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Iberia To Stop Short Haul  
User currently offlinehotplane From UK - England, joined Jul 2006, 1038 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 20084 times:

Don't think this has been mentioned here yet:

http://worldairlinenews.wordpress.co...rt-and-medium-haul-routes-by-2015/


?
38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineVasu From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 3900 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 19989 times:

Interesting!

I wonder how many other "National Carrier" type airlines will do the same... leave the short-haul to the likes of EZY and FR...?


User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2559 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 19752 times:

Quoting Vasu (Reply 1):
I wonder how many other "National Carrier" type airlines will do the same... leave the short-haul to the likes of EZY and FR...?

Iberia will still offer connections between its long haul destinations and cities in Spain and Europe. What they want is to create a subsidiary that will employ staff on new, more flexible contracts that mean a reduction in operating costs, and a stops its losses on the short haul network.


User currently offlineJER757 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 350 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 19573 times:

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 2):
What they want is to create a subsidiary that will employ staff on new, more flexible contracts that mean a reduction in operating costs, and a stops its losses on the short haul network.

It mentions in the article that it will take over BA's shorthaul. Just imagine the field day Unite are going to have over that!



Gale force fog... don't you love it?
User currently offlineclydenairways From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 1233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 19326 times:

They must be getting battered by both FR and U2 on short haul from their Main hub, MAD.

MAD is also one of the few Major Hub airports that FR has a base.


User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1764 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 19053 times:

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 2):
What they want is to create a subsidiary that will employ staff on new, more flexible contracts that mean a reduction in operating costs, and a stops its losses on the short haul network.

Yes. This idea was announced towards the end of last year (even before the BA merger) as part of the IB board's 5-year plan, and it caused a bit of an uproar amongst their unions. Since then, I don't think IB has said anything new about this plan, which seems like a great idea but difficult to execute for those same labor issues.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/oct/22/iberia-european-revamp

Iberia will replace its domestic and European programme with a new and as yet unnamed airline, operating as a wholly owned subsidiary. From 2011, the new airline, which the company stresses will not be a low-cost operator, will connect the airline's Madrid hub with those European cities where travellers need to fly to Spain to catch a long-haul flight. The carrier, which is strong in the Europe-to-Latin America market, plans to focus on more profitable long-distance operations.

"Given the difference in the performance and competitiveness of Iberia's long-haul business in contrast to the short- and medium-haul routes, the company is posing two well defined strategies that allow it to be larger while simultaneously cutting losses," Iberia said. The two-pronged approach involved growth in the carrier's long-haul routes and an attendant reduction in seats on short-and medium-haul schedules. The short-haul cuts will come on top of cutbacks already under way.


User currently offlineBuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2899 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 19003 times:

Quoting OP3000 (Reply 5):
Iberia will replace its domestic and European programme with a new and as yet unnamed airline, operating as a wholly owned subsidiary. From 2011, the new airline, which the company stresses will not be a low-cost operator, will connect the airline's Madrid hub with those European cities where travellers need to fly to Spain to catch a long-haul flight.

But they already have Air Nostrum?!



I scratch my head, therefore I am.
User currently offlinethegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 18931 times:

Good smart move.....they had a reality check and are positioning themselves for a better future...


Our Returning Champion
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8322 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 18838 times:

It would make sense for IB to shift it's domestic p2p short haul business to high-speed rail and maintain only a token short haul network to operate in sync with their long-haul banks at their hub.

User currently onlineAeolus From Mexico, joined Aug 2007, 374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 17620 times:

It mentions as another previous thread that the A343 are being substituted by A346s!
Interesting.

Quoting JER757 (Reply 3):
It mentions in the article that it will take over BA's shorthaul. Just imagine the field day Unite are going to have over that!

I complain. But will the aircraft have IB or BA titles with the "Operated by" stickers (à la NW/DL?)

I wish the BA brand stays and IB disappears, I'm not very keen on IB....

Go on BA! Live for ever! (stupid strike...)

