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Is A 767 Considered A "heavy"?  
User currently offlineTrickijedi From United States of America, joined May 2001, 3266 posts, RR: 4
Posted (13 years 7 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4727 times:

What planes are considered "heavies" other than the bovious (747)?


Its better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than be in the air wishing you were on the ground. Fly safe!
65 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMjb69 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 32 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (13 years 7 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4549 times:

trickijedi-

As far as I know the following are "heavies"

747, 767, 777, L-1011, DC-10/MD-11, A330, A340

mjb69


User currently offlineTrickijedi From United States of America, joined May 2001, 3266 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (13 years 7 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4511 times:

Thanks!


Its better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than be in the air wishing you were on the ground. Fly safe!
User currently offlineBoeing nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (13 years 7 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4498 times:

I think the prerequsites for a "heavy" are that the aircraft weighs more than 400,000 lbs.

So that would include DC-8's and A300's as well.


User currently offlineGmonney From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2159 posts, RR: 20
Reply 4, posted (13 years 7 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4478 times:

I guess that would be all of the wide bodies!!

Grant



Drive it like you stole it!
User currently offlineJETPILOT From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3130 posts, RR: 29
Reply 5, posted (13 years 7 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4486 times:

A310 too !! I think the 757/300 makes that list.

DC8 depending on the model has a MGTOW of 355,000 pounds or less.

Defenition of a heavy is an AC capable of having a max gross takeoff weight (MGTOW) of greter then 255,000 lbs.

JET


User currently offlineOverlord From Portugal, joined Jul 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (13 years 7 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4450 times:

Have you ever tried to pick one up? It's pretty heavy.

User currently offlineJean leloup From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 2116 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (13 years 7 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4433 times:

IL-86!!!!
Does it have to be a pax jet? otherwise, add An-124, 225, Il-76, so on...



Next flight.... who knows.
User currently offlineBoeing757fan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (13 years 7 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4428 times:

All 4 engine jets, (excluding the Lockheed Jetstar) are heavies. Military included. The 757-200 from American Trans Air are heavies also. They are about the only airline that adds "heavy" to their call-sign.



User currently offlineTWA717_200 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (13 years 7 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4411 times:

Any 4 engined jet? Does that include the BAe-146/RJ85(100)?  Smile

User currently offlineILOVEA340 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 2100 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (13 years 7 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4404 times:

I'm afraid not.

User currently offlineBoeing757fan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (13 years 7 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4400 times:

uhhh, DUH! Sorry.

User currently offlineBoeing nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (13 years 7 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4395 times:

jetpilot,

That's right. 255,000 lbs +. That fiquire was in my head, for some reason 400 popped up. I recall some 757's having the heavy designation now. Thanks.


User currently offlineTWA717_200 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (13 years 7 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4385 times:

All 757's are heavies. They were classified as such following the loss of (correct me if I'm wrong) a biz jet and a single engine prop. in the 1980's.

User currently offlineILOVEA340 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 2100 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (13 years 7 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4376 times:

Concorde?

User currently offlineTrickijedi From United States of America, joined May 2001, 3266 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (13 years 7 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4375 times:

Oooh, Concorde? Interesting. Is this a heavy? Anybody know? I would think the FAA would make up a new term just for Concordes and call them "speedy" instead of heavy. I can see the ATC transmission on this one.

ATC: United 1451 heavy, be advised traffic at your 11 o clock position, no wait 12 o clock position, oh wait a minute 1 o clock, nope 2 o clock now, a British Airways Concorde at 4,000 feet, no 6000 feet, wait correct that 10, 000 feet, oops sorry he's now at Flight Level 28. Oh well, you missed him.

United 1451: Uhhhh, we're looking for him.

United 1451: We're still looking.

United 1451: Traffic NOT in sight!!!  Nuts



Its better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than be in the air wishing you were on the ground. Fly safe!
User currently offlineTAA_Airbus From Australia, joined Nov 1999, 726 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (13 years 7 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4369 times:

I think you find when aircraft adds heavy to there call sign, it is in reference to there Wake turbulence category, its primarily got nothing to do with weight, but how extreme the wake turbulence is that it produces. However, you will find the heavier the a/c the greater the wake turbulence, however, that is not always true.

Anyway, different countries have different classification, generally speaking, ICAO references heavies as anything >136tonnes, what that is in lbs, I have no idea. Aviation laws in the UK state heavies as anyting heavier than 162 tonnes and the US 115 tonnes. So really, there is no international standard, however as far as Im concerned there should be. Aviation needs to be more in line all around the world.
ICAO, make a stand!


