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"Bad" Airline Service In The US In The 60s  
User currently offlineJackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 663 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 13126 times:

With the 60s being the Golden Age of air travel, airline service standards were generally far better than we have today. In the US, Continental Airlines and American had reputations for having the best inflight service, however I have learnt on this forum that airlines like United and Northwest had poor reputations for service

What airlines in the 60s were generally considered poor, or you personally had bad experiences on board? And, what WAS poor service at the time? Was it the offhand, arrogant attitude that is seen fairly regularly today, bad food, dirty planes etc?

66 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15444 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (4 years 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 12983 times:

Well, if you read the book Splash of Colors, it seems that Braniff's reputation for service deteriorated during the 1970s, but I don't know about the 1960s.


Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineisitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 24
Reply 2, posted (4 years 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 12888 times:

Lets see.......the 60's at the airport and on the plane....

free bags up to 44 lbs and 66lbs in F
hot meals and lots of em
free five-packs of cigarettes
If you miss-conned or a victim of a xcled flight, they got you on the next thing out of town if it had space, regardless of whose paint was on the plane.
Passengers dressed up as if they were going to wedding.........or funeral.
Stewardess(whats a flight attendent?) were all cute and very nice and smiled at EVERYONE on board.
Ticket and check-in(gate)agents were very willing to help they didn't act like you bothered them as you asked them a Q.

Sorry folks, I kind of enjoyed flying in the 60's. I don't recall any bad service.......bumpy flights, but not bad service.
Things went downhill a few years after de-reg(1978). I dont think it will recover to 60's standards.

And BMI727...BN's problems started I believe in late 79 or early 80 when:
fuel prices went up
AA moved their HQ to Dallas to seriously compete with BN...they went pretty much where BN went in the USA.
The rapid growth and sudden drop in traffic in 1980
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineflyfree727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 645 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 12838 times:

OMG and lets not forget the PRICES passengers paid..
adjusted for inflation, air travel was 4 time more expensive in the 60s than it is today.
Fact.

AA ORD


User currently offlineWNCrew From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1414 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 12757 times:

Oh and no cell-phone, laptops, roller-bags, NO overhead bins actually! It was much easier to give wonderful service as people were all polite and well-dressed and respectful and kind.


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24061 posts, RR: 23
Reply 5, posted (4 years 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 12732 times:

Quoting Jackbr (Thread starter):
however I have learnt on this forum that airlines like United and Northwest had poor reputations for service

I wouldn't agree that UA had a poor service reputation during those years. They were as good as their major competitors like AA and TW on routes where they competed.

NW service was somewhat more basic than many other major US carriers, especially on domestic routes. I expect that was probably at least in part because NW had little competition on many of their routes and thus didn't have to spend as much on inflight service and amenities as carriers like UA/AA/TW operating the major coast-to-coast nonstop routes. All carriers had many monopoly routes and there was no need to waste money on elaborate service, although even on those routes service was generally better than today. But fares were also much higher than today.


User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9952 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (4 years 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 12638 times:

Believe it or not DL had, for years, a reputation as one of the BEST airlines in terms of customer service. It was that way in the 70s and 80s and I've no reason to believe it wasn't the same in the 60s.


"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinespacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3517 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (4 years 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 12639 times:

Quoting flyfree727 (Reply 5):
adjusted for inflation, air travel was 4 time more expensive in the 60s than it is today.
Fact.

Please detail some actual evidence of this. People say this all the time but all the evidence I have (which includes actual ticket stubs from the 1970's) shows that flying today is at most 20-30% cheaper than it was in those days, but with at least that much of a corresponding drop in service level. Now, maybe fares dropped by a factor of four overnight once the decade turned to the 1970's (the decade I have my "souvenirs" from), but I somehow doubt it.

Heck, somebody posted the fare flying the Concorde on Braniff's old route the other day, and even adjusted for inflation it was only slightly more than the current first class fare on any modern airline. And that was on Concorde!