-Aeolus



Flying under the clouds above!
User currently offlinedme From Portugal, joined Mar 2004, 110 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 17004 times:

You should be aware that in a few years time the map of High Speed Rail in Spain will cover nearly the entire country. Even from the most distant place in Spain, only three hours will be enough to reach Madrid; short-haul will be reduced significantly unless you connect with long-distance flights or you are going to another country in Europe.

From Alicante, where I am living now, to go to Madrid by train will be something like 1.5h or so (400kms), and I would prefer the train rather tha n going by plane; if I am going to London, Paris, Stockholm, etc., I prefer to take Ryanair/Easyjet, same service as Iberia but much cheaper.
Dme.


User currently offlineBA174 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 758 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 16765 times:

Quoting JER757 (Reply 3):
It mentions in the article that it will take over BA's shorthaul. Just imagine the field day Unite are going to have over that!

I think BA wanted a new LCC subsidiary for the LGW short-haul but I don't know if WW still wants it.


User currently offlineOffloaded From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 16664 times:

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 6):
But they already have Air Nostrum?!

I'm not sure they have the right size a/c for such ops.

From what I knew of the GB Airways operation, they would have fitted the bill perfectly. Too bad EZY bought them.

Thinking a bit differently, would there ever be a day when EZY would interline pax with BA / IB. (AB / WS come to mind??)



To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2178 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 16617 times:

Quoting dme (Reply 10):
You should be aware that in a few years time the map of High Speed Rail in Spain will cover nearly the entire country. Even from the most distant place in Spain, only three hours will be enough to reach Madrid; short-haul will be reduced significantly unless you connect with long-distance flights or you are going to another country in Europe.

From Alicante, where I am living now, to go to Madrid by train will be something like 1.5h or so (400kms), and I would prefer the train rather than going by plane; if I am going to London, Paris, Stockholm, etc., I prefer to take Ryanair/Easyjet, same service as Iberia but much cheaper.

Still, that will not replace the need for connections to long-haul routes in MAD, which are essential if IB wants to remain a player in that field.
But the A320 aircraft can then be taken over by smaller (and much cooler imo) ERJ175/190 aircraft when they are due for retirement.
On that note, are there any plans for building a high-speed train station at MAD (airport) à-la CDG? (pardon my ignorance in advance if that's already done!)
Would that make MAD (the largest airport in Europe by size) a white elephant eventually?

Agreed that U2 is same but cheaper, but FR not quite the same as they will drop you off in a trap quite far from your destination, at the end it may involve both extra time and money to get you downtown. That does not apply to MAD but it's the exception rather than the rule.



When I doubt... go running!
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8322 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 16235 times:

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 13):
Still, that will not replace the need for connections to long-haul routes in MAD, which are essential if IB wants to remain a player in that field.

It should for domestic connections at least. There's no reason why you can't tranfer from a plane to a train and vice-versa. It's already done in France and Belgium. Some places even do it with buses. I once bought a ticket LHR-MUC-SZG where the MUC-SZG leg was a bus trip but with a BA flight number.


User currently offlineLondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1491 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 16135 times:

In a way it's similar to what KL, AF and LH have been doing in recent years, ie they have been hiving off more and more of their less important feeder routes to lower cost subsidiares.

Look at the AF services between the UK and CDG as a prime example. AF mainline flies to CDG only out of LHR and MAN. All the other AF flights from the UK regions and LCY are operated by other carriers on behalf of AF.


User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2013 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 15195 times:

Quoting JER757 (Reply 3):
Quoting Summa767 (Reply 2):
What they want is to create a subsidiary that will employ staff on new, more flexible contracts that mean a reduction in operating costs, and a stops its losses on the short haul network.

It mentions in the article that it will take over BA's shorthaul. Just imagine the field day Unite are going to have over that!

If BOAC and BEA hadn't merged in the 70s, what would BEA look like now, with the intense competition on European short haul routes, and it's historical losses?

A shorthaul less BA would be like a modern day BOAC...



it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
User currently offlineUALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2763 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 14231 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 14):
There's no reason why you can't tranfer from a plane to a train and vice-versa.

Currently the reason is that the high-speed train station in Madrid is nowhere near the airport...