TAA_Airbus



User currently offlineTAA_Airbus From Australia, joined Nov 1999, 726 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (13 years 7 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4355 times:

Concordes are certainly not heavy aircraft, but due to there huge thrust and there wing size and shape, they would create such a huge amount of lift, so vortices would have to be huge coming from a concorde. However, I have seen a picture of a concorde showing the intricies of airflow, I think I counted over 10 pairs of vortices, which would surely mean you would not want to be anywhere near the rear of one. Not to mention jet blast!@

User currently offlineLh526 From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 2381 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (13 years 7 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4351 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

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Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
User currently offlineTAA_Airbus From Australia, joined Nov 1999, 726 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (13 years 7 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4323 times:

Not according to ICAO it isnt.

User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8034 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (13 years 7 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4302 times:

From monitoring the ATC conversations at SFO's tower frequency (120.500 MHz), the following airplanes are considered heavies:

Airbus A330
Airbus A340
Boeing 747
Boeing 767
Boeing 777
Lockheed L1011
McD DC-10
McD MD-11

The Boeing 757-200 is only considered a heavy above 255,000 lb. gross weight, which is the case of the ATA 752's that regularly visit SFO. Otherwise, SFO tower usually gives a wake turbulence warning to any plane near a 752 taking off and landing.

It's definite that the 757-300 was be classed as a heavy when NW and CO start their 753 opeations to SFO starting in 2003.


User currently offlineRw774477 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1077 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (13 years 7 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4275 times:

Concorde has an MGTOW of 408,000 lbs - sounds heavy to me ...

rw774477


User currently offlinePhilB From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (13 years 7 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4268 times:

Weight is not the only deciding factor when the definition "heavy" is given to an aircraft.

Wake turbulence is a major factor as is the ability to climb at given rates.

It is NOT true that all 4 engine jets are heavies, nor is it true that only certain B757s are heavies.

The term "heavy" in ATC calls is now used less as more information is displayed on the controllers' displays.

The following are considered "heavy" by most international authorities:

Concorde
A300
A310
A330
A340
Beluga
AN22
AN70
AN124
AN225
B747
B757
B767
B777
IL86
IL96
L1011
DC8-71
DC8-73
DC10
MD11

Some authorities include B707/DC8/IL62 when operating at maximum weights and require the aircraft to call both the type and "heavy" but again, with modern displays, the info is in front of the controller.

Strangely the TU204 (757 look alike) is classified as "medium".

Sources:

UK CAA
DFS GErmany
Irish ANS



Conco


User currently offlineOO-VEG From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 1125 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (13 years 7 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4256 times:

What about the B707/DC-8?

User currently offlineLMML 14/32 From Malta, joined Jan 2001, 2565 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (13 years 7 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4238 times:

There seems to be some doubt regarding the 757. But, yes. All versions of B757, irrespective of weight are considered heavy. Ask any small jet pilot and he will tell you that he has to wait 2 minutes before taking off behind a rolling 757. I beleive, as someone already mentioned, the 757 was designated as such following an accident.