I think it's a myth that fares have dropped all that much. I mean even adjusted for inflation. Sure, there was no such thing as a $39 fare from New York to Miami in the 1960's, but discounting those sorts of deals (which aren't that common even today), it doesn't seem like the cost of most flights was all that much different. And it wouldn't surprise me if those $39 deals are almost entirely responsible for any difference in average fares that does exist between now and then.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineJackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 663 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 12623 times:

Did the Stewardesses of all airlines, from Continental to Northwest, all have the same levels of service training from there airlines, eg consistently excellent service, or were the Stewardesses a factor in the quality of a flight in the 60s?

User currently offlinestratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1647 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (4 years 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 12593 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 9):
Believe it or not DL had, for years, a reputation as one of the BEST airlines in terms of customer service. It was that way in the 70s and 80s and I've no reason to believe it wasn't the same in the 60s.

Gee your not too biased are you? But to be fair when I worked for NW in 1988 I used to fly DL more than NW..Especially when I worked for them in ATL in 1993...DL always treated me and others I worked with fantastic. Always upgraded us. I remember one trip fondly...I was with a girlfriend who was also a non-rev we were flying DL to LGA..We were not able to get F/C which was fine I knew they always tried to get us up there. But what blew my mind was when the f/a came back with a bottle of champagne and apologized for not being able to upgrade us. That blew my mind. Always had a great respect for DL after that. .But a lot changed later in DL's life plus the merger..I don't think it is the same animal anymore.



NWA THE TRUE EVIL EMPIRE
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9952 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (4 years 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 12574 times:

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 12):
Gee your not too biased are you?

I'm just basing that from the facts as I know them. DL was always at the top or near the top in the customer service rankings put out by the CAB. You can look it up if you want......I wouldn't know where to look anymore.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15444 posts, RR: 26
Reply 11, posted (4 years 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 12548 times:

Quoting isitsafenow (Reply 4):
And BMI727...BN's problems started I believe in late 79 or early 80 when:
fuel prices went up

It has been a while since I read the book, but I am thinking that it said that BN's customer service was not stellar even before their expansion and implosion when it really went downhill.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinestratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1647 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (4 years 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 12543 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 13):
I'm just basing that from the facts as I know them. DL was always at the top or near the top in the customer service rankings put out by the CAB. You can look it up if you want......I wouldn't know where to look anymore.

I don't doubt that..If DL treated their customers as well as they treated the non- revs I can see why..I just don't think it is the same company anymore.



NWA THE TRUE EVIL EMPIRE
User currently offlineflyfree727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 645 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 12473 times:

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 10):
Please detail some actual evidence of this

airfarewatchdog.com
the founder frequently compares todays prices to pre-deregulation prices back to the 60's.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 10):
discounting those sorts of deals (which aren't that common even today),

NYC to MIA $83
ORD to MIA $66 (a cab fare from downtown Chicago to ORD avgs. $45-50 on the meter)
JFK to LHR $237 ROUND TRIP

These are fares that are publised today.

AA ORD


User currently offlinemtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2390 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (4 years 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 12447 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

And don't forget that there were a lot more multi-stop flights. Something that I would enjoy, not sure about most pax though.


"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24061 posts, RR: 23
Reply 15, posted (4 years 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 12450 times:

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 10):
Quoting flyfree727 (Reply 5):
adjusted for inflation, air travel was 4 time more expensive in the 60s than it is today.
Fact.

Please detail some actual evidence of this. People say this all the time but all the evidence I have (which includes actual ticket stubs from the 1970's) shows that flying today is at most 20-30% cheaper than it was in those days,

In AA's March 30, 1969 timetable, the one way Y class fare JFK-LAX was $145. And round trip in those days was twice the one way fare, or $290. With inflation, $290 in 1969 is equivalent to about $1,700 today. I'm pretty sure you can find plenty of round trip JFK-LAX fares for much less than 1/4 of that amount today.

One difference is that in 1969 the fares were unrestricted and fully refundable, while today the lowest fares are non-refundable and have plenty of other restrictions.

[Edited 2010-03-19 21:59:23]

User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9952 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (4 years 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 11929 times:

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 12):
..I just don't think it is the same company anymore.

I never said it was. Hopefully, it can be, again.....but I won't hold my breath.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineMats From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 610 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (4 years 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 11750 times:

The first question to ask is, "How does one define 'service?"
Is it punctuality? Comfortable seats? Catering? Handling of irregular operations? Some intangible aspect of hospitality?

