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Is The A340 Production Almost "Dead"?  
User currently offlinejayeshrulz From India, joined Apr 2007, 1027 posts, RR: 2
Posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 23452 times:

With the last A346 to be delivered to VS and IB, is Airbus stopping the production of the A340's?
If not, which airline do we see ordering the A340?I see many getting rid of theirs.
Is there a future of A340?

tks!


Keep flying, because the sky is no limit!
68 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 23435 times:

A340 production is tied to the A330 so it will still be available for some time.

There might be a few A346 follow up orders but apart from that i'd say it's essentially the end sadly.


User currently offlinemgmacius From Poland, joined Jun 2007, 68 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 23415 times:

There is no future for this plane. It's niche product for years now and there is no demand for such a weird idea now - it was great, when ETOPS was a problem, but now it's just cheaper to buy A330 or T7 (maybe not the selling price, but TCO wise).


734, 735, 738, 744, 763, 772, 773, A319, A320, A380, Dash8, E170, Saab340A
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8502 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 23365 times:

Well, it did have a great run, selling for almost 20 years now.

User currently offlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2694 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 23352 times:

Eventually, they will sell some additional VIP / Government jets. According to that list there are still two A345 on order for the State of Kuwait (sn 1091 and 1102): http://www.planespotters.net/Production_List/Airbus/A340/index.php?p=4

User currently offlineSolarFlyer22 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Nov 2009, 987 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 23175 times:

I think you'll see a few orders trickle in for several years but its run is mostly complete. Sadly the resale value of the used planes has fallen a bit too but these are still excellent planes. Compared to a 747-400, they are still cheaper to operate and there are times and places where 4 engines have a lot of value. I think in another post we did confirm that it was a profitable offering in the end which is more than we can say for other products. They needed about 180 planes to break even and sold well more than that. That's all anyone can ask for. I would imagine the A346 model still has a good CASM because it's extended so much.

User currently offlinejayeshrulz From India, joined Apr 2007, 1027 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 22344 times:

So they only planes offered are A332/A333
A32x and A380.

Why did Airbus make the A340 comparing to 743 and MD-11?
Till then, there was the 777 available?

Secondly how many A345/6 have been sold?
Do they have life as a Cargo?



Keep flying, because the sky is no limit!
User currently offlinemcg From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 792 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 22226 times:

Quoting SolarFlyer22 (Reply 5):
there are times and places where 4 engines have a lot of value.

Where? I'm not trying to argue here, I'm curious where four engines have value.


User currently offlineSpeedbird741 From Portugal, joined Aug 2008, 654 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 22154 times:

Quoting mcg (Reply 7):
Where? I'm not trying to argue here, I'm curious where four engines have value.

Hot and high airports like JNB, UIO, MAD etc.....that's the reason why SA and IB love their 340s !



Speedbird741



Boa noite Faro, Air Portugal 257 climbing flight level 340
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24868 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 22155 times:

Quoting mcg (Reply 7):
Quoting SolarFlyer22 (Reply 5):
there are times and places where 4 engines have a lot of value.

Where? I'm not trying to argue here, I'm curious where four engines have value.

Longhaul routes from hot-and-high airports, also airports with terrain clearance issues where a 4-engine aircraft that loses an engine on takeoff still has 75% of it's thrust while a twin has only 50%. Also some routes over very high terrain (e.g. the Himalayas) where a twin at heavy weights that loses an engine may not be able to maintain a high-enough altitude to clear the mountains.


User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2072 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 22059 times:

It wouldn't surprise me over the next few years if SA, IB and LH were to acquire A346s from airlines looking to dispose of the type, these being three of the largest operators of the type. VS on the other hand seems to have fallen out of love with the type, despite still being a big operator.

The A345s will likely end up in Middle Eastern hands as VIP transports, a bit like a few 747SPs did over the years.



Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently onlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 11, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 22018 times:

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 10):
It wouldn't surprise me over the next few years if SA, IB and LH were to acquire A346s from airlines looking to dispose of the type, these being three of the largest operators of the type. VS on the other hand seems to have fallen out of love with the type, despite still being a big operator.

The A345s will likely end up in Middle Eastern hands as VIP transports, a bit like a few 747SPs did over the years.