25 Max Q : The official designation of a 'heavy' aircraft is any aircraft with a gross wt CAPABILITY of over 300,000 lbs for take-off, this most assuredly includ
26 Red Panda : Is 767-200 considered as heavy too? it's not a too big plane after all. How about A321 then? r panda
27 PHLyBoy : I don't know if 757's are classified as heavies. I guarantee you that Delta doesn't add heavy to its call sign in 57's.
28 PhilB : Amazing. After taking the trouble to research and list the internationally accepted list of "heavy" aircraft, explaining how the call is being used le
29 Max Q : 767-200 gross take-off weight, is 300,000 lbs+, it is therefore a heavy.
30 Penguinflies : Some people touched on this-- Heavy aircraft came from the categories of wake turbulence (as defined by the FAA and ATC's "bible") The categories are
31 Post contains images RayChuang : Penguinflies, Wrongo. The 757 is NOT designated as a heavy unless the gross weight of the plane is over 255,000 lbs. The 757-200's flown by AA, CO, DL
32 Critter_592 : After speaking with a controller at JFK Tower many times in the past regarding this issue, the 757 is not classified as a heavy, except for the one ai
33 KonaB777 : The rule of thumb I have noticed basically for modern transports is whatever needs a double bogey (DC10) or triple bogey (777) main landing gear can b
34 Nicolaki : As far as the US goes i don't know, but here in Canada a heavy is an aircraft of or over 300,000 lbs and it has nothing to do with the wake turbulence
35 PhilB : I can't understand why there is such confusion about the B757. To all intents and purposes it is classified as a "heavy" aircraft because of wake turb
36 Aer Lingus : I've heard an ATA 757-200 once been called a "Heavy" So I presume a 757 CAN be one
37 Post contains links Nicolaki : PhilB: 757's are not classified as heavy but they do however use the same separation as a heavy on finaldue to their nasty wake turbulence carateristi
38 Post contains links TWA717_200 : From "Pilot Magazine's A to Z of Aviation Jargon" - Heavy - suffix used in RT callsigns to indicate that the aircraft is a large transport, alerting c
39 JETPILOT : Ray Chuang and anybody else who cares to listen. The 757 is not clasified as a heavy aircraft. It's MGTOW is below 255,000 pounds for all models (not
40 PhilB : Nicolaki, Those are Canadian Air Regulations - they apply in Canada with regard to the CERTIFICATION of the aircraft. Nav Canada class the 757 as a he
41 Critter_592 : PhilB, Why are you so sure that a B757 is considered a heavy? How often do you hear "heavy" used with the callsign of a flight being operated with a 7
42 PhilB : Critter, Do they teach you to read and comprehend English at your school? If you had read read and understood my posts in this thread you wouldn't hav
43 Critter_592 : Yes they teach me to comprehend Grammar at school, if you really need to know. Is their any good reason for you to come out with a post like you just
44 SEVEN_FIFTY7 : I don't know why some people are convinced that 757s CANNOT be classified as "heavy." I, for sure, have been on numerous United 757s whereby the calls
45 COboeing777 : sometimes 757s are considered and sometimes not. From what I've been told it depends on how many passengers and how much baggage/cargo and fuel it is
46 PhilB : If you want to argue semantics with me ...fine, you'll lose. You asked two questions which had been very fully answered earlier in the thread, therefo
47 Post contains links USAFHummer : You're very arrogant, PhilB. Anyway onto the topic... Straight from Boeing's website, the MTOW is 255,000 lbs. The URL for those skeptics is as follow
48 Post contains links TWA717_200 : I'm going to make a statement that I GUARANTEE is a FACT: The reason that the definition of a heavy aircraft is 255,000 lbs. or more is because that i
49 Boeing nut : This has turned out to be an interesting debate. I think in a sence that everyone, to a certain extent, is correct here. The 752's max weight is 255,0
50 Critter_592 : I am looking at the definitions of all the aircraft classes and it states that a heavy aircraft is anyone capable of takeoff weights of more than 255,
51 TAA_Airbus : Critter, If you were so mature yourself, you would of dropped it already and stopped blowing hot air up everyones ass.
52 Max Q : RayChuang Not sure where you get your aircraft limitation information, but the 757 I fly for continental
53 Max Q : Don't think it's really worth as much grief as some people think in this post, but there is one more point to remember, and that is that each particul
54 PhilB : USAFhummer and Critter, Typical teens, read a little, experienced less but know it all and have the nerve to call an experienced adult who has worked
55 Nicolaki : PhilB: You seem to think that aircrafts are classed by the wake turbulence they produce.You couldn't be more wrong, they are classed by their weight w
56 Boeing757fan : The 757 is a heavy, but not all airlines use heavy in the callsign... Also, I have heard a Concorde depart IAD, and, HE USED "HEAVY" in the callsign.
57 PhilB : Nicolaki, You wrote, "ATC base their separation criteria on the classes of aircrafts (heavy, medium, light) and the classes of the aircrafts are deter
58 Nicolaki : For god's sake Phil if you'd pay more attention and scroll up a bit you'd see that i wrote PhilB: 757's are not classified as heavy but they do howeve
59 HeavyJet : This thread has gotten totally out of control and degraded into personal attacks. This is why I don't visit here much anymore. The "heavy" designation
60 PhilB : Nicolaki, from my post immediately following your first post on this thread: "To all intents and purposes it is classified as a "heavy" aircraft becau
61 HeavyJet : >>Question to whomever can answer: If a heavy aircraft is defined to be any aircraft capable of weighing more than 255,000 pounds at takeoff whether o
62 Critter_592 : HeavyJet, but my definition doesn't say 255,000 OR more. It says capable of more than 255,000 pounds.
63 Trickijedi : Well, you guys answered my original question, thanks. Now I'm really interested in this 757 debate. I will be flying to SFO in a 757 and I'm gonna do
64 Boeing747-700 : Would Canada 3000 and Royal's 757-200ER be heavy then I know that they have all coach class and that C3 USE to fly them to Australia? So I think that
65 PanAm747 : Trickijedi-"3)How about I resart this topic when I get more info?" I would just find out for yourself on the trip and just keep it to yourself. Judgin
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