[Edited 2010-03-17 09:21:53]


AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/AB6/310/319/320/321/330/340/380
User currently offlinespud757 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 333 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 12514 times:

Avrebbe senso per IB di spostare

Quoting BA174 (Reply 11):
I think BA wanted a new LCC subsidiary for the LGW short-haul

FlyBE (BE) ?


User currently offlineBraybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5692 posts, RR: 32
Reply 19, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 8624 times:

Hopefully they'll now employ friendly cabin crew for their subsidiary.

User currently offlinespeedbird9 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7449 times:

I think BA has built up to much of a Business airline short-haul network to just switch to LCC and I think BA's business customers would drop it would KILL BA's Long haul premium classes which wouldn't be viable because its there largest source of income

So... i doubt it will take over BA's shorthaul ops....... but a new LCC subsidiary for BA from say.... LGW would be viable if it flew to destinations already not served by BA under a LCC business model

no offence to who wrote this it doesn't seem like a reliable source it looks more like blog than a reliable source

Thanks
Speedbird9



Is the customer always right? Michael O'Leary: no the customer is nearly always wrong
User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2084 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6419 times:

So are we going to have Iberia/Aviaco in Spain and BA/BEA in the UK?


Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlineBuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2899 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5968 times:

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 13):
On that note, are there any plans for building a high-speed train station at MAD (airport) à-la CDG?

No, and it was a planning blunder of the nth degree that they didn't let the Madrid-Barcelona line pass through Barajas. A rail link will open soon, but it's a surburban train train going into Madrid (both to Chamartin and Atocha amongst others).



I scratch my head, therefore I am.
User currently offlinevarig md-11 From France, joined Jul 2000, 1594 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5938 times:

What will Click / Vueling will become?
Isn't Click already an IB low cost subsidiary having merged with Vueling?
So why create something "new" while Vueling and its fleet of A320 is already working?



AF TW AA NW DL UA CO BA U2 TP UX LH SK AZ MP KL SN VY HV LS SS TK SQ PC RG IW SE
User currently offlineUALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2763 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5804 times:

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 19):
Hopefully they'll now employ friendly cabin crew for their subsidiary.

Don't bet on it...



AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/AB6/310/319/320/321/330/340/380
25 SB : The Australians (and Singaporeans to a certain extent) have already figured this out with Jetstar and Silk Air. Granted Qantas still flies short haul,
26 BA174 : Avrebbe senso per IB di spostare Could not agree more. BA dropping short-haul would also be a PR nightmare in the UK as the press have already got it
27 Kappel : That was the first thing that crossed my mind. They already have Clickair. IIRC they operate from several bases in Spain, including BCN and MAD. Why
28 lightsaber : Nightmare? Yes. But do they have a choice? Lightsaber
29 Post contains links OP3000 : Clickair merged with Vueling, and IB owns 46% percent of Vueling as it stands. They may even buy the totality of Vueling: http://www.bloomberg.com/ap
30 AIR MALTA : BA would have to do something about its LGW operation. EZY is now the number one airline there and I can not see BA completely abandoning LGW and shri
31 OP3000 : It actually does just by the numbers. 17 destinations in Latin America & Caribbean, 5 in USA, and 2 longhaul in Africa (JNB, SSG). Its not as bal
32 sandyb123 : I totally see the logic of this and it fits the current airline model: Long Haul / Medium Haul BA - From LHR IB - From MAD Long Haul, premium cabins,
33 UALWN : As far as I know, you cannot.
34 BA174 : Including frequencies thats probably about 1/4 of BAs long-haul network so its harldy a "monster" network. IB are closer to EI in numbers of long-hau
35 Post contains links r2rho : We discussed this some time ago, and there seem to be the same misunderstandings as there were back then: Iberia To Start A New Lowcost Airline (by Rm
36 DocLightning : Yes, but AVE goes to Puerta de Atocha. To get from there to Barajas takes two subway lines. It's a real pity that there's no single-seat ride from At
37 r2rho : Which is enough of an inconvenience to exclude AVE-airplane transfers as a viable and competitive option, except for those people who have no alterna
38 Talaier : Obviously BA is much bigger than IB that goes without saying. However there are two important factors that come into the equation and make the merger
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