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QF Flights To Narita.  
User currently offlineAirNiugini From Australia, joined Mar 2010, 168 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5134 times:

I have a question.

Qantas are upgrading their SYD - NRT flights from daily 333 to a 744 every day apart from Wednesday where the flight will be operated by a 332. Given that the 332 arrives at NRT at 0610 and doesnt fly back until 2000, does the crew that operate the 332 to NRT fly the return flight back to SYD at 2000 that same day? (That would be almost a 14 hour break). Or would they operate a JQ 332 back to Australia another day? I don't suppose the crew would be lucky enough to have a week layover in Tokyo would they?   

Also, does QF have maintenance done on these aircraft while in Tokyo. Compared to other Asian flights, the SYD - NRT service seems to have the aircraft on the ground for a good while.

Cheers

Matt

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8091 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4977 times:
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Quoting AirNiugini (Thread starter):
Also, does QF have maintenance done on these aircraft while in Tokyo. Compared to other Asian flights, the SYD - NRT service seems to have the aircraft on the ground for a good while.

Most other Asian point, Bangkok, Singapore, Hong Kong and KL have multiple daily flights to Sydney & Melbourne so their planes are only on the ground in Australia a few hours. A overnight south comes back north as a day flight.


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4773 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4920 times:

Quoting AirNiugini (Thread starter):
Given that the 332 arrives at NRT at 0610 and doesnt fly back until 2000, does the crew that operate the 332 to NRT fly the return flight back to SYD at 2000 that same day? (That would be almost a 14 hour break). Or would they operate a JQ 332 back to Australia another day? I don't suppose the crew would be lucky enough to have a week layover in Tokyo would they?

No they wouldn't come back that same day, however they would probably operate the 763 flight down to PER and maybe 2 or 3 would passenger back (or passenger up).... paxing isn't very common for a flight like that though so they would probably join a 744 crew (meaning a few 744 crew then move to the A332 flight). In any case likely they would get probably 3 nights in NRT.



54 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlinetayser From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 1123 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4714 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 1):
and KL

QF mainline doesn't fly to KUL, it's codeshared through SIN with MH/3K


User currently offlineditzyboy From Australia, joined Feb 2008, 700 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4545 times:

Quoting AirNiugini (Thread starter):
does the crew that operate the 332 to NRT fly the return flight back to SYD at 2000 that same day?

The cabin crew will pick up other flights ex-NRT. Cabin crew no longer stay as a group on the same pattern, as was generally the case over the years. Crew will not operate out on the same day. Pilots will probably pax in or out of NRT, not necessarily to or from Australia.

Quoting AirNiugini (Thread starter):
Or would they operate a JQ 332 back to Australia another day?

Jetstar operations are crewed by Jetstar crew. There is no cross crewing. Although Jetstar 332s can be operated by mainline crews as a Qantas flight, if required.

Quoting AirNiugini (Thread starter):
Compared to other Asian flights, the SYD - NRT service seems to have the aircraft on the ground for a good while.

This is to increase the appeal of the flight to the Japanese market. The Japanese have very few holidays. The timing of the flight means they can work during the day and then head out to NRT to fly overnight to Australia, where their tour starts on arrival. They can tour all day in Australia on the last day of their trip and then fly overnight back home to start work the same day. It sounds crazy but this was mentioned by the Japan-based sales manager for Qantas at an employee event.


User currently offlineditzyboy From Australia, joined Feb 2008, 700 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4535 times:

Quoting tayser (Reply 3):
QF mainline doesn't fly to KUL, it's codeshared through SIN with MH/3K

Qantas codeshares with neither. Interline yes, codeshare no.


User currently offlinejasewgtn From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 821 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4522 times:

Quoting AirNiugini (Thread starter):
does the crew that operate the 332 to NRT fly the return flight back to SYD at 2000 that same day? (

I have a mate based out of AKL of QF/Jetconnect Long Haul Staff

His itineraries always have a mix of 763/744/330 flights on them, so the staff that operate the 332 up, will staff the 744 back to SYD or the 763 to PER.

The only flights he doesn't seem to work on a 738/380


User currently offlineAirNiugini From Australia, joined Mar 2010, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4368 times:

Quoting ditzyboy (Reply 4):
The cabin crew will pick up other flights ex-NRT. Cabin crew no longer stay as a group on the same pattern, as was generally the case over the years. Crew will not operate out on the same day. Pilots will probably pax in or out of NRT, not necessarily to or from Australia.

