currently offlineFX1816 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1400 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6226 times:

Quoting ABQopsHP (Reply 14):
Im missing something here. Whats the significance of BFI-PMD route? I know BFI is near the boarder and PMD has Edwards AFB, but I cant make the connection.
JD CRPXE

Yeah I figured the same thing I mean SkyWest wasn't able to do it going to SFO with CRJ's so I don't see how BFI would work to PMD unless maybe Boeing is planning something we don't know at PMD or EDW.

FX1816


User currently offlinecschleic From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1249 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6224 times:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 1):
Unfortunately, QX is dropping the PDX-LGB

When is this happening? Is B6 keeping its two flights?


User currently offlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2116 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6208 times:

Quoting ABQopsHP (Reply 14):
I know BFI is near the boarder and PMD has Edwards AFB, but I cant make the connection.

You're thinking of Bellingham. BFI (Boeing Field) is nowhere near the US/Canada border.


User currently offlinesxf24 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1262 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6112 times:

Quoting ABQopsHP (Reply 14):
Im missing something here. Whats the significance of BFI-PMD route? I know BFI is near the boarder and PMD has Edwards AFB, but I cant make the connection.

Probably a charter for Boeing.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6045 times:

I flew on a QX CR7 a few months back out of PDX to SEA. Man, that plane pulls a lot of G's on turns after take-off.


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineflyboy80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1878 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5870 times:

The QX CR7s could really use a touch up on the interior as they are becomming rather worn. Skywest has the upgraded seats, as well as the large lav in the back which makes a big difference on those long flights, however they also have their birds configured to 66 seats- unsure if horizon could have the same full width aft lav with 70 seats.

I do remember sometime in 2008 a pod-cast from the CEO indicated they were indeed evaluating several options with the fleet transition and had used the language of having a third party fly larger RJs. There was a annimated shiloutte of a EMB190 flying around in the background during that part of the video. I was told that Horizon (or another regional perhaps?) can fly up to 99 seats with the current ALPA/AS agreement.


User currently offlinecschleic From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1249 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5548 times:

Quoting flyboy80 (Reply 22):
The QX CR7s could really use a touch up on the interior as they are becomming rather worn. Skywest has the upgraded seats, as well as the large lav in the back which makes a big difference on those long flights, however they also have their birds configured to 66 seats- unsure if horizon could have the same full width aft lav with 70 seats

The QX CRJ lavs are ridiculously small. The FA's joke about it in the pre-flight safety briefings. On 2 1/2 flights, it's a bit much. I once spent over four hours on one.... PDX - SFO - Tucson (yes, they once flew SFO - Tucson) but due to delays and a quick turn, we couldn't get off the plane at SFO. So.....THAT was too much. And the windows are always dirty and scratched.


User currently offlinehatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 24, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5456 times:

Quoting flyboy80 (Reply 22):
Skywest has the upgraded seats, as well as the large lav in the back which makes a big difference on those long flights, however they also have their birds configured to 66 seats- unsure if horizon could have the same full width aft lav with 70 seats.

I believe OO's CR7s have smaller cargo compartments because of this. If you look at the Bombardier website you can see the seat maps and the change in cargo volume. This could be a reason why QX didn't go with that as it would hurt potential bag/cargo space.


25 bjorn14 : Is CLD's runway even long enough for the CRJ700 unless they are really, really short legs?
26 wedgetail737 : These QX flights are indeed charters for Boeing to support the 747-8 Flight Test Program. The actual flight testing is being completed at PMD (mainly
27 FX1816 : Oh really, when can we expect the 748 down here??? We have a 787 at VCV that does daily circuits in the pattern there and occasionally will move over
28 chrisair : I did that flight a bunch of times, along with TUS-SJC-PDX. It wasn't that bad. I was able to get off the plane in SJC and walk around the ramp. In S
29 BoeEngr : You should see a 747-8 in Victorville sometime next month, and in Palmdale in May. *edited to simplify post*[Edited 2010-03-15 13:08:25]
30 FX1816 : Very nice, thank you. I will be on look out for their inbound flight plans at work so I can see them when they arrive. FX1816
31 bahadir : This is a charter for Boeing employees commuting for the 747-8 tests.
32 n7371f : There has been plenty of talk the past five years or so regarding a possible Alaska Express-type service. It's really no secret AS isn't a big fan of
33 wedgetail737 : I always thought that moving the brunt of PDX service to QX was a bad idea. But I guess you have to evaluate the risks of keeping your market frequen
34 chrisair : I hope so. I'm a big AS fan, but I'm fairly limited on when I can fly them. If I have a choice to fly a QX Q400 or a WN 737, I'm going on the 737 eve
35 Airport : Indeed, I've heard that AS is currently planning on opening (re-opening?) its pilot base in PDX. I can't say that with certainty, but I do know that
36 chrisair : I believe a business has to be based in Oregon (that is, they have to pay Oregon taxes) for the tax hikes to go into effect. So it wouldn't affect th
37 wedgetail737 : But you can fly AS 737's on the PDX-SJC route. They continue to AUS. I would like to see more AS flying out PDX, but do they have the resources???
38 n7371f : I have also heard that a PDX pilots base is planned...and apparently bids will be showing up later in 2010. It's fluid though, so it could change. Al
39 cschleic : Nike isn't going to move out of Oregon. Other than B6 to LGB, from both PDX and SEA, AS provides the only non-stop service to the other L.A. area air
40 BigGSFO : It would be awesome for more mainline back into PDX. Now that I live up here, I have shifted my loyalty away from UA to AS and it's code-share hos AA
41 mcg : Isn't it at least a little ironic that QX operates a charter for Boeing using Bombardier equipment?
42 canoecarrier : Not really, when you consider that it's part of Alaska Air Group and AS flies an all Boeing fleet. I fly QX or AS whenever I can. Their FF program is
43 sxf24 : I've flown this route several times and thought it was fine.
44 Airport : I think a lot of it depends on where you sit. I had the chance to fly BOI-LAX on the Q400, and sitting in the very back away from the engine, I found
45 alexinwa : I believe it was more like 6 a day. Two to GEG and four to PDX. It could begin as early as this summer.
46 chrisair : It's two flights a day, compared to WN's 4-5 flights a day. It's a start though..... I've heard they were given the OK. I've never understood the NIM
47 Post contains images Airport : Hahaha, perhaps true, but when the Fokkers were flying I was just a wee little kid who was entirely awestruck by aviation, and I flew on them countle
48 canoecarrier : If you're ok with a seat that doesn't recline on a flight that's over an hour long then fine. If the ticket price is the same on another airline I'd
49 n7371f : Horizon doesn't have a spare plane sitting around, unless there's a lot of slack in the schedule. So adding PAE would likely result in a similar numb
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