Exactly. This is similar to the 757, where now it's a matter of acquiring them on the used market or moving them from other routes for specific purposes, like TATL VIP services or Hawaii flights.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5314 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 21960 times:

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 10):
It wouldn't surprise me over the next few years if SA, IB and LH were to acquire A346s from airlines looking to dispose of the type, these being three of the largest operators of the type. VS on the other hand seems to have fallen out of love with the type, despite still being a big operator

SA, I would expect to eventually acquire more A340s (although A345 might be more useful to them than further A346).

IB has all the A340s it needs for its most challenging routes, and A330s would seem to be a better growth strategy.

I have a very hard time picturing LH purchasing anyone's used aircraft for passenger service, and I think they will eventually be a large A350 operator, so that will probably be the next A340-sized aircraft they will order.


User currently offlinePolymerPlane From United States of America, joined May 2006, 991 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 21928 times:

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 1):
A340 production is tied to the A330 so it will still be available for some time.

It is built with similar tooling, but the components are really different now, especially with the A340NG. It might be tied in respect of common assembly line, but it is another when considering the components. There aren't many commonality left between the NG and 330



One day there will be 100% polymer plane
User currently offlineSpeedbird741 From Portugal, joined Aug 2008, 654 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 21688 times:

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 12):
SA, I would expect to eventually acquire more A340s (although A345 might be more useful to them than further A346).




What I would most like for SA to do is just go for the 748...still today I find it hard to believe they no longer fly 74s, loved flying on those birds....but that's a long shot so i'll just say I think the 345 would be a great addition for them, although I think if it happens it should be a very limited number of them. Just my 2 cents !


Speedbird741



Boa noite Faro, Air Portugal 257 climbing flight level 340
User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 21115 times:

I think until the intro of the 748I/F, the A345/6 were the best looking quads ever built IMO. Especially the A345.    It just seems so well proportioned.
What a graceful bird!



We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
User currently offlinealwaysontherun From Netherlands Antilles, joined Jan 2010, 464 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 20925 times:

Quoting jayeshrulz (Reply 6):
So they only planes offered are A332/A333
A32x and A380.

From A318 to A380 with the A350 being developed is a pretty broad market, isn´t it?

### "I am always on the Run"###



"Failure is not an option, it comes standard in any Windows product" - an anonymous MAC owner.
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6050 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 20621 times:

Quoting Speedbird741 (Reply 8):

Hot and high airports like JNB, UIO, MAD etc.....that's the reason why SA and IB love their 340s !

Also routes over the south pacific....like SQL-AKL where loads are a bit thinner but etops is a real issue



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently onlineba319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8506 posts, RR: 55
Reply 18, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 20498 times:
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Quoting EA772LR (Reply 15):
the A345/6 were the best looking quads ever built IMO. Especially the A345. It just seems so well proportioned.

- I agree, out of the entire A340 series, the 345 looks the best, as you say, its well proportioned.



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently onlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 19, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 20346 times:

Not just quads, the A345 is/was one of the best looking passenger planes ever built, period. Perfectly proportioned length to wingspan, engine size to fuse diameter, etc.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30584 posts, RR: 84
Reply 20, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 20346 times:
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Quoting EA772LR (Reply 15):
I think until the intro of the 748I/F, the A345/6 were the best looking quads ever built IMO.
Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 18):
I agree, out of the entire A340 series, the 345 looks the best, as you say, its well proportioned.

  

I think the A340-600 suffers a bit from being so long, but the A340-300 and especially the A340-500 are "just right".

And I still think the two extra engines make all the difference in balancing out the wings. The A330-200 and, especially, A330-300 just look kind of "funny" with the long fuselages, long wings and little tiny engines. Maybe if they had Trent 500s is would balance them out better, as the larger engines of the 777/787/A350XWB balance out those designs to my eyes.


User currently offlineliedetectors From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 20106 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 9):
Longhaul routes from hot-and-high airports, also airports with terrain clearance issues where a 4-engine aircraft that loses an engine on takeoff still has 75% of it's thrust while a twin has only 50%. Also some routes over very high terrain (e.g. the Himalayas) where a twin at heavy weights that loses an engine may not be able to maintain a high-enough altitude to clear the mountains.