Oh yeah I didn't think about that. So they could just fly to Hong Kong or Shanghai I guess.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 2):
No they wouldn't come back that same day, however they would probably operate the 763 flight down to PER and maybe 2 or 3 would passenger back (or passenger up).... paxing isn't very common for a flight like that though so they would probably join a 744 crew (meaning a few 744 crew then move to the A332 flight). In any case likely they would get probably 3 nights in NRT.

Would the pilots be trained across, say the 744 and 763 at all for more flexibility?

and 3 nights in Narita? is that the normal "downtime" for crew that operate a flight from AUS to Asia?

Quoting ditzyboy (Reply 4):
This is to increase the appeal of the flight to the Japanese market. The Japanese have very few holidays. The timing of the flight means they can work during the day and then head out to NRT to fly overnight to Australia, where their tour starts on arrival. They can tour all day in Australia on the last day of their trip and then fly overnight back home to start work the same day. It sounds crazy but this was mentioned by the Japan-based sales manager for Qantas at an employee event.

That makes perfect sense. Does QF aircraft get any work done whilst in NRT?


User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2634 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4239 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 2):
In any case likely they would get probably 3 nights in NRT.

Do they stay out by the airport or are they shipped into the city? For that length of time, you'd hope the airline would put you up in the city, though I imagine it'd be quite an expense for the airline.


User currently onlinesmi0006 From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 1488 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4222 times:

Quoting AirNiugini (Reply 7):
and 3 nights in Narita? is that the normal "downtime" for crew that operate a flight from AUS to Asia?

No not really generally minimum rest is offered, 18 Hours I think for Long-Haul not sure about Short-haul operating 'regional asian routes'. It might change due to schedule or if they were operating back or up to either FRA or LHR though. I think Australian based crews are offered on daily (or weekly) not sure LHR trip, so its just not the LHR crew that do them.


User currently offlineAirNiugini From Australia, joined Mar 2010, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4070 times:

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 9):
No not really generally minimum rest is offered, 18 Hours I think for Long-Haul

They must jump on a JAL flight to Hong Kong or maybe a JQ flight back to AUS then.


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4773 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3992 times:

Quoting AirNiugini (Reply 7):
Would the pilots be trained across, say the 744 and 763 at all for more flexibility?

and 3 nights in Narita? is that the normal "downtime" for crew that operate a flight from AUS to Asia?

No pilots are only trained on one type (well A330 can do both -200 and -300).
That is not a normal downtime... normal downtime in NRT is 24-72 hours with those longer slips being pretty rare.

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 8):
Do they stay out by the airport or are they shipped into the city? For that length of time, you'd hope the airline would put you up in the city, though I imagine it'd be quite an expense for the airline.

Most airline crew for the various airlines stay in the town of NRT (about 15 mins drive from the airport) NRT is quite far from Downtown Tokyo.



54 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently onlinesmi0006 From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 1488 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3891 times:

Quoting AirNiugini (Reply 10):
They must jump on a JAL flight to Hong Kong or maybe a JQ flight back to AUS then

Sorry I was answering the question about general length of layovers in Asia after Aus flights, 18hrs is minimum in most ports for Long-Haul cabin crew (tech I would imaign ewould be the same), but they could be longer depending in the schedule. I would imagine though that the cabin crew for the SYD-NRT A330 service would wither join another crew or operte back to a different Australian port same with the tech crew.


User currently offlinecarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2910 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3798 times:

Aircrafts on the SYD & PER typically get towed to the remote ramps by the JL hangers where they just park during the stay in NRT. JL can easily perform maintenance on 747 & 763 types, if needed.

User currently offlineSQ_EK_freak From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2000, 1627 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 month 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3100 times:

Quoting AirNiugini (Reply 7):

and 3 nights in Narita? is that the normal "downtime" for crew that operate a flight from AUS to Asia?

Wow that'd be really ridiculous, a 3 night layover for a flight of 10-12 hours!? Our layovers for our US flights which range anywhere between 12-16:30 hours flight time are no longer 24-32 hours!!



Keep Discovering
User currently offlinethegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 month 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2700 times:

This thread asks a good question. But as others have more or less said, there is no issue for cabin crew. All 744 cabin crew can also work an A330. Not true the other way around, as short haul cabin crew can work an A330 but not a 744. The only way an issue could come in would be if a short haul cabin crew worked the A330 flight, which would be stupid.