Were there delayed flights? Yes. Were there rude staff in some places? Were the seats better? Sometimes.
There were far fewer flights then, so delays were weather and mechanical, not ATC-related.

Fortunately, flying is much safer and much more affordable now. But the industry is plagued by economic and structural problems.

There were several, concurrent factors that led to major changes in service delivery:
1. Deregulation
2. The jumbo jet
3. The first oil crisis

Planes suddenly switched from 150 passengers to 350 passengers.
With economies of scale and greater competition, the airlines could offer "super saver" fares. But the airlines no longer had the security of a government-mandated fare. With tiny margins, they desperately had to cut costs in terms of crew complement, catering, and there was increased pressure to add seats to the airplane.

The 747 changed American culture. Middle class Americans, who wouldn't have been able to travel to Europe, were suddenly able to afford it. These travelers had different needs: affordable fares, and fewer demands for lavish catering or service. The airlines followed the market.


User currently offlineisitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (4 years 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 11650 times:

Quoting Jackbr (Reply 8):

The big boys had their own in-cabin crew training centers. The little guys like Allegheny, Ozark, Lake Central,etc of the 60's got most of their in-flight crews and ticketing(counter) people from airline schools.
One that comes to mind was Atlantic Airline School on Broadway near 35th or 36th in Kansas City,Mo. In 1963, I interviewed to attend there, but changed my mind after the interview, and in the spring 1971, came close to going to work for them as a recruiter.......real close.
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9952 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (4 years 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 11625 times:

Quoting isitsafenow (Reply 18):
One that comes to mind was Atlantic Airline School on Broadway near 35th or 36th in Kansas City,Mo. In 1963, I interviewed to attend there, but changed my mind after the interview, and in the spring 1971, came close to going to work for them as a recruiter.......real close.

I had a guy with me in my original orientation class at DL in '71. He had gone to an airline school in Kansas City (might have been the same one) and I don't think he knew anymore on day one than the rest of us did. DL had their own way of doing things and what was taught wasn't even close to that.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineType-Rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4841 posts, RR: 19
Reply 20, posted (4 years 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 11561 times:

In the 60s & 70s airline training schools were very popular. There was one in MSP called McConnell Airline School. I had dated a girl who attended it. Very few graduates ended up working for an airline, but a lot of them ended up working res for Amtrak. And these schools weren't cheap, either.

You don't see these schools around anymore as much as you used to.

BN in the mid 70's still had great service. Interestingly enough in their 1972 Annual Report there was a paragraph that indicated that they were already concerned about the rising cost of fuel and were analyzing ways to reduce the use of it.

Now UA wasn't all that stellar. When my sister got married and went ORD-HNL for their honeymoon, I called UA and asked them if I could purchase a bottle of champagne and have it served to my sister and her husband during their flight. UA said I could, and charged me $50.00 for the bottle and a nice card to go with it. (1977).
When my sister got home, I asked her if she liked the champagne. She said it was a surprise as they received it when they were deplaning in HNL. The F/A at the front door said "Oh, by the way here is your champagne" and handed her the bottle.
Not what I expected and was told how it was to be served.



Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
User currently offlinePhatty3374 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 11515 times:

Quoting flyfree727 (Reply 13):
JFK to LHR $237 ROUND TRIP

These are fares that are publised today.

Wow. Wait, tell me what airline and what site you got this price from?!?!


User currently offlineMacsog6 From Singapore, joined Jan 2010, 520 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 11495 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Service on PA in 1960's was quite good. But when we got to the US and switched to the domestic carriers, one could tell the difference.

I recall AA being good as was UA. But EA was pretty ordinary and BN did not impress me. I recall on flight on NW and found it to be about average for a domestic flight.



Sixty Plus Years of Flying! "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." - Saint Ex
User currently offlineCitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2368 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (4 years 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 11419 times:

My wife worked for the original Frontier Airlines in the late 1970s. I remember flying ICT to DEN many times in 1979. They had full meal service on a 1:15 flight. Cloth table cloths, cloth napkins, china plates and cups, silverware, glass glasses, and free wine. They did not even have chicken on the menu because they didn't feel that it was appropriate. Entrees were usually steak or lasagna. And they were an all coach airline. The flight attendants were able to serve the entire plane in the 75 minute flight. The same flight today and the flight attendants make you feel guilty to ask for a full can of soda.


Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
User currently offlineCitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2368 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (4 years 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 11304 times:

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 7):
Quoting flyfree727 (Reply 5):
adjusted for inflation, air travel was 4 time more expensive in the 60s than it is today.
Fact.

Please detail some actual evidence of this. People say this all the time but all the evidence I have (which includes actual ticket stubs from the 1970's) shows that flying today is at most 20-30% cheaper than it was in those days, but with at least that much of a corresponding drop in service level. Now, maybe fares dropped by a factor of four overnight once the decade turned to the 1970's (the decade I have my "souvenirs" from), but I somehow doubt it.

Roundtrip fares from Braniff's December 1, 1966 schedule:
Chicago to Dallas $106 Y, $126 F
Houston to NYC $178 Y, $216 F
Denver to NYC $190 Y, $242 F
International:
NYC to Buenos Aires $550 Y, $715 F
NYC to MEX $254 Y, $334 F
Dallas to Acapulco $144 Y, $181 F

TWA's roundtrip fares from July 1, 1964 schedule:
NYC to LAX $290 Y, $320 F
Chicago to SFO $210 Y, $232 F
Chicago to Las Vegas $188 Y, $232 F
NYC to Chicago $86 Y, $104 F
LAX to SFO $46 Y, $56 F
NYC to Las Vegas $266 Y, $320 F
International:
NYC to London $399 Y, $300 Y 30 day excursion, $712 F
LAX to FRA $757 Y, $667 Y 30 day excursion, $1,114 F
Chicago to Paris $515 Y, $416 Y 30 day excursion, $858 F
NYC to Rome $544 Y, $445 Y 30 day excursion, $890 F
NYC to Bombay $1,028 Y, $1,856 F

$1 in 1966 is $6.54 today. Multiply 1966 fares by 6.54 to get today's $$s.
$1 in 1964 is $6.84 today. Multiply 1964 fares by 6.84 to get today's $$s.

http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi

.

[Edited 2010-03-20 12:02:49]

[Edited 2010-03-20 12:27:29]


Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
25 Mainliner : One thing I've always wondered is how badly the aircraft cabins smelled of cigarette smoke in those days. I know they had separate smoking and non-smo
26 flyfree727 : 70s??? Smoking did not disappear in the US until the 90s. 1988: Smoking banned on US Domestic flights under 2 hours 1990: Smoking banned on US Domesti
27 EASTERN747 : I started with Eastern in 1968 at DCA on the ticket counter. I made $510 a month. I bought a new car (Buick) and had a 1 bedroom apt in Alexandra and
28 Post contains images seabosdca : Yes, for me the memories of the horrible, pervasive smoke outweigh all the positives listed above. Planes were nasty. I smelled like an ashtray every
29 MarcoPoloWorld : But on the routes where there were competition, the regulated fares (which dictated what the fares could be) made quality-of-service the one thing th
30 Post contains images jimpop : That's the way it should be. Er, that's the way it should return to. [Edited 2010-03-20 20:47:41]
31 Tango-Bravo : Generally speaking, in the 1960s to mid 1970s, with regard to service reputations of the U.S. major airlines... AA, CO, DL and WA were upper tier BN,
32 Post contains images jhooper : I was barely alive in 1979, much less the 1960s. Sorry, but I don't have a clue
33 Post contains images isitsafenow : JHOOPER...the dinosaurs totally understand. This(A-Net) is how you youngsters get education on the 'good ole days' of the airline industry. safe Also
34 Jackbr : The services airlines offered must have differed fairly substanitally between domestic and international. Looking through old advertisements and broch
35 ItalianFlyer : My flying partners who started with the old NW Orient said that their service model was very lavish to Asia while offering the bare minimum on domesti
36 mayor : DL's only international service, at the time,other than the interchange with Pan Am, was to Caracas and Maracaibo(sp?) in Venezuela and Montego Bay in
37 lightsaber : Yes, the smoke was horrid. As much as I complain about over-crowding at the terminal, I would rather have that than the smoking. The worst was flying
38 dc863 : I'm not aware of any bad reputation for inflight service or baggage handling from any US carrier in the late 60s. Well.............except one. Air Wes
39 CharlieNoble : To me there is something incredibly funny about this...given how chicken has become the royal bird of the health movement (for right or wrong). I rem
40 longhauler : I don't recall smoke ever being an issue except for one flight I flew as a kid. My dad was captain of a DC-8-40, YYZ-ZRH, non-stop, and I joined him f
41 Tango-Bravo : Another thought that comes to mind with regard to the topic at hand is that, during the 1960s, U.S. airlines were still feeling compelled to match the
42 mayor : I think what triggered the decline was the advent of deregulation in '78. Previous to that, airline didn't have to compete on fares as the were more
43 Tango-Bravo : Although until (at least) the mid-1980s, service on U.S. legacy domestic flights was very nearly comparable to what it had been in the 1970s...when s
44 DucatiRacer : What always astounds me whenever I see these old fares listed, is the fact that first class only cost an amount that represented a (sometimes somewha
45 mayor : I just said that deregulation "triggered" it, not that it happened immediately.
46 MasseyBrown : About CO and AA, that's my recollection. Delta was liked more for trying hard and being super polite than for their actual service, which, except for
47 Tango-Bravo : ....to the point where some 32 years later...customers have essentially told airlines that service doesn't matter... cheap fares and frequent flyer m
48 Post contains images kgaiflyer : Two things I remember about Allegheny Airlines' Convair 580 turboprop service are (1) they never arrived or departed on time -- *ever* and (2) they ha
49 Tango-Bravo : Sounds funny...yet so altogether real!... whether it's an airline or a restaurant or... it seems that coffee quality is often the standard by which th
50 mayor : But, you also have a different type of customer now than they did, then. Customers flying today, wouldn't have been able to afford back then, and yet
51 Post contains images MasseyBrown : All I remember about those planes was that they were designed for Japanese ergonomics. The windows were down around my knee caps.
52 ssides : Fares were priced completely differently then. You mentioned in your post that first class fares today can be ten times the discount coach fare -- an
53 Tomassjc : Service on the "Local Service" (regional) carriers varied.... I recall an Airwest DC9 ride LAX-TUS that had a funky smell in the cabin, and the "Stewa
54 PI4EVER : Kgaiflyer/Chester: PI YS11's had a galley with a coffee maker. No ovens so meals were snack boxes or canape trays, but full beverage service including
55 Post contains images mayor : I'm guessing this was on the "Royal Service" flights. The ATL-SLC flight was such a flight. We used to rush upstairs to beat the mechanics to eat the
56 ckfred : My father was a bit of a road warrior back in the 60s. He hated flying Eastern because it was more prone to late flights than the other majors. He use
57 Viscount724 : I remember a NW 747 flight MSP-SEA in F class sometime in late 1970s or early 1980s.It think it was a breakfast flight. It was the first time I'd eve
58 MD11Engineer : i watched a TV programme about Air France back in the 1950s-1960s. Back then Stewardesses had to pass a 2-3 year apprenticeship and had to know e.g.
59 Post contains images kgaiflyer : You know something? That never occured to me. But in these two interior photos showing both a Convair-liner and YS-11, the YS-11's windows are as low
60 Post contains links MD11Engineer : Here is an interesting article (in German) by a former stewardess (I deliberately use vthis term, since the lady refers to herself as one), who worked
61 zippyjet : Yes and no: Regarding aircraft types: On Eastern and Delta especially, they flew multiple types of equipment. Especially on Eastern which was one of
62 Post contains images CharlieNoble : I'm all for more lesbians Seriously though, what you are saying here is right on. My mother-in-law was a stewardess on DC-3s and Connies back in the
63 Post contains images isitsafenow : On the January 1960 incident, the leased Pan AM 707 in Pan Am colors had a cracked windshield. The L-188 filled up and of course, left ILD first. The
64 Tango-Bravo : Do you know which airlines are represented in these interior photos? and whether the Convairliner was a piston or turboprop model? Thank you for post
65 Post contains images wn700driver : Lies! They will try to make you feel guilty. But that doesn't work on everyone,
66 Post contains links and images kgaiflyer : The Convair is Linjeflyg frame SE-CCP that the tribute web site for that extinct airline says is a 440 model Metropolitan [ http://www.linjeflyg.se/f
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