I think you are wrong on this point. All aircraft must meet minimum single engine-out climb requirements. For a 777, that means it must climb on 1 engine; for an A-340, that means it must be able to climb on 3 engines. That means that to maintain a regulation-specified climb rate with all engines operating, a twin has 200% the required power available to it, while a quad has only 133%. Go watch quads and twins departing an airport - you will see the quads climbing much more slowly. That being said, I can still understand the desire to be above the Himalayas on 3 engines instead of 1.



If it was said by us, then it must be true.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24868 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 19926 times:

Quoting liedetectors (Reply 21):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 9):
Longhaul routes from hot-and-high airports, also airports with terrain clearance issues where a 4-engine aircraft that loses an engine on takeoff still has 75% of it's thrust while a twin has only 50%. Also some routes over very high terrain (e.g. the Himalayas) where a twin at heavy weights that loses an engine may not be able to maintain a high-enough altitude to clear the mountains.

I think you are wrong on this point. All aircraft must meet minimum single engine-out climb requirements. For a 777, that means it must climb on 1 engine; for an A-340, that means it must be able to climb on 3 engines.

Yes, twins have to be able to take off and climb on one engine, but I have seen many comments that quads are more capable at airports where there is high terrain near the airport since quads with one engine out often have a higher climb rate than a twin with one engine out. One example is SXM (St. Maarten). There are also a few in South America.


User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 19471 times:

Quoting liedetectors (Reply 21):
while a quad has only 133%.


Not quite, the minimum it can legally have is 133% to be certified. Most, particularly the A345/6 and 744 will have a lot more excess but the A343 is quite low.

I reckon the A345/6 could crawl out at a 340t TOW even if it lost 2 engines.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 20):
I think the A340-600 suffers a bit from being so long

The A346 doesn't photo well but it does look better in the flesh.

The A345 is absolutely beautiful, it's a shame however, it sucks economically. Why do the prettiest girls have no personality.  Sad

[Edited 2010-03-17 15:39:39]

User currently offlineADent From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1359 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 19260 times:

liedectors, you are correct. In normal ops the twin should have an advantage over a quad (all other factors being equal).

But takeoffs and flights are planned with an engine out at V1. So if a single engine 772ER can't clear terrain, the plane can not legally fly.