The issue comes about for the pilots. I was going to say that they might operate back to another Oz port, but I see that's not possible. One would presume that they have thought about this and their plans aren't visible to us. There was talk on a.net of the PER-NRT flight going A330 to improve the cabin product. Whether this was a suggestion or a rumour, I can't remember. I know of no time that QF would intentionally require their crew to use a non QF flight such as NRT-HKG, but it's not impossible. I can't imagine them operating a JQ flight though. That would go against the whole reason for forming JQ, union busting. (Ok, branding did come into it too).

Quoting jasewgtn (Reply 6):
His itineraries always have a mix of 763/744/330 flights on them, so the staff that operate the 332 up, will staff the 744 back to SYD or the 763 to PER.

The only flights he doesn't seem to work on a 738/380

A380 crew are a different pool to both short and long haul. Besides, there would be no reason to have AKL based cabin crew on an A380, which will probably never go to AKL for QF. Long haul are really a "no 737/A380" crew type, and short haul are really "no 747/A380". All three types come under different awards and have different rules and pay scales. I think the AKL/LHR/BKK bases would all have different rules too, being based in different juristictions.

EDIT: I would ask, why not just fly the SYD-NRT with the 744 every day? Is it to allow for maintenance requirements or something? I'm sure managing these issues would cost more than the extra between the 744 & A332 trip costs. Then you have the possibly forgone revenue.

[Edited 2010-03-18 18:51:43]

User currently offlineditzyboy From Australia, joined Feb 2008, 700 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 month 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2665 times:

Quoting thegeek (Reply 15):
I know of no time that QF would intentionally require their crew to use a non QF flight such as NRT-HKG

Happens with some regularity. Until recently it was quite common for A330 pilots to pax between SIN and CGK on SQ, for example. Cabin crew have been blocked (planned roster) to pax between HKG, PVG and PEK on occasion in recent times.

Quoting thegeek (Reply 15):
I think the AKL/LHR/BKK bases would all have different rules too, being based in different juristictions.

BKK base is no more  


User currently offlinethegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 month 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2584 times:

Quoting ditzyboy (Reply 16):
BKK base is no more

Presume the TYO base lives on though! Thanks for the update.

Quoting ditzyboy (Reply 16):
Cabin crew have been blocked (planned roster) to pax between HKG, PVG and PEK on occasion

Oh, Ok. Never came across it when I had access to this info. Pretty surprised it would be done for cabin crew, but pilots are more trouble.

I did think after I posted that I do recall thinking there was little attention in QF to avoiding these sorts of costs. Look at how much trouble it was to crew the double daily SIN-PER A330s when there were only 2x weekly (or near to that) A330 transcon flights. Not so bad now, presumably.


User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5080 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 month 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2370 times:

Well I guess Pilots could pax on CX or JL between NRT/HKG to operate flights. Better than laying them over for 6 nights.

User currently offlinetim From Australia, joined Jun 2000, 704 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 month 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2137 times:

Any plans for QF to Get a 332 doing its Perth - Japan flights? 10 hours on the 763 is starting to wear a bit thin. Especially when the shorter PER-SIN and PER-HKG all get nice 330's!

[Edited 2010-03-19 04:12:02]

User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4773 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 month 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2094 times:

Quoting tim (Reply 19):
Any plans for QF to Get a 332 doing its Perth - Japan flights? 10 hours on the 763 is starting to wear a bit thin. Especially when the shorter PER-SIN and PER-HKG all get nice 330's

All comes down to competition and costs...
There is no competition for this flight.
Costs are cheaper using a 763.
Quite simply if it was that big of a deal then people would fly via SYD. It is possible that cost wise this route is not viable as an A330 route so would people prefer a direct flight with an older aircraft or having to fly via SYD but on a newer aircraft...? I think it will change eventually... probably once QF gets more A330 and/or the 787 starts arriving.



54 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineAirNiugini From Australia, joined Mar 2010, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2010 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 20):

All comes down to competition and costs...
There is no competition for this flight.
Costs are cheaper using a 763.
Quite simply if it was that big of a deal then people would fly via SYD. It is possible that cost wise this route is not viable as an A330 route so would people prefer a direct flight with an older aircraft or having to fly via SYD but on a newer aircraft...? I think it will change eventually... probably once QF gets more A330 and/or the 787 starts arriving.

Any news on when QF might upgrade to A330 for flights to Manila and Honolulu too? Im not too sure if there are any other long haul flights that the QF767s still operate on apart from those 3. Might have alot to do with the Business demand for these routes though operating only 767s.


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