25 ikramerica : But that also depends on the performance of the plane anyway. It's not just about engines, but about the wings and about the emergency climb performa
26 Post contains images epa001 : To me, even the B748 does not come close when it comes to the beauty of the A345. Maybe in 2050 or so there will be an airliner which can rival it, b
27 Post contains images bohica : The A345/6 remind me of the DC8-70 series in a good way. The 345 is well proportioned like the DC8-72 and the 346 is long like the DC8-71/73.
28 dw747400 : It is important to remember that some airports require performance in excess of what the certifying agency requires. In order to meet the climb perfo
29 YULWinterSkies : Again, not trying to argue either, but then what's the reason why LH loves theirs? -or seems to, at least-
30 vikkyvik : If you keep everything else equal (i.e. MTOW, payload, etc.), then yes, a quad will have better engine-out climb performance than a twin. Obviously,
31 Post contains links United787 : Agreed, beautiful! According to Airbus the following are still on order: A340-500 VIP - 3 Kingfisher - 2 A340-600 Iberia - 2 http://www.airbus.com/fi
32 SolarFlyer22 : Exactly right. I would imagine there are a small number of routes left where ETOPS is an issue as well. Its not that you couldn't do it with a twin b
33 AZA330 : I agree with all those who expressed how gracious the A340 looks, especially the A340-500! Does the fact that Airbus soon will not have any more order
34 Speedbird741 : The 345 is indeed a very nice looking aircraft. But sincerely, the A346 looks AMAZING in every sense of the word. Especialy in the EY livery ! One of
35 timpdx : Speedbird, the EY bird is also very nice on the inside, too. (and quiet) I have recently had the pleasure of flying one in the last few months. Its ju
36 dlphoenix : When the A343 was introduced the only twin of a similar size that was available at the time (i.e. the A333) was capable of serving A markets only. Wh
37 jayeshrulz : But the question is, why did Airbus make a plane which competed with the classics of Boeing 747-200/300 and is it really effective with the 747? If so
38 Burkhard : The first part - if based on the A300 body, the A340 is the longest possible aircraft. And there were many MD11/742 to be replaced. On going against
39 corernagh14 : Speedbird, the EY bird is also very nice on the inside, too. Having flown one in the last few months. Just so well proportioned, great livery and grea
40 Post contains images AirbusA6 : I think it's more that beautiful girls tend to be expensive to keep, the 77W is the sensible slightly dumpy girl that makes a much better wife Unless
41 parapente : The 345/6 may not have sold in the numbers hoped for -but it got Airbus into the "heavy" market and the modification costs were probably covered by th
42 cv990Coronado : ETOPS changes certainly hurt the A340 market. What would be the effect on these regulations and the 340/748 market of a crash where we have a 777 or 3
43 zeke : The fuselage share a lot of commonality, it is really the inner wings and landing gear which is very different on the 340NGs to the A330s. On the avi
44 Stitch : The 777. If Boeing had never launched the 777, the A340 would have done better because it the A340-300 was the better plane than the MD-11 and the A3
45 dlphoenix : What would have made the GTF such a game changer? Can you please elaborate? I am not challenging the statement, just trying to learn, DLP
46 RJ111 : Simple really, a gear between the turbine and the fan would allow both to spin at optimal speeds for extraction and application of energy, instead of
47 zeke : The Superfan for the A340 was a V2500 engine with a new fan driven by a 3:1 gearbox. It was to offer 15% lower fuel burn over the V2500 on the A320.
48 r2rho : So this means there remain only 3 A345's to be assembled on the FAL, 1 VIP and 2 ex-IT (when/if a new buyer for them is found). Despite commonality,
49 corernagh14 : For clarity the 2 x ex IT aircraft are already fully assembled and in storage ready for "rework" for new customers - they will be sold by Airbus - ju
50 RJ111 : This so called upgrade is getting rather over hyped on here. It's certainly never going to close the disparity in hot and high performance. That mark
51 jayeshrulz : So will that A340 be every converted into cargo? Does it have a fate like MD-11? Well we see a pax to Cargo conversion of the A340?
52 corernagh14 : SA decided last year (see their latest accounts) not to order any additional A340 -500/600 aircraft instead opting for A330 aircraft for delivery in
53 Stitch : We'll probably see some A340-300 passenger to freighter conversions, but the availability of passenger to freighter conversion kits for the A330 and
54 seabosdca : I'm sure SA will not order any brand new A340, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them lease a few used frames (and such has been rumored here and th
55 747400sp : I feel a simular way. The A345/6 looks like a hybid of DC-8-70 serise and A300 airbus.
56 Post contains images trystero : Looks like we are burriyng this guys alive. Definetly the quads market is declining, but this is not the best of times to foresee de coming times. Any
57 jayeshrulz : Haha, yeah, but the future looks uncertain. Though they got a breakthrough in their sales, i wish there were more of these aircrafts. Well, they were
58 Post contains links Burkhard : I take from BA Are At A Seat Mile Cost Disadvantage. (by BOE773 May 6 2007 in Civil Aviation) According to Wolfgang Mayrhuber from LH, a somewhat inde
59 Post contains images EA772LR : Then I bet the 77W would exceed all of those above, including the A380. The 77W burns significantly less than the A346 to haul as many or more passen
60 RJ111 : I reckon a safe rule of thumb... A380 burns about 15%-20% less per seat than the 77W A346 burns 10% more per seat than the 77W 748I is a paper airplan
61 Post contains images United787 : If they can both be filled. Well the 748F is flying and the 748i is already in production so it is beyond a paper airplane...
62 RJ111 : Incorrect My mistake, amended. The point is the same and you know full well. I'm not sure why you bothered with that little attack tbh.
63 corernagh14 : I note that MSN 1079 was delivered to Iberia Airlines on 26 March 2010 and is the subject of a 12 year finance lease for an aircraft value of $120m .
64 EA772LR : Are all A346s delivered built to the 346X standard with the greater range range and higher MTOW?
65 corernagh14 : Yes I believe so - the final Iberia aircraft (MSN1122) for delivery in late June 2010 is too.
66 jayeshrulz : But isn't it already constructed?I think there were 2 A346( VS and IB) i guess.
67 Anshuk : I doubt. One big drawback is the downward slope of the aircraft, which makes loading and unloading difficult and will require additional, unique grou
68 corernagh14 : There are no A340 600 orders outstanding for VS. VS cancelled the 6 on order in late December 2009 (commercial deal to replace with 6 x A330 and 4 